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DalTXColtsFan

Were the receivers not getting separation...

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...or was it just my imagination?

 

I was at the game and it sure looked to me like the receivers were getting open by a half yard if that and even when they caught the ball the defenders were closing almost instantly.  Even Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him.

 

Was it out-of-their-minds play by the Bills secondary, bad play by the receivers, bad playcalling by the O?

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Our guys were covered pretty well and windows were tight. I thought the refs let the receivers and CBs play with lots of interference and weren't calling it. Which can be good and bad.

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From what I remember seeing it was a combination of Luck missing on a lot of throws which forced the receivers to slow down to adjust to the ball and let the defenders close the gap, or it was Luck having to throw early and the routes not be able to develop.  We had some luck with screen passes early but abandoned them for the vertical attack which just wasn't working....

 

Rough day overall...

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From what I remember seeing it was a combination of Luck missing on a lot of throws which forced the receivers to slow down to adjust to the ball and let the defenders close the gap, or it was Luck having to throw early and the routes not be able to develop.  We had some luck with screen passes early but abandoned them for the vertical attack which just wasn't working....

 

Rough day overall...

 

Right.  On the pass to TY that was intercepted, if Luck threw a good pass, it would have been a TD.  He was rushed and threw off his back foot.

 

I'm going to watch some of the O line play later today.  I don't think they did that bad in pass protection for most of the game.

 

That first drive was going great until we self destructed.

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Right.  On the pass to TY that was intercepted, if Luck threw a good pass, it would have been a TD.  He was rushed and threw off his back foot.

 

I'm going to watch some of the O line play later today.  I don't think they did that bad in pass protection for most of the game.

 

That first drive was going great until we self destructed.

 

From what I recall, the O-line actually did a decent enough job given the amount of pressure that was coming.  I remember several plays where Luck rushed a throw when he didn't have to and it was incomplete.  I would say the worse part of the O-line were the penalties that killed drives.  We can't really say they didn't run block well because we didn't really try to run it too much...

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The issue is that we were one-dimensional.  The Bill's CBs were in tight, tight coverage because they were winning at the line of scrimmage.  There were a few more windows in the 2nd half but by then the run game was non-existent.%3

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It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

 

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable.  In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times.  If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday.  49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.  

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Bills D is just tough. They had our guys locked up. I think that's why we saw Andrew running alot more than usual.

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It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

 

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable.  In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times.  If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday.  49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.  

I agree, fire pep, why get a top rb and not use him? also why not some quick passes to the tight ends or some screen passes? fire pep

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When facing a tough man-to-man defense, let's not just line up and let them get their hands on the receivers. Let's use pick plays, motions, and line up in stack formations. This way they don't get to jam you. We didn't do much of that. We made it very easy for the defenders.

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Nah they got good separation. Hilton was at 83 yards before he came out.

Moncrief was eating all day. And once again, it looks like no one can cover Dorsett, but again they "saved" him. AJ was the one who couldn't beat coverage or catch for that matter.

The Buffalo DBs made a few plays but it was clear they were overmatched, but we didn't take advantage of that. They were sitting on the routes and we didn't take advantage. That's on coaching.

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When facing a tough man-to-man defense, let's not just line up and let them get their hands on the receivers. Let's use pick plays, motions, and line up in stack formations. This way they don't get to jam you. We didn't do much of that. We made it very easy for the defenders.

to often we make it easy to defend us

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I agree, fire pep, why get a top rb and not use him? also why not some quick passes to the tight ends or some screen passes? fire pep

 

 

Gore didn't play much because he was suffering leg cramps. 

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It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

 

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable.  In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times

This is the truth.  Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more.  Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems.  Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game.  In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped.  This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

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If T.Y. and Dorsett can't get vertical seperation then they are almost useless because of their other physical limitations. They have to do better.

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Gore didn't play much because he was suffering leg cramps. 

If i remember correctly, those cramps didnt start until the 3rd quarter.... we ran it a total of 7 times before halftime. (6 carries by Gore and 1 by Robinson)

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If i remember correctly, those cramps didnt start until the 3rd quarter.... we ran it a total of 7 times before halftime. (6 carries by Gore and 1 by Robinson)

 

I don't know......   only sharing what I read some place.....

 

Did we abandon the run too soon?    Ab-so-lute-ly.

 

But I think the chances we didn't use Gore as much as we planned for any reason OTHER THAN cramps is tiny,  bordering on zero.

 

Put another way,  I don't see Pep calling for Robinson or Varga because he thought they were better than a healthy Frank Gore.

 

I'd have serious,  serious questions if that turns out to be the case......

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Thought it had more to do with the offensive playcalling. Expecting Luck to complete medium to large yardage pass plays all day against an aggressive, blitzing defense was just dumb. Like others have said, I guess we don't know if Luck was just trying to do too much and going for the homerun play when he had safer options, but this isn't the first time this has happened with this offense since Pep has been here. I certainly didn't see many safe, easy throws available on the television screen.

 

Why the offense abandoned the run so early and why there were no short, easy throws or check downs at any point in this game against such an aggressive defense is beyond mystifying. Our offense was completely predictable and the Bills defense adjusted and blanketed our receivers. The result was about what you would expect.

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I don't know......   only sharing what I read some place.....

 

Did we abandon the run too soon?    Ab-so-lute-ly.

 

But I think the chances we didn't use Gore as much as we planned for any reason OTHER THAN cramps is tiny,  bordering on zero.

 

Put another way,  I don't see Pep calling for Robinson or Varga because he thought they were better than a healthy Frank Gore.

 

I'd have serious,  serious questions if that turns out to be the case......

 

Pep's MO has been to abandon the run early for unexplainable reasons, so I wouldn't be so sure that cramps are the reason. Plus, Gore didn't exit the game with cramps until the 3rd QRT. They gave up on the run in the first.

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Pep's MO has been to abandon the run early for unexplainable reasons, so I wouldn't be so sure that cramps are the reason. Plus, Gore didn't exit the game with cramps until the 3rd QRT. They gave up on the run in the first.

 

Two different issues.

 

Abandoning the run is one.

 

The lack of use of Frank Gore is the other.

 

Yes,  we gave up on the run WAY too soon.

 

I seriously doubt we gave up Gore for any other reason than him not being 100%.

 

What would be the reason?

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It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable. In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times. If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday. 49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.

I noticed that myself luck always throw to the person not to where they will catch it in stride.. He really needs to work on that and also take more control of the offense I'm sure he sees the blitz he needs to change the play into quicker passes with hot routes and option routes for receivers if they notice something..like Edelman on the pats he isn't asked to run specific routes he has option routes depending on how the defense is playing him our receivers have 1 route to run no options

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This is the truth. Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more. Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems. Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game. In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped. This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

Dorsett never got a chance to play offense till the 4th qtr and instantly became a target catching two passes for 1 yard shy of moncriefs 5-6 catches

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If T.Y. and Dorsett can't get vertical seperation then they are almost useless because of their other physical limitations. They have to do better.

Ty was EATING those corners he was the only 1 for like two separate drives alone..Dorsett only played in the 4th qtr so yeah can't tell them to do better when one leaves hurt and the coaches favor vets over the rookie who obviously gets more seperation than moncrief

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Thought it had more to do with the offensive playcalling. Expecting Luck to complete medium to large yardage pass plays all day against an aggressive, blitzing defense was just dumb. Like others have said, I guess we don't know if Luck was just trying to do too much and going for the homerun play when he had safer options, but this isn't the first time this has happened with this offense since Pep has been here. I certainly didn't see many safe, easy throws available on the television screen.

Why the offense abandoned the run so early and why there were no short, easy throws or check downs at any point in this game against such an aggressive defense is beyond mystifying. Our offense was completely predictable and the Bills defense adjusted and blanketed our receivers. The result was about what you would expect.

coaches

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This is the truth.  Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more.  Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems.  Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game.  In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped.  This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

dorsett was targeted three times and had two catches for 45 yards.  other than ty he was the one WR to play a decent game yesterday, not counting his Special teams fumbles.   also landon collins, eddie goldman and malcom brown have not done anything special to this point either.

 

i agree about AJ he was bad and might have to give up snaps to dorsett and moncrief(who wasnt great himself despite a TD yesterday)

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...or was it just my imagination?

 

I was at the game and it sure looked to me like the receivers were getting open by a half yard if that and even when they caught the ball the defenders were closing almost instantly.  Even Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him.

 

Was it out-of-their-minds play by the Bills secondary, bad play by the receivers, bad playcalling by the O?

 

"Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him".......The guy.....is Ronald Darby. The guy,,,,,is an ex-track & field star who can run with almost anybody......who should've been drafted by the Colts

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Ty was EATING those corners he was the only 1 for like two separate drives alone..Dorsett only played in the 4th qtr so yeah can't tell them to do better when one leaves hurt and the coaches favor vets over the rookie who obviously gets more seperation than moncrief

the other posters may think we are crazy/stupid but its pretty clear that dorsett is better than moncrief and AJ at this point

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Two different issues.

Abandoning the run is one.

The lack of use of Frank Gore is the other.

Yes, we gave up on the run WAY too soon.

I seriously doubt we gave up Gore for any other reason than him not being 100%.

What would be the reason?

It's essentially the same issue. Even with a stud like Gore, Pep is ready to abandon the run after one drive. When you abandon the run, you're giving up on Gore.

What's the reason? I don't know, ask Pep. He's the one who has a propensity to abandon the run way too early.

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When facing a tough man-to-man defense, let's not just line up and let them get their hands on the receivers. Let's use pick plays, motions, and line up in stack formations. This way they don't get to jam you. We didn't do much of that. We made it very easy for the defenders.

To corroborate what I was saying earlier:

 

Per PFF:

– The real struggle for the Colts came against Buffalo’s coverage that blanketed their receivers for much of the afternoon and put a lot of pressure on Luck to be pinpoint accurate—which he certainly was not. The Colts scheme also relied heavily on isolation routes, hoping for their wide receivers to simply beat their man in coverage, rather than scheming up plays that make it difficult to play man coverage. WR T.Y. Hilton still came away with a nice +2.0 grade, but newcomer Andre Johnson posted ac2.1 grade after catching four of his 10 targets for only 24 yards.

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the other posters may think we are crazy/stupid but its pretty clear that dorsett is better than moncrief and AJ at this point

i wouldn't say Aj but stop same thing happened with nicks how we utilized our big recievers..luck throws jump balls to fleener you have to treat Andre the same that's how he plays not giving him excuses for not showing up tho but that is his game jumping up and muscling the ball away from the defender.. That being said too much hate on the players especially Dorsett cuz his muffed punts the coaching and play calling was just as equal because this game shouldn't have been played that way from the first to third qtr with no adjustments

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It was a combination of several issues:

  • That is one thing an aggressive blitz package does, the WRs don't have time to get very deep or very far into their routes.
  • The Bills CBs were playing well.
  • Luck not really anticipating where the receiver is going to be but waiting for them to get there before he throws the ball. (again)
  • No threat of the running game so the Bills DBs focused soley on the receivers (again)
  • Poor offensive line scheme (again)

I know this is a thread about WRs but as someone stated you need some balance on offense and to not be predictable. In the offseason the Colts sign a guy like Frank Gore... an 1100 + yard rusher for what the past 7 years, 8 years... and you give him the ball 8 freakin' times.... 8 times. If I were the head coach, I would be firing the OC on the plane ride home yesterday. 49 throws and Gore gets the ball 8 times.

Exactly. One of my few criticisms of Luck. He doesn't throw where the receiver is going to be (except on long bombs), he throws to where they are. Kinda gives the cbs an advantage.

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This is the truth.  Gore even said after the game how they should have been running the ball more.  Another thing to consider: after the draft, people were saying Dorsett was a great pick because our WRs couldn't get any separation in the Pats game, and Dorsett (along with Andre Johnson) would help alleviate those problems.  Neither one of them did anything to help out passing game.  In fact, both guys hurt the team more than they helped.  This isn't to say that Dorsett isn't a talented player, but to show once again that it was a terrible draft pick

Hold up dorsett got separation when he was in his problem was on kick returns. Also they should have used dorsett earlier in the game. If Hilton dorsett and moncrief had been on the field at the same time I belive we would have fared better. Also more runs by gore and varga.

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Dorsett never got a chance to play offense till the 4th qtr and instantly became a target catching two passes for 1 yard shy of moncriefs 5-6 catches that being said if he was in from 1st qtr-4th along with Hilton in the first half you would be changing this input..blame the coaches on not playing the best players they have that's been an issue since pagano got here

 

The Bills played an entirely different defense in the 2nd half. They let up on the coverage to keep things inside and the clock moving. I wouldn't put too much faith in not playing Dorsett being the reason they couldn't score.

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Dorsett never got a chance to play offense till the 4th qtr and instantly became a target catching two passes for 1 yard shy of moncriefs 5-6 catches that being said if he was in from 1st qtr-4th along with Hilton in the first half you would be changing this input..blame the coaches on not playing the best players they have that's been an issue since pagano got here

I would have loved to see Dorsett in the first half too.  By the 4th quarter, the Bills knew they had wrapped up the game and their defense looked less aggressive, in my opinion.  Dorsett is a talented player, but not what we need, especially if our coaches don't know how to use their players

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I would have loved to see Dorsett in the first half too. By the 4th quarter, the Bills knew they had wrapped up the game and their defense looked less aggressive, in my opinion. Dorsett is a talented player, but not what we need, especially if our coaches don't know how to use their players

your last sentence if that's the case why draft anyone it's the coaching they did the same thing hiltons first year he was better than DHB they kept him in..every back we had was better than T Rich...Wayne last year hurt badly we kept him in rather than bringing moncrief up to speed asap..took them forever to get Landry off the field and that's only cuz he got hurt...the coaches simply favor vets who do nothing over people who have the talent to get it done

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Right.  On the pass to TY that was intercepted, if Luck threw a good pass, it would have been a TD.  He was rushed and threw off his back foot.

 

I'm going to watch some of the O line play later today.  I don't think they did that bad in pass protection for most of the game.

 

That first drive was going great until we self destructed.

 

Please report your findings. Im curious what you see. thanks.

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...or was it just my imagination?

 

I was at the game and it sure looked to me like the receivers were getting open by a half yard if that and even when they caught the ball the defenders were closing almost instantly.  Even Hilton was having trouble beating the guy across the line from him.

 

Was it out-of-their-minds play by the Bills secondary, bad play by the receivers, bad playcalling by the O?

I watch in a sports bar with no volume (not in Indy) was it windy and if so, how bad?  I'm just curious because the kicks in the 1st and third seemed decidedly shorter than in 2 and 4.  If so, I also thought the pick Andrew threw may have it a wall.

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