Why Won't they Unleash Dorsett?

[Defjamz26]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-11-06/sports/0611060171_1_dolphins-ball-10-yard-line

That's a cool little tidbit, but you get my point though right? I don't think him being a good PR is essential. I care more about his prowess as a receiver.

[Superman]

That's a cool little tidbit, but you get my point though right? I don't think him being a good PR is essential. I care more about his prowess as a receiver.

Yeah I get your point, but I'm saying even Devin Hester wouldn't have been Devin Hester if they yanked him for a couple muffed punts.

[MR. Blueblood]

I'm not speaking to what any or every team does in the draft room. I'm talking about draft theory. Take the best players that fit your football philosophy.

And it's separate from scouting also. Poor scouting isn't the same as bad theory. Don't pass on a better player to try to fill a need with a lesser player.

All I've heard since the new regime has taken over is that they want to run the ball and stop the run.  That, to the best of my knowledge, is the football philosophy that our HC has wanted to have since day one of his tenure.  So how does a WR fit that football philosophy?

[Narcosys]

Andrew luck wasn't good his first game ether' guess we should have cut him!

Not even remotely close to the same. Luck played as the starter his first game. That's his point. Dorsett isn't starting

[JWF]

The fumble was bad but as a receiver he looked good to me.

[JR Indy]

No question Dorsett needs more burn with the O, but damn you don't gotta be THAT hard on Donte after the 1st game. He's going to be fine. We just have to stick with the run & not inexcusably abandon it after the 1st qtr cause like Herremans said after the game, the passing attack will suffer if we don't run the ball & I saw that Frank & Pep were having a talk after the game & by how irked Frank appeared to be in his post game interview, please believe he will be getting that rock vs the Jets.

 

Also Pep's offense is considered "TE friendly" right? If that's the case, & I didn't see the game so I'm just going mainly by the stat line, then there's absolutely no way that Allen & Fleener should have just a total of 4 rec 22 yds TD between them. They're way too talented for that to happen & maybe we need to look at Andrew as to why he didn't get them more involved.

You right I should not be that hard on Donte after the first game.  What I was trying to say was what you posted the game plan the coaches came up with was a bad, no adjustments at all.

[Buck Showalter]

This thread just won a gold medal

In the special olympics...

[Superman]

All I've heard since the new regime has taken over is that they want to run the ball and stop the run. That, to the best of my knowledge, is the football philosophy that our HC has wanted to have since day one of his tenure. So how does a WR fit that football philosophy?

Uhh, wanting to be a good running team with a good defense doesn't mean you don't need WRs.

Besides, that's not even what I'm talking about. I'm talking about not drafting a heavy footed guard when you want to run a ZBS. Not drafting a 270 pound interior DL when you run a 3-4 base defense. Etc. And of course, positional values (no RBs in the first round) and QB situation.

[BleedBlu8792]

Donte is a stud....with a year of experience under his belt....and way better than Ancient Andre already.

If they 'feed Moncrief' now, the Colts will be all the better for it.

Play Dorsett a little to stretch the field.

Let Andre do 'move the chains' duty (which could just as easily be done by Griff)

 

No, no, and no.... Sorry, but the kid STILL can't catch with his hands. He's still catching everything with his body. "Stud" receivers use their hands, not their body's, to make plays. His out of bounds catch would have been caught had he used his hands because he would have had his feet set. He also gave a * poor effort on one of Lucks throws over the middle. Granted it was a little high but he barely put one hand up and the ball just went over his head. He's a big receiver with potential whose playing soft as a roll of Charmin right now.  STUD...

 

Dorsett may have screwed up on his punt returns, but he damn near equalled Moncrief in yardage on only 2 catches and in even less time.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Dorsett shows promise...

 

In everything but punt returning.

 

He looks like he can contribute greatly to the offense pretty soon. Hoping he gets a lot more snaps with TY out, I feel like he can be a game changer. 

[Freenyfan102]

Once he gets hit he will fumble the ball

[BleedBlu8792]

Once he gets hit he will fumble the ball

 

well he got hit twice on both of his catches yesterday and held onto the ball. Ironically when he wasn't hit that's when he fumbled. 

[MR. Blueblood]

Uhh, wanting to be a good running team with a good defense doesn't mean you don't need WRs.

Besides, that's not even what I'm talking about. I'm talking about not drafting a heavy footed guard when you want to run a ZBS. Not drafting a 270 pound interior DL when you run a 3-4 base defense. Etc. And of course, positional values (no RBs in the first round) and QB situation.

I agree that a team needs WRs, but no matter how hard you try to spin it the use of that pick goes against your own words "take the best players that fit your football philosophy" when your philosophy (supposedly) is run the ball, stop the run.

 

To the second part, so I guess drafting a 4-3 DE and moving them to OLB in a 3-4 would fit this criteria then?  Or are you going to argue that you can cram that square peg into a round hole and make it work too?  

[Gavin]

I agree that a team needs WRs, but no matter how hard you try to spin it the use of that pick goes against your own words "take the best players that fit your football philosophy" when your philosophy (supposedly) is run the ball, stop the run.

 

To the second part, so I guess drafting a 4-3 DE and moving them to OLB in a 3-4 would fit this criteria then?  Or are you going to argue that you can cram that square peg into a round hole and make it work too?  

The problem isn't whether Werner is a 43 DE or 34 linebacker, He did his share of standing up and rushing the passer at Florida State, That's nothing to new to him. He actually wasn't doing anything new until he was switched to Sam. His problem is lack of polished pass rush moves and lack of great burst that many good/great pass rushers have

[lollygagger8]

Feed Moncrief last year and now he's dead to everyone.

 

He's not dead. he just needs to learn how to catch the ball with his hands instead of his body. 

[lollygagger8]

Leave Griff in for punts, and Varga for kickoffs. 

[Valpo2004]

Because he was catching passes against the prevent defense at the end of the game.  

 

They whern't trying to prevent him from catching the ball they where trying to prevent him from scoring.

[LockeDown]

Dorsett will get playing time unless there are politics going on.  Normally, I wouldn't even think that, but what with all of the Grigson/Pagano/Irsay rumors, I don't know anymore.  It now makes me wonder if Grigson is trying to force certain players to get the ball more.  I'm thinking he did that with Trent Richardson, so there is a precedent.

[krunk]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-11-06/sports/0611060171_1_dolphins-ball-10-yard-line

 

Wouldn't surprise me if Dorsett got on the phone at some point after the game and spoke with Devin Hester.

[Jason_]

I agree that a team needs WRs, but no matter how hard you try to spin it the use of that pick goes against your own words "take the best players that fit your football philosophy" when your philosophy (supposedly) is run the ball, stop the run.

 

To the second part, so I guess drafting a 4-3 DE and moving them to OLB in a 3-4 would fit this criteria then?  Or are you going to argue that you can cram that square peg into a round hole and make it work too?  

 

Oh look, we're STILL beating that dead horse.  Good god....how many times does it need to be said?  This wasn't some outrageous, never-before-attempted experiment by the mad scientists Grigson and Pagano....4-3 DE are converted to 3-4 OLBs literally every single year.

[chrisfarley]

Pep is out of his league

who would you take, Pep or Arians?  To even make that statement I just made seems so ridiculous because the no-brainer would be Bruce...... That just tells me how far we have taken a step back.  Pep DID have some good play-calling games last year.  I think he learns from his mistakes and will adjust accordingly and have himself a good game come this MNF.  I'm looking forward to seeing him mix things up better, have better balance, etc, etc,.... Buffalo was very hard to calls plays against in defense of Pep.

[Mameluc]

Every time I've seen Dorsett catching a pass no one is even close to him. He's beating coverage rather easily, and it's been going on since pre-season. But the staff seems to be playing it safe with him. The staff didn't play him heavily until the 4th quarter but it was too late.

As soon as Hilton went down he should have seen his workload. I'm not sure why they're shy about playing him.

jesus christ dude week 1

[Steamboat_Shaun]

He learns how to catch a Punt, he can get on the offense

Until then, no.

Well, not really no cause Hilton hurt now so he's forced to play next week

 

Why does he need to be a good punt returner to be an asset for us on offense? He's a first round draft pick, I'd have reservations putting him back there to field punts anyways.

[aaron11]

Because he was catching passes against the prevent defense at the end of the game.  

 

They whern't trying to prevent him from catching the ball they where trying to prevent him from scoring.

prevent or not he always seems to be open.  they were not running prevent during the entire preseason too.

 

its time to get this guy on the field to see what we have.  to this point it looks like he can get open and is a threat after the catch

 

punt returning is not related to getting on the field on offense, give that job to griff since our blockers arnt any good anyway.  if kick returns mattered then they would also pull moncrief because he sucks at it too

[coltsfanatic24]

Dorsett should have a good game against the Jets with Cromartie and Hilton out.

[throwing BBZ]

As I said in another post, Dorsett is a player that needs to play right now.  The coaches are not playing him because he is a rookie and he is not their favorite player (or the player they would have chose on draft day), and he not know every 20,000 routes they got in the play book.  I guess these same coaches would sit a Jerry Rice or a Randy Moss because he does not know those 20,000 routes.  Again no way am I comparing Dorsett to Jerry or Randy.  Dorsett has a lot to prove and live up too.  But he should be out there game one play one. The coaches got him in there on punt returns on a rainy day, with our very special team blocking, Dorsett was set up to fail. It would not shock me if that coach does not have him lining up to kick the ball off next game.

 

Here a thought, play Dorsett with Ty and see what happens.  We might score more than 14 points.  We might score more than 30 points.  I know they are going to keep playing Donte, because he knows the plays, Play Donte, and Luck throw 10 more interceptions.  Play Donte, and you thought that head kicking in New England was something.  Wait until this year,  Donte is a OK receiver against AFC south, but not against the rest of the league.  Colts coaching staff quit playing your favorites and play Dorsett, he can open time and time again.   

 

 . Do you really follow this stuff??

 7 out of 14 to TY. no td`s and an int. thrown his way

 4 of 10 to Andre J. no td`s and an int. thrown his way

 6-11 and a TD to Moncrief

 Moncrief did fine.

 The Rookie should ONLY be out there when he is ready.

  Something ANYONE who actually follows the NFL KNOWS.

 About 1/3 of each years 1st rd draft picks turn out to be average to below average.

 You thinking it is a Guarantee of success means you are Totally LOST!

  Thanks for your time. JMO of course.

[aaron11]

  . Do you really follow this stuff??

 7 out of 14 to TY. no td`s and an int. thrown his way

 4 of 10 to Andre J. no td`s and an int. thrown his way

 6-11 and a TD to Moncrief

 Moncrief did fine.

 The Rookie should ONLY be out there when he is ready.

  Something ANYONE who actually follows the NFL KNOWS.

 About 1/3 of each years 1st rd draft picks turn out to be average to below average.

 You thinking it is a Guarantee of success means you are Totally LOST!

  Thanks for your time. JMO of course.

 moncrief is below average, and he was not fine yesterday.  6 catches for 46 yards is not good. he was terrible at kick returner too. his big games last year came against jags, titans, steelers and redskins.

[John Waylon]

If we're gonna unleash him, I sure hope it's away from PR's. Two muffs, and a ridiculous fair catch inside the 10 were far more than enough ST failure for me. 

 

Josh Cribbs is still available................................................................................................................................................................................................

[JR Indy]

  . Do you really follow this stuff??

 7 out of 14 to TY. no td`s and an int. thrown his way

 4 of 10 to Andre J. no td`s and an int. thrown his way

 6-11 and a TD to Moncrief

 Moncrief did fine.

 The Rookie should ONLY be out there when he is ready.

  Something ANYONE who actually follows the NFL KNOWS.

 About 1/3 of each years 1st rd draft picks turn out to be average to below average.

 You thinking it is a Guarantee of success means you are Totally LOST!

  Thanks for your time. JMO of 

 

 

One thing I will agree with you on is Donte, Donte did just fine. I was talking about the coaching decisions, on not to play one of the more talented  receivers on the team. But as far as my knowledge about the game.  I'm not a coach, player, or an expert.  I'm just a Colts Fan and I say that proudly.  As far as rookies playing when they are ready, I understand that.

But I never posted anything about playing Dorsett just because he is the first round pick, guys like Werner, and T Rich comes to mind.  I said play the better player PERIOD.  Whether it is a WR, RB, DE, DT, or LB.  So I'm totally lost,  thank you for your time. JMO

[Jim H.]

Excuse me, but, wasn't this his first AND ONLY NFL game, thus far?

 

[Superman]

I agree that a team needs WRs, but no matter how hard you try to spin it the use of that pick goes against your own words "take the best players that fit your football philosophy" when your philosophy (supposedly) is run the ball, stop the run.

 

To the second part, so I guess drafting a 4-3 DE and moving them to OLB in a 3-4 would fit this criteria then?  Or are you going to argue that you can cram that square peg into a round hole and make it work too?  

 

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean I'm spinning anything. Actually, I don't think it's beyond you, you're just doubling down on a flawed premise. "Run the ball, stop the run" doesn't mean you don't need receivers. That's just ridiculous, and we all know it.

 

And again, that's not the point. Like I said, which you chose to ignore, we're talking about drafting players that fit your schemes. No one is so thick to think the Colts run a scheme that doesn't require receivers.

 

As for drafting a supposed 4-3 DE and asking him to play 3-4 OLB, no, that doesn't fit the criteria. And that's because an edge defender is drafted for his ability to rush the passer (specifically in early rounds), and pass rush traits aren't confined to whether a player stands up or rushes from a three point stance. This concept is proven over many years in the NFL. Werner's problem is a lack of pass rush traits, not poor scheme fit. Robert Mathis succeeded in the transition because he has legitimate pass rush ability, and that's true of a thousand other former DEs going to OLB, and vice versa.

 

Even if that example did fit the criteria -- which, once again, it does not -- that has nothing to do with drafting a WR in the first round because you think he's the best player that fits your team's philosophy.

[Superman]

 moncrief is below average, and he was not fine yesterday.  6 catches for 46 yards is not good. he was terrible at kick returner too. his big games last year came against jags, titans, steelers and redskins.

 

What a bad post.

[chad72]

Because he is not the Kraken.

[NewEra]

I like TY, have his jersey but I don't think he is a #1. He has glimpses and then there's games he's inconsistent and invisible. From what I've seen I would not be shocked if Dorset becomes the better of the two.

[aaron11]

What a bad post.

meh, havent been that impressed with moncrief.  dorsett already looks like a better player with more upside

[JH8788]

I like TY, have his jersey but I don't think he is a #1. He has glimpses and then there's games he's inconsistent and invisible. From what I've seen I would not be shocked if Dorset becomes the better of the two.

Then why has he eclipsed 1,000+ yds the last 2 years & was 6th in receiving yds last season? If that doesn't say #1 WR then I'm not sure what does.

[NewEra]

Then why has he eclipsed 1,000+ yds the last 2 years & was 6th in receiving yds last season? If that doesn't say #1 WR then I'm not sure what does.

I don't know...cause we're a pass happy team?

[Stephen]

I don't know...cause we're a pass happy team?

He is without a question the best WR on the roster. So he is a number1

[NewEra]

He is without a question the best WR on the roster. So he is a number1

He's not one of the top 4 in the NFL, which he is paid like.

[JH8788]

I don't know...cause we're a pass happy team?

He's a top 10 WR so that's a #1 to me. And when opposing teams put their #1 CB &/or double team you game in & game out you are a #1. Don't believe me? Go ask Joe Haden, Aqib Talib, Bill Belichick, the Texans, Chiefs, & Bengals if T.Y. is a #1.