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Were the receivers not getting separation...


DalTXColtsFan
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To corroborate what I was saying earlier:

 

Per PFF:

– The real struggle for the Colts came against Buffalo’s coverage that blanketed their receivers for much of the afternoon and put a lot of pressure on Luck to be pinpoint accurate—which he certainly was not. The Colts scheme also relied heavily on isolation routes, hoping for their wide receivers to simply beat their man in coverage, rather than scheming up plays that make it difficult to play man coverage. WR T.Y. Hilton still came away with a nice +2.0 grade, but newcomer Andre Johnson posted ac2.1 grade after catching four of his 10 targets for only 24 yards.

 

Our coaching staff coming up with a creative scheme or strategic game planning .....  :lol:  haha  lmao  :funny:

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It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

 

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable.  In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times.  If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday.  49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.  

I agree with everything in your post, but may I add to it..  The GM needs to fire anyone who made the decision to purposely decide that Moncrief needs to start over Dorsett.  Donte is a OK receiver, but he does not have the talent to break a game open.  He may have 4.4 or 4.3 speed, but it does not show up on game day.  You got Ty Hilton on the field and he can not get separation.  And they are not playing Dorsett because he does not know the plays, WHAT?????? You mean to tell me if the Colts had a Randy Moss, Jerry Rice, in their prime that you would start Donte Moncrief over them because they don't know the plays.  That coach needs a pink slip.  (I am not comparing Dorsett to these guys, the young man has a lot of growing to do). But when you are that talented.  You adjust your play book and game plan to match what the player does best.   Yesterday offensive game plan on personnel decisions was a joke.  What Dorsett do without Ty for the next game or so remains to be seen.  But I know what Donte will do very, very little.  The coaches need to stop playing his favorites because they been there longer, play the better man.

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i wouldn't say Aj but stop same thing happened with nicks how we utilized our big recievers..luck throws jump balls to fleener you have to treat Andre the same that's how he plays not giving him excuses for not showing up tho but that is his game jumping up and muscling the ball away from the defender.. That being said too much hate on the players especially Dorsett cuz his muffed punts the coaching and play calling was just as equal because this game shouldn't have been played that way from the first to third qtr with no adjustments

Thank you! I've been saying this for a long time. Everybody got on Nicks case when he said the offense didn't fit him. Well to me, it seems that Pep draws up plays where Hilton is the primary WR. And that's where Luck looks to the most. And like you said he throws jump balls to Fleener——which most the time fleener doesn't catch, but hasn't and really didn't with Nicks. Or Johnson, yet.

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I agree with everything in your post, but may I add to it..  The GM needs to fire anyone who made the decision to purposely decide that Moncrief needs to start over Dorsett.  Donte is a OK receiver, but he does not have the talent to break a game open.  He may have 4.4 or 4.3 speed, but it does not show up on game day.  You got Ty Hilton on the field and he can not get separation.  And they are not playing Dorsett because he does not know the plays, WHAT?????? You mean to tell me if the Colts had a Randy Moss, Jerry Rice, in their prime that you would start Donte Moncrief over them because they don't know the plays.  That coach needs a pink slip.  (I am not comparing Dorsett to these guys, the young man has a lot of growing to do). But when you are that talented.  You adjust your play book and game plan to match what the player does best.   Yesterday offensive game plan on personnel decisions was a joke.  What Dorsett do without Ty for the next game or so remains to be seen.  But I know what Donte will do very, very little.  The coaches need to stop playing his favorites because they been there longer, play the better man.

I disagree, Dorsett hasn't shown anything yet to say he's better than Moncrief.  Just the opposite in fact, two times he had a chance to really help the team and he fumbled the chance away.  One time it recovered by the Colts the next it was recovered by the Bills.

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I disagree, Dorsett hasn't shown anything yet to say he's better than Moncrief.  Just the opposite in fact, two times he had a chance to really help the team and he fumbled the chance away.  One time it recovered by the Colts the next it was recovered by the Bills.

What I am saying about Donte outside of that Pittsburgh game what has he actually done?  I think he had 440 receiving yards last year. I think 4 or 5 yards came in that New England game last year.  When it comes down to being dependable he might be a better option for punt returns, but not as a game breaking receiver.  Yes he had 1 TD yesterday.  But his game is very limited,  Nobody in national media (ESPN, NFL Network) rarely brings his name up.   But they bring up Dorsett name quite a few times, why because he has talent. I hope this coaching staff does not mess this up.

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What I am saying about Donte outside of that Pittsburgh game what has he actually done? I think he had 440 receiving yards last year. I think 4 or 5 yards came in that New England game last year. When it comes down to being dependable he might be a better option for punt returns, but not as a game breaking receiver. Yes he had 1 TD yesterday. But his game is very limited, Nobody in national media (ESPN, NFL Network) rarely brings his name up. But they bring up Dorsett name quite a few times, why because he has talent. I hope this coaching staff does not mess this up.

Dorsett is brought up because the colts chose a receiver instead of something else with the first pick
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Right.  On the pass to TY that was intercepted, if Luck threw a good pass, it would have been a TD.  He was rushed and threw off his back foot.

 

I'm going to watch some of the O line play later today.  I don't think they did that bad in pass protection for most of the game.

 

That first drive was going great until we self destructed.

 

Yup, Luck hit Allen on a blown coverage and that put us in position to score. Then it gets called back for holding and we stack another penalty onto it instantly right after that. There was no good disciplined team play Sunday. Got caught on a lot of long down situations... just bad football all together from us. We need better execution, a more consistent Luck, and more physical play from the wideouts.

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Yup, Luck hit Allen on a blown coverage and that put us in position to score. Then it gets called back for holding and we stack another penalty onto it instantly right after that. There was no good disciplined team play Sunday. Got caught on a lot of long down situations... just bad football all together from us. We need better execution, a more consistent Luck, and more physical play from the wideouts.

 

I watched that play (Luck to Allen) several times.  There was holding, but it was the type of holding they could call on every play, for every team.  IMO, it didn't provide Luck any extra time to get the ball off.

 

That's just one play, but it seemed to start the self destruction.

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What I am saying about Donte outside of that Pittsburgh game what has he actually done?  I think he had 440 receiving yards last year. I think 4 or 5 yards came in that New England game last year.  When it comes down to being dependable he might be a better option for punt returns, but not as a game breaking receiver.  Yes he had 1 TD yesterday.  But his game is very limited,  Nobody in national media (ESPN, NFL Network) rarely brings his name up.   But they bring up Dorsett name quite a few times, why because he has talent. I hope this coaching staff does not mess this up.

I agree, I don't think Moncrief is as explosive as Dorsett and may not be a game breaking receiver but even in the Bills game he showed he was dependable, has good hands and Luck's trust him.  I think between last year and the Bills game he ha shown enough to be a reliable #2 WR for the Colts.

 

I also disagree that he can't get separation, on the few tiems in the TV broadcast when they showed a replay he was coming out of his breaks pretty well Luck was late delivering the ball many times and that 0.25 to 0.375 second delay allows the DB to close.

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I am really hoping that the offense just needs to gel and I think it will.  

 

This happens every year.  Pre-season means nothing.  The first game means almost nothing.  The only thing is it can mean home field advantage, but usually it is not indicative of how the team plays the rest of the season.  In the end, the teams with the great QBs will emerge and be in the playoffs.  We will be one of those teams.  We need the run game and defense to be stout by that time.  The passing game will take care of itself.

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I saw ONE time where we got creative with play calling on a screen to Gore, a screen being one of the best plays to run against a team blitzing 6-7 defenders regularly, and it was set up perfectly, Luck over threw Gore so it didn't work out, but we never went back to it!!  Why??  We just kept trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole.

Edited by 21isSuperman
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I watched that play (Luck to Allen) several times.  There was holding, but it was the type of holding they could call on every play, for every team.  IMO, it didn't provide Luck any extra time to get the ball off.

 

That's just one play, but it seemed to start the self destruction.

 

Exactly, he would have completed it 100x over anyway. So silly.

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The Colts receivers are fine. In fact, their position group is one of the strengths of the team. I am convinced however, that the offensive system is holding them back.

 

I watched the Bills offense with T. Taylor, and the Titans with Marriotta, and the Forty-Niners with Kaepernick and I noticed the same thing -- they make it easy for their QBs and receivers to succeed. They have good plays designed for easy completions. They have good route concepts and they use the QB roll-out to avoid pressure.

 

Then I watch the Colts offense and it looks like they are trying to do advanced mathematical formulas to complete each pass. Heck, even a simple screen pass is an adventure. Luck missed on both attempts.

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THIS BILLS game tape can be used to the Colts advantage, if Pep Ham would put down his Xbox 1 controller, get out of practice mode, and get this team ready for live game action. Let's give them (NFL teams) what they think want, and more of what they don't. During the 1st Quarter, maybe even the first half, distract them by simply letting them chase our $65 million-dollar TY-McLaren around field, while the other WR's,TE's, & RB's make plays. Pep's gotta come back home to his base package. Start inside, moving out....THROW THE BALL TO SOMEBODY, FIRST!!! THIS AIN'T MADDEN,.PEP!!!

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I saw ONE time where we got creative with play calling on a screen to Gore, a screen being one of the best plays to run against a team blitzing 6-7 defenders regularly, and it was set up perfectly, Luck over threw Gore so it didn't work out, but we never went back to it!!  Why??  We just kept trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole.

That's been a common theme with this regime, in my opinion

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I think we really needed a big physical (Dez,Megatron,Jones) style #1. I know every other team wants one also!

But our smaller guys get beat up at the line or going up for the ball. Our size guys (Johnson) is older and a little slower. (Moncriff) looks weak and scared similar to PS Carter.

Other teams have noticed and will defend likewise.

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To be fair, Andrew needs to shoulder some of the play calling "blame."  He has the option of changing the play.  He said himself he checked out of many run calls because of the defensive look.  I guess Pep or Pags could have just told him "stop changing the play!!" but then isn't that what we praise Luck for?  His ability to make the right call?

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To be fair, Andrew needs to shoulder some of the play calling "blame."  He has the option of changing the play.  He said himself he checked out of many run calls because of the defensive look.  I guess Pep or Pags could have just told him "stop changing the play!!" but then isn't that what we praise Luck for?  His ability to make the right call?

Very true.  The Bills (Rex) disguised the D all game and Andrew got suckered into making a lot of bad audibles.

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Two different issues.

 

Abandoning the run is one.

 

The lack of use of Frank Gore is the other.

 

Yes,  we gave up on the run WAY too soon.

 

I seriously doubt we gave up Gore for any other reason than him not being 100%.

 

What would be the reason?

If you believe Pagano they were calling running plays Luck was checking out of them. 

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To be fair, Andrew needs to shoulder some of the play calling "blame."  He has the option of changing the play.  He said himself he checked out of many run calls because of the defensive look.  I guess Pep or Pags could have just told him "stop changing the play!!" but then isn't that what we praise Luck for?  His ability to make the right call?

and according to Pagano that's what was going on, Luck was checking out of the run plays based on what he saw.  I also think people need to remember the QB decides who the pass goes to when he throws.  I say that because I've seen some people complaining about the number of targets TY was getting and blaming the coaches or that.  That's more on the QB because Luck is the one who decides who to throw to on plays.  Yes I am sure Hilton was the first read on most of those plays, as he should be based on what we are paying and how he has produced for us in the past, but if Luck didn't like what he saw he had other guys he could have thrown too.

 

With that said I think part of the reason why Luck wasn't going to other guys is that I do think other guys were struggling to get open.  A lot of credit needs to go to the Bills corners because they played a heck of a game.  I am not too worried about Johnson, I think Luck and him are still feeling each other out.  Moncrief was a bit disappointing to see in that regard.  Still I am not going to lose my mind over it.  I expect to see a much better effort Monday night. 

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I believe him.   I can't see the upside of lying for Pep by putting it on Luck?     That doesn't add up to me.....

i don't think he was trying to put it on Luck as much as explain why they had 18 passes in a row. He also didn't say Luck by name it was more like "we called some runs but they were changed at the line based on what the Bills showed us. We had our chances to make plays and didn't get the job done. We have to do better the next time." I am sure that's not the exact quote but it's close. It takes a little reading between the lines there but Luck is the one who would have changed the call at the line. I also think it's reading too much into it to say the was or was trying to throw Luck under the bus.
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