Opinions on Phillip Dorsett to this point

[will426]

So you are really going to blame the poor passes on luck? Everyone knows the Line is not holding their own. There is no way that Luck can even go through his progressions effectively when he is being harassed every other play, C'mon now lets be serious here.

we all know the line sucks..have you noticed majority of his interceptions are near the sideline? oh what a thought why don't I throw it to the defender While under pressure rather than out of bounds..now do we have compromise on his stupid decision making

[will426]

So you are really going to blame the poor passes on luck? Everyone knows the Line is not holding their own. There is no way that Luck can even go through his progressions effectively when he is being harassed every other play, C'mon now lets be serious here.

we all know the line sucks..have you noticed majority of his interceptions are near the sideline? oh what a thought why don't I throw it to the defender While under pressure rather than out of bounds..now do we have compromise on his stupid decision making

[ProblChld32]

damn bruh you must be blind dorsett was the most called name in preseason even when he got time with the 1s and 2s quite frankly he was the only one who could even catch those crappy balls from MH..watch the games over

 

He also was one of the most coughing up the ball as well. he barely even saw time against the 1's he played against mostly the 2's and 3's i suggest you go back and watch the games. As for being the only one catching crappy balls idk what you're even referring to because Duron Carter who isnt even on the active roster Bested Dorsett during the preseason for more receiving yards. So that negates your ill advised statement. Please come with facts bruh. I don't have any hate for Dorsett i actually think he can be really good in DUE time just not right now. But for you guys to continue and sit here and say that an Unproven Dorsett really deserves to play over the Likes of Moncreif and Johnson is absolutely absurd. 

[ProblChld32]

we all know the line sucks..have you noticed majority of his interceptions are near the sideline? oh what a thought why don't I throw it to the defender While under pressure rather than out of bounds..now do we have compromise on his stupid decision making

 

You call it a stupid decision i see a hard fighting football player with his back against the wall trying to do everything he can do within his power to give his team a chance to win a damn game. its 11 guys on offense and everything is literally riding on Luck. So you see it how you see it and i see it how i see it. Id rather a guy willing to take a chance than a Timid QB afraid to take shots.

[ProblChld32]

lol...i really hope this point is made....you CANNOT prorate statistics with the variable of "human" anywhere in the formula lol

 

Lowery had a pick 6 in the first....

 

by the logic of prorating numbers from one quarter across the entire game-

 

how did Lowery NOT end the game with 4 INTs and 28 points?!?!?!

 

LOL

 

lmao my point exactly 

[Yoshinator]

my point exactly 

So you're just starting Andre over Dorsett because he's unproven? By that logic, you'd probably put Amari Cooper below Crabtree, Streater and Holmes if you were the Raiders coach. 

[will426]

He also was one of the most coughing up the ball as well. he barely even saw time against the 1's he played against mostly the 2's and 3's i suggest you go back and watch the games. As for being the only one catching crappy balls idk what you're even referring to because Duron Carter who isnt even on the active roster Bested Dorsett during the preseason for more receiving yards. So that negates your ill advised statement. Please come with facts bruh. I don't have any hate for Dorsett i actually think he can be really good in DUE time just not right now. But for you guys to continue and sit here and say that an Unproven Dorsett really deserves to play over the Likes of Moncreif and Johnson is absolutely absurd.

he fumbled twice and lost 1. We know this lol who doesn't. Carter didn't put anything together till the last game Vs Ppl who are on practice squads..also his first preseason game he played eagles first team def and was eating thier best corners only negative thing about him was a great catch then fumble and a muffed punt.. If you're not a hater then stop pretending to be one everything your trying to prove screams hater

[will426]

You call it a stupid decision i see a hard fighting football player with his back against the wall trying to do everything he can do within his power to give his team a chance to win a damn game. its 11 guys on offense and everything is literally riding on Luck. So you see it how you see it and i see it how i see it. Id rather a guy willing to take a chance than a Timid QB afraid to take shots.

look at the time in which he throws these picks..games aren't even on the line yet he doesn't need to force everything ALL THE TIME so yes that's called stupid decision making..and I'm not even gonna bring up the open Fleener nor Johnson on these plays he forces passes

[crazycolt1]

no this is what I'm trying to say luck throws high dart passes to Andre but he lobs jump balls to Hilton who you know doesn't really win those type battles ..I think he needs to switch that around and throw lasers downfield while Hilton is in stride or LOB a pass giving Andre to jump up and muscle the ball down..they're gonna misuse Andre just like they did nicks I fear

Misuse Hicks? You are going to compare Nicks and AJ? Seriously? Nicks had a couple of good seasons before joining the Colts. And tell me what has he done after he left? Throwing jump balls is not a good thing for any QB. It is a sign of desperation. Not too many receivers have the skill set of megatron.

[Yoshinator]

he fumbled twice and lost 1. We know this lol who doesn't. Carter didn't put anything together till the last game Vs Ppl who are on practice squads..also his first preseason game he played eagles first team def and was eating thier best corners only negative thing about him was a great catch then fumble and a muffed punt.. If you're not a hater then stop pretending to be one everything your trying to prove screams hater

He'd rather hurt the team by trying to prove a point that Dorsett isn't worthy of playing time because he's a rookie (despite the fact that he's a first rounder and has done well in limited time) and keep Andre because of name value and teach Dorsett a lesson. He's probably one of those old school guys that wants to keep the Veterans in until either the rookie does so well he's forced to be the starter or until it destroys the team. He probably didn't want Anderson or Parry starting either and look at how that turned out.

[will426]

Misuse Hicks? You are going to compare Nicks and AJ? Seriously? Nicks had a couple of good seasons before joining the Colts. And tell me what has he done after he left? Throwing jump balls is not a good thing for any QB. It is a sign of desperation. Not too many receivers have the skill set of megatron.

lol chill my mistake I was just comparing how they pinpoint the ball in the air and outjump defenders Andre and nicks were known for these things yet we don't use them that way not even back shoulder fades on the sideline

[ProblChld32]

So you're just starting Andre over Dorsett because he's unproven? By that logic, you'd probably put Amari Cooper below Crabtree, Streater and Holmes if you were the Raiders coach. 

 

Dude wth are you even talking about right now? Andre Johnson doesnt even start lol he's designated as a #3 and #2 receiver. Why would the raiders spend a high draft pick on talent such as Cooper only to have him playing situational ball? once again you arent using Logic here lol, We arent discussing an Amari Cooper we are talking about Phillip Dorsett a late first early second round receiver. SMH im losing brain cells going back and forth with you man lol im done 

[ED29_1659yards]

Phillip Dorsett, after yesterday's game, secured the #3 WR spot on the Colts depth chart, per the offensive scheme that Pep is using.While AJ is a great option, i see him as the designated 3rd down WR/RB, in siuations where we need a tough catch over the middle, or on the sideline to move the chains. Pep should consider a Red Zone package that includes big targets like A.Johnson, D.Moncrief, D.Carter, C.Fleener, D.Allen. Commentators around the league, have noticed how much Donte has elevated his game, because he's scored a TD in all 3 games this season. We shouldn't be worried in the least about TY not having a TD because teams are expecting TY on anything deep, so let them chase him for the first half, and come back to him in the second, unless he just rips the top off the defense.

[Yoshinator]

Dude wth are you even talking about right now? Andre Johnson doesnt even start lol he's designated as a #3 and #2 receiver. Why would the raiders spend a high draft pick on talent such as Cooper only to have him playing situational ball? once again you arent using Logic here lol, We arent discussing an Amari Cooper we are talking about Phillip Dorsett a late first early second round receiver. SMH im losing brain cells going back and forth with you man lol im done 

So a early 1st is a high draft pick but a late 1st isn't, LOL. I think you were born without brain cells in the 1st place. Tired of talking to you as well.

[Yoshinator]

Phillip Dorsett, after yesterday's game, secured the #3 WR spot on the Colts depth chart, per the offensive scheme that Pep is using.While AJ is a great option, i see him as the designated 3rd down WR/RB, in siuations where we need a tough catch over the middle, or on the sideline to move the chains. Pep should consider a Red Zone package that includes big targets like A.Johnson, D.Moncrief, D.Carter, C.Fleener, D.Allen. Commentators around the league, have noticed how much Donte has elevated his game, because he's scored a TD in all 3 games this season. We shouldn't be worried in the least about TY not having a TD because teams are expecting TY on anything deep, so let them chase him for the first half, and come back to him in the second, unless he just rips the top off the defense.

Yeah, I'm not worried about TY not getting a TD. He's against no1 CB's and we've only gotten 5 TDs so far this season. Moncrief getting 3 does a lot more for me as his season is showing we have a solid no2 and a possible second no1 receiver down the road.

[ProblChld32]

He'd rather hurt the team by trying to prove a point that Dorsett isn't worthy of playing time because he's a rookie (despite the fact that he's a first rounder and has done well in limited time) and keep Andre because of name value and teach Dorsett a lesson. He's probably one of those old school guys that wants to keep the Veterans in until either the rookie does so well he's forced to be the starter or until it destroys the team. He probably didn't want Anderson or Parry starting either and look at how that turned out.

 

WHAT IS WELL? Bro he hasnt even eclipsed a 50 yard game how the hell can you say he has done well? Wow man lol and Anderson is only starting by default due to the A.Jones injury am i upset about that? No because i absolutely loved when we drafted. him. you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever in your life played the game of football at a high level? or are you one of those guys that plays madden all day long and think that makes him a Football Guru. I think its the latter!

[Yoshinator]

WHAT IS WELL? Bro he hasnt even eclipsed a 50 yard game how the hell can you say he has done well? Wow man lol and Anderson is only starting by default due to the A.Jones injury am i upset about that? No because i absolutely loved when we drafted. him. you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever in your life played the game of football at a high level? or are you one of those guys that plays madden all day long and think that makes him a Football Guru. I think its the latter!

You only read the words you want to read obviously. I said well in Limited Time. He hasn't eclipsed 50 yds in a game because he has only played a quarter in each one. You get that? He has still done way more than your hero Andre Johnson has done in 3 full games. 5 catches 113 yds and a td in 3 quarters. NOT 3 games, 3 quarters. If you don't get it now, you are just trolling which I think you are.

[will426]

He'd rather hurt the team by trying to prove a point that Dorsett isn't worthy of playing time because he's a rookie (despite the fact that he's a first rounder and has done well in limited time) and keep Andre because of name value and teach Dorsett a lesson. He's probably one of those old school guys that wants to keep the Veterans in until either the rookie does so well he's forced to be the starter or until it destroys the team. He probably didn't want Anderson or Parry starting either and look at how that turned out.

exactly if dorsett got moncrief Hilton playing time we'd be scoring cuz it's too much speed and route running ability on the field for a def

[chrisfarley]

he's a liability at route running.  one cost us dearly and we have to ease him in.  he will be good once he "gets it".

[ProblChld32]

You only read the words you want to read obviously. I said well in Limited Time. He hasn't eclipsed 50 yds in a game because he has only played a quarter in each one. You get that? He has still done way more than your hero Andre Johnson has done in 3 full games. 5 catches 113 yds and a td in 3 quarters. NOT 3 games, 3 quarters. If you don't get it now, you are just trolling which I think you are.

 

Andre Johnson is far from a Hero to me buddy, On paper yes Dorsett has done more than AJ has but lets not forget the 2 big plays Johnson had that were called back due to Holding penalties. But let me guess you probably didn't count for those did you? Sounds to me you are the only Troll here with ill advised Logic and NO facts.

[Yoshinator]

exactly if dorsett got moncrief Hilton playing time we'd be scoring cuz it's too much speed and route running ability on the field for a def

Yep, and it would create mismatches all over the field. You'd have to pick your poison. As of now, defenses just put their worst corner on Andre and Hilton and Moncrief are covered by the #1 and #2 CBs which make it difficult for Luck.

[ProblChld32]

exactly if dorsett got moncrief Hilton playing time we'd be scoring cuz it's too much speed and route running ability on the field for a def

 

Yea after this comment im more than positive all you guys do is sit and play Madden all day long and think that speed will win you games. Here's a rude awakening for you my guy IT DOESNT. Speed helps but its not a game winner. Being technically sound wins you games. Why do you think guys like Welker and Edelman are as good as they are? because they are smart and precision route runners, they know how to get open. Speed without knowing how to get in and out of breaks limits you to only one route and that's the 9 route. Or as you madden players know it as a streak or fade. Speed isnt the end all Genius. 

[Yoshinator]

Andre Johnson is far from a Hero to me buddy, On paper yes Dorsett has done more than AJ has but lets not forget the 2 big plays Johnson had that were called back due to Holding penalties. But let me guess you probably didn't count for those did you? Sounds to me you are the only Troll here with ill advised Logic and NO facts.

Read post #54, I gave him credit for that in a response. You know exactly how good Dorsett has been in LImited time and how bad Andre has been. You just want to keep Andre because of name value and past performance. That's not right. He's hurting the team. I don't want him on the team when he is this bad, I want to win. Part of it is the O-Line, but Dorsett could still help. This is what it comes down to for me and if you don't understand that, this conversation is over.

[CoachSmok3]

Dude wth are you even talking about right now? Andre Johnson doesnt even start lol he's designated as a #3 and #2 receiver. Why would the raiders spend a high draft pick on talent such as Cooper only to have him playing situational ball? once again you arent using Logic here lol, We arent discussing an Amari Cooper we are talking about Phillip Dorsett a late first early second round receiver. SMH im losing brain cells going back and forth with you man lol im done 

 

lol that dude is never going to consed that he does understand your point... thats why when he quoted your reply to my comment- he completely STOPPED talking that prorated theory that Dorsett would be our leading WR right now (lol)...

 

hes searching for more hits and to get people "excited" lol. its ok....

[SteelCityColt]

You only read the words you want to read obviously. I said well in Limited Time. He hasn't eclipsed 50 yds in a game because he has only played a quarter in each one. You get that? He has still done way more than your hero Andre Johnson has done in 3 full games. 5 catches 113 yds and a td in 3 quarters. NOT 3 games, 3 quarters. If you don't get it now, you are just trolling which I think you are.

 

I don't think you can raising valid points trolling.

 

Let's start from the beginning:

 

I think we all agree we want to see more Dorsett.

Don't compare Dorsett to Cooper, vastly different roster situation, vastly different level of talent (currently).

Dorsett is probably getting limited snaps because like a lot of young receivers he's not a sharp route runner. TY wasn't when he came into the league and look at how he got eased in. He saw the the field a whopping 57.6% of the time in the 2012. To give you some context Donnie Avery saw 87.7% of snaps. 

Regardless of production AJ offers a different type of skill set so there will be situations where putting him in will be more beneficial than a smaller bodied receiver. If the lack of production carries on, you stop looking for these situations and adapt the game plan. 

 

No one at any point throughout this has actually really disagreed with you, they've just pointed out the arguments you are making are flawed. You can't go around tossing around accusations of troll or being picked on if you can't substantiate your points. That's not how discourse works. This is the 2nd topic you've started and done this in. You need to chill out a bit. 

[Yoshinator]

lol that dude is never going to consed that he does understand your point... thats why when he quoted your reply to my comment- he completely STOPPED talking that prorated theory that Dorsett would be our leading WR right now (lol)...

 

hes searching for more hits and to get people "excited" lol. its ok....

It may be prorated to an extent, but you can never guarantee anything 100%. Moncrief has 200 yards, TY has 227, both in 12 quarters of play. Dorsett has 113 in 3. Add 9 quarters and have him steal a couple of Moncrief's and Hilton's yards in those quarters, and probably dictates that he will almost certainly have more than 227 yards. It probably won't even be that much for Hilton either because he'd get less yards due to Dorsett unless Luck got more yards overall. I go by probability and stats, it seems a lot of other people on here go by possibility.

[Yoshinator]

I don't think you can raising valid points trolling.

 

Let's start from the beginning:

 

I think we all agree we want to see more Dorsett.

Don't compare Dorsett to Cooper, vastly different roster situation, vastly different level of talent (currently).

Dorsett is probably getting limited snaps because like a lot of young receivers he's not a sharp route runner. TY wasn't when he came into the league and look at how he got eased in. He saw the the field a whopping 57.6% of the time in the 2012. To give you some context Donnie Avery saw 87.7% of snaps. 

Regardless of production AJ offers a different type of skill set so there will be situations where putting him in will be more beneficial than a smaller bodied receiver. If the lack of production carries on, you stop looking for these situations and adapt the game plan. 

 

No one at any point throughout this has actually really disagreed with you, they've just pointed out the arguments you are making are flawed. You can't go around tossing around accusations of troll or being picked on if you can't substantiate your points. That's not how discourse works. This is the 2nd topic you've started and done this in. You need to chill out a bit. 

All right I'll calm down a bit. I just want what's best for the team and I'm a little annoyed by how this coaching staff works with rookies in general. I apologize to probchild for acting out. I'm a control freak and it's hard not to control something I want to change. Sorry for acting out.

[CoachSmok3]

He's hurting the team. I don't want him on the team when he is this bad, I want to win. Part of it is the O-Line, but Dorsett could still help. 

 

 

you could make some valid points if the presentation was cleaned up a bit....but dude....the above statement, you said:

 

1) Andre Johnson is hurting the team

2) You want to win

3) "Part" is the Oline

4) Dorsett can help

 

1) so Johnson holds as much weight or more in the offensive downfalls of weeks 1 and 2?

2) ok...

3) please refer back to number 1's question

4) Dorsett could help with what?

 

please think about number 4 thoroughly....

 

Dorsett can off set the blitz? Dorsett can big body in the red zone or possession scenarios? Dorsett can help in the return game? lol

 

I def do NOT hate the drafting of Dorsett in the 1st...he def DOES have the physical gifts to be a game breaker in this offense. Hilton, Moncrief, Dorsett sounds good for sure!!

 

But....

 

lets say you start Dorsett at WR3...for the sake of argument.... do you really believe he could consistently beat teams top 2/3 CBs for the entire 60minutes, 13 more times this year?

 

*If you can inquire why so many are supporting Johnson, and then state they only support him due to his name...why may i ask are you so dead set that Dorsett is the Colts messiah? 

[ColtsLegacy]

As a norm most receivers take on an average of three years to learn the position. Getting used to playing with the speed and talent of the NFL takes time. I think he is coming along great.

This cliche is no longer true, especially of highly drafted WRs.

[Yoshinator]

you could make some valid points if the presentation was cleaned up a bit....but dude....the above statement, you said:

 

1) Andre Johnson is hurting the team

2) You want to win

3) "Part" is the Oline

4) Dorsett can help

 

1) so Johnson holds as much weight or more in the offensive downfalls of weeks 1 and 2?

2) ok...

3) please refer back to number 1's question

4) Dorsett could help with what?

 

please think about number 4 thoroughly....

 

Dorsett can off set the blitz? Dorsett can big body in the red zone or possession scenarios? Dorsett can help in the return game? lol

 

I def do NOT hate the drafting of Dorsett in the 1st...he def DOES have the physical gifts to be a game breaker in this offense. Hilton, Moncrief, Dorsett sounds good for sure!!

 

But....

 

lets say you start Dorsett at WR3...for the sake of argument.... do you really believe he could consistently beat teams top 2/3 CBs for the entire 60minutes, 13 more times this year?

 

*If you can inquire why so many are supporting Johnson, and then state they only support him due to his name...why may i ask are you so dead set that Dorsett is the Colts messiah? 

All I can say with limited information is Dorsett can create tons of mismatches with his speed. You have to choose who to put your #3 CB on out of Dorsett, Moncrief and Dorsett. I don't believe Andre can strike fear into a defense like Dorsett. If you cover Dorsett with the #2, Moncrief can destroy the #3. Likewise with Dorsett as the #3. He can do reverses and wildcat stuff as well with his speed. I also like the fact that he can turn a 5 yd catch into a 15 or 20 catch. Start him off easy with simple screen passes so his route running is fine and ease him into the deep pass. He can be a threat with a short or long pass. He'll only get better as he learns.

[SteelCityColt]

This cliche is no longer true, especially of highly drafted WRs.

 

Agree strongly, but there is still a lack of route running ability (on the whole) coming out of college. That's why the oo and ahh about a Cooper, as well as being the physical beast he was meant to be able run the full tree pretty sweetly.

[bababooey]

This cliche is no longer true, especially of highly drafted WRs.

 

Look at Beckham, Evans, Landry, Cooks, Benjamin, Watkins, Matthews, and Moncrief all drafted last year. I can't wait to see that 30 for 30 in 20 years.

[Yoshinator]

Look at Beckham, Evans, Landry, Cooks, Benjamin, Watkins, Matthews, and Moncrief all drafted last year. I can't wait to see that 30 for 30 in 20 years.

Yep, even Martavius Bryant was good (got suspended but....). This is an incredible WR class and I'm glad we got our guy. If Moncrief went in 2015 (was possible, considering his age), no way we get him in the 3rd.

[ColtsLegacy]

Agree strongly, but there is still a lack of route running ability (on the whole) coming out of college. That's why the oo and ahh about a Cooper, as well as being the physical beast he was meant to be able run the full tree pretty sweetly.

Cooper is other worldly, the fact that anyone had Kevin White rated ahead of him is a joke, IMO, and I'm not saying that in hindsight.

[SteelCityColt]

Cooper is other worldly, the fact that anyone had Kevin White rated ahead of him is a joke, IMO, and I'm not saying that in hindsight.

 

I honestly think some people just run out of things to say pre-draft so throw it out there to mix it up a little. No one is going to go back and heckle them for it so why not?

 

Best yes I agree, as good as last year's WRs have been I think Cooper is the best prospect so far (including OBJ). Although they love to keep making me look a fool the Raiders might almost be a legit football team now. Not a good one but at least good enough to not be sued under the Trade Descriptions Act (1968).  

[CoachSmok3]

All I can say with limited information is Dorsett can create tons of mismatches with his speed. You have to choose who to put your #3 CB on out of Dorsett, Moncrief and Dorsett. I don't believe Andre can strike fear into a defense like Dorsett. If you cover Dorsett with the #2, Moncrief can destroy the #3. Likewise with Dorsett as the #3. He can do reverses and wildcat stuff as well with his speed. I also like the fact that he can turn a 5 yd catch into a 15 or 20 catch. Start him off easy with simple screen passes so his route running is fine and ease him into the deep pass. He can be a threat with a short or long pass. He'll only get better as he learns.

 

 

for sure man thank you. I personally do not feel that it is going to do much for us in regards to production- increasing Dorsett and decreasing Johnson at this point in the season (Dorsetts career)...

 

but Id agree with all the points you make about the possibilities that Dorsett can bring this offense. a great deal of speed and "trick" play type abilities. how are all the play makers going to be covered by the opposing D? all valid points.

 

Who should get more snaps? Seeing as I am not paid by Irsay, all i have to say is- Not my circus, not my monkeys

[jet1968]

My opinion is better then the first weeks opinion

[RockThatBlue]

I think its pretty obvious he needs to get more playing time than AJ.

[presto123]

 He will be our number one or two receiver down the road. Book it. Better than Moncrief.

[RockThatBlue]

I could care less about separation when it comes to AJ. Throw a good ball to where only AJ can reach it and see what he can do with it. It either goes incomplete, or johnson gets it and can use his size to his advantage to break away from the defender after the catch.

Problem is, trust Luck to make good LEADING throws to his receivers rather than high and/or behind. Has always been my knock o luck from day one.

If AJ isn't getting separation then Luck has a good reason to not throw him the ball.