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The sky is not falling, everyone relax [Mega-merge]


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Can the coaching be fixed too?

Sure. The coaching can be fixed, but only if everyone sees that there are problems, identify what those problems are, and decide to do something about the problems in a way that actually works. So, re: "Can the coaching be fixed, too?" Apparently not.

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Now that I look at this Boyett was really the guy who I think Grigson had in mind to take over for Landry and he probably would have if it wasn't for the massive alcohol problems he has.  I'm saying this to say there are various different things that happened that kind of derailed some of Grigsons plans for the defense as well.  Overall I think the biggest thing of course is we just really haven't had the opportunity until this years draft to draft a large number of defensive players.   I certainly see that trend changing going forward though.

We are still in the building process of the "Build the Monster" plan.  It makes sense, when you have a once in a lifetime franchise QB at your feet to start the building process by giving him weapons.  Now we need to make sure he's got protection and a defense.

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I've said this before but I honestly believe there is a huge disconnect between Grigson and Pagano. Grigson has his own mindset in terms of the players he wants. Even though Polian and Dungy butted heads sometimes, they atleast were on the same page in terms of the type of players the Colts were going to get. Especially when you count the fact that Grigson has largely neglected the defense with his drafting (until this most recent draft).

Yeah...I'm reconsidering my coming down on Pagano so much. Mike C's post got me thinking. Griggs is really starting to irk me.

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Yeah...I'm reconsidering my coming down on Pagano so much. Mike C's post got me thinking. Griggs is really starting to irk me.

Yes me to but he's irk me since the day they hired him from his original presser. I don't think any coach would be able to work with guy.
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Yes me to but he's irk me since the day they hired him from his original presser. I don't think any coach would be able to work with guy.

I try to give guys some time initially...to see what they do.  I haven't been overly impressed in his ability to build the lines and draft good defensive players.  Additionally some of the things I've been reading around here seem to give cause for concern. If reports are true that he hired the Offensive Coordinator instead of Pagano then that is ridiculous.  He needs to stay in his lane. 

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I won't really worry much unless we lose to the Jets. A win will be a win to me and it needs to be done. The Jets are no powerhouse team.......we should beat them.

 

I hope history does not repeat and this game vs. the Jets mimics the Philly game we should have won last year week 2.

 

 

But, I do believe the Colts win. And I also believe they played like hot slop at times vs. the Bills.

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Correctable? We have been saying this the past four years. When do we go into a season saying, things are now corrected?

When are things corrected? When we finish chopping wood. When we've stuck to the process long enough. When the monster has been built. When iron had finally sharpens iron.
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When are things corrected? When we finish chopping wood. When we've stuck to the process long enough. When the monster has been built. When iron had finally sharpens iron.

 

Someone got confused and they have the wood sharpening iron, then they all went shopping.

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Everyone should calm down. I think Buffalo is a lot better of a team than people think.

 

First, I'm very calm. Second, how good or even great, Buffalo may be is orthogonal (irrelevant) to the issue. It is not whether or not the Colts lost (to Buffalo or anyone else), it's everything about how that particular football game was (not very well) played.

 

We've been told that everything is correctable, but we weren't told anything was preventable. See the difference?

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First, I'm very calm. Second, how good or even great, Buffalo may be is orthogonal (irrelevant) to the issue. It is not whether or not the Colts lost (to Buffalo or anyone else), it's everything about how that particular football game was (not very well) played.

 

We've been told that everything is correctable, but we weren't told anything was preventable. See the difference?

 

That's your opinion and you have every right to feel that way. No, We did not play well at all. It was week one. I'm willing to hold off on panicking about the season for now, though (and I'm not in any way saying that you are panicking). If we play that poorly again this week against the Jets, then I'm definitely going to be concerned.

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Yawn 'squared'. One frickin game.

Agreed. Week one is tough for everyone, especially when going against a talented team with a new coaching staff. They know everything about you, you know next to nothing about them.

It's like being the first guy to fight Bruce Lee.

The Jets will be an interesting challenge. They've got new coaches as well, but they aren't nearly as talented.

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Well...well...well.  Looks like things weren't as peachy as you want to believe with our offensive line's play & protection of Luck last Sunday.

 

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2969252-155/nfl-colts-offensive-line-needs-bounce-back

That's not consistent pressure once you take into account he dropped back 53 times to pass....Again 53 times. Now had he dropped back lets say 32-35 times then you have a case but the O Line was far from the real problem vs the Bills, 6 hits out of 53 drop backs is every 8.8 drop back...Once you take into account the playcalling should be much closer to 35 pass to 27 runs average probably then we are talking about 3.9 hits a game or 64 hits in a 16 game season

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That's not consistent pressure once you take into account he dropped back 53 times to pass....Again 53 times. Now had he dropped back lets say 32-35 times then you have a case but the O Line was far from the real problem vs the Bills, 6 hits out of 53 drop backs is every 8.8 drop back...Once you take into account the playcalling should be much closer to 35 pass to 27 runs average probably then we are talking about 3.9 hits a game or 64 hits in a 16 game season

Others like the writer of that article saw it differently. It's not all about hits...it's also generating enough pressure to force Luck to hurry throws, scramble around, etc. I don't really care how many times Luck dropped back...the eye test shows there were issues. And others in the media saw it as well. Right now...our line isn't where we need it to be to take us where we want to go.

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Others like the writer of that article saw it differently. It's not all about hits...it's also generating enough pressure to force Luck to hurry throws, scramble around, etc. I don't really care how many times Luck dropped back...the eye test shows there were issues. And others in the media saw it as well. Right now...our line isn't where we need it to be to take us where we want to go.

Even with the 16 pressures (which includes the 2 sacks and 6 hits) that's not bad out of 53 drop backs (30.1 percent of the time). I agree that their was a few protection issues but that Bills front 7 is built for that...Speed and athleticism all over that front 7, If we run the ball all that is cut way down, We came out and barely ran the ball or barely used our TE's over the middle so of course there is going to be pressure when you don't execute the little we did try to do to stop it

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Even with the 16 pressures (which includes the 2 sacks and 6 hits) that's not bad out of 53 drop backs (30.1 percent of the time). I agree that their was a few protection issues but that Bills front 7 is built for that...Speed and athleticism all over that front 7, If we run the ball all that is cut way down, We came out and barely ran the ball or barely used our TE's over the middle so of course there is going to be pressure when you don't execute the little we did try to do to stop it

I agree that we shouldn't have abandoned the run at least. We need much better balance on offense to mask our deficiencies.

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Well...well...well.  Looks like things weren't as peachy as you want to believe with our offensive line's play & protection of Luck last Sunday.

 

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2969252-155/nfl-colts-offensive-line-needs-bounce-back

 

Some random writer with no-name says the Colts didn't protect Luck, and that's supposed to mean something?

 

Fourteen pressures in 53 dropbacks. 

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Some random writer with no-name says the Colts didn't protect Luck, and that's supposed to mean something?

 

Fourteen pressures in 53 dropbacks. 

Im honestly watching the all 22 and having trouble finding these 14 pressures, Im counting 8, The 2 sacks and 6 QB hits

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Im honestly watching the all 22 and having trouble finding these 14 pressures, Im counting 8, The 2 sacks and 6 QB hits

 

By my count, it was 10. There were a couple times when the pocket got pushed back and Luck couldn't step up, and those could be counted as pressures, but the blockers were still engaged and Luck wasn't touched on those plays. I wouldn't call that a pressure, but it's subjective. 

 

Even at 14, that's not a lot. Could be better, but these people talking about how Luck was under pressure all day must be watching a different game. Or didn't watch at all (more likely with the link above).

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Some random writer with no-name says the Colts didn't protect Luck, and that's supposed to mean something?

 

Fourteen pressures in 53 dropbacks. 

Well...how many random writers or any writers for that matter are espousing your "offensive line was peachy last week" view? Besides the Colts who will say everything is fixable and some here on the board who agree with you. 

 

Any way your bolded stat that you keep flashing around is erroneous. Where did you get it from any way?

 

The link below shows that Luck was sacked twice and hit 17 times.  Thats more than your 14 pressures already.  He also had some scrambles and rushed throws in the game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT

 

Also Luck dropped back 49 times not 53.  So that ups the pressure percentage as well.

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/statistics?team=IND

 

So plenty of room for improvement...our protection must improve for this team to go where it wants to.

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Well...how many random writers or any writers for that matter are espousing your "offensive line was peachy last week" view? Besides the Colts who will say everything is fixable and some here on the board who agree with you. 

 

Any way your bolded stat that you keep flashing around is erroneous. Where did you get it from any way?

 

The link below shows that Luck was sacked twice and hit 17 times.  Thats more than your 14 pressures already.  He also had some scrambles and rushed throws in the game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT

 

Also Luck dropped back 49 times not 53.  So that ups the pressure percentage as well.

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/statistics?team=IND

 

So plenty of room for improvement...our protection must improve for this team to go where it wants to.

 

You're mistaken in several ways, and I mean no disrespect in saying that.

 

1) Luck was absolutely NOT hit 17 times. I don't know where NFL.com is getting that from, but it's dead wrong. It's laughable how wrong that stat is.

 

2) Luck attempted 49 passes, but he scrambled twice (scrambles are passing plays with dropbacks), and he was sacked twice. 49+2+2=53. And those plays are included in the pressure percentage.

 

3) Rushed throws and QB leaving the pocket is included in pressures as well, so long as those plays were influenced by actual pressure, and not play design or QB leaving the pocket for no reason.

 

4) Pressures are subjective, so there's no surprise that different sites and people have different pressure numbers. Mine is from PFF, which differs from my personal charting. I saw 10 pressures, personally. 

 

5) I never said the protection was 'peachy.' I refuted your claim that Luck was under duress all game long, because he wasn't. 

 

6) I really don't care what random writers say, especially when they're wrong. Whoever wrote that article obviously didn't watch the game. They didn't rewatch the game. They didn't watch the All 22. I did. That doesn't mean I'm smarter than anyone else or that my opinion is gospel, but I really watched the game, and Luck wasn't under pressure all game.

 

7) We agree that there's room for improvement with the protection. Absolutely. I just disagree that the protection was poor in the opener. Part of the gameplan was for Luck to get rid of the ball, for TEs to help on the edges, etc. So just because I don't think there was a lot of pressure doesn't mean that the OL was above reproach, and I've said that in this thread already. 

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You're mistaken in several ways, and I mean no disrespect in saying that.

 

1) Luck was absolutely NOT hit 17 times. I don't know where NFL.com is getting that from, but it's dead wrong. It's laughable how wrong that stat is.

 

2) Luck attempted 49 passes, but he scrambled twice (scrambles are passing plays with dropbacks), and he was sacked twice. 49+2+2=53. And those plays are included in the pressure percentage.

 

3) Rushed throws and QB leaving the pocket is included in pressures as well, so long as those plays were influenced by actual pressure, and not play design or QB leaving the pocket for no reason.

 

4) Pressures are subjective, so there's no surprise that different sites and people have different pressure numbers. Mine is from PFF, which differs from my personal charting. I saw 10 pressures, personally. 

 

5) I never said the protection was 'peachy.' I refuted your claim that Luck was under duress all game long, because he wasn't. 

 

6) I really don't care what random writers say, especially when they're wrong. Whoever wrote that article obviously didn't watch the game. They didn't rewatch the game. They didn't watch the All 22. I did. That doesn't mean I'm smarter than anyone else or that my opinion is gospel, but I really watched the game, and Luck wasn't under pressure all game.

 

7) We agree that there's room for improvement with the protection. Absolutely. I just disagree that the protection was poor in the opener. Part of the gameplan was for Luck to get rid of the ball, for TEs to help on the edges, etc. So just because I don't think there was a lot of pressure doesn't mean that the OL was above reproach, and I've said that in this thread already. 

Ok thanks for your break down Supes.  I see now where the 53 drop backs came from.  Not so sure that NFL.com was wrong regarding the hit stats but honestly I don't care enough to rewatch the game and count. lol  I can also follow where you are coming from on 3, 4, and 7.  Yeah I exagerate your enthusiasm for our Oline in 5.   I overstated for dramatic effect. lol

 

Good posts as usual.  Respect.

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Reading all the topicslike "is it Luck" or "Our O line" or "no WR seperation" you think the sky was falling. But lets be honest the Colts are going to be fine because the only major issue they have is TURNOVERS. I mean 5 INT and 3 Fumbles lost in 2 games is not going to keep happening. The Oline not doing to bad Luck has only been sacked twice, and against two very hard rushing D lines.

 

The Colts clean up the TurnOvers and the W start appearing on the scoreboard. I say that starts this Sunday against the Titans.  I also hope they try running a little bit more.

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Reading all the topicslike "is it Luck" or "Our O line" or "no WR seperation" you think the sky was falling. But lets be honest the Colts are going to be fine because the only major issue they have is TURNOVERS. I mean 5 INT and 3 Fumbles lost in 2 games is not going to keep happening. The Oline not doing to bad Luck has only been sacked twice, and against two very hard rushing D lines.

 

The Colts clean up the TurnOvers and the W start appearing on the scoreboard. I say that starts this Sunday against the Titans.  I also hope they try running a little bit more.

 

^This is the mantra for 4th years now.

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Reading all the topicslike "is it Luck" or "Our O line" or "no WR seperation" you think the sky was falling. But lets be honest the Colts are going to be fine because the only major issue they have is TURNOVERS. I mean 5 INT and 3 Fumbles lost in 2 games is not going to keep happening. The Oline not doing to bad Luck has only been sacked twice, and against two very hard rushing D lines.

 

The Colts clean up the TurnOvers and the W start appearing on the scoreboard. I say that starts this Sunday against the Titans.  I also hope they try running a little bit more.

 

Have you even watched the games? The O-line isn't doing too bad?? Granted Luck may not have been sacked a ton but he has had constant pressure up the middle in his face which causes him to miss throws and speed up his timing.  Sack numbers don't tell the whole story man.  The only reason he hasn't been sacked more is because he has gotten rid of the ball, hence the turnovers! 

 

If you want to clean up the turnovers then you need to protect the QB so he isn't making bad throws under duress.

 

Is it time to panic yet?  No.  Absolutely not.  But the Titans are not going to be a pushover like many Colts fans think they will be.  Let this team start 0-3 and really watch the meltdown.

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Have you even watched the games? The O-line isn't doing too bad?? Granted Luck may not have been sacked a ton but he has had constant pressure up the middle in his face which causes him to miss throws and speed up his timing.  Sack numbers don't tell the whole story man.  The only reason he hasn't been sacked more is because he has gotten rid of the ball, hence the turnovers! 

 

If you want to clean up the turnovers then you need to protect the QB so he isn't making bad throws under duress.

 

Is it time to panic yet?  No.  Absolutely not.  But the Titans are not going to be a pushover like many Colts fans think they will be.  Let this team start 0-3 and really watch the meltdown.

I only saw highlights of Mondays game (I worked wicked late and was tired) but against Buffalo i watched most of the game and Luck had time. Hell first few drives he could have eaten a sandwich back there. that said if pressure is an issue then they need change their play calling, I see a LOT of deep pass plays and if your O line is that shaky you need do lot more slants/screens etc to move the ball down the field and also loosen up those blitzes.

 

Always feels Luck is looking deep on every passing play and never gets the ball out quickly like Manning or Brady.

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Have you even watched the games? The O-line isn't doing too bad?? Granted Luck may not have been sacked a ton but he has had constant pressure up the middle in his face which causes him to miss throws and speed up his timing.  Sack numbers don't tell the whole story man.  The only reason he hasn't been sacked more is because he has gotten rid of the ball, hence the turnovers! 

 

If you want to clean up the turnovers then you need to protect the QB so he isn't making bad throws under duress.

 

Is it time to panic yet?  No.  Absolutely not.  But the Titans are not going to be a pushover like many Colts fans think they will be.  Let this team start 0-3 and really watch the meltdown.

I believe this is the whole key. Both the Bill and Jets have good defenses, real good. You may disagree after seeing the Pats stick it to the Bills the way they did Sunday but the Pats offense is very dynamic and unlike us, they have a good offensive line. These teams have attacked the Colts offense at it's weakest point, Middle of the offensive line and it also happens to be the quickest way to the QB.

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I believe this is the whole key. Both the Bill and Jets have good defenses, real good. You may disagree after seeing the Pats stick it to the Bills the way they did Sunday but the Pats offense is very dynamic and unlike us, they have a good offensive line. These teams have attacked the Colts offense at it's weakest point, Middle of the offensive line and it also happens to be the quickest way to the QB.

Umm just an FYI the Pats have 3 rookies starting on the O line. The reason they did so well IMO is the fact the game plan called for quick hit passes, Brady even said if it wasnt there he was throwing it at his receivers feet. (59 drop backs only sacked 2 times)

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OK, I try to wait a couple days after games, especially losses, to post. So, after a cooling off period I have come to this conclusion. It's not as bad as it seems, but there are obviously problems.

 

1) The interior offensive line is struggling, like usual. The Jets and Bills attacked the weak point of the line, kudos to them. Blitzing up the middle makes it difficult to create a pocket and it also make it hard to get a RB involved in the pass game. We need better guards and center play.

 

2) It's not the reason we lost the game, the turnovers is the reason. However, the officiating was flat out bad. I'm being kind. Not only was it bad but it was one sided. Like I've posted earlier there were half a dozen calls that were very questionable at best and a few that were just flat out not penalties at all. Like I said, it was the reason we lost but it hurt for sure and it killed a couple of our drives and kept drives alive for the Jets so it was a contributing factor.

 

3) The defense played really well until later in the 2nd half when they were gassed and missing Davis. The defensive line looked good.

 

4) It was good to have Mathis back and when he was in there he looked solid and flashed some of his greatness. That was good to see.

 

5) If Gore does not fumble that ball on the goal line he most likely scores and the game takes on a completely different look. If Gore scores there and Vinny doesnt doink that chip shot its a 17-17 game.

 

6) The running game showed flashes of being good. The problem was the penalties and as I stated earlier there were a couple that were called that should have never been called, especially a couple of the holds. They killed drives.

 

I was as down as anyone Monday night and yesterday. The offense, which so many of us thought would be a record setting group, just hasen't performed. It starts at the top, theyve all had a hand in it. Not prepared, play calling, not sharp, poor execution, poor protection, penalties, bad decision making. Only way now is up...

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OK, I try to wait a couple days after games, especially losses, to post. So, after a cooling off period I have come to this conclusion. It's not as bad as it seems, but there are obviously problems.

 

1) The interior offensive line is struggling, like usual. The Jets and Bills attacked the weak point of the line, kudos to them. Blitzing up the middle makes it difficult to create a pocket and it also make it hard to get a RB involved in the pass game. We need better guards and center play.

 

2) It's not the reason we lost the game, the turnovers is the reason. However, the officiating was flat out bad. I'm being kind. Not only was it bad but it was one sided. Like I've posted earlier there were half a dozen calls that were very questionable at best and a few that were just flat out not penalties at all. Like I said, it was the reason we lost but it hurt for sure and it killed a couple of our drives and kept drives alive for the Jets so it was a contributing factor.

 

3) The defense played really well until later in the 2nd half when they were gassed and missing Davis. The defensive line looked good.

 

4) It was good to have Mathis back and when he was in there he looked solid and flashed some of his greatness. That was good to see.

 

5) If Gore does not fumble that ball on the goal line he most likely scores and the game takes on a completely different look. If Gore scores there and Vinny doesnt doink that chip shot its a 17-17 game.

 

6) The running game showed flashes of being good. The problem was the penalties and as I stated earlier there were a couple that were called that should have never been called, especially a couple of the holds. They killed drives.

 

I was as down as anyone Monday night and yesterday. The offense, which so many of us thought would be a record setting group, just hasen't performed. It starts at the top, theyve all had a hand in it. Not prepared, play calling, not sharp, poor execution, poor protection, penalties, bad decision making. Only way now is up...

The Refs have been flag happy all over the league, I mean the Pats v Bills game had 30 ACCEPTED penalties in the game!!Thats Insane!

 

2. if your interior line is struggling then there needs be quick passes called no holding ontpo it for 4-5 seconds, but it seems every play is a deep ball to Hilton.

 

3. The Gore Fumble was ugly.

 

The colts will be fine but the refs right now calling a penalty if you sneeze.

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The Refs have been flag happy all over the league, I mean the Pats v Bills game had 30 ACCEPTED penalties in the game!!Thats Insane!

 

2. if your interior line is struggling then there needs be quick passes called no holding ontpo it for 4-5 seconds, but it seems every play is a deep ball to Hilton.

 

3. The Gore Fumble was ugly.

 

The colts will be fine but the refs right now calling a penalty if you sneeze.

I've watched a number of other games this year and I have not seen one officiated as poorly as this one was. I didn't see much of the Pats/Bills game but ya thats excessive. I take issue with several flags that were thrown on the colts, a couple of holding calls that were nothing and a defensive holding that was not there.

 

I agree about the play calling. Gotta change it up. Roll him out, call some screens, slants etc. Gotta change something

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