Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Were the receivers not getting separation...


Recommended Posts

...or was it just my imagination?

 

I was at the game and it sure looked to me like the receivers were getting open by a half yard if that and even when they caught the ball the defenders were closing almost instantly.  Even Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him.

 

Was it out-of-their-minds play by the Bills secondary, bad play by the receivers, bad playcalling by the O?

Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I remember seeing it was a combination of Luck missing on a lot of throws which forced the receivers to slow down to adjust to the ball and let the defenders close the gap, or it was Luck having to throw early and the routes not be able to develop.  We had some luck with screen passes early but abandoned them for the vertical attack which just wasn't working....

 

Rough day overall...

Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I remember seeing it was a combination of Luck missing on a lot of throws which forced the receivers to slow down to adjust to the ball and let the defenders close the gap, or it was Luck having to throw early and the routes not be able to develop.  We had some luck with screen passes early but abandoned them for the vertical attack which just wasn't working....

 

Rough day overall...

 

Right.  On the pass to TY that was intercepted, if Luck threw a good pass, it would have been a TD.  He was rushed and threw off his back foot.

 

I'm going to watch some of the O line play later today.  I don't think they did that bad in pass protection for most of the game.

 

That first drive was going great until we self destructed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right.  On the pass to TY that was intercepted, if Luck threw a good pass, it would have been a TD.  He was rushed and threw off his back foot.

 

I'm going to watch some of the O line play later today.  I don't think they did that bad in pass protection for most of the game.

 

That first drive was going great until we self destructed.

 

From what I recall, the O-line actually did a decent enough job given the amount of pressure that was coming.  I remember several plays where Luck rushed a throw when he didn't have to and it was incomplete.  I would say the worse part of the O-line were the penalties that killed drives.  We can't really say they didn't run block well because we didn't really try to run it too much...

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

 

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable.  In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times.  If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday.  49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

 

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable.  In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times.  If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday.  49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.  

I agree, fire pep, why get a top rb and not use him? also why not some quick passes to the tight ends or some screen passes? fire pep

Link to post
Share on other sites

When facing a tough man-to-man defense, let's not just line up and let them get their hands on the receivers. Let's use pick plays, motions, and line up in stack formations. This way they don't get to jam you. We didn't do much of that. We made it very easy for the defenders.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah they got good separation. Hilton was at 83 yards before he came out.

Moncrief was eating all day. And once again, it looks like no one can cover Dorsett, but again they "saved" him. AJ was the one who couldn't beat coverage or catch for that matter.

The Buffalo DBs made a few plays but it was clear they were overmatched, but we didn't take advantage of that. They were sitting on the routes and we didn't take advantage. That's on coaching.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When facing a tough man-to-man defense, let's not just line up and let them get their hands on the receivers. Let's use pick plays, motions, and line up in stack formations. This way they don't get to jam you. We didn't do much of that. We made it very easy for the defenders.

to often we make it easy to defend us

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

 

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable.  In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times

This is the truth.  Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more.  Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems.  Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game.  In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped.  This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

Link to post
Share on other sites

If i remember correctly, those cramps didnt start until the 3rd quarter.... we ran it a total of 7 times before halftime. (6 carries by Gore and 1 by Robinson)

 

I don't know......   only sharing what I read some place.....

 

Did we abandon the run too soon?    Ab-so-lute-ly.

 

But I think the chances we didn't use Gore as much as we planned for any reason OTHER THAN cramps is tiny,  bordering on zero.

 

Put another way,  I don't see Pep calling for Robinson or Varga because he thought they were better than a healthy Frank Gore.

 

I'd have serious,  serious questions if that turns out to be the case......

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought it had more to do with the offensive playcalling. Expecting Luck to complete medium to large yardage pass plays all day against an aggressive, blitzing defense was just dumb. Like others have said, I guess we don't know if Luck was just trying to do too much and going for the homerun play when he had safer options, but this isn't the first time this has happened with this offense since Pep has been here. I certainly didn't see many safe, easy throws available on the television screen.

 

Why the offense abandoned the run so early and why there were no short, easy throws or check downs at any point in this game against such an aggressive defense is beyond mystifying. Our offense was completely predictable and the Bills defense adjusted and blanketed our receivers. The result was about what you would expect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know......   only sharing what I read some place.....

 

Did we abandon the run too soon?    Ab-so-lute-ly.

 

But I think the chances we didn't use Gore as much as we planned for any reason OTHER THAN cramps is tiny,  bordering on zero.

 

Put another way,  I don't see Pep calling for Robinson or Varga because he thought they were better than a healthy Frank Gore.

 

I'd have serious,  serious questions if that turns out to be the case......

 

Pep's MO has been to abandon the run early for unexplainable reasons, so I wouldn't be so sure that cramps are the reason. Plus, Gore didn't exit the game with cramps until the 3rd QRT. They gave up on the run in the first.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Pep's MO has been to abandon the run early for unexplainable reasons, so I wouldn't be so sure that cramps are the reason. Plus, Gore didn't exit the game with cramps until the 3rd QRT. They gave up on the run in the first.

 

Two different issues.

 

Abandoning the run is one.

 

The lack of use of Frank Gore is the other.

 

Yes,  we gave up on the run WAY too soon.

 

I seriously doubt we gave up Gore for any other reason than him not being 100%.

 

What would be the reason?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable. In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times. If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday. 49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.

I noticed that myself luck always throw to the person not to where they will catch it in stride.. He really needs to work on that and also take more control of the offense I'm sure he sees the blitz he needs to change the play into quicker passes with hot routes and option routes for receivers if they notice something..like Edelman on the pats he isn't asked to run specific routes he has option routes depending on how the defense is playing him our receivers have 1 route to run no options
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the truth. Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more. Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems. Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game. In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped. This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

Dorsett never got a chance to play offense till the 4th qtr and instantly became a target catching two passes for 1 yard shy of moncriefs 5-6 catches
Link to post
Share on other sites

If T.Y. and Dorsett can't get vertical seperation then they are almost useless because of their other physical limitations. They have to do better.

Ty was EATING those corners he was the only 1 for like two separate drives alone..Dorsett only played in the 4th qtr so yeah can't tell them to do better when one leaves hurt and the coaches favor vets over the rookie who obviously gets more seperation than moncrief
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought it had more to do with the offensive playcalling. Expecting Luck to complete medium to large yardage pass plays all day against an aggressive, blitzing defense was just dumb. Like others have said, I guess we don't know if Luck was just trying to do too much and going for the homerun play when he had safer options, but this isn't the first time this has happened with this offense since Pep has been here. I certainly didn't see many safe, easy throws available on the television screen.

Why the offense abandoned the run so early and why there were no short, easy throws or check downs at any point in this game against such an aggressive defense is beyond mystifying. Our offense was completely predictable and the Bills defense adjusted and blanketed our receivers. The result was about what you would expect.

coaches
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the truth.  Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more.  Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems.  Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game.  In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped.  This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

dorsett was targeted three times and had two catches for 45 yards.  other than ty he was the one WR to play a decent game yesterday, not counting his Special teams fumbles.   also landon collins, eddie goldman and malcom brown have not done anything special to this point either.

 

i agree about AJ he was bad and might have to give up snaps to dorsett and moncrief(who wasnt great himself despite a TD yesterday)

Link to post
Share on other sites

...or was it just my imagination?

 

I was at the game and it sure looked to me like the receivers were getting open by a half yard if that and even when they caught the ball the defenders were closing almost instantly.  Even Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him.

 

Was it out-of-their-minds play by the Bills secondary, bad play by the receivers, bad playcalling by the O?

 

"Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him".......The guy.....is Ronald Darby. The guy,,,,,is an ex-track & field star who can run with almost anybody......who should've been drafted by the Colts

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ty was EATING those corners he was the only 1 for like two separate drives alone..Dorsett only played in the 4th qtr so yeah can't tell them to do better when one leaves hurt and the coaches favor vets over the rookie who obviously gets more seperation than moncrief

the other posters may think we are crazy/stupid but its pretty clear that dorsett is better than moncrief and AJ at this point

Link to post
Share on other sites

Two different issues.

Abandoning the run is one.

The lack of use of Frank Gore is the other.

Yes, we gave up on the run WAY too soon.

I seriously doubt we gave up Gore for any other reason than him not being 100%.

What would be the reason?

It's essentially the same issue. Even with a stud like Gore, Pep is ready to abandon the run after one drive. When you abandon the run, you're giving up on Gore.

What's the reason? I don't know, ask Pep. He's the one who has a propensity to abandon the run way too early.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When facing a tough man-to-man defense, let's not just line up and let them get their hands on the receivers. Let's use pick plays, motions, and line up in stack formations. This way they don't get to jam you. We didn't do much of that. We made it very easy for the defenders.

To corroborate what I was saying earlier:

 

Per PFF:

– The real struggle for the Colts came against Buffalo’s coverage that blanketed their receivers for much of the afternoon and put a lot of pressure on Luck to be pinpoint accurate—which he certainly was not. The Colts scheme also relied heavily on isolation routes, hoping for their wide receivers to simply beat their man in coverage, rather than scheming up plays that make it difficult to play man coverage. WR T.Y. Hilton still came away with a nice +2.0 grade, but newcomer Andre Johnson posted ac2.1 grade after catching four of his 10 targets for only 24 yards.

Link to post
Share on other sites

the other posters may think we are crazy/stupid but its pretty clear that dorsett is better than moncrief and AJ at this point

i wouldn't say Aj but stop same thing happened with nicks how we utilized our big recievers..luck throws jump balls to fleener you have to treat Andre the same that's how he plays not giving him excuses for not showing up tho but that is his game jumping up and muscling the ball away from the defender.. That being said too much hate on the players especially Dorsett cuz his muffed punts the coaching and play calling was just as equal because this game shouldn't have been played that way from the first to third qtr with no adjustments
Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable. In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times. If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday. 49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.

Exactly. One of my few criticisms of Luck. He doesn't throw where the receiver is going to be (except on long bombs), he throws to where they are. Kinda gives the cbs an advantage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the truth.  Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more.  Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems.  Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game.  In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped.  This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

Hold up dorsett got separation when he was in his problem was on kick returns. Also they should have used dorsett earlier in the game. If Hilton dorsett and moncrief had been on the field at the same time I belive we would have fared better. Also more runs by gore and varga.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dorsett never got a chance to play offense till the 4th qtr and instantly became a target catching two passes for 1 yard shy of moncriefs 5-6 catches that being said if he was in from 1st qtr-4th along with Hilton in the first half you would be changing this input..blame the coaches on not playing the best players they have that's been an issue since pagano got here

 

The Bills played an entirely different defense in the 2nd half. They let up on the coverage to keep things inside and the clock moving. I wouldn't put too much faith in not playing Dorsett being the reason they couldn't score.

Edited by 21isSuperman
Link to post
Share on other sites

Dorsett never got a chance to play offense till the 4th qtr and instantly became a target catching two passes for 1 yard shy of moncriefs 5-6 catches that being said if he was in from 1st qtr-4th along with Hilton in the first half you would be changing this input..blame the coaches on not playing the best players they have that's been an issue since pagano got here

I would have loved to see Dorsett in the first half too.  By the 4th quarter, the Bills knew they had wrapped up the game and their defense looked less aggressive, in my opinion.  Dorsett is a talented player, but not what we need, especially if our coaches don't know how to use their players

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have loved to see Dorsett in the first half too. By the 4th quarter, the Bills knew they had wrapped up the game and their defense looked less aggressive, in my opinion. Dorsett is a talented player, but not what we need, especially if our coaches don't know how to use their players

your last sentence if that's the case why draft anyone it's the coaching they did the same thing hiltons first year he was better than DHB they kept him in..every back we had was better than T Rich...Wayne last year hurt badly we kept him in rather than bringing moncrief up to speed asap..took them forever to get Landry off the field and that's only cuz he got hurt...the coaches simply favor vets who do nothing over people who have the talent to get it done
Link to post
Share on other sites

Right.  On the pass to TY that was intercepted, if Luck threw a good pass, it would have been a TD.  He was rushed and threw off his back foot.

 

I'm going to watch some of the O line play later today.  I don't think they did that bad in pass protection for most of the game.

 

That first drive was going great until we self destructed.

 

Please report your findings. Im curious what you see. thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

...or was it just my imagination?

 

I was at the game and it sure looked to me like the receivers were getting open by a half yard if that and even when they caught the ball the defenders were closing almost instantly.  Even Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him.

 

Was it out-of-their-minds play by the Bills secondary, bad play by the receivers, bad playcalling by the O?

I watch in a sports bar with no volume (not in Indy) was it windy and if so, how bad?  I'm just curious because the kicks in the 1st and third seemed decidedly shorter than in 2 and 4.  If so, I also thought the pick Andrew threw may have it a wall.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • They were never going to pick Lamar in 2018   Karl Joseph is a bench player and Fitzpatrick is much better than him anyways   Not sure what this post is getting after
    • They are likely kicking the can down the road, and the negative consequence is higher cap numbers for those players in future seasons, and greater cap penalties to move on from those players in future seasons. The thing is there's no much else they can do. they're set to be nearly $70m over the cap in 2021, and other than these restructures, they would not be able to get under the cap by the start of the new league year. They would have to cut or trade all of their highly paid players.
    • I feel the hype about Carl Lawson is from a combination of people who haven't really watched him play, and who overrate "pressures" by assuming that all pressures are equally disruptive.    Lawson is a tough, physical, high effort guy, he tackles well, plays the run reasonably well, he has decent size, and he would fit nicely as a DE for us. He's not a dynamic pass rusher, and I don't think he ever would be a dynamic pass rusher.   He has some quickness and speed, good speed to power, but he's not the kind of explosive pass rusher that blows up the other team's blocking schemes. He has below average bend and closing speed, and he takes a lot of steps, which explains his tragically poor three cone. He also has below average length, and gets neutralized by good blockers. This is all obvious on his tape, it was obvious on his college tape, and it's why he went in the 4th round.   TomDiggs mentioned Lawson's knockdowns/hits and hurries. PFF recorded six edge rushers with at least QB 15 hits; despite the fact that Lawson had 24 hits, he only had five sacks, which is the least sacks among those six players. In fact, there were ten edges with fewer than 15 QB hits, but with at least ten sacks. PFF has 24 edges with at least 30 pressures; Lawson had 34 hurries, but was tied for fifth fewest sacks among those 24 players. In fact, there were five edges with fewer hurries than Lawson, but at least ten sacks.   My point is that QB hits and pressures only show a player that manages to get near the QB at some point during the play. Without context, they don't necessarily show a player that makes a definite impact on the play. That's why I value PFF's pass rush productivity (PRP) stat, because sacks are weighted more heavily than hits and pressures. And that makes sense because a sack ends the play. A QB can be pressured, even hit, and still make a positive play. Recognizing a sack as nearly always a negative play for the offense, PRP shows the difference between a guy who gets near the QB, and a pass rusher who makes plays for the defense. Sometimes the overlap is not as great as you might think.   Lawson's PRP was 8.5, tied for #18, well separated from guys like Bosa (10.6) and Watt (9.7). In general, a player with a bunch of total pressures, but low sack numbers, like Lawson, is a guy who gets a bunch of pass rush snaps but doesn't have the length, bend and closing speed to get home often enough. This is why guys like Trey Hendrickson and Leonard Floyd can have a third fewer total pressures, but twice as many sacks as Lawson (Hendrickson also had 80 fewer pass rush snaps). And Lawson gets a ton of pass rush snaps because he plays for a bad team with no other good edge rushers, so as long as he's healthy he'll have a lot of pressures, but he'll probably never be a big sack guy.   He's Trey Flowers. Better 40, same agility, not as long, mid level edge rusher who is well rounded and a good guy to have on your team, but not a dominant pass rusher. I can't see offering him $14m/year to not sack the QB. Any projection that has him as a big time sack guy is unrealistic, IMO.
    • It's nice to see Pittman, Smith and Okereke get some love.
    • Did I misread your post?   Did you not say you were in favor of moving Nelson to LT?   That if we’re going to pay him top dollar, it would be better to do it with him as our LT instead of at LG?    That wasn’t you?    I’m sorry, I thought that’s what I responded to.... 
  • Members

    • Colt Overseas

      Colt Overseas 559

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • kornstar

      kornstar 137

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • bestQBever

      bestQBever 584

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • tvturner

      tvturner 291

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Solon

      Solon 94

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • fanoftheteam

      fanoftheteam 0

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • life long

      life long 188

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • SteelCityColt

      SteelCityColt 4,469

      Moderators
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...