My Appeal To The Nfl To Drop Appeal, Show Up To The Game.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I know many here are happy that Deflategate is over and we can get on with football (even if not happy with results).  But... it is Not over.  :-(  {Sigh}

 

The NFL has appealed the decision, and I'm not pleased, for many varied reasons.

 

First, this case was probably more 'winnable' than any of the previous battles, and the NFL duffed the chip shot onto the green at the appeal.  Judge Berman did not find deference was required (as I thought would likely happen) as he felt the NFL violated the essence of the CBA. Handled correctly, chances are Judge Berman would have confirmed the award.  Now the NFL likely has <10% of winning the appeal in the Second Circuit.  And it will eat up 10 months or more.  If Goodell drops the appeal, the fight is over, and Goodell can go to the game Thursday night.

 

But, no...  the fight continues and Goodell will not appear at the season opener because the parties (NFL / NFLPA) are still rolling the the mud pit.  Thus The Commissioner avoids the game to keep the attention off of him and on to the game and players.  Really?

 

And now I run across this tidbit.  Much like the old poison pill in players contracts (now no longer NFL legal), Judge Berman may have added some further fighting grounds, should the NFL prevail in their appeal.  At very the top of the last full page of Berman's 40 page ruling is a list of claims from Brady and the NFL Players Association that Judge Berman saw no need to address.  Such as-

 

A. Goodell was evidently partial allowing (improperly) Vincent {to use} Goodell's exclusive authority to discipline players on a Conduct Detrimental case

 

B. Goodell's conclusion that Brady knew and masterminded the deflation scheme had exceeded the findings in the original Wells report

 

C. Goodell's public declaration of the thoroughness of the 'independent' Wells report locked Goodell into a position of support of that report thus rendering Goodell incapable of reaching a contrary decision in Brady's appeal hearing. {“I want to express my appreciation to Ted Wells and his colleagues for performing a thorough and independent investigation.”  which the NFL later also admitted was not independent, nor had to be}

 

So if the Second Circuit goes in the <10% range and grants an overturn the vacated award decision and refers it back to Judge Berman for proceedings consistent to the 2nd Cicuit decision, Berman has these new grounds to open up the mud pit for more tussling action ... ad nauseam.  Or at minimum refer back to the NFL to give Brady another appeal hearing. {Groan}

 

Let's just end it all now.  NFL/Goodell - drop the appeal please.  Tighten up the NFL ship, let go of ego and privileged power, run the organization by the rules in place, and further define rules and punishments in the grey areas as necessary.

[dynasty13]

It is totally unacceptable that he will not be at opening night. 

 

It is a night of celebration each and every year, regardless of what else is going on and he should be there for that. Poor little guy just doesn't want to hear the boos...time to get over it and start the new season.

[amfootball]

I am with you 100 percent. The NFL seems incapable of admitting any culpability whatsoever. It seems to be impossible for them to say after Berman's ruling that we need to tighten the ship, take a closer look at our appeals process and fix it. Instead we get Goodell saying he will appeal to protect the shield. And another appeal with more ramifications as you say. Honestly, makes me want to puke but it is not surprising either. This has been the MO of the league since he took over and despite three straight losses in federal court to three different judges the past year, he has become even more thick headed and arrogant and unable to see he is hurting the good of the game.

 

Let me ask you, what do you think the NFL will do going forward to fix its disciplinary process and what do you think it should do? I have some thoughts but would be interested in hearing yours.

[Cynjin]

I know many here are happy that Deflategate is over and we can get on with football (even if not happy with results).  But... it is Not over.  :-(  {Sigh}

 

The NFL has appealed the decision, and I'm not pleased, for many varied reasons.

 

First, this case was probably more 'winnable' than any of the previous battles, and the NFL duffed the chip shot onto the green at the appeal.  Judge Berman did not find deference was required (as I thought would likely happen) as he felt the NFL violated the essence of the CBA. Handled correctly, chances are Judge Berman would have confirmed the award.  Now the NFL likely has <10% of winning the appeal in the Second Circuit.  And it will eat up 10 months or more.  If Goodell drops the appeal, the fight is over, and Goodell can go to the game Thursday night.

 

But, no...  the fight continues and Goodell will not appear at the season opener because the parties (NFL / NFLPA) are still rolling the the mud pit.  Thus The Commissioner avoids the game to keep the attention off of him and on to the game and players.  Really?

 

And now I run across this tidbit.  Much like the old poison pill in players contracts (now no longer NFL legal), Judge Berman may have added some further fighting grounds, should the NFL prevail in their appeal.  At the very top of the last full page of Berman's 40 page ruling is a list of claims from Brady and the NFL Players Association that Judge Berman saw no need to address.  Such as-

 

A. Goodell was evidently partial allowing (improperly) Vincent {to use} Goodell's exclusive authority to discipline players on a Conduct Detrimental case

 

B. Goodell's conclusion that Brady knew and masterminded the deflation scheme had exceeded the findings in the original Wells report

 

C. Goodell's public declaration of the thoroughness of the 'independent' Wells report locked Goodell into a position of support of that report thus rendering Goodell incapable of reaching a contrary decision in Brady's appeal hearing. {“I want to express my appreciation to Ted Wells and his colleagues for performing a thorough and independent investigation.”  which the NFL later also admitted was not independent, nor had to be}

 

So if the Second Circuit goes in the <10% range and grants an overturn the vacated award decision and refers it back to Judge Berman for proceedings consistent to the 2nd Cicuit decision, Berman has these new grounds to open up the mud pit for more tussling action ... ad nauseam.  Or at minimum refer back to the NFL to give Brady another appeal hearing. {Groan}

 

Let's just end it all now.  NFL/Goodell - drop the appeal please.  Tighten up the NFL ship, let go of ego and privileged power, run the organization by the rules in place, and further define rules and punishments in the grey areas as necessary.

 

1)  I doubt he drops the appeal, because it is more about trying to protect the power of the commissioner than anything to do with Brady.

 

2)  Goodell going to the opening game would do nothing but take away from the opening of the season.  I believe he is making the right decision regardless of wether he drops the appeal.

[Nadine]

I get it.  But I'm not looking forward to it.  

[BrentMc11]

I think of it this way.  The NFL punished Brady, but did not provide enough evidence for a judge to uphold the suspension.  Therefore he walks out Scott-free.

 

There needs to be changes now to the CBA because every suspension will be taken to a judge rather than the league handling it within.  This a wrong and a waste of $$$$$$$millions.

Edited September 4, 2015 by BrentMc11

[Gramz]

It is clear the NFL / Goodell are adamant that they believe Brady is guilty of wrong doing, and want him to admit as much.

 

It is also clear that Brady is adamant that he will continue to maintain his innocence.  

 

I think it's time to move on.....

 

The Pats have been penalized, both monetary and draft picks for this alleged infraction.  That in itself was a lot.

 

Brady, and possibly only Brady, knows the full truth, and the rest of us can speculate all we want, as for me.....

 

Enough of deflategate,  Enough of Pre-season

 

I am ready for some REAL  Football  

 

 

[21isSuperman]

It is totally unacceptable that he will not be at opening night. 

 

It is a night of celebration each and every year, regardless of what else is going on and he should be there for that. Poor little guy just doesn't want to hear the boos...time to get over it and start the new season.

I agree.  I don't know what his reason for not going to the game is (whether it's the DeflateGate stuff or something else), but it seems pretty childish to not show up.  You're the commissioner of the league and you're about to start a new season, but you're not going to show up?  Sure, you might be upset with Brady and the Pats, but what about all the other players and fans?

[-JJ-]

I know many here are happy that Deflategate is over and we can get on with football (even if not happy with results).  But... it is Not over.  :-(  {Sigh}

 

The NFL has appealed the decision, and I'm not pleased, for many varied reasons.

 

 

 I  think the appeal is just going through the motions and will go nowhere. My guess is it has ended. But hey...

[amfootball]

I think of it this way.  The NFL punished Brady, but did not provide enough evidence for a judge to uphold the suspension.  Therefore he walks out Scott-free.

 

There needs to be changes now to the CBA because every suspension will be taken to a judge rather than the league handling it within.  This a wrong and a waste of $$$$$$$millions.

They had Jeffrey Kessler on ESPN radio this morning and they asked him if there is a fundamental flaw in the CBA giving the commish so much power. I found his answer quite interesting. He said that the commish has had that power for 75 years and there has never been an issue with it until 2011 and Bountygate and then every case since then as Roger and this league is unable to understand that within the CBA is built in due process and fairness and have abused their power. He went on to talk about how Paul Tagliabue never had these litigation problems with the player as he understood that he had to rule with fairness and independence.

 

Honestly, I don't know what has happened to the NFL these last few years but Jonathan Kraft said no one understood back in 2006 the kinds of issues the NFL would be dealing with now and the type of scrutiny they would be under with the 24x7 news cycle. He said that the focus needs to get off of Park Avenue and the NFL needs an independent disciplinary arm. My feeling is those in the league office either need to be able to rule with some type of accountability from the owners or risk losing their jobs. I am tired of this blame game already. The NFL has messed up case after case to where 3 federal judges have ruled against them this past year. This is terrible for the game and I am really hoping there is some kind of change.

[AndreRison]

It's funny how ESPN shapes the narrative and everybody follows. I've never seen so much flipflopping in my life.

I do find it crazy people were saying Goodell wasn't harsh enough 2 years ago, now he's too harsh.

Edited September 4, 2015 by SteelCityColt

[oldunclemark]

The commissioner showing up would create a very hostile atmosphere that would spoil any championship ceremony.

Its the only smart thing to do

[oldunclemark]

It's funny how ESPN shapes the narrative and everybody follows. I've never seen so much flipflopping in my life.

I do find it crazy people were saying Goodell wasn't harsh enough 2 years ago, now he's too harsh.

Fans and media pretended they wanted discipline 4 or 5 years ago when NFL players committed crimes or broke rules and returned to play once they got off in court.

... Brady obviously cheated but the judge said the commisioner couldn't use the power the NFLPA agreed he should have.

The NFLPA wants player discipline but they was Goddell to dish it out so they can fight it and look loyal to their membership.

In the next negotiation, the players wont push that hard for an 'independent' discipline panel becayse they cant sue an independent panel.

I do wonder if its Jay Cutler..if the court judge rules the other way

[amfootball]

Fans and media pretended they wanted discipline 4 or 5 years ago when NFL players committed crimes or broke rules and returned to play once they got off in court.

... Brady obviously cheated but the judge said the commisioner couldn't use the power the NFLPA agreed he should have.

The NFLPA wants player discipline but they was Goddell to dish it out so they can fight it and look loyal to their membership.

In the next negotiation, the players wont push that hard for an 'independent' discipline panel becayse they cant sue an independent panel.

I do wonder if its Jay Cutler..if the court judge rules the other way

If its Jay Cutler, the Bears get a verbal warning from the NFL.

[12dalegend]

I am with you 100 percent. The NFL seems incapable of admitting any culpability whatsoever. It seems to be impossible for them to say after Berman's ruling that we need to tighten the ship, take a closer look at our appeals process and fix it. Instead we get Goodell saying he will appeal to protect the shield. And another appeal with more ramifications as you say. Honestly, makes me want to puke but it is not surprising either. This has been the MO of the league since he took over and despite three straight losses in federal court to three different judges the past year, he has become even more thick headed and arrogant and unable to see he is hurting the good of the game.

 

Let me ask you, what do you think the NFL will do going forward to fix its disciplinary process and what do you think it should do? I have some thoughts but would be interested in hearing yours.

Maybe all owners should be in on it with Goodell and Demaurice for these type of scenarios....seems fair enough

[ViriLudant]

Here's a question that I know none of you can answer:

If Brady so "obviously" cheated, why was it impossible for Goodell to prove?

This isn't about the trial, which went the way that it should have. I'm talking about pre-trial.

[southwest1]

 

 

There needs to be changes now to the CBA because every suspension will be taken to a judge rather than the league handling it within.  This a wrong and a waste of $$$$$$$millions.

Look, I will concede that Goodell was overreaching in the penalty phase & he tried to establish links to Brady's guilt that he could not verify as direct proof or empirical evidence, but how can the owners & players association re-open any piece of the CBA & tinker or tweek with it now until the current agreement expires? Even if the owners wanted to reign Goodell in now, how could they when with the exception of Kraft & Rooney, no other owners objected to how Roger appeared to be handling Deflate Gate until Berman's ruling came down earlier this week? Is this because Roger was expanding the League's brand both nationally & globally overseas making money hand over fist?

 

I just don't see how the CBA can be re-negotiated now even if some owners wanted lighter player suspensions to reduce an influx of challenges in a courtroom. It's like a DB asking for more money after the ink hasn't dried on the new contract he just signed.   

[ruksak]

Here's a question that I know none of you can answer:

If Brady so "obviously" cheated, why was it impossible for Goodell to prove?

This isn't about the trial, which went the way that it should have. I'm talking about pre-trial.

[ricker182]

I think of it this way.  The NFL punished Brady, but did not provide enough evidence for a judge to uphold the suspension.  Therefore he walks out Scott-free.

 

There needs to be changes now to the CBA because every suspension will be taken to a judge rather than the league handling it within.  This a wrong and a waste of $$$$$$$millions.

Why do people think the labor dispute appeal had anything to do with guilty or innocent?  

  

The judge ruled Goodell overstepped his powers not that Brady is innocent.

[amfootball]

This is maybe the best news yet:

 

NFL owners to reportedly discuss change in Roger Goodell’s role in league discipline, http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/09/04/nfl-owners-reportedly-discuss-change-roger-goodell-role-league-discipline/kQBFwW9lHkblrLDJpxEcYK/story.html?p1=menu_sports_latest

 

My feeling is there is the issue is not so much with the CBA but with the Commisher himself who is incapable of following it. If the owners themselves limit his role in discipline than that should be a big step forward.

[BrentMc11]

Look, I will concede that Goodell was overreaching in the penalty phase & he tried to establish links to Brady's guilt that he could not verify as direct proof or empirical evidence, but how can the owners & players association re-open any piece of the CBA & tinker or tweek with it now until the current agreement expires? Even if the owners wanted to reign Goodell in now, how could they when with the exception of Kraft & Rooney, no other owners objected to how Roger appeared to be handling Deflate Gate until Berman's ruling came down earlier this week? Is this because Roger was expanding the League's brand both nationally & globally overseas making money hand over fist?

 

I just don't see how the CBA can be re-negotiated now even if some owners wanted lighter player suspensions to reduce an influx of challenges in a courtroom. It's like a DB asking for more money after the ink hasn't dried on the new contract he just signed.   

It cannot be changed at this point SW1.  Someone stated the commissioner always had this kind of power.  Maybe the others were too nice to the players...in today's world...there is a true need for power to be utilized.

Why do people think the labor dispute appeal had anything to do with guilty or innocent?  

  

The judge ruled Goodell overstepped his powers not that Brady is innocent.

The bad thing is....this kind of thing needs to be done internally....not taken to a judge with every case.  The precedent has been established.

[Gramz]

There is a difference between  Vindicated ~ and ~ Vacated.

[Gramz]

It cannot be changed at this point SW1.  Someone stated the commissioner always had this kind of power.  Maybe the others were too nice to the players...in today's world...there is a true need for power to be utilized.

 

The bad thing is....this kind of thing needs to be done internally....not taken to a judge with every case.  The precedent has been established.

   I can only imagine anytime someone gets fined and/or suspended from here on out....  

[amfootball]

There is a difference between  Vindicated ~ and ~ Vacated.

There is but Berman's charter was never to vindicate or indict Brady but to rule on process as he was asked to either confirm or vacate the appeal award. That being said, during the course of the hearings and in his ruling, Berman repeatedly questioned the evidence that league had with regards to Brady's involvement with the AFCCG and alleged scheme to deflate footballs. He said point blank to Nash that he was having trouble finding any evidence of Brady's wrong doing that the league was claiming. In addition, in his ruling he slammed the Wells report as not being independent by putting the word "independent" in quotes SEVEN times in his ruling. So while Berman may not have uttered the words "Brady is innocent" he implied it strongly throughout the proceedings and his ruling which as a Pats fans was as complete a vindication as I could ever hope for from a neutral judge in a venue that the league chose.

[Gramz]

There is but Berman's charter was never to vindicate or indict Brady but to rule on process as he was asked to either confirm or vacate the appeal award. That being said, during the course of the hearings and in his ruling, Berman repeatedly questioned the evidence that league had with regards to Brady's involvement with the AFCCG and alleged scheme to deflate footballs. He said point blank to Nash that he was having trouble finding any evidence of Brady's wrong doing that the league was claiming. In addition, in his ruling he slammed the Wells report as not being independent by putting the word "independent" in quotes SEVEN times in his ruling. So while Berman may not have uttered the words "Brady is innocent" he implied it strongly throughout the proceedings and his ruling which as a Pats fans was as complete a vindication as I could ever hope for from a neutral judge in a venue that the league chose.

You can't, or rather shouldn't, pick and choose only what is to your liking here.

He also "implied" at times that he would find it hard to believe the two ballboys would deflate the footballs without Tom's knowledge, since he was the one that threw said footballs, and such.

I have said all along that I believe Berman saw some guilt on Tom's part but that he also thought the punishment too harsh, and one of the reasons he pushed so hard for the two sides to settle.

In the end, he had to rule on the process, as you stated, and the NFL failed in the way they handled it.

We've been over this enough, and the circular discussion is changing no one's opinion here.

[amfootball]

You can't, or rather shouldn't, pick and choose only what is to your liking here.

He also "implied" at times that he would find it hard to believe the two ballboys would deflate the footballs without Tom's knowledge, since he was the one that threw said footballs, and such.

I have said all along that I believe Berman saw some guilt on Tom's part but that he also thought the punishment too harsh, and one of the reasons he pushed so hard for the two sides to settle.

In the end, he had to rule on the process, as you stated, and the NFL failed in the way they handled it.

We've been over this enough, and the circular discussion is changing no one's opinion here.

Yep, the key word being "IF" the balls were deflated which I agree with but again the league did not prove that either which Berman notes in his ripping of the Wells report both during the hearings and in his ruling.

 

Berman did not feel the punishment was too harsh. He felt the punishment was absurd if you read his ruling based on prior precedent, the league comparing "general awareness" to PEDS and no notice. Then he went on to talk about the process which basically was a kangaroo court.

[Gramz]

Yep, the key word being "IF" the balls were deflated which I agree with but again the league did not prove that either which Berman notes in his ripping of the Wells report both during the hearings and in his ruling.

Berman did not feel the punishment was too harsh. He felt the punishment was absurd if you read his ruling based on prior precedent, the league comparing "general awareness" to PEDS and no notice. Then he went on to talk about the process which basically was a kangaroo court.

Once again, we all believe what we believe.

The circular discussion here is changing no one's opinion.

And it's gone on ad nauseum.

[amfootball]

Once again, we all believe what we believe.

The circular discussion here is changing no one's opinion.

And it's gone on ad nauseum.

I agree 100 percent. No one is changing anyone's opinion which is true on most threads here anyways but my main point was Berman's ruling and hearing proceedings were everything I could have hoped for an more as a Pats/Brady fan in terms of vacating the suspension and also slamming the league both on merit and process.

[ViriLudant]

There is a difference between Vindicated ~ and ~ Vacated.

Also a difference between real evidence and complete conjecture.

[oldunclemark]

Its would be insane for Roger Goddell to show up at the NE game Wednesday.. He will be criticized heavily if he

does or if he doesn't...

His appearance would detract from the opening night ceremonies for the champs...and drunken Patriot fans would attempt to to attack him

[ColtsBlueFL]

This topic is on discussion about the NFL decision to appeal or about Goodell not going to opening night game  Not for Patriot fans to redress old failed arguments and state Brady was proven innocent etc...  (which he was Not, BTW...)

 

This thread is now closed.