What's behind Lucks decision making?

[will426]

What's amazing is that the Pats are supposedly starting two rookies on the offensive line this year...

Brady and manning MAKE thier lines look good with play recognition Brady has all the time in the world because ppl stop and drop everyone in coverage..and when they blitz EACH one of his receivers seem to have a hot route in case of the blitz..in which in our case no1 has options to hot route were so basic

[HungarianColtsFan]

Luck's decision making magically improved to almost perfect in 4th. Suddenly there were some screen passes, he connected with TEs... He called big play after big play. His passer rating was like 26 during first 3 quarters and soared up 152 in 4th, his pass accuracy was 7/17 and 11/13 respectively. 

 

 I'm still wondering why?

[peytonmanning18]

Its the line

The line doesn't throw interceptions, that would be the turnover machine himself

[SteelCityColt]

Read #1, crap I am hit, I need to roll out, read #2, crap I am hit again, I need to move some more, read #3, hell with it, I am just going to punt it.

 

I have no valid contribution... I'm sorry 

[Narcosys]

Its the line

Luck throwing to TY who's double covered in the endzone; while having frank gore wide open with nothing but daylight ahead of him, when you only need 2 yards, is not the O line. Luck just tried to force things way too much and for no reason.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

The line doesn't throw interceptions, that would be the turnover machine himself

Not as much as Peyton was through the same number of career games.

[Gavin]

Its called Brett Favre Syndrome. He has it full on. His want to make a big play or keep a play alive gets the better of him often. As I said also he will also give a defense just about once or twice a game to pick him off just like Favre, Its just a matter if the defender makes the play. That's just who he is. Could that change? Maybe but its not likely. We aren't looking at a Peyton clone. We are looking much closer to a Favre clone, The great and the bad. He is going to continue to make big time plays and with that will come bonehead plays.

 

With all that said even Castonzo had a bad game vs the Titans best I can tell without all 22 yet, That's not the normal though so nothing to get up in arms about. At least Louis is sitting

[SteelCityColt]

Luck throwing to TY who's double covered in the endzone; while having frank gore wide open with nothing but daylight ahead of him, when you only need 2 yards, is not the O line. Luck just tried to force things way too much and for no reason.

 

This... I'm not sure whether it's a complete lack of vision (But surely a few film sessions would point this out to him?!) or whether he feels compelled to always have to make a big play. 

 

8 (?) turnovers in 3 games... you aren't going to win like that. Throw it away man and live to fight another day. 

[#12.]

Compared to practically every other team I watch, this team, through a combination of play calling/style of play and a bad O-line makes things as difficult on Luck as they possibly can. There are no drive starting, easy plays. No short/intermediate passing game. Evety play looks excruciatingly difficult, even the successful ones. Yesterday was first time Luck looked visiably rattled to me. Even after the TD to Dorsett, he had a holy crap look on his face. You simply do not have the O-line to run the type of offense Pep has tried to run here - power running/deep ball. They need to move to a perimeter running, quick passing style. Over the past three years, whenever they have come closest to that style is when they have looked their best.

[lollygagger8]

So while Luck isn't hitting the checkdowns, isn't it Pep or Clyde Christensen or whoever's job to point this out to him? 

[BleedBlu8792]

So while Luck isn't hitting the checkdowns, isn't it Pep or Clyde Christensen or whoever's job to point this out to him?

Pretty sure after 4 years he's got his big boy pants on... Mariotta had no problem doing it yesterday.

[krunk]

Who says he hasn't been told that?

[Gavin]

So while Luck isn't hitting the checkdowns, isn't it Pep or Clyde Christensen or whoever's job to point this out to him? 

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink it

[SteelCityColt]

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink it

 

And if you shove their head into the trough your might drown them.....

 

Sorry I'm not good with metaphors  

[The Fish]

He's pressing to make plays happen. That second pick should tell you everything you need to know about his game right now.

[Narcosys]

This... I'm not sure whether it's a complete lack of vision (But surely a few film sessions would point this out to him?!) or whether he feels compelled to always have to make a big play.

8 (?) turnovers in 3 games... you aren't going to win like that. Throw it away man and live to fight another day.

He seems to be adverse to throwing it away.

[lollygagger8]

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink it

Agreed

[ColtsFan1976]

I think Luck tries too much sometimes.  You see it when there is a holding penalty and now the it is 1st and 20.  I think Luck needs to learn it is alright to throw the ball away instead of forcing the throw and getting picked off.  Let's not forget the visual CBS placed on the screen.  Through 50 games Manning at 89 picks and Luck has 50 picks.  Not all bad.

[Jackie Daytona]

Luck is the one seeing it first hand. He has to see the blitz coming, we all do, yet he's not taking the check down, nor does he seem to be able to get in and out of the right play calls. I mean seriously, he's seeing 6 guys coming at him and he's still looking way down field. Screen? Hot route? Good lord, get rid of the damn football....

I agree, insomuch as the plays have a safety valve.....50% of them, all routes were deep

[peytonmanning18]

Not as much as Peyton was through the same number of career games.

Not sure what Peyton has to do with this discussion. The concern is that Andrew Luck has regressed and is still make the same boneheaded decisions he made as a rookie.

[Smash Mouth]

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink it

Peyton had this issue until Dungy showed up and said "enough".

[ColtsFan1976]

Not sure what Peyton has to do with this discussion. The concern is that Andrew Luck has regressed and is still make the same boneheaded decisions he made as a rookie.

 

What is being said is through the first 50 games as a Colt between Manning and Luck, Manning had 89 interceptions and Luck has 50 interceptions. 

[lollygagger8]

Pretty sure after 4 years he's got his big boy pants on... Mariotta had no problem doing it yesterday.

 

Mariota is doing well because of Whisenhunt. 

 

Luck did well with Bruce Arians. 

 

What I'm getting at, is we need a better OC/ QB coach to help him out. 

[Flash7]

Luck is in a tough position....

 

The defense calls for a blitz. Luck sees the blitz coming and audibles to adjust the offensive play call. The receivers run "hot routes" but the defense knows that a blitz has been called and that Luck has to get rid of the ball quickly. So the defenders sit on the short routes with safety help over the top. This is exactly what happened on the interception to T.Y.

 

So when Luck opts to go deep against the blitz, it's because he knows that the defenders are sitting on the shorter routes. It's a really tough position to be in. He's putting his body on the line for a chance at a big play.

 

I think there are better ways to beat the blitz, obviously. But I wanted to point out Luck's dilemma and decision making.

[will426]

Luck is in a tough position....

The defense calls for a blitz. Luck sees the blitz coming and audibles to adjust the offensive play call. The receivers run "hot routes" but the defense knows that a blitz has been called and that Luck has to get rid of the ball quickly. So the defenders sit on the short routes with safety help over the top. This is exactly what happened on the interception to T.Y.

So when Luck opts to go deep against the blitz, it's because he knows that the defenders are sitting on the shorter routes. It's a really tough position to be in. He's putting his body on the line for a chance at a big play.

I think there are better ways to beat the blitz, obviously. But I wanted to point out Luck's dilemma and decision making.

the thing is I don't think All of our receivers have hot routes example pats..they have everyone run a hot route if he sees Blitz even sends the Rb out wide..we really need to try the things people use on us it's ridiculous how were being taught how to play in our blowout losses yet we don't imitate lol

[Flash7]

the thing is I don't think All of our receivers have hot routes example pats..they have everyone run a hot route if he sees Blitz even sends the Rb out wide..we really need to try the things people use on us it's ridiculous how were being taught how to play in our blowout losses yet we don't imitate lol

Oh, I completely agree. We have a very curious offensive system. Other teams have figured out how to limit the Colts with a blitz-heavy approach and the Colts haven't figured out how to make them pay.

 

There is so much that can be done to make a blitzing defense pay. For the life of me, I don't know why we don't do more of those things (screens, draws, roll-outs, quick hitting plays, etc...). If we as fans can see this, I don't know why Pep and Luck can't.

[Superman]

Luck is in a tough position....

 

The defense calls for a blitz. Luck sees the blitz coming and audibles to adjust the offensive play call. The receivers run "hot routes" but the defense knows that a blitz has been called and that Luck has to get rid of the ball quickly. So the defenders sit on the short routes with safety help over the top. This is exactly what happened on the interception to T.Y.

 

So when Luck opts to go deep against the blitz, it's because he knows that the defenders are sitting on the shorter routes. It's a really tough position to be in. He's putting his body on the line for a chance at a big play.

 

I think there are better ways to beat the blitz, obviously. But I wanted to point out Luck's dilemma and decision making.

 

On the pick to Hilton, the defender was in perfect position, the route was subpar, and Luck never should have made the throw. They showed blitz, but only sent four, and the protection was fine. Luck only looked at Hilton, never looked for another receiver (I don't think anyone else was open at that point), and threw a pass that Perrish Cox saw coming from a mile away.

 

He made a bad decision with the football, all on his own. We can lay the blame on him.

 

However, the play was poorly conceived. No hot routes, no one across the middle where they looked like they were blitzing from, etc. Hilton's man was in off coverage, and Hilton could/should have broken his route off a lot sooner if they thought it was a blitz (again, not a good route). And this combination of factors is present often so far this season.

 

The rule to beating the blitz is to send the hot receiver to the area the blitzing defender is vacating. We keep sending our receivers vertical against blitzes. I've seen a dozen times where we get blitzed and there are open areas in the middle of the field, but no receivers in those areas. It makes no sense.

[cbear]

It happened a handful of times today. There was one play where Luck went deep downfield, incomplete out of the end zone. Well Gore came out of the backfield and was wide open, with two potential blockers in front of him. There were no rushers near him, he just never came to the check down. It's happened several times in each game so far.

 

I don't get why we can't just say "Luck isn't playing well" without having to shift the blame to someone else. There's plenty of blame to go around; the OL isn't playing well, etc. But a big part of it is Luck just being off, all on his own. 

 

Are you talking about the one to TY down the left sideline?  Gore could have done some real damage there.  The "problem" was that Luck had all the time in the world on that play, so you know he's going for the home run ball there, especially on 2-1.

[will426]

Oh, I completely agree. We have a very curious offensive system. Other teams have figured out how to limit the Colts with a blitz-heavy approach and the Colts haven't figured out how to make them pay.

There is so much that can be done to make a blitzing defense pay. For the life of me, I don't know why we don't do more of those things (screens, draws, roll-outs, quick hitting plays, etc...). If we as fans can see this, I don't know why Pep and Luck can't.

peps inability of to adapt

[Superman]

Oh, I completely agree. We have a very curious offensive system. Other teams have figured out how to limit the Colts with a blitz-heavy approach and the Colts haven't figured out how to make them pay.

 

There is so much that can be done to make a blitzing defense pay. For the life of me, I don't know why we don't do more of those things (screens, draws, roll-outs, quick hitting plays, etc...). If we as fans can see this, I don't know why Pep and Luck can't.

 

We don't know how to run screens. That's a big problem, but at this point, I don't know if they're ever going to fix it. For instance, why do we never cut the edge defender on the play side? How many screens have to get knocked down before we start cutting the edge? On one screen, the Titans read the play like a book, and Luck had to put it in the dirt.

 

What they did that I liked is started running Spider 2 Y Banana, and other variants. The key being that the QB had multiple reads at different levels of the field (similar to the old Indy concepts, including "Levels"), including a dump off to the flat that's pretty much always open. The play action slows down the blitz, and the concept makes it easy for the QB to read the field. We ran that pretty well, and Doyle did a good job getting yards after catch. I'd rather see that than a poorly run screen.

[colts8718]

He misses Trent Richardsons blocking

[Gavin]

On the pick to Hilton, the defender was in perfect position, the route was subpar, and Luck never should have made the throw. They showed blitz, but only sent four, and the protection was fine. Luck only looked at Hilton, never looked for another receiver (I don't think anyone else was open at that point), and threw a pass that Perrish Cox saw coming from a mile away.

 

He made a bad decision with the football, all on his own. We can lay the blame on him.

 

However, the play was poorly conceived. No hot routes, no one across the middle where they looked like they were blitzing from, etc. Hilton's man was in off coverage, and Hilton could/should have broken his route off a lot sooner if they thought it was a blitz (again, not a good route). And this combination of factors is present often so far this season.

 

The rule to beating the blitz is to send the hot receiver to the area the blitzing defender is vacating. We keep sending our receivers vertical against blitzes. I've seen a dozen times where we get blitzed and there are open areas in the middle of the field, but no receivers in those areas. It makes no sense.

Only other player that I thought was open was Gore but he had not broke into his route before Luck threw to Hilton

[Gavin]

We don't know how to run screens. That's a big problem, but at this point, I don't know if they're ever going to fix it. For instance, why do we never cut the edge defender on the play side? How many screens have to get knocked down before we start cutting the edge? On one screen, the Titans read the play like a book, and Luck had to put it in the dirt.

 

What they did that I liked is started running Spider 2 Y Banana, and other variants. The key being that the QB had multiple reads at different levels of the field (similar to the old Indy concepts, including "Levels"), including a dump off to the flat that's pretty much always open. The play action slows down the blitz, and the concept makes it easy for the QB to read the field. We ran that pretty well, and Doyle did a good job getting yards after catch. I'd rather see that than a poorly run screen.

We need to run the Levels concepts much more

[Superman]

Are you talking about the one to TY down the left sideline?  Gore could have done some real damage there.  The "problem" was that Luck had all the time in the world on that play, so you know he's going for the home run ball there, especially on 2-1.

 

Yup, 8:22 left in the 4th quarter. 

 

But Luck made a quick decision. It's not like he sat in the pocket and waited for a route to develop; it was just a go route, and he completely overthrew Hilton. The DB wasn't even in press, so I'm not sure why Luck made up his mind so quickly to go to that throw. Meanwhile, there's no pressure on Luck, and there isn't a defender within 10 yards of Gore as he runs to the sideline. The other defenders on his side are occupied with the other receivers. Gore easily gets a first down, and probably has a shot to rumble into the end zone. 

 

They scored a TD five plays later on 3rd and 20 to Dorsett, but these are the plays that can be made to stay ahead of the chains and take some pressure off of the offense. It's just progression based passing, which Luck is very good at. But he's missing a lot of these opportunities right now.

[cbear]

Yup, 8:22 left in the 4th quarter. 

 

But Luck made a quick decision. 

 

He did.  I think he saw single coverage and made up his mine when the ball was snapped that he was going for TY.  I think that's where that gunslinger mentality comes in.  If I get the right coverage I'm going for the big play, period.  The game manager might have taken the safe pass to Gore, or at least glanced at the underneath routes.  I'm not sure Luck can mature into a little bit of both.

[cbear]

Only other player that I thought was open was Gore but he had not broke into his route before Luck threw to Hilton

 

Coby was open as well.  Honestly, I don't think Andrew even looked at Gore and he would have had ample time.  If he did, then I question his decision making even more not to take the almost guaranteed 10-15 yards in that situation.

[Superman]

He did.  I think he saw single coverage and made up his mine when the ball was snapped that he was going for TY.  I think that's where that gunslinger mentality comes in.  If I get the right coverage I'm going for the big play, period.  The game manager might have taken the safe pass to Gore, or at least glanced at the underneath routes.  I'm not sure Luck can mature into a little bit of both.

 

I don't think having a gunslinger mentality has to undermine progression based passing. 

[Gavin]

Coby was open as well.  Honestly, I don't think Andrew even looked at Gore and he would have had ample time.  If he did, then I question his decision making even more not to take the almost guaranteed 10-15 yards in that situation.

Wait, Are you talking about the 1st int intended for Hilton at 9:51 of 3rd quarter or 2nd at 7:01 3rd quarter? The first int Coby stayed into block(Or perhaps just got swallowed up looks more like it) which is the one Luck had made the decision to throw to Hilton prior to Gore going into his route. The 2nd int Fleener ran out into the flat but I thought was pretty well covered.

[Restored]

Oh, I completely agree. We have a very curious offensive system. Other teams have figured out how to limit the Colts with a blitz-heavy approach and the Colts haven't figured out how to make them pay.

 

There is so much that can be done to make a blitzing defense pay. For the life of me, I don't know why we don't do more of those things (screens, draws, roll-outs, quick hitting plays, etc...). If we as fans can see this, I don't know why Pep and Luck can't.

 

 

Yeah it wasn't really until the 4th quarter that the offense seemed to do the things it needs to do to be successful:

 

-No huddle offense: The offense needs to dictate the pace more. Luck has thrived nearly his entire career when he has had to do this.

 

-Quicker passes: I think Pep Hamilton and co. really believed the offensive line would be good enough to allow for long, developing passes down field. We see that it still isn't the case so the offense will need to adjust again to compensate.

[cbear]

I don't think having a gunslinger mentality has to undermine progression based passing. 

 

No it doesn't, but it does take self discipline.