Our O-Line moving foward

[GoColts8818]

I get the frustration for sure.  Whatever the Colts are doing it's clearly not working.  With that said I wouldn't give up on the season yet.  For starters it's a long time until next season if you do.  Also they do play in the AFC South where they are a game out of first place and chasing the Titans and Jags who were two of the three worst teams in the league last year and who they play the next two weeks.  Getting a home playoff game in the playoffs is huge and we will just have to see what happens if that happens. 

 

I think part of the Colts problem on offense is that they were just too conservative in the pre-season.  When the starters were in there they were just calling a lot of run plays most of the pre-season and I don't think the starters got the reps they needed to be in a groove right now.  I also think the Colts have too much talent to be this bad for the rest of the season.  I think sooner or later the offense is going to come around. 

 

As for the o-line it's still clearly a problem.  I don't know what to say.  I don't think there are guys to go get to make it a quick fix.  I think you just have to hope these guys come together and they finally address it in a major way this off-season.  Even if they do it will probably be with draft picks though.  Which probably means it's going to take a little bit of time for those picks to develop. 

 

I get why everyone is upset right now though and I am not going to sit here and even suggest people shouldn't be.  It's clearly been a very frustrating start to the season. 

 

I will say I think the Colts need to just address the Pagano situation and deal with it one way or another as I do think it's becoming a distraction for this team and it's just something they don't need right now.  I don't really care what they do, either fire him or extend him and move on. 

[RockThatBlue]

Our Oline doesn't move forward

Lol I was thinking the same. Thread title should be "Our o-line moving backward"

[ricker182]

We need to trade for an elite guard ASAP

[GoColts8818]

We need to trade for an elite guard ASAP

I don't think teams are lining up to trade away their elite guards.

[Colts_Fan12]

I get the frustration for sure. Whatever the Colts are doing it's clearly not working. With that said I wouldn't give up on the season yet. For starters it's a long time until next season if you do. Also they do play in the AFC South where they are a game out of first place and chasing the Titans and Jags who were two of the three worst teams in the league last year and who they play the next two weeks. Getting a home playoff game in the playoffs is huge and we will just have to see what happens if that happens.

I think part of the Colts problem on offense is that they were just too conservative in the pre-season. When the starters were in there they were just calling a lot of run plays most of the pre-season and I don't think the starters got the reps they needed to be in a groove right now. I also think the Colts have too much talent to be this bad for the rest of the season. I think sooner or later the offense is going to come around.

As for the o-line it's still clearly a problem. I don't know what to say. I don't think there are guys to go get to make it a quick fix. I think you just have to hope these guys come together and they finally address it in a major way this off-season. Even if they do it will probably be with draft picks though. Which probably means it's going to take a little bit of time for those picks to develop.

I get why everyone is upset right now though and I am not going to sit here and even suggest people shouldn't be. It's clearly been a very frustrating start to the season.

I will say I think the Colts need to just address the Pagano situation and deal with it one way or another as I do think it's becoming a distraction for this team and it's just something they don't need right now. I don't really care what they do, either fire him or extend him and move on.

where is this "too much talent" you and others speak of all the time. The team is made up of crap to average players. Knew it wouldn't take long for one of you to say that line.

[GoColts8818]

where is this "too much talent" you and others speak of all the time. The team is made up of crap to average players. Knew it wouldn't take long for one of you to say that line.

okay give up on the season we'll see you next year which is a long ways off. 

[TYtheGHOST]

okay give up on the season we'll see you next year which is a long ways off.

right? His pessimistic attitude is so annoying

[Colts_Fan12]

okay give up on the season we'll see you next year which is a long ways off.

if we were smart we'd try for a top pick to actually get some real talent for hopefully a REAL GM next year to build around

[Colts_Fan12]

right? His pessimistic attitude is so annoying

yeah and the blind cheerleaders are annoying. funny me and a few others were expecting this so we are not shocked like most on here

[GoColts8818]

right? His pessimistic attitude is so annoying

I get why no one is happy right now, I really do.  However, there is clearly talent on this team.  It's just not clicking right now.  It will come around at some point.  They need to stop shooting themselves in the foot for starters though.  Honestly, they had two holds that whipped out two big runs on the first drive tonight that in turn set up the INT that set up the Jets first score.  Then they missed a chip shot field goal and fumbled the ball twice on the goal-line (yes I know one of them wasn't a true fumble you still can't let the ball come out like that.) If you don't do those things the Colts win the game. 

 

Last week they had a good offensive drive going to open the game and then had back to back flags on the o-line which backed them up and killed the drive followed by a turnover and then gave up the long TD pass that swung everything in Buffalo's direction. 

 

If they can get ride of the mistakes they will be alright. 

 

With that said, I get why people are skeptical that they can do that right now and why they are upset.  This team should not be in this position but they are.  So as fans all we can really do is hope they figure out away to turn things around like they did last year after an 0-2 start.  I will say I do think the difference in last year and this year is that you can ague that they played well at times in the first two games last year.  I am not sure you can say that about this team right now.  They have a lot of work to do and they better get it done in the next two weeks because after that they are into the meat of their schedule and if they don't have it figured out by then it's going to be too late.

[TYtheGHOST]

yeah and the blind cheerleaders are annoying. funny me and a few others were expecting this so we are not shocked like most on here

I am not shocked but the best teams go through struggles and can break through the struggles. I am disappointed by the start of the season but I am optimistic we can turn things around. If that happens I do expect you to change your attitude

[Colts_Fan12]

I am not shocked but the best teams go through struggles and can break through the struggles. I am disappointed by the start of the season but I am optimistic we can turn things around. If that happens I do expect you to change your attitude

I don't care if we win out this is unacceptable no reason we should come out this unprepared every year and never make adjustments during the game. The coaching staff is terrible and we need a refresh it's year 4 and we still are pulling the same crap we did in 2012

[TYtheGHOST]

I don't care if we win out this is unacceptable no reason we should come out this unprepared every year and never make adjustments during the game. The coaching staff is terrible and we need a refresh it's year 4 and we still are pulling the same crap we did in 2012

so if we won out and won the super bowl you still wouldn't be satisfied huh

[GoColts8818]

I don't care if we win out this is unacceptable no reason we should come out this unprepared every year and never make adjustments during the game. The coaching staff is terrible and we need a refresh it's year 4 and we still are pulling the same crap we did in 2012

The Colts have had how many comebacks since Pagano's been here?  I'll give you that the coaching staff clearly has an issue putting a good game plan together but one thing they have done well on a whole since Pagano has been here has been making adjustments at halftime. 

[GoColts8818]

if we were smart we'd try for a top pick to actually get some real talent for hopefully a REAL GM next year to build around

Or they could try to fix the issues as there are still 14 games left.  Odds are if they don't the people who would be "trying for a top pick next year" wont be here to use it so I really doubt they are just going to give up on the whole season after two games. 

[Colts_Fan12]

The Colts have had how many comebacks since Pagano's been here? I'll give you that the coaching staff clearly has an issue putting a good game plan together but one thing they have done well on a whole since Pagano has been here has been making adjustments at halftime.

against good teams?? No. we don't do a damn thing against teams like NE and Pitt we just keep going with the same crap game plan and % play calling

[GoColts8818]

against good teams?? No we don't do a damn thing against teams like NE and Pitt we just keep going with the same crap game plan amd % play calling

They had a really nice comeback against the Seahawks the year they won the Super Bowl, there was that whole record setting comeback thing against the Chiefs in 2013 in the playoffs, there was the Broncos game last year in the playoffs where the Colts dropped the hammer in the second half and while I know Peyton was hurt the Colts defense were also shutting their offense down and the Colts offense was having their way with the Broncos d in the second half of that game.  There was also the 49ers game that they dominated from start to finish when they were coming off a Super Bowl appearance and on their way back to the NFCCG.  So yes they have done it against good teams. 

 

Heck even if you watch the Steelers game they were on the come back trail until the safety happened.

 

About the only team that has completely owned them is the Pats and they own a lot of teams. 

[ColtsConsistency]

While we're at it, let's fire Greg Manusky too.

[JColts72]

OL is a joke, has more holes then swiss cheese with the revolving door system.This falls on Matt Mille 2 with his FA moves and draft picks waste to try to shore up the OL  

[DougDew]

Even if we do get a high draft pick they will pick a tight end w/r or running back, lots of folks seen this coming grigs is horrible pep is horrible and pags sucks for letting this happen

Not that I wouldn't like an olineman...but the Colts do need a new TE...quite badly.

The talk about "how they are going to keep both DA and Coby" always makes me laugh. I'd keep neither.

[coltsfanatic24]

Grigson is not a good gm. Any gm that trades for Richardson should no longer be a gm in the league.

[lollygagger8]

Pepe Le Pew needs to go. 

 

 

It's Chud Time. 

[csmopar]

could have had Collins in the 7th.............................................................

[OffensivelyPC]

Lol Todd Herrmann a -10.9...just I'm week 2. Our interior OL is straight garbage.

[JColts72]

Lol Todd Herrmann a -10.9...just I'm week 2. Our interior OL is straight garbage.

The OL has been garbage since Matt Millen 2 became the GM.

[csmopar]

Grigson is not a good gm. Any gm that trades for Richardson should no longer be a gm in the league.

At the time, Everybody, and I mean everybody, praised him for it. Media talking heads included. Trich just got fat and lazy......

[1959Colts]

Todd Heeremans is playing terrible.

Just because Heeremans is a new free agent signing, brought in by Grigson, shouldn't make him untouchable.

Any of the backups would have to be an improvement.

[OffensivelyPC]

The OL has been garbage since Matt Millen 2 became the GM.

Castanzo is pretty good.  Mewhort has been a good pickup too, though he wasn't on his A game last night.  But from LG to RG, we've got nothing.  Might as well just start three signs at LG, C, and RG that says "Out", "To", and "Lunch"

[kycoltsfan]

Someday....someone in Indianapolis will figure out the entire offense comes down to the Oline.

 

A good oline can make a mediocre QB and average receivers have big pass completion numbers.

 

A good oline pushes the defense and makes holes so any average RB can run effectively through them.  And a good running game makes opportunities for even average receivers to get open more and makes them that much more successful than great passing team with a bad o-line.  It all adds up.

 

 

Without a good o-line, then you end up with a star QB and fantastic receivers, and top notch RB, all running into a wall and never doing much at all in comparison to their average counterparts on a team with a good o-line.

 

That is what has happened in Indy since Peyton was drafted.

 

Until the O-Line is fixed, nothing will ever work consistently or well no matter how much you spend on the scoring players.

 

Give a team a fantastic Offensive Line, and mediocre QB/Receivers and they will be more successful than the Colts.

[CoachSmok3]

Lol. The oline isn't all pro but it is serviceable. Grigson has brought in tons of people to fix these issues. The biggest thing is coaching and game planning. A ton of people like to point to the Patriots oline as the standard but they often are starting undrafter players. The biggest difference is their coaching staff and QB mask their deficiencies.

Imo the defense has almost no blame tonight and the oline has some but not much blame. This game was heavily influenced by the inadequate play of Luck and the horrid horrid calling and coordinating of the offense.

 

I would offer my hand in support. The line is most def serviceable. Top tier? a humorous "no"; but, the same response could be offered for the argument of the line being in the bottom handful as well. The coaching on the offensive line could/should be more sound and to this point have yielded more positive "results", but I would like to focus on the above bold statement...

 

I posed a thought in the reaction thread, and I would like to pose the thought here as well-

 

We have seen the pattern of our offense in the face of adversity thus far this season- throw the ball down field. Now, my question is, is this pattern a result of an individuals decision making, or because a fundamental change was installed this off-season in regards to the ideology and culture of the offense?

 

philosophically I could understand and even argue in support of stretching the field while facing intense pressure and a wildly unpredictable defense (in terms of bringing pressure and from where, all the while not tipping their hand in the secondary). and i would say that a "weak" offensive line could lend credence to this ideology. How? It is understand today, even within the football layman, that if a team is blitzing that a quick and short pass is a great way to counter the defenses aggressiveness...but in most coverage, what is more easy to predict/defend? a quicker, shorter route tree. Why? because a physical DB can get his hands on the WR and disrupt timing, it is a shorter field to cover in regards to balancing man or zone responsibilities, and the closer you are to the line of scrimmage, the more physical bodies are present. the middle of the field is crowded, and the outside is still not multiple yards up field and away from defenders. 

 

we also have seen a huge drop off (to almost non existence) in the targets/production to/from our TEs. We have also seen this same decline in regards to RBs involvement in the passing game. I am of the belief, and am posing the debate to the forum- 

 

is the errant play by Luck, and the "abandoning" of the heavy (multiple TE) setsa and an emphasis on the "power" running game, with the huge increase in attacking (lobbing the ball) downfield tied to an individuals breakdown (Luck), a coaching staff (OC play calling), or a change in the offensive ideology from that of the past 3 years, to an ideology that is not similar to the previous 3 years an almost any aspect?

 

basically what I am aiming to discuss, in all of my ramblings, is...I am of the belief that our team is not too far gone. I believe that the Online is "serviceable" and does give us the ability to compete against any NFL team. Will we dominate, no, but we can compete. I also believe that the common notion of play calling and abandoning aspects of the game is a little misunderstood as well. Perhaps id like to have more faith in the coaching staff than to suspect that all of the troubles are cause by what play is called/checked to...

 

but perhaps the negativity towards the coaching needs to be shifted away from the plays, and moved to the thoughts behind the plays. I believe what is causing soooo many fans and NFL observers alike to question the Colts offense is the original idea that Coach P was going to install a POWER RUN games, and tried very relentlessly for 3 years to do so. Now we have a plethora of what should be very capable WRs and deep threats, and I believe that a scheme change was made not only in the defense this season, but also the offense. 

 

Its just the perception of the failures to the masses, and the lack of discussion regarding the offensive scheme change (we all talked about the Colts Defense changing schemes with the roster cuts, personnel changes...but in the off-season all of the offensive personnel changes, were not viewed as a scheme change, but merely as creating the "Greatest Shoe on Turf".

 

Perhaps if this were to be true, and better understood by those screaming for mass firings after 2 weeks...perhaps we should still be concerned, but maybe doing far less finger pointing, and understanding we are doing something different then we have. And through growing pains muscles are built. 

[FRW]

Is there some reason why Jon Harrison isn't being tried at one of the guard positions? He wasn't a great center, but he's big and couldn't be much worse than Louis or Harriman. We also have Reitz who has shown, when healthy, to be a decent guard. Even Thornton can't be much worse than what we have on the field right now.

 

I will probably get flamed, but in a small defense of Griggs, he did bring in Thomas and Cherilus both of whom were considered solid moves, but they couldn't stay healthy. What quality of line would we have if both those guys were playing and performing at their expected levels? 

 

Castanzo, Thomas, Holmes, Mewhort, Cherilus, I would be pretty comfortable with that group.

[throwing BBZ]

Pep is the OC. He is completely responsible. It's his job to reel Luck in. To coach him to make right reads and throws. He's regressed.

 

 ! Harbaugh did that in college. Luck spent a week studying with Tom Moore before he played an NFL game.

 And plenty more prep we don`t know about we can all be sure of.

   You must watch the games on the radio! Get ___ real!!

 

[ColtsFan1976]

I have a better idea.  Tape their hands closed so the line cannot hold anyone.

[Spider2-Y-Banana]

Are any of these guys still avialable?  I think Mathis signed with Denver adn Long with Atlanta.

 

Offensive Guards

1. Evan Mathis
2. Rob Sims
3. Charlie Johnson
4. Gabe Carimi

 

Offensive Tackles

1. Jake Long
2. Gosder Cherilus
3. Anthony Collins
4. Sam Baker

 

Centers

1. Chris Myers
2. Brian de la Puente
3. Roberto Garza
4. Dominic Raiola
5. Scott Wells

[DougDew]

The Colts have had how many comebacks since Pagano's been here?  I'll give you that the coaching staff clearly has an issue putting a good game plan together but one thing they have done well on a whole since Pagano has been here has been making adjustments at halftime.

Which indicates that they are capable of seeing what is going wrong and fixing it.

I think the problem may be that they start off stubbornly trying to "do what we want to do" instead of going into a game with knowledge of the opposing defenses strengths and weaknesses and practicing different plays during the week to attack the weaknesses they see on film.

[John Waylon]

I really don't know if this line can even be improved with this group. Costanzo and Mewhort are solid, but everyone else is pretty much dreadful. Holmes has his moments, but they are few and far between.

[GoColts8818]

Which indicates that they are capable of seeing what is going wrong and fixing it.

I think the problem may be that they start off stubbornly trying to "do what we want to do" instead of going into a game with knowledge of the opposing defenses strengths and weaknesses and practicing different plays during the week to attack the weaknesses they see on film.

i can agree with that. It's reverse Caldwell where he would have a good game plan but no adjustments.

[deedub75]

The seeds of an o line should have been planted when Grigson took over.  However, he wanted to win now AND rebuild at the same time which usually doesn't work.  Many of us would have been OK with having a couple of down years in the beginning where we didn't make the playoffs but yielded some higher drafts picks but Grigson would have wasted higher picks anyway.  I am totally against Grigson having a say over the lineup.  That is the coaches job.  Grigson is buying the groceries, cooking the food, and making Pagano serve a crappy dinner.  As much as we talk about Jerry Jones, at least he seems to know how to build an o line the right way.  

 

Irsay needs to cede control of the team to whomever he's going to pass it on too.  He doesn't look all there anymore.  Also, why do we have so many Stanford players on the team?  I've never seen a pro team go out and surround it's QB with players and coaches from that QB's former school.

[ColtStronger]

*  It's not that were 0-2 but it's terrible is that the front office and coaching staff hasn't learned from their mistakes or understand there is a relevant problem at hand.  Bottom line is, the OL has been a major problem since Peyton's departure.   Grigson thinks you can have top notch skilled players win football games, but in reality the trenches pave the way for others to have success on a football team.  The OL sucks and the coaches doesn't know how to gameplan against top notch defenses or power running teams.  We could literally be head and shoulders above where we are with Tyler Varga starting RB and an extremely hard nosed OL.  If Varga was on the Cowboys However, fans like to see Phillip Dorsett and TY Hilton run there 4.3 40's in a 100 yard dash for a TD.  Have the fans go ooohhh and ahhhh.  That's so amazing!  Look we can score a lot of points against average teams.  However when push comes to shove against solid teams we fail and fail miserably. 

 

Colts don't need to be flashy with a 4 great WR's and one hardly sees action if they can't protect the QB!  I like Dorsett, but like many of fans were upset, it was a terrible pick.  We are in desperate need of other help elsewhere.  I don't know how people have jobs with that type of mindframe.  Sure he will be great in 4 years, but we are in a win NOW mode, that pick doesn't help us win NOW.  Anderson/Parry are saving grace for Grigs in this draft, if it wouldn't be for them and Geathers (average pick), this would be like every other draft for him (aside of 2012 which would be a colossal fail to screw that one up).  Mewhort and Moncrief are solid but those 2 are the only standouts after a botched trade attempt for Richardson. 

 

Im a firm believer in second or third chances, and being optimistic, but all the evidence points to that they just don't get it, and it will probably take durastic measures for them to "get it" (Andrew Luck injury or people starting to get fired, perhaps not winning the weakest division in football etc.)  Something that says well it's too late now, but you probably should've learned your lesson long ago.  That  being said I give up!!  I honestly think things will still come together, but we are kind of a lost cause when it comes to winning big games (Pats/Super Bowls etc.)  We are at the very bottom being a top tiered team (even though it doesn't appear so at the moment).  The team has extremely athletic players but haven't put it all together because of broken links (coaching/gameplan, weak OL/ILB).  These have been the main problems all along, but the coaches lie saying "were making progress", or "it's a process".  It's like an addict saying they don't have a problem, or knowing there is a problem, but refusing to change!  

 

So as of now I'm content saying we're not going to win the SB again this year, and still anticipating when the "Big Change" is going to happen.   No, it's not doom or gloom, but literally there's little hope. 

Edited September 23, 2015 by Nadine
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[bavanlan]

Our O-Line it's bad, but it's not getting better at this point.

When your O-Line can give your QB only 3 seconds, your game plan shouldn't be full of 4+ second WR routes.

How about a screen? 5 yard underneath cross? You know it's clear because the LBs are all in the backfield.

Gameplanning is terrible.