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Poll time: Fire a Coach Edition


The Peytonator

Who should get the axe first?  

151 members have voted

  1. 1. Assuming you're only allowed to pick one, which member of management would you like to see fired and why?

    • Grigson
      47
    • Pagano
      39
    • Hamilton
      51
    • Manusky
      14


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Fleener and Allen are just underutilized in this offense. Not enough effort to feed them the ball but they are both top 10 TEs when used, and I would say they're the best TE duo since Gronk and Hernandez.

So when you add it all up you've got

-Fleener

-Allen

-Davis

-Hilton

4 very good players. And we might be able to add Anderson and Mewhort to that list soon. Don't get me wrong he's had some notable misses but he brought over the best CB in the game, a top 10 receiver, and two top TEs. You could do better, but you could certainly do a lot worse than what Grigson has done.

Fleener is not a top 10 TE

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but this is not just One game, it is the first game of the season that is true, but this is a common theme in 3 years, showing up to games unpreparred, and getting out coached, im not ready to fire Pagano today, but Pep has to go now. dont wait. Pagano well I hate firing a Coach so early, but he is to concerned being best friends then coaching, his game plans are the wrost and it is getting old seeing them implemented

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Keeping guys just because the Steelers have kept guys isn't much of a plan.

Keeping guys who have won 11 regular season games, all three years, is a very good idea.

Washington averages a new coach every 2 years. How has that worked out for them?. We need to stick to what we have and let them grow. It gives us a better chance of long-term success.

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Grigson. . .

 

Pep last year just led us to the #3 offense in the league.  Manuski bottled up LeSean Mcoy.

 

But it's Grigson who's failed to fix the offensive line.

 

It's Grigson that has bungled every 1st round pick since Andrew Luck was selected.

 

It's Grigson who's made multiple free agent mistakes.  

 

The points he's gotten from bringing in Davis for a 2nd rounder, drafting Hilton, and for signing Walden are stretching really thin.  You get no points for selecting Andrew Luck over RG3.  I think all 31 other teams would have taken Luck over RG3 including Washington.  

 

Every time I investigate other team's forums as to what they think about our team there is 1 thing that keeps getting said by everyone.  And it's that Luck is carrying a team in a weak division with very little talent outside of Hilton and Davis.  That's on Grigson.   

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Fleener and Allen are just underutilized in this offense. Not enough effort to feed them the ball but they are both top 10 TEs when used, and I would say they're the best TE duo since Gronk and Hernandez.

So when you add it all up you've got

-Fleener

-Allen

-Davis

-Hilton

4 very good players. And we might be able to add Anderson and Mewhort to that list soon. Don't get me wrong he's had some notable misses but he brought over the best CB in the game, a top 10 receiver, and two top TEs. You could do better, but you could certainly do a lot worse than what Grigson has done.

 

He has done nothing on the defensive side of the ball... or o-line..  His first year as GM was great but after that much of nothing.

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He has done nothing on the defensive side of the ball... or o-line.. His first year as GM was great but after that much of nothing.

In the draft? Not really except for this past draft with Smith, Anderson, Parry, Geathers, and Herrera.

But in FA he also brought in Cory Redding, who was good for a few seasons. Not to mention Walden has outplayed his contract.

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I voted Grigson because though he's had 2 good drafts out of 4, he missed badly on the other two and his FA signing have been awful most of the time.  Everything is riding on this year's batch, but I do like that we tossed the under performing vets for some high performing/higher ceiling rookies.  I loved Anderson and Parry all Pre-Season and I hope they'll become two long term Colts starters we can keep building around.  

 

I would like to see a GM actually draft to build a top 10 defense and a top 10 o-line.  Even if our skill players on O are average, with Luck and the D and O-Line, we'll be Super Bowl bound.  

 

I like Pep's philosophy a lot, power run with a top tier QB, what a great combo that would be.  If you fire Pagano, the others go too.. so it is really Grigs, Pagano or we go 14-2 and look good in every playoff game this year with no more blowouts (as I consider Buffalo a TOTAL blowout).  

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It's not really time to panic but I wonder if Pagano is the guy that can take us to the next level? As in the SB. He reminds me a lot of Dungy as in very laid back, nice guy/players Coach and we seem to not be prepared for big road games. We lose to the Good teams on the road like the Steelers and Pats last season, now the Bills. Same thing happened with Dungy. We always relied on Peyton for almost everything, now we are doing the same thing with Luck. If we aren't at least 5-3 by the midway point something has to change.

Edited by 21isSuperman
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In the draft? Not really except for this past draft with Smith, Anderson, Parry, Geathers, and Herrera.

But in FA he also brought in Cory Redding, who was good for a few seasons. Not to mention Walden has outplayed his contract.

  Cant really count this draft yet.. however, anderson and parry looks great.  I expect geathers take over at saftey soon... Havent seen enough from smith and herrera was a preseason stud but still didnt make the roster so I dont know what to think of that...

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They all have warts...

Grigson:

For spending Irsay's millions on 5 to 7 mediocre FAs every year who only give upgrades from 4-out-of-10 to 6-out-of-10 instead of spending it ALL on 2 or 3 impact players who make a real difference.

For not drafting O-line and D-line in rounds 1 and 2 for a few years in a row to get those problems fixed once and for all.

For not leaving behind his dumpster-diving habits from his scout days and spending the time trying to figure out how to get top impact guys to Indy.

 

Pagano:

For making himself the players' friend and cheerleader instead of their boss and game leader, even feared.

For his inability to have his team prepared and motivated for each opponent each week...he seems to assume that a good practice will automatically lead to a motivated, prepared team.

For his inability to turn around the bad games with a passionate kick-a$$ speech or put the fear-of-Gawd into the slackers.

For his dispassionate, lost, deer-in-the-headlights look on the sidelines in so many, many games.

 

Hamilton:

For his vanilla, unimaginative playcalling that borders on incompetent for a NFL OC.

For his inability to respond to adverse conditions in the game and just letting Andrew go out and 'wing it'.

For his inabilty to make successful in-game adjustments in any game that is going poorly...just not a NFL OC.

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Full Disclosure: I am a Patriots fan.

With that out of the way I just wanted to chime in that Grigson is in my opinion a terrible GM. The fact that the Patriots ran all over the Colts not once but twice, including once with Jonas Grey who last I checked isn't even on an NFL roster, and yet Grigson drafted a WR #1 is remarkable. In addition, instead of pursuing one of the top DL in FA Grigson signs aging Frank Gore and Andre Johnson!? As a Pats fan I would love to see Grigson remain GM but the guy is a fantasy football GM imho

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Keeping guys who have won 11 regular season games, all three years, is a very good idea.

Washington averages a new coach every 2 years. How has that worked out for them?. We need to stick to what we have and let them grow. It gives us a better chance of long-term success.

Yes, because I was advocating hiring a new coach every two years. Keeping a guy just to keep a guy doesn't guarantee long term success. The Chicago Bulls fired Doug Collins after he made the conference finals in his 3rd year.....the rest is history. It's about finding the right guy and hanging on to him.

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Full Disclosure: I am a Patriots fan.

With that out of the way I just wanted to chime in that Grigson is in my opinion a terrible GM. The fact that the Patriots ran all over the Colts not once but twice, including once with Jonas Grey who last I checked isn't even on an NFL roster, and yet Grigson drafted a WR #1 is remarkable. In addition, instead of pursuing one of the top DL in FA Grigson signs aging Frank Gore and Andre Johnson!? As a Pats fan I would love to see Grigson remain GM but the guy is a fantasy football GM imho

Never would have guessed a patriots fan would only have negative things to say about the Colts.

Who would have thunk it?

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Yes, because I was advocating hiring a new coach every two years. Keeping a guy just to keep a guy doesn't guarantee long term success. The Chicago Bulls fired Doug Collins after he made the conference finals in his 3rd year.....the rest is history. It's about finding the right guy and hanging on to him.

Replacing a coach also does not guarantee long-term success.

How is a team supposed to know if it has the right guy without giving the guy an opportunity?

Pagano has won 11 games in each of his first 3 seasons and took the Colts to the playoffs in all three seasons. Think the Browns would be happy with that?

Teams that want to lose year in and year out will continue to replace its head coach.

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Replacing a coach also does not guarantee long-term success.

How is a team supposed to know if it has the right guy without giving the guy an opportunity?

Pagano has won 11 games in each of his first 3 seasons and took the Colts to the playoffs in all three seasons. Think the Browns would be happy with that?

Teams that want to lose year in and year out will continue to replace its head coach.

Oh good god, who wants to replace the coach every other year? Nobody has said that, so stop with the fake argument. In case you didn't know, this is year 4 with Pagano. It's not that Chuck is horrible, but I don't think he is a championship level coach. When you have an elite level QB and pair him with a elite coach your team has a shot at greatness.

Were you upset when Irsay replaced Mora with Dungy?

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Doing this after game #1 is toxic and irresponsible if you're really a fan of the team.  I say complain away but this is what Philly fan and Jet fan does.  I'll say again, I'm as frustrated with things as the next guy but this is just dumb.

Believing it has to do with one game is dumb

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Oh good god, who wants to replace the coach every other year? Nobody has said that, so stop with the fake argument. In case you didn't know, this is year 4 with Pagano. It's not that Chuck is horrible, but I don't think he is a championship level coach. When you have an elite level QB and pair him with a elite coach your team has a shot at greatness.

Were you upset when Irsay replaced Mora with Dungy?

I will answer the latter first. I believe it was a bad move to fire Mora. Jim took the blame for not having the right players who fit Fangio's system. Remember Chad Bradtzke dropping into coverage? Jim Mora was a damn good coach. Sure he blew his top a few times in press conferences, and unfortunately that's what most people will remember about him.

After Mora was fired, Dungy was a no brainer. Every NFL fan knew Dungy was coming to Indy before it was announced. But Dungy never could consistently establish his defense in Indy. Some of that had to do with rule changes, but mostly it had to do with college quarterbacks more NFL ready.

Oddly enough our offense got us to the playoffs, but our defense carried us through the playoffs. Namely Bob Sanders. Without him, our Colts would not have a ring.

What seemed like a perfect fit; Dungy and the Colts, actually needed a lot of luck to win a Superbowl.

I believe if we would have stuck it out with Mora, and got the right players for him, then we would have won a Superbowl much sooner and most likely won multiple titles.

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Full Disclosure: I am a Patriots fan.

With that out of the way I just wanted to chime in that Grigson is in my opinion a terrible GM. The fact that the Patriots ran all over the Colts not once but twice, including once with Jonas Grey who last I checked isn't even on an NFL roster, and yet Grigson drafted a WR #1 is remarkable. In addition, instead of pursuing one of the top DL in FA Grigson signs aging Frank Gore and Andre Johnson!? As a Pats fan I would love to see Grigson remain GM but the guy is a fantasy football GM imho

:facepalm:

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I will answer the latter first. I believe it was a bad move to fire Mora. Jim took the blame for not having the right players who fit Fangio's system. Remember Chad Bradtzke dropping into coverage? Jim Mora was a damn good coach. Sure he blew his top a few times in press conferences, and unfortunately that's what most people will remember about him.

After Mora was fired, Dungy was a no brainer. Every NFL fan knew Dungy was coming to Indy before it was announced. But Dungy never could consistently establish his defense in Indy. Some of that had to do with rule changes, but mostly it had to do with college quarterbacks more NFL ready.

Oddly enough our offense got us to the playoffs, but our defense carried us through the playoffs. Namely Bob Sanders. Without him, our Colts would not have a ring.

What seemed like a perfect fit; Dungy and the Colts, actually needed a lot of luck to win a Superbowl.

I believe if we would have stuck it out with Mora, and got the right players for him, then we would have won a Superbowl much sooner and most likely won multiple titles.

I wasn't a big fan of Dungy, but I'm not convinced Mora would have been the answer either.

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Yes, yesterday's game was a disaster, a train wreck. But seriously fire anyone after 1 game?

 

It should have been done earlier, during the off-season, or should be done next offseason. Firing a coach right after the first game would cause more distraction to the team IMO. Whatever the outcome of the season would be we have to take it.

 

Besides, lets go a few...lets say 4-5 games into the season and judge the team and coaching staff only after. 

Yes, it's too premature to ask for anyone's head on the chopping block right now but if we get creamed by NE again, the handwriting is on the wall. Pagano will be gone. I'm cool with letting Chuck finish out his contract this year, but Pags has to show me that we can at least compete with NE when games matter. Yes, football is all about player execution & necessary adjustments. I'm reasonable, but Chuck's gotta show me progress not regression & if experience 45-7 again, I'd dismiss the darn Pope if he was wearing a headset & waltzing up & down our sidelines. 

 

I like Chuck as a person, but Irsay isn't paying you for pleasantries; He's paying you to knock off a heated rival & take 1 final step. It's now or never. A simplistic conclusion yes, but with a gift like Luck, you don't squander his talent or test your fan base's resolve by saying next year things will be better. Don't tell me; Show me. I'm talking meaningful strides forward not Championship guarantees. 

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Believing it has to do with one game is dumb

You're timing is *ic.  Let's start a "who do we fire" poll after game 1.  If you wanted this you should have been running this poll 8 months ago not after game one.  I understand all to well the issues with the coaching staff and front office and I'm a critic of both parties.  All you have to do is read my many posts during the draft and after the AFC championship game.  There's timely and intelligent and then there's this.....

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I will answer the latter first. I believe it was a bad move to fire Mora. Jim took the blame for not having the right players who fit Fangio's system. Remember Chad Bradtzke dropping into coverage? Jim Mora was a damn good coach. Sure he blew his top a few times in press conferences, and unfortunately that's what most people will remember about him.

After Mora was fired, Dungy was a no brainer. Every NFL fan knew Dungy was coming to Indy before it was announced. But Dungy never could consistently establish his defense in Indy. Some of that had to do with rule changes, but mostly it had to do with college quarterbacks more NFL ready.

Oddly enough our offense got us to the playoffs, but our defense carried us through the playoffs. Namely Bob Sanders. Without him, our Colts would not have a ring.

What seemed like a perfect fit; Dungy and the Colts, actually needed a lot of luck to win a Superbowl.

I believe if we would have stuck it out with Mora, and got the right players for him, then we would have won a Superbowl much sooner and most likely won multiple titles.

Bold, I like it.  Not sure I agree but cool that you're sticking to it.  Mora could flat coach just lacked the emotionally maturity genome.

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Yes he is. You'd never know because he's underutilized. But he's got a few 100 yard games under his belt and showed he can make tough catches.

He's top 10 though.

1. Gronk

2.Graham

3.Kelce

4. Davis

5. Benett

6. Olsen

7. Thomas

8. Fleener

9. Allen

10. Miller

 

You left out Delaine Walker, Zach Ertz, Jordan Cameron, and Anontio Gates

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Gronkowski, Graham, Kelce, Olsen, Bennett, and Gates are easily better. Then you have Ertz, Walker, Miller, Witten, and a myriad of others.

Obviously Gronk, Graham, Kelce are better but I'd argue Fleener is on par with those other TE's at this point in their careers except Ertz.

 

I think just purely as a pass catching TE he is better then Bennett and I think Fleeners numbers reflect that though I get the percentage of passes caught by Bennett is much better, While Bennett had a lot more catches last year he also had 37 more targets, Had Fleener gotten the same number of targets he would have had many more yards and likely double digit TD's and he already had more TD's then Bennett.

 

Same thing goes with Delanie Walker I think as with Bennett, Walker had 16 more targets. Fleener doubled him up in TD's

 

I think while Witten is the savvy vet and Fleener is still developing but Fleener is superior athletically as you would expect at this point in there careers and it shows because he appears to me to be more of a serious downfield threat when utilitzed

 

Ertz like I said I will give you that one

 

Now again this don't factor in blocking...Factor that in and Fleeners stock in my eyes plummets compared to the majority of TE's mentioned here....Dudes just as soft as the Pillsbury dough boy when it comes to blocking and I don't know what ticks me off more, Watching him try to block in-line or Pep asking him to do it

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You're timing is *ic. Let's start a "who do we fire" poll after game 1. If you wanted this you should have been running this poll 8 months ago not after game one. I understand all to well the issues with the coaching staff and front office and I'm a critic of both parties. All you have to do is read my many posts during the draft and after the AFC championship game. There's timely and intelligent and then there's this.....

You left out the part about all the rumors concerning the relationship between Grigson and Chuck. Of course people are going to talk about it. And who cares, because guess what? Fan discussion has zero effect on the Colts.

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Grigson because when you have a terrible offensive line and one of the best guards in the league is sitting in free agency YOU DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SIGN HIM!!!!!! You don't say "Oh yeah we like what we have and we feel comfortable with where we're at"

Incognito sat on the market awhile also and he had the best lineman rating on the field

of both teams Sunday. 

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If everyone is so concerned with firing Grigson then who would be a better option at the moment for a replacement come next offseason? I am asking as I have no idea who some good candidates would be. Some of you guys seem like you have it all planned out so I am curious to see some peoples ideas.

 

 

There would be a few different candidates that I would consider. First would be Brian Xanders the Senior Personnel Executive for the Lions. He was the Broncos GM form 2009-2012. Second would be my favorite, but a lot would disagree because of age. Eliot Wolf is the Director of Player Personnel for the Packers. He would be young to be a GM, but he is considered a rising star in the business. He is the son of legend Ron Wolf. There are tons of candidates out there, but I trust Irsay in doing what should be done. One thing I can say we have a owner that wants to win more than anyone!  

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I'd prefer not to think about all of this yet. We still have potentially a good season ahead of us. I don't want coach firing distractions to haunt/distract the team and break them apart this year.

 

It's still too early yet for me to panic either. 

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