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TY Hilton signs new deal (Mega Merge)


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Conversely, you could trade him for a first round pick or multi picks or an OL or DL player or two, and save a bunch of cash.

So in one post you say receivers are a dime a dozen and not worth paying. In the next you suggest that we could have got a first round pick/multiple picks or multiple players. So why would a team trade any of that for TY if in fact receivers are a dime a dozen?

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Buddy, just give it up. Bottom line is there are no guarantees except the ones you make. Simple law of holes .... "when in one stop digging". Read my lips .... the TY deal did absolutely nothing to improve this team now or in the future .... period! The rest is another argument.

 

Give what up? Correcting you?

 

I am reading your words, not your lips, and they are bad, bad words.

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 the TY deal did absolutely nothing to improve this team now or in the future

 

You keep your best players. Not because it makes you better than you were before, but because you're better with them than without them. 

 

huh-111113.jpg

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Well, I think the numbers say otherwise, and we also must have a much different definition of substantial.

Day late and a dollar short. Even Superman doesn't dispute this.

We spent more on offense than on defense while manning was on the colts.

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What people are also overlooking is the personality angle. We tend not to stick with the Chad's, the Terrell's or the Dez Bryant's of the NFL. Character is important in the locker room, and it's something the Colts may be happier with: we have an elite players, he's got a great work ethic, let's keep him....

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So in one post you say receivers are a dime a dozen and not worth paying. In the next you suggest that we could have got a first round pick/multiple picks or multiple players. So why would a team trade any of that for TY if in fact receivers are a dime a dozen?

 

If our boneheads are willing to pony up there are other boneheads that are willing to as well. You have to look no further than a couple days and a bonehead named Rex. You give the fron offices way too much credit.

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Great plan. Let TY go, take a big bag of loot down to NFL'R'Us and by 3 'decent' players. Job done, Dynasty on the way.

Yep...like Grigson can just go to the nearest store and buy quality upgrades for the OL and DL etc....if I remember correct he added a new starting RG...a new starting OLB....a new starting DT....and a new starting S this past offseason....so who did we lose out on that signing a PRO BOWL WR cost us....no one that I can see. TY has been the one CONSTANT this offense has had in the last 3 years. Its like people think pro bowl caliber defenders are just all over the place and NO ONE else wants to sign the very very very few that hit FA which pushes their asking price into WAY over paid status. You keep your own best talent.....Grigson needs to DRAFT some defensive and OL talent. Cry at him for that...but to be upset he paid our best offensive player outside of our franchise qb....that just seems crazy. Andrew has had several avg talented wrs on this team....and he COULDN'T get it done with them. Avery...poor...DHB...beyond poor outside his blocking...and Nicks who was hyped up last year was very dissappointing. Even the shell of a legend Reggie Wayne didn't look good playing with AL. The one guy that has laced up his shoes and brought it...got paid. He earned it...and will continue to earn it....because Dorsett, Moncrief, Carter all have questions they have to answer still....TY doesn't. I'm not here to say that 13 million is a great going rate for great wrs but I am here to say that TY is important to this team and he would not be easy to replace.

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Again, for those saying Hilton isn't worth 65 million the NFL disagrees with you.  Had he hit the market someone would have gladly paid him that amount.  Had the Colts gone in saying hey we'll pay you 9 million a year his agent would have said we'll take our chances in free agency thank you very much.  The Colts weren't going to get Hilton for cheap and they weren't willing to let him walk so they paid him market value and got a deal done.  Great now they can move on to other free agents who they need to keep too. 

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Not saying this is the solution either, but we do have 5 pretty darn good WR's and 2 of them wont see too many reps, so use them as trade bait!!  Grigson doesn't fear pulling the trigger on a trade...  I do like Dorsett and think he will be good, however with the current needs at LB, I do believe there were better options out there. 

I understand....imo I think your issue is with Grigson and who he has drafted or signed in FA...and thats fair if you feel that way...I just think that re-signing TY who is a star...and is only getting BETTER each and every year shouldn't take away from what Grigson did and didn't do with addressing other needs. TY getting paid didn't stop us from getting a lb....in fact he went out last year and signed the premeir one on the market in Jackson (and that should tell you what the FA market for LBs looks like) so we have addressed the defense....it seems not to everyone's liking but TY has shown to be worth this contract imo and I look for him to earn every penny of it. We do have better depth than ever before at WR but none of them have shown it on the field that they can get it done. Two rookies and second year guy that has only played limited snaps...lets not get too carried away that we let go of the one guy that HAS been a pro bowler.

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Buddy, just give it up. Bottom line is there are no guarantees except the ones you make. Simple law of holes .... "when in one stop digging". Read my lips .... the TY deal did absolutely nothing to improve this team now or in the future .... period! The rest is another argument.

In the NFL not every move is about getting better sometimes it's about making sure you don't get worse.  Keeping their best young player on the roster not named Andrew Luck does just that for the Colts.  Had they lost Hilton that for sure wasn't going to make the team better and could have very well made the team worse.  For a team that expect to contend for a Super Bowl this season and over the next couple of years keeping your QB's favorite target seems like a no brainer even if by just re-signing him didn't make the team better (although you could argue if Hilton keeps getting better he could help make the team better). 

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You keep your best players. Not because it makes you better than you were before, but because you're better with them than without them. 

 

huh-111113.jpg

Well TY hasn't hit his ceiling either...I think WE could be better with this TY than the old TY....and that is something special!! Kid is learning and growing. He started out as a guy that ran a 9 route and got behind the defense....he has slowly added more routes to his game. He will continue to grow and be even better than he has been the last 3 years. If people want us to be the NY Jets then fine...lets get rid of all our stars...including Andrew...and we can start over and build defense through the draft...but fact is we have what we have...and I'm dang glad for it.

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Dear lord... where do you start with this thread, it should  have been a stereotypical preseason one. Sign a fan favorite to long term deal.. celebrations, punch may have been served, you know vanilla stuff. Hiding the really exotic off the wall stances until say a middle of a game when people claim the sky is falling after minute 2 of the first regular season game. 

 

Some points, if I may, aimed generally:

 

  • I find it amusing that people are claiming we're stacked at WR. We have two receivers that have any real history or NFL production, one of whom is, well, old. Beyond that we have a boat load of potential sure, but what's the expression about eggs and counting? Do people have that short a memory that they forget when last season we said we were stacked at WR after signing Nicks.. yeah looked how that turned out. 
  • TY is really darn good, maybe not top 5 but certainly top 10, you can't argue with his production and he still has room to get better. To that end, let's say we didn't tie him up and he has another decent season, do you really want him testing the waters in FA? Let me rephrase that, do you want him testing the waters of FA where is by far and away the best receiver available? See the thing about the Bryant/Thomas deals was aside from setting a new market (which was already a big high because of Megatron's outlier), it also took two WRs off the FA market. If we assume Green/Jones are also going to never see FA, it's pretty thin for 2016. Point being, TY would have got paid a heck of lot more if he hit FA. 
  • It has been proven time and time again we can afford to sign the TY's, the AC's, the Fleener's, the Allen's of this world and still sign Luck. GB are the prime examples of this. You draft well, you resign key guys (at near enough Market Value) and you draft well to replace those you cut loose. We've done the hard part in finding a franchise QB. Where people who look at the Manning years and cricticise the roster composition go wrong is ignoring the at times horrific drafting. Spending money on Manning/Clark/Wayne et al didn't preclude having a good D, bad drafting and a bad scheme did. 
  • Speaking of money... Aside from Johnson.. look where the FA $$'s went this off season, the FO isn't just building a Star Wars offense, they're still trying to build a balanced roster. 

Long story short we've tied up a very good WR, about to come into his prime, at a market value rate. All being well, by the time this deal is done and he's hitting 31 we'll have had the best of his playing days out of him and I daresay the market will have moved on anyway that paying a WR 13 Million a year for his type of production will be a real steal..... 

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Along with keeping your best core players within reason and feasibility. Kudos to you, Jared C., Superman, & others about the deal.

Ref. point : Signing T.Y. Hilton!

Exactly CS, you can throw NCF in that mix too. Yeah I know that's where your classification of "others" comes into play. I just appreciate our esteemed forum members with a good head for numbers, decimal points, & contract negotiations specifically what makes a deal a cap friendly document for our franchise. Thank you all. 

 

Believe me, I know my limitations but I also know what others excel at that SW1 sucks at. Nice work fellas & thanks for watering down complicated contract jargon for little old fools like yours truly. :P  

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What people are also overlooking is the personality angle. We tend not to stick with the Chad's, the Terrell's or the Dez Bryant's of the NFL. Character is important in the locker room, and it's something the Colts may be happier with: we have an elite players, he's got a great work ethic, let's keep him....

Great point...

I may be wrong but I think I remember seeing Garcon try & start stuff with Watt, & think he had another case of the dropsies just last night...

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Dear lord... where do you start with this thread, it should  have been a stereotypical vanilla preseason one. Sign a fan favorite to long term deal.. celebrations, punch may have been served, you know vanilla stuff. Hiding the really exotic off the wall stances until say a middle of a game when people claim the sky is falling after minute 2 of the first regular season game. 

 %2

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Dear lord... where do you start with this thread, it should  have been a stereotypical vanilla preseason one. Sign a fan favorite to long term deal.. celebrations, punch may have been served, you know vanilla stuff. Hiding the really exotic off the wall stances until say a middle of a game when people claim the sky is falling after minute 2 of the first regular season game. 

 

Some points, if I may, aimed generally:

 

  • I find it amusing that the same people claiming we're stacked at WR. We have two receivers that have any real history or NFL production, one of whom is, well, old. Beyond that we have a boat load of potential sure, but what's the expression about eggs and counting? Do people have that short a memory that they forget when last season we said we were stacked at WR after signing Nicks.. yeah looked how that turned out. 
  • TY is really darn good, maybe not top 5 but certainly top 10, you can't argue with his production and he still has room to get better. To that end, let's say we didn't tie him up and he has another decent season, do you really want him testing the waters in FA? Let me rephrase that, do you want him testing the waters of FA where is by far and away the best receiver available? See the thing about the Bryant/Thomas deals was aside from setting a new market (which was already a big high because of Megatron's outlier), it also took two WRs off the FA market. If we assume Green/Jones are also going to never see FA, it's pretty thin for 2016. Point being, TY would have got paid a heck of lot more if he hit FA. 
  • It has been proven time and time again we can afford to sign the TY's, the AC's, the Fleener's, the Allen's of this world and still sign Luck. GB are the prime examples of this. You draft well, you resign key guys (at near enough Market Value) and you draft well to replace those you cut loose. We've done the hard part in finding a franchise QB. Where people who look at the Manning years and cricticise the roster composition go wrong is ignoring the at times horrific drafting. Spending money on Manning/Clark/Wayne et al didn't preclude having a good D, bad drafting and a bad scheme did. 
  • Speaking of money... Aside from Johnson.. look where the FA $$'s went this off season, the FO isn't just building a Star Wars offense, they're still trying to build a balanced roster. 

Long story short we've tied up a very good WR, about to come into his prime, at a market value rate. All being well, by the time this deal is done and he's hitting 31 we'll have had the best of his playing days out of him and I daresay the market will have moved on anyway that paying a WR 13 Million a year for his type of production will be a real steal..... 

Nice post SCC. Very well articulated too. Resign reliable clutch guys & continue to draft well to replace players that you have to let go in order to not fracture your salary cap. Yeah, Ted Thompson is a master at this. You're exactly right. Your Star Wars line made me laugh, but it's right on the money. God, I pray our o-line can create holes in the running game.

 

I know a defense is crucial too just to generate more turnovers & 3rd down stops, but if your protection is solid in the pocket everything flows better. Safeties can't slide backwards if your ground game gets about 5 yards a carry, picks rapidly decline for your QB, & TY can take the lid of a defense with 1 unexpected flee flicker at just the right moment. 

 

I'm just shocked that TY's agent Drew Rosenhaus negotiated such a reasonable deal with Ryan Grigson & Jim Irsay because Drew typically plays hardball for his clients. I'm not complaining. I'm just pleasantly surprised that's all. 

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  • . Where people who look at the Manning years and cricticise the roster composition go wrong is ignoring the at times horrific drafting. Spending money on Manning/Clark/Wayne et al didn't preclude having a good D, bad drafting and a bad scheme did. 

 

ASSRNoM.gif

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I understand....imo I think your issue is with Grigson and who he has drafted or signed in FA...and thats fair if you feel that way...I just think that re-signing TY who is a star...and is only getting BETTER each and every year shouldn't take away from what Grigson did and didn't do with addressing other needs. TY getting paid didn't stop us from getting a lb....in fact he went out last year and signed the premeir one on the market in Jackson (and that should tell you what the FA market for LBs

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Nice post SCC. Very well articulated too. Resign reliable clutch guys & continue to draft well to replace players that you have to let go in order to not fracture your salary cap. Yeah, Ted Thompson is a master at this. You're exactly right. Your Star Wars line made me laugh, but it's right on the money. God, I pray our o-line can create holes in the running game.

 

I know a defense is crucial too just to generate more turnovers & 3rd down stops, but if your protection is solid in the pocket everything flows better. Safeties can't slide backwards if your ground game gets about 5 yards a carry, picks rapidly decline for your QB, & TY can take the lid of a defense with 1 unexpected flee flicker at just the right moment. 

 

I'm just shocked that TY's agent Drew Rosenhaus negotiated such a reasonable deal with Ryan Grigson & Jim Irsay because Drew typically plays hardball for his clients. I'm not complaining. I'm just pleasantly surprised that's all. 

 

Ha thank you SW, too kind my man, I was just having a little rant. It was nice to see something positive news wise and I was a little angry at people picking holes in it. 

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I never said let him go. I said make him play this season under the old contract and groom the other talent to replace him .... then let him go and go on a shopping spree to fill needs. Conversely, you could trade him for a first round pick or multi picks or an OL or DL player or two, and save a bunch of cash. To jump the gun early and spend 65M on a car that you have 6 more of in the garage is just stupid. But then again, there are a lot of stupid decisions that are made throughout the NFL every day. 

 

One of the most important reasons to re-sign Hilton -- beyond the fact that he's very good -- is that if you don't,  if you trade him or let him go after this year,  or anything else you want to do except sign him,  is because it's good for the team.

 

The rest of the team sees that the Colts are willing to pay a player who has performed at a very high level.   The Colts stepped up and paid the man.    If we traded him or let him play out his contract,  what's the message to the other players?

 

That we won't pay unless you're Andrew Luck.    What is the message to Phillips Dorsett?   Donte Moncrief?    Duron Carter?    "Sorry,  as soon as your contract is up we're letting you go because we think you're easily replaceable."    That's not a good message.    Especially not for an organization that prides itself on having a great locker-room and a very close group of players.

 

Re-signing Hilton is good for the Colts on a variety of levels.     Not signing him would've been bad for the Colts on a variety of levels.   Now the Colts can say,  "work hard, play your best,  try to be the best player you can be and we will reward you."   That's a much, much better message to send.

 

So.....   with this done,  it's win-win.    And now it's on to Anthony Castonzo.     And next year,  it's Luck, Fleener and Allen.

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Mr. Ceral Box MBA, pick your battles based on something other than "hype". Fact is ... signing TY to a $39 guaranteed deal at this point was a bone head move, especially since it does not positively affect any other variable, produce you no more output , could have been put off until after the season and in no way improves your ability to overcome a potential 45-7 future drubbing ..... never mind the "plethora" of other variables that you could throw in to the argument.

Your "rationale" as usual is ridiculous.

Resigning TY was boneheaded? Really? Are you even a colts fan or just trolling?

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It amazes me people are actually mad TY got 5/65. That's about the market value for a player of his caliber.

 

And even if you think we overpaid a bit,  we didn't overpay by a lot.     Once Randall Cobb got 4/40 and Jeremy Maclin got 5/55, that meant TYH was going to get at least 11, if not 12 Mill per.      So, he got 13.    OK,  that's the top end of his market.

 

BUT.....

 

His new deal doesn't kick in until next year -- '16.     So, with his '15 salary of 1.54 Mil this year,  his new 6-year number 6 years and 66.54 Mill.     Which works out to 11.09 mill per.       So, Hilton and Rosenhaus can say he's getting 13.    The Colts can say he's getting 11.09 Mil per.    

 

Like I said,  it's a win-win deal all the way around.

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I guess we should let Luck walk too then.

 

People relax, the salary cap is going to keep rising and the Colts will still be able to keep their own and still spend a little in free agency. But we really need to start nailing our draft picks.

 

Grigson knows what he's doing when it comes to structuring guy's contracts.. just sit back and enjoy the season.

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Without Andrew TY is a 65M bust and with Andrew the rest will all be stars. Don't believe it just put MH in at QB and see what happens. I don't think we were a TY 65M contract or Frank Gore $12M contract away from beating the Pats in that 45-7 drubbing. What you needed was an O-line and some defense!

What? TY, a $65mil bust without AL? - Someone help me out. I can't look at this post with a straight face.

"What you needed was an O-Line and some defense!" - Just what do you think the Colts did with FA & the Draft this year? Threw spaghetti up against a wall and hope it stuck?

YiKES!

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the minute dez bryant holded out, was the minute the colts should have extended TY. We probably would have saved 20-25 million more on the contract.

 

TY and his agent were waiting for Dez and Demaryus to sign new deals.    Those two set the market for everyone else.

 

TY and his agent were not interested in doing their deal until Dez and Demaryus got their deals.

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No, they really wouldn't. If I were wrong, then Josh Gordon and Justin Blackmon would still be in the league.

Josh Gordon is not technically out of the league, He is still a Brown, Just suspended for the year. Blackmon is also suspended I believe though unlike Gordon with the Brown nobody in the Jags organization seems to have heard from Blackmon. Regardless what do two players who are not even playing right now have to do with a top 5-10 ACTIVE WR?...The answer is nothing. One WR produces big while also keeping out of trouble while the other two produce big but make bonehead decisions off the field. I can assure you the Jags would rather have Blackmon on the team then not on the team....And the same goes for Gordon with the Browns

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