Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[Jason_]

Give em a little more money than the other team and they would sign with a big ole smile. So yeah. We could have signed both IMO.

 

Wrong again.  There is a limit/cap to how much money can be offered to an UDFA.

[Jason_]

He was getting limited reps, and being misused ... it was a horrible trade by Grigson.

You're assuming that Grigson/Pagano/Irsay wanted to keep Hughes around.  Considering comments he's made since being traded, it didn't sound like he wanted to be here.  I think it was pretty obvious they just didn't want him on the team, so it came down to either cutting him or trading him.  They decided to trade him and get something in return.  That's far from horrible.

[Jason_]

He's closer to the bottom than the top. 

 

that is a minority opinion

[Gavin]

There's no indication whatsoever that that is true. I have no reason to believe that Boom couldn't handle a full workload.

There was that game against Denver in the playoffs on a TD where he landed on his shoulder without getting hit where he came up favoring his left arm....I know only 1 instance but I'd probably find other instances if I went back through the rest of his runs.

 

Now I know that's only 1 play but its not like Herron was breaking a lot of tackles showing power in his runs either throughout his runs(His draft profile indicates this as well, Not that its the end all be all but NFL.com is generally accurate on those...not always of course as I have disagreed with some of Nawrockies evaluations), He had a sub 4.0 ypc outside of a 49 yard run where he was untouched. Maybe he could and Im reading to much into but I don't think he has given a consistent reason to think he can.

 

I would not have been getting a better idea of course as I did get tired of watch Trent try run the ball but I don't think Herron is/was built run between the tackles down after down

[esmort]

You're assuming that Grigson/Pagano/Irsay wanted to keep Hughes around.  Considering comments he's made since being traded, it didn't sound like he wanted to be here.  I think it was pretty obvious they just didn't want him on the team, so it came down to either cutting him or trading him.  They decided to trade him and get something in return.  That's far from horrible.

 

Or maybe he seen he wasn't being given a fair shot and his skill set was being misused and felt the his legitimate complaints fell on deaf/stubborn ears and that why he wanted to move.  I would not be surprised if this is the scenario at all I think there have been multiple instances of the Grigson/Pagano of being stubborn and making bad position/personnel decisions.

[Jason_]

Or maybe he seen he wasn't being given a fair shot and his skill set was being misused and felt the his legitimate complaints fell on deaf/stubborn ears and that why he wanted to move.  I would not be surprised if this is the scenario at all I think there have been multiple instances of the Grigson/Pagano of being stubborn and making bad position/personnel decisions.

 

so many unknowns...which is why calling it a "horrible trade" is a bit ignorant.

[Buck Showalter]

You're assuming that Grigson/Pagano/Irsay wanted to keep Hughes around.  Considering comments he's made since being traded, it didn't sound like he wanted to be here.  I think it was pretty obvious they just didn't want him on the team, so it came down to either cutting him or trading him.  They decided to trade him and get something in return.  That's far from horrible.

Wait a second there...

You mean to tell me that there may be more to some of a GM's roster moves, actions, & decisions that us fans aren't even privy to???

N-o-o-o-o way...

[Jason_]

Wait a second there...

You mean to tell me that there may be more to some of a GM's roster moves, actions, & decisions that us fans aren't even privy to???

N-o-o-o-o way...

 

[Gavin]

so many unknowns...which is why calling it a "horrible trade" is a bit ignorant.

I've always said it wasn't talent or production at linebacker that got Hughes traded, It was attitude in my opinion...And whats he do? goes out and gets in trouble with Marcel Dareus illegaly racing, The talent was there for him to succeed given reps but I think he had attitude issues...With that said he had a hell of a skillset coming out and had the potential to produce big if he got the a lot of reps to learn in games but that did not happen consistently until the new regime and the injury to Mathis

[crazycolt1]

I find it interesting that people who used Hughes to bash Polian when he was here as a waste of a draft pick are now using trading him to bash Grigson.

Funny how that works? Armchair QBs and GMs never stop with wishing something else would have happened.

[Colts_Fan12]

Yeah Grigson is terrible. I read a stat yesterday that said only like 13% of the snaps played on defense last season were by drafted defenders.

That is comically ridiculous.

well only me you and a select few seem to see how he has failed

[crazycolt1]

It's not hindsight when you thought and said the same things at the time.  I like Fleener, but was not in favor of drafting him; even at the time I wanted Glenn.  Hated the the Werner pick and wanted to trade down when we made the pick and said it at the time. My thoughts on the Trent Richardson trade are well known from day 1, but admittedly did not really have anyone specific in mind who I wanted on draft day since we didn't have a pick.  And I definitely would have gambled the 7th regardless of the media kick back unless Irsay had told me specifically I couldn't. 

That's what happens when you don't like anything the GM has done. You rag on just about every thing Grigson has done. I don't get why you think you can use hindsight and then come to the conclusion you are better or smarter than those who make a living doing it. In case you haven't noticed, the Colts are a very good team. They have made strides since Grigson took the job. By reading your comments you would think the Colts are the bottom of the league. The facts are that when Grigson took the job the Colts were the bottom of the league. He hit a homerun his first draft and won GM of the year. Every season since Grigson took the job the Colts have improved. I could very well understand if the Colts would have regressed but they haven't. There are more than likely about 25 other teams in the NFL who would gladly hire Grigson out from underneath the Colts at this time. He would be unemployed about 1 hour if the Colts fired him.

[Colts_Fan12]

Reminder that the Colts spend the 6th most amount of cap space on defense in the entire NFL.

Other notable teams in the top 10:

The Jets

The Bills

The Bengals

The Rams

The Cardinals

The Texans

The Browns

The Seahawks

funny they all have good to great defenses

[esmort]

That's what happens when you don't like anything the GM has done. You rag on just about every thing Grigson has done. I don't get why you think you can use hindsight and then come to the conclusion you are better or smarter than those who make a living doing it. In case you haven't noticed, the Colts are a very good team. They have made strides since Grigson took the job. By reading your comments you would think the Colts are the bottom of the league. The facts are that when Grigson took the job the Colts were the bottom of the league. He hit a homerun his first draft and won GM of the year. Every season since Grigson took the job the Colts have improved. I could very well understand if the Colts would have regressed but they haven't. There are more than likely about 25 other teams in the NFL who would gladly hire Grigson out from underneath the Colts at this time. He would be unemployed about 1 hour if the Colts fired him.

 

I never said I don't like anything he has done, but I think he has made plenty of very bad decisions as well and continues to make bad decisions that off set his good ones.  In my opinion he only has 2 moves I would consider "great" moves ... TY Hilton and Vontae Davis.

 

Like I said it isn't hindsight when myself and others were against the moves at the time they were made. 

 

Coincidentally, Grigson taking the job coincides with the drafting of Luck. It's much easier to hit a "homerun draft" when you have the #1 pick (and top picks in each round), and Luck falls in your lap. No I do not believe it is all Luck, but I think he has more to do with it than Grigson.

 

There are not 25 teams that would fire their GM in favor of Grigson (unless Luck was part of the deal)

[crazycolt1]

I never said I don't like anything he has done, but I think he has made plenty of very bad decisions as well and continues to make bad decisions that off set his good ones.  In my opinion he only has 2 moves I would consider "great" moves ... TY Hilton and Vontae Davis.

 

Like I said it isn't hindsight when myself and others were against the moves at the time they were made. 

 

Coincidentally, Grigson taking the job coincides with the drafting of Luck. It's much easier to hit a "homerun draft" when you have the #1 pick (and top picks in each round), and Luck falls in your lap. No I do not believe it is all Luck, but I think he has more to do with it than Grigson.

 

There are not 25 teams that would fire their GM in favor of Grigson (unless Luck was part of the deal)

Your negativity clouds your vision.

[esmort]

Your negativity clouds your vision.

 

Your homerism clouds yours.

 

What are his other great (not just good) moves? 

 

You think he would look good if he didn't have Luck, and you don't think another GM would have done as good or better given the same situation (Luck, high round picks, and weak division).

 

You give him free pass on his many horrible decisions? 

[BOTT]

People also need to stop using 20/20 hindsight in nitpicking what is not an easy thing to do. If Grigson and Pagano don't get the job done Irsay will fire them. Then maybe posters can use that same hindsight discussing which GM and Head Coach Irsay should have hired. I am just not sure what the point of doing that is, other than the obvious.

Boy, where were all you guys when people were criticizing Mike McGlynn? His job was difficult and I'm sure not one of you could play G better than Mike.....yet nobody was on here telling fans to take it easy on him. Why is it ok to crucify a player, but it's always hands off on a GM and coach?

[BOTT]

I find it interesting that people who used Hughes to bash Polian when he was here as a waste of a draft pick are now using trading him to bash Grigson.

It would help if Grigson didn't trade when he finally showed signs of life.

[BOTT]

I couldn't read more than a few pages on here, but to me it seems crazy that we are defending and giving the benefit of the doubt to our OL.. No other quarterback in the league has been hit more than Andrew Luck since his rookie season. Our run blocking has been sub par ever since. I'm not saying we need to panic, but "relaxed" doesn't seem to be the right mindset... 

 

I still haven't been able to watch the last preseason game.. NFL network didn't show it Saturday.

Cam and Russell Wilson have been hit more

[BOTT]

well only me you and a select few seem to see how he has failed

Grigson gets criticized plenty in the media. Must be more of those hindsight/revisionist history guys....

[crazycolt1]

Your homerism clouds yours.

 

What are his other great (not just good) moves? 

 

You think he would look good if he didn't have Luck, and you don't think another GM would have done as good or better given the same situation (Luck, high round picks, and weak division).

 

You give him free pass on his many horrible decisions? 

I don't give him a free pass at anything. I just see the good things and chalk up the bad things to all GMs have the same problems. You nit pick a few moves and overlook the big picture. Finding pro type linemen is hard for every GM in the league. When a GM does find one then he has to juggle the cap to account for those players and keeping things under the cap is not an easy job. Most free agents are either over priced or on the down side of their careers. We only have Johnson and Gore because of who the Colts are. ( a contender)  Grigson has been smart by signing contracts that are team friendly. You choose to overlook that aspect of his job. When you dwell on nothing but negative you cant see the good things. That is your choice. There is no such a thing as a perfect GM, team or coach. You seem to think there is if they followed your advice. You are no different than me when it comes to the knowledge of how the inner workings of a NFL team works.  You can sit behind you computer and judge something without wearing those shoes because in your mind you know better. Could better choices have been made? Yes. But to harp on the things that didn't serves no one but you and your desire to complain.

[ColtsfaninTexas]

Cam and Russell Wilson have been hit more

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/5/19/8625013/andrew-luck-has-been-knocked-down-more-than-any-other-quarterback-over-past-three-years-colts

 

Can you share the hit stat which shows Cam and Russell being hit more often? Regardless, your point doesn't really do anything to take away from my point. 

 

I believe the "hit" count you may be referring to is beyond the LOS. This stat is telling which compiles hits and sacks behind the LOS as a thrower. 

[COLTS449]

Wrong again.  There is a limit/cap to how much money can be offered to an UDFA.

 

OK I didn't know that. But dude you cant tell me that we couldn't have signed Evan Mathis. I mean we could have signed him weeks ago, but today he signed for 1 year, 4 million. And he's a top 5 guard in the league. If nothing else we could have offered him a million or 2 more this year and signed him IMO. But we just keep sticking with a plan that isn't working. referring to the O-Line. I mean it'll probably be the same this year as its been the last few because we haven't been aggressive enough in trying to fix it. But all this about this guy may not have wanted to sign here or there. Man with most of these guys they'll sign wherever offers the most money.

[dudley dawson]

You are not giving Grigson any more time? Really? Please list any GM who has don't what Grigson has done in three seasons? Took a team that was in shambles and 39 million in dead cap space. Took them to the playoffs after just about a total rebuilt team and advanced farther each year. Now the Colts are one on the favored team to win the AFC and some say the super bowl if things fall right. I will wait for you list of GMs that has done a better job considering what he had when he took the job.

Luck deserves the credit for our success, or at least most of it.  95% Luck, 5% Grigson/Pagano/whomever else.

[Pacergeek]

Grigson says "no" to Jerry Hughes, whom is now a pro bowler. Grigson says "no" to Reggie Wayne, one of the best WR's to ever play the game. Grigson says "yes" to cab drivers like Trent Richardson, DHB, and Laron Landry. Grigson is not good at evaluating talent

[dudley dawson]

We couldn't have matched (or slightly beat) Denver's 2.5 mil offer for Mathis?  Are you kidding me??  Sorry but this is another Grigson blunder.

[BOTT]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/5/19/8625013/andrew-luck-has-been-knocked-down-more-than-any-other-quarterback-over-past-three-years-colts

 

Can you share the hit stat which shows Cam and Russell being hit more often? Regardless, your point doesn't really do anything to take away from my point. 

 

I believe the "hit" count you may be referring to is beyond the LOS. This stat is telling which compiles hits and sacks behind the LOS as a thrower.

i presume it is counting both. But a lot of that could be Wilson running due to pressure.

[Buck Showalter]

well only me you and a select few seem to see how he has failed

Others see the "bad moves" also, some just choose to be happy/content with the over all progress of the team & trust the GM is making choices to win now & allow for continued success...

if you fired your GM every time a roster decision didn't work out 100%, well your be the Browns...

[Buck Showalter]

funny they all have good to great defenses

& how are those teams offenses???

Did more than 75% of those teams even make the playoffs???

[esmort]

I don't give him a free pass at anything. I just see the good things and chalk up the bad things to all GMs have the same problems. You nit pick a few moves and overlook the big picture. Finding pro type linemen is hard for every GM in the league. When a GM does find one then he has to juggle the cap to account for those players and keeping things under the cap is not an easy job. Most free agents are either over priced or on the down side of their careers. We only have Johnson and Gore because of who the Colts are. ( a contender)  Grigson has been smart by signing contracts that are team friendly. You choose to overlook that aspect of his job. When you dwell on nothing but negative you cant see the good things. That is your choice. There is no such a thing as a perfect GM, team or coach. You seem to think there is if they followed your advice. You are no different than me when it comes to the knowledge of how the inner workings of a NFL team works.  You can sit behind you computer and judge something without wearing those shoes because in your mind you know better. Could better choices have been made? Yes. But to harp on the things that didn't serves no one but you and your desire to complain.

 

I have acknowledged the things I believe he does well ... including constantly churning the bottom of the roster and looking outside the box for players, I agree he has done a good job on contracts, but that is being part of a competent GM he doesn't get "extra credit" for,  and I think it was an emphasis when hiring that any GM Irsay hired would be expected to adhere to. I also agree he has done a good job not over paying for some over rated FA's, and he is good at spotting talent at some positions especially WR.

 

You say "nit pick a few things" as if the scales are so far weighted toward the good it's easy to over look the bad ... where I feel his mistakes are quickly catching up with the good, and at this point feel he is an average "middle of the road" GM. 

 

This thread is weighted heavily toward specifically his handling of the OL ... which I think he has mishandled badly; both in the draft and in free agency.

 

Are there instances where I believe we would be better off if he had chosen what I was advocating at the time (not hindsight)... heck yeah there are ... does that mean I think I could do a better job over all than him .. No.   But, I do think there are other GMs and executives that are going to be future GMs that could have done as good or better than Grigson.

 

We all sit behind the computer and judge the moves players, GMs, and coaches make ... thats the point of the forum ... it would be pretty boring and pathetic if everyone just came here to talk about how great Grigson was.

 

As far as you "not giving him a pass" ... Admittedly, I don't read every thread and don't remember all your posts, but you definitely are not someone who sticks out in my mind as one of the posters who regularly vocally holds Grigson accountable for bad decisions and seem to always be one one of his most tenacious defenders. 

[crazycolt1]

Luck deserves the credit for our success, or at least most of it.  95% Luck, 5% Grigson/Pagano/whomever else.

I know Luck is one of the best QBs in the league but he does not do it alone. He would be the first to say that. I don't care how good the QB is it takes a team to win. Just ask Dan Marino or Dan Fouts. Those are just two examples of fantastic QBs who didn't have the team around them to win a super bowl. Then you have a QB like Dilfer who won a super bowl without the great talent because of their team. Sorry, you are being too narrow minded of what a team consist of.

[Superman]

The only reason the run game was doing okay was because Bradshaw was playing like a madman and picked up Richardson's slack. 

 

And to answer your question yes, Richardson should have been cut from the team following the 2013 season or at the very least prior to the start of the 2014 season. 

 

And as to your last line, I'm not sure what you would be doing, but if there was another player that was as bad as his job as TRich was, then yes, I would say he never should have seen the field either. 

 

Prior to being drafted, Richardson was expected to be special. Not just good, but really good. Almost unanimously. He was decent as a rookie. He got traded two weeks into his second season and then played poorly. 

 

The team that traded a first rounder for him should have cut him after he played 16 games for them, including playoffs? That's not reasonable at all. Never mind the concept of "return on investment" or the fact that his contract was fully guaranteed... Young players never get better. There's no reason to give them some time to deal with being traded to a new team, running behind a bad offensive line, etc. He was bad in Year 2? Cut him.

 

And then when he started playing well in the middle of the season, the response is 'he shouldn't have been on the field in the first place.' Those games highlight the reason they tried to be patient with him in the first place.

 

The Richardson trade is absolutely Grigson's biggest blunder. And it was outrageous. Then the Hughes trade, which was iffy at the time, and has proven to be bad. Then Werner, again, iffy at the time, and hasn't worked. Cherilus was overpaid, and had a serious injury history. There's really little to no defense for those moves. They were two years ago, though. Grigson, in his second season as a GM, did some stupid stuff. I guess your stance on Richardson -- cut him after two seasons in the league -- explains why you've closed the book on Grigson so quickly.

[Superman]

Wrong again.  There is a limit/cap to how much money can be offered to an UDFA.

 

QFT.

 

Not only that, there's a limit to how much signing bonus a team can give to their entire pool of UDFAs in a given season. La'el Collins' agents asked for all of whatever was left from whatever team they were going to sign with (from my MMQB link earlier in the thread). 

[Superman]

& how are those teams offenses???

Did more than 75% of those teams even make the playoffs???

 

How many of the players those teams are spending that money on were drafted prior to 2012?

[21isSuperman]

I'm gonna try to bring this discussion back to the OL, since that's where it was initially supposed to go.  There's a topic on Grigson's overall GM ability here: http://forums.colts.com/topic/39685-sporting-news-ranks-grigson-the-10th-best-gm/

 

I'm not concerned with the OL as of now.  The last time they played some meaningful games, they did well.  There's some shuffling and whatnot going on, but I'm going to wait until the games have some meaning before saying they're playing poorly

[crazycolt1]

We couldn't have matched (or slightly beat) Denver's 2.5 mil offer for Mathis?  Are you kidding me??  Sorry but this is another Grigson blunder.

You have no knowledge of that. Maybe Mathis wanted to play in Denver? Denver has an already established running game and Manning. Sometimes money is not the only reason a player signs with a team. Right here on the Colts we have Johnson and Gore who more than likely could have signed bigger money contracts with quite a few teams.

[crazycolt1]

I have acknowledged the things I believe he does well ... including constantly churning the bottom of the roster and looking outside the box for players, I agree he has done a good job on contracts, but that is being part of a competent GM he doesn't get "extra credit" for,  and I think it was an emphasis when hiring that any GM Irsay hired would be expected to adhere to. I also agree he has done a good job not over paying for some over rated FA's, and he is good at spotting talent at some positions especially WR.

 

You say "nit pick a few things" as if the scales are so far weighted toward the good it's easy to over look the bad ... where I feel his mistakes are quickly catching up with the good, and at this point feel he is an average "middle of the road" GM. 

 

This thread is weighted heavily toward specifically his handling of the OL ... which I think he has mishandled badly; both in the draft and in free agency.

 

Are there instances where I believe we would be better off if he had chosen what I was advocating at the time (not hindsight)... heck yeah there are ... does that mean I think I could do a better job over all than him .. No.   But, I do think there are other GMs and executives that are going to be future GMs that could have done as good or better than Grigson.

 

We all sit behind the computer and judge the moves players, GMs, and coaches make ... thats the point of the forum ... it would be pretty boring and pathetic if everyone just came here to talk about how great Grigson was.

 

As far as you "not giving him a pass" ... Admittedly, I don't read every thread and don't remember all your posts, but you definitely are not someone who sticks out in my mind as one of the posters who regularly vocally holds Grigson accountable for bad decisions and seem to always be one one of his most tenacious defenders. 

It's not a point to hold Grigs accountable for bad decisions. It's a point to realize he is no different than any other GM. I don't know the exact percentage of picks and players brought in and any given team but finding great players out of those is not as high a percentage as you might think. As long as the Colts continue to make progress there is no reason to not defend Grigs. Has he made some bad moves? Of coarse he has but not to the point where I feel the need to have an attitude about him in a negative light. I know the shape the Colts were in when he took the job. The Colts have not regressed. Matter of fact the have went farther along every season since Grigs has been here.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Grigson says "no" to Jerry Hughes, whom is now a pro bowler. Grigson says "no" to Reggie Wayne, one of the best WR's to ever play the game. Grigson says "yes" to cab drivers like Trent Richardson, DHB, and Laron Landry. Grigson is not good at evaluating talent

i agree, our main weakness, we need an upgrade at the gm position

[BOTT]

Others see the "bad moves" also, some just choose to be happy/content with the over all progress of the team & trust the GM is making choices to win now & allow for continued success...

if you fired your GM every time a roster decision didn't work out 100%, well your be the Browns...

You really believe people want him fired for one bad move or you just throwing out a false argument for giggles?

[BOTT]

I know Luck is one of the best QBs in the league but he does not do it alone. He would be the first to say that. I don't care how good the QB is it takes a team to win. Just ask Dan Marino or Dan Fouts. Those are just two examples of fantastic QBs who didn't have the team around them to win a super bowl. Then you have a QB like Dilfer who won a super bowl without the great talent because of their team. Sorry, you are being too narrow minded of what a team consist of.

Marino is the perfect example of a QB who carried a team for yrs. Fouts actually had a pretty good squad.