Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[jvan1973]

I wonder how the owners feel about Goodell throwing away millions of dollars on an investigation that just got laughed out of court?

Except it didn't get laughed out of court. Only those who refuse to read it throughly

Berman started the hearing by saying there were “strengths and weaknesses to both sides here.” And during his questioning of Nash, the judge acknowledged it would be difficult to imagine Brady remaining unaware of doctored footballs.

“He’s the one who throws the ball,” the judge said.

[csmopar]

Round and round we go...when will this circus merry go round end......it's literally all been said 10,000 times now. Let's just wait until a ruling comes out and then we can cut it to shreds....

[Bad Morty]

Except it didn't get laughed out of court. Only those who refuse to read it throughly

Berman started the hearing by saying there were “strengths and weaknesses to both sides here.” And during his questioning of Nash, the judge acknowledged it would be difficult to imagine Brady remaining unaware of doctored footballs.

“He’s the one who throws the ball,” the judge said.

Seriously - if that's all you took out of the hearings today, good luck with that. Berman tore the report apart and stated explicitly that it didn't even come close to linking Brady to any type of "scheme" or "conspiracy" as the league alleges. It was not a good day for Ted Wells.

[dw49]

Except NFL players are the actual people involved. There's a reason why Socrates and Llato thought that democracies were the worst form of government .

 

But your not addressing the fact that 72% of them think your team stabbed footballs.... right buddy ?

[Gramz]

Round and round we go...when will this circus merry go round end......it's literally all been said 10,000 times now. Let's just wait until a ruling comes out and then we can cut it to shreds....

Did someone say circus?

[Gramz]

It's gonna be a two game suspension.   That's all any of us are gonna hear about it.

 

The terms of the settlement will be private and sealed.

 

 

For the Record:   Just my opinion.   Don't ask for a link,  I don't have one.

 

G'nite y'all......

[jvan1973]

Seriously - if that's all you took out of the hearings today, good luck with that. Berman tore the report apart and stated explicitly that it didn't even come close to linking Brady to any type of "scheme" or "conspiracy" as the league alleges. It was not a good day for Ted Wells.

He didn't year it apart at all. If he did he wouldn't have said both sides have strengths in their arguments.

[Bad Morty]

He didn't year it apart at all. If he did he wouldn't have said both sides have strengths in their arguments.

keep the dream alive, brother!

[jvan1973]

keep the dream alive, brother!

That is you. Brady will miss at least one game. You can bank on that

[ColtRider]

I wonder how the owners feel about Goodell throwing away millions of dollars on an investigation that just got laughed out of court?

The last thing anyone doing right now North, South, East & West is "laughed out of court"!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Lol, that one is good.

I liked the one with ET, too.

And the Scream.

 

Rumor has it Brady was a sport, and actually signed her sketch!  If that proves true, that will fetch some $$ on ebay...  LOL!

[OffensivelyPC]

But your not addressing the fact that 72% of them think your team stabbed footballs.... right buddy ?

There are few people on this earth I've had conversations with that are bigger wastes of time talking with than that guy.  Case in point, he was so stuck on his point that he refused to admit Megatron was better than Golden Tate just so he could keep repeating whatever nonsense he was trying to convince everyone of.

[ColtsBlueFL]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/12/deflategate-federal-hearing-tom-brady-roger-goodell-patriots?xid=si_social

 

Great summary here of the court hearing today. Right now it would seem that Berman is favoring Brady/PA in terms of the merits of the case - the Wells report. As much as Pash tried to make it about the CBA, Berman came back to the facts or lack thereof in this case for the league suspending Brady. Not sure the PA/Brady could have asked for a better development today. Berman is still pushing for a settlement which it would seem wise for the NFL to consider at this point but I don't believe they will back off at all. We will see.

 

So what is you settlement proposal that the NFL better accept?

 

All along Berman has pressed for this.  Kessler even tossed out a settlement olive branch to Goodell today.  What do you want, for settlement, what does Kessler want, and we know what Brady wants but now likely can't get unless he wants to play "No Deal" on the last two cases in the game....  and Force Berman's hand on 9/4.

[jabbanobadda]

Did someone say circus?

That did make me laugh! LOL!

[dw49]

There are few people on this earth I've had conversations with that are bigger wastes of time talking with than that guy.  Case in point, he was so stuck on his point that he refused to admit Megatron was better than Golden Tate just so he could keep repeating whatever nonsense he was trying to convince everyone of.

 

 

What resides in this thread , has 5 letters , begins with a m and ends with a n ? 

[ColtRider]

What resides in this thread , has 5 letters , begins with a m and ends with a n ?

am-i-an(noying)?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Still don't have any idea which way the wind blows, but clearly Nash is pushing this-

 

Nash argued that both arbitration and the collective bargaining agreement required the judge to defer to the commissioner's finding. He said Brady was given a fair hearing before Goodell, who has the ultimate and time-honored authority of commissioners to police their sports.

"The responsibility for the protection of the integrity of the National Football League resides with the commissioner," Nash said.

Which I found these earlier-

 

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5 - 3 Thursday (June 2013) that courts can't overturn a class arbitration waiver simply becauseit would cost plaintiffs more to arbitrate the claim than they could possibly recover. Here, attorneys tell Law360 why this ruling is significant.Alden Atkins, Vinson & Elkins LLP "The Supreme Court is sending a strong message that courts should not interfere with arbitration agreements and arbitration decisions. The court held in [AT&T Mobility LLCv. Concepcion] and again today in [American Express Co. v. Italian Colors Restaurant] that parties can define for themselves the procedures for an arbitration, and those agreements should be upheld in the face of arguments challenging the fairness of neutral provisions. When combined with the recent [Oxford Health Plans LLC v. Sutter] decision, which upheld an arbitrator's questionable decision, the Supreme Court is telling lower courts not to interfere with the arbitration process."

 

But Berman was interested in facts of the case. Precedent is not to overturn even if they don't agree with the award decision. Nash is going to press no undue bias, process legal via CBA, and no fraud.  He's getting Goodell & Co. to soften his stance for a settlement... methinks...

[dw49]

am-i-an(noying)?

 

 

ha...

[southwest1]

 

 

 

Yes. I would feel exactly the same if it was another QB. I have been saying for more than a year now that Goodell and his staff are buffoons. This past year easily proved it in spades with this deflated footballs saga as the cherry on top. 

 

Think about this SW. This commish has let an equipment violation rise to the level of a national scandal for months and months usurping his own Super Bowl, off-season and now start of 2015 season because he refused to settle this back in Jan. He now finds himself in federal court today with the sports biggest star of the past 15 years. His punishment to boot all based on circumstantial evidence which also ignores the circumstantial evidence that favors the Pats not tampering was so over the top that even staunch Patriot haters have said it was too harsh including some on this board. The national media has given him a complete bath the last week since the Brady transcript went public and unveiled his lies in his appeals award letter and inconsistencies in the league's position with regards to Wells independence. I have never seen someone hold the position he does and be so dumb. Every NFL fan should be horrified at how this has gone down with the league but given the hate toward the Pats many have simply turned a blind eye which is a shame as this has been a complete embarrassment.

 

Because you are a friend AMF, I will take your concerns seriously out of mutual respect. Okay, lets say for a moment that I accept your premise that Roger Goodell is making a federal case out of a minor equipment violation. Why would Goodell want to sabotage the career of a 4 time SB Champion & 1 of the most popular faces in the NFL that expands the global prestige of the shield itself? I will concede to you that I thought the penalty would be cut in half because Brady during his appeal showed Goodell all the texts he had in reference to deflate gate & attorney Jeffrey Kessler astutely pointed out that the NFL can't specify according to CBA stipulations what rule he broke in writing. I will freely admit that I was surprised even stunned when he maintained the original suspension duration.

 

This case isn't being tried by journalists just 1 lone judge.  

 

Here is an article, SW, by Wetzel of Yahoo that perfectly summarizes my sentiments on this whole thing and underscores the incompetence and lying by Goodell.

 

As Brady-NFL settlement talks begin, unsettling picture continues to emerge on league's conduct

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brady-vs--goodell-hits-new-battleground--but-theme-remains--nfl-isn-t-fighting-fair--062446546.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

 

A few snippets:

 

Even if you suspect Brady is as guilty as sin there is no denying the NFL had a profoundly weak case here.

 

The proof is that the NFL felt compelled to state Brady said the exact opposite of what he actually said, not correct false media stories, hire a non-independent/independent investigator, ignore overwhelming scientific conclusions and even change the verdict after the verdict was rendered – in May, the NFL claimed it was "more probable than not" that Brady was "generally aware" of the deflation; in the July appeal decision, Goodell significantly upped that and despite a lack of additional evidence suddenly claimed Brady "approved of, consented to, and provided inducements and rewards in support of a scheme."

 

If this was a fair and strong investigation, then none of that is needed. If Ted Wells did a good job, then he could've stood on his own. Instead you have a case that can be perhaps best defined by bookend media reports, each false and each extremely prejudicial to Brady and the Patriots.

 

The first came in January via ESPN that 11 of 12 footballs were deflated by more than 2 pounds per square inch, which turned a curiosity into a tidal wave of controversy. The last came in July, via NFL.com, that Brady and the NFLPA sought to have a transcript of his appeals hearing sealed, which was "interpreted by those on the league side as an attempt to keep the destruction of the cellphone from ever becoming public, because Brady's representatives surely knew how dubious that decision would look."

 

Even if the Pats are guilty, this should've been treated as more misdemeanor than felony.

 

Consider, as ProFootballTalk.com pointed out, the penalty for a player who is caught with "stick 'em" on his gloves. This practice would be employed to gain extra grip on the ball, fairly akin to deflating a ball. Under the collective bargaining agreement, a guilty player would be fined $8,681.

 

That's it, eight grand. Get caught a second time and it's $17,363.

Because no one ever cared about the inflation levels of footballs, there is no specific punishment for being "generally aware" of a possibly underinflated football.

 

Thus Goodell was allowed to jump from an $8,681 fine all the way to declaring Brady guilty of "conduct detrimental to the integrity of … the game of professional football" which meant a quarter of the season suspension (plus hitting the Patriots for a million bucks and a first- and fourth-round draft pick).

Really? After eight months and no concrete proof there was no middle ground there?

When I heard some NE fans claim, not you, that they believed that Chris Mortensen lied about the number of deflated balls or was over the top in his unfounded proclamation & therefore, Goodell should force ESPN to issue an apology or retraction to the Patriots organization I was like why? The NFL can't tell ESPN what to do. ESPN is not beholden to the League offices in NY. 

 

Also, what does a stick 'em glove violation have to do with PSI air pressure levels in a football or an elite QB who just won his 4th SB who expects me to believe that he had no clue what 2 ball boys did & whether or not he's a cheater or not? Nothing. Alright, in fairness to you, I get what you are driving at: A stick em violation is a specific penalty spelled out in the CBA along with the amount of the corresponding fee. 

 

To me, the worst thing Brady did in Deflate Gate is not cooperate with an active investigation. It just rubs me the wrong way when a rich QB thinks that the rules don't apply to him. Everything is Ted Wells fault, Roger Goodell's fault, or that nobody told Brady that a failure to comply with an investigation could lead to some kind of suspension. Missing games is irrelevant to me, just own up to the fact that you were wrong Tommy to think you are more important than anyone else in this football league.

 

What's more ridiculous? A Commissioner who remains dug in over maintaining a 4 game suspension over air pressure or a QB who thinks he's bulletproof, beyond reproach, & under no circumstances will he admit he made any mistakes over these many months? 

[southwest1]

Here is what a legal expert said on The Rich Eisen today regarding settlement talks today....Conversation starts at the 1:44 mark BTW...

 

http://www.richeisenshow.com/2015/08/12/legal-analyst-michael-mccann-discusses-geno-smith-incident-tom-brady-appeal-81215/

 

Like GAFT said so eloquently earlier in this thread regarding Clinton Impeachment hearing, don't get "cute" regarding what's your definition of 'general awareness'...

[Bad Morty]

Because you are a friend AMF, I will take your concerns seriously out of mutual respect. Okay, lets say for a moment that I accept your premise that Roger Goodell is making a federal case out of a minor equipment violation. Why would Goodell want to sabotage the career of a 4 time SB Champion & 1 of the most popular faces in the NFL that expands the global prestige of the shield itself? I will concede to you that I thought the penalty would be cut in half because Brady during his appeal showed Goodell all the texts he had in reference to deflate gate & attorney Jeffrey Kessler astutely pointed out that the NFL can't specify according to CBA stipulations what rule he broke in writing. I will freely admit that I was surprised even stunned when he maintained the original suspension duration.

 

This case isn't being tried by journalists just 1 lone judge.  

 

When I heard some NE fans claim, not you, that they believed that Chris Mortensen lied about the number of deflated balls or was over the top in his unfounded proclamation & therefore, Goodell should force ESPN to issue an apology or retraction to the Patriots organization I was like why? The NFL can't tell ESPN what to do. ESPN is not beholden to the League offices in NY. 

 

Also, what does a stick 'em glove violation have to do with PSI air pressure levels in a football or an elite QB who just won his 4th SB who expects me to believe that he had no clue what 2 ball boys did & whether or not he's a cheater or not? Nothing. Alright, in fairness to you, I get what you are driving at: A stick em violation is a specific penalty spelled out in the CBA along with the amount of the corresponding fee. 

 

To me, the worst thing Brady did in Deflate Gate is not cooperate with an active investigation. It just rubs me the wrong way when a rich QB thinks that the rules don't apply to him. Everything is Ted Wells fault, Roger Goodell's fault, or that nobody told Brady that a failure to comply with an investigation could lead to some kind of suspension. Missing games is irrelevant to me, just own up to the fact that you were wrong Tommy to think you are more important than anyone else in this football league.

 

What's more ridiculous? A Commissioner who remains dug in over maintaining a 4 game suspension over air pressure or a QB who thinks he's bulletproof, beyond reproach, & under no circumstances will he admit he made any mistakes over these many months? 

I have heard many people use the argument "Why would Goodell want to go after one of his best players?"...all I can say is this: Have you heard Goodell speak and paid attention to his actions since he became commissioner? I think this guy is incompetent and way over his head. A lot of people will counter with "look how successful the league is under his watch". I'd venture to say we could install anybody from this forum into the commissioner's role and the league would still manage to be successful. The fact is, this guy isn't very credible and I don't trust him to carry out a truly impartial investigation on pretty much anything.

 

In the immediate aftermath of this incident, most of the people on this forum were quick to go on the record with something to the effect of "it doesn't matter what pressure the balls were at...that's not why the Colts lost". That's a very rational and reasonable comment. And Judge Berman essentially made this same comment yesterday in court when he observed that Brady performed better in the 2nd half so what was done didn't provide any advantage.

 

THAT should be the context of this entire scenario, whether you believe the balls were tampered with or not. I think most Patriots fans (myself included) can agree that a guy dragging a bag of footballs into a bathroom looks kind of sketchy. I have gone on record as saying that given the fact that the measurements of the balls being inconclusive as to whether or not they were deflated could suggest that McNally simply gauged them all to make sure the refs didn't screw them over by over-inflating the balls. But I accept the possibility that he also took a small amount of air out of them. But again - it's context. If air was taken out, it was a fractional amount. No refs noticed that the balls were soft, and they spent the entire half handling the Colts balls and the Pats balls. Context.

 

So the worst case scenario we really have here is a ball attendant taking an insignificant amount of air out of a ball and not impacting in any way the competitive play on the field. Yet here we are in Federal Court with the NFL trying to argue that a major cheating conspiracy was in place headed up by a guy who has never had a run-in with the league in his entire career with no evidence to back up the claim (the claim being the conspiracy...not that air might have been let out of balls in one game). That is on Goodell. He succumbed to the pressure from a bunch of bloodthirsty owners still mad about spygate. A good strong commissioner doesn't let that happen. He needs to go.

[amfootball]

So what is you settlement proposal that the NFL better accept?

 

All along Berman has pressed for this.  Kessler even tossed out a settlement olive branch to Goodell today.  What do you want, for settlement, what does Kessler want, and we know what Brady wants but now likely can't get unless he wants to play "No Deal" on the last two cases in the game....  and Force Berman's hand on 9/4.

That is a great question. Lots of speculation on this. I believe Kessler proposed a huge fine to cover the non-coop. He cited the $50k fine for Favre's non-coop so perhaps something more like $200 or $300k?  I don't think Brady or the PA want to accept a one game suspension for non-coop but at this point I think they may be willing to do it to get this over with and clear Brady of the cheating.

 

What is interesting to me is the league wants Brady to accept the findings of the Wells report but he can't as he would then be purging himself given his under oath testimony at the appeal. Also, given the judge cast serious doubt on the league proving Brady had anything to do with the AFCCG balls, the league is going to have to concede on this and this is a HUGE point for them so I think they may refuse and just take a loss here.

 

What I thought was brilliant by Kessler is that he did not try to refute the balls being tampered with. He said that although the PA believes the balls were not tampered with, it is possible that McNally could have done something but he did so without Brady's consent or direction. As someone in the media mentioned, Kessler is defending Brady not the Pats and as we all know the Wells report is the weakest on Brady's involvement and not as weak on the fact that the ball boys may have done something to the balls.

 

I guess we will see. What do you think the offer was?

[amfootball]

Because you are a friend AMF, I will take your concerns seriously out of mutual respect. Okay, lets say for a moment that I accept your premise that Roger Goodell is making a federal case out of a minor equipment violation. Why would Goodell want to sabotage the career of a 4 time SB Champion & 1 of the most popular faces in the NFL that expands the global prestige of the shield itself? I will concede to you that I thought the penalty would be cut in half because Brady during his appeal showed Goodell all the texts he had in reference to deflate gate & attorney Jeffrey Kessler astutely pointed out that the NFL can't specify according to CBA stipulations what rule he broke in writing. I will freely admit that I was surprised even stunned when he maintained the original suspension duration.

 

If you read the appeals transcript, it was clear that the NFL was not aware of the Ideal Gas Law. Vincent said this in his testimony so once the balls were under they attributed all of the deflation to tampering. Vincent said the investigation took place to look at the science. And this IMO is the most critical part of this whole sordid affair. Because of Mort's report that the NFL never bothered to correct, they were then left with the proposition of trying to make the science fit their conclusion of tampering. Once they hired Wells and spent $5 mil they had to justify that so it became either them or Brady to take the fall and they chose Brady. I also think once Brady denied any involvement they had to ratchet things up which is how we come far this with this thing and in fed court which is really mind boggling.

[SteelCityColt]

I wonder how the owners feel about Goodell throwing away millions of dollars on an investigation that just got laughed out of court?

 

I wonder how the owners feel about the people who's refusal to you know maybe own up to this trivial thing created the need for a hugely expensive investigation? 

 

Besides how much of a drop do you think the cost of the investigation is in the ocean of the NFL finances. 

[Nadine]

I wonder how the owners feel about the people who's refusal to you know maybe own up to this trivial thing created the need for a hugely expensive investigation? 

 

Besides how much of a drop do you think the cost of the investigation is in the ocean of the NFL finances. 

I wonder at the way both sides had a hand in blowing this thing way up.  And then one side pointing at the other because the whole thing has been way blown up

[amfootball]

I wonder how the owners feel about the people who's refusal to you know maybe own up to this trivial thing created the need for a hugely expensive investigation? 

 

Besides how much of a drop do you think the cost of the investigation is in the ocean of the NFL finances. 

I agree about the money although the billionaire owners do like their money but more important to them is the media attention that this has drawn. Not sure if you saw Mara's comments from earlier this week but he talked about fatigue with this story and that it needs to end soon. So I don't think they like the fact that Roger has dragged this on and one while spending millions.

 

And I am not sure why people keep saying this would have been over if the Pats or Brady just admitted it. Since when does the NFL need an admittance of guilt to punish a team or player? If the NFL's case was that strong from day one then they could have punished the Pats just based on the evidence but as we know they did not have the solid evidence either with the footballs from the game or with Brady's involvement so really it was up to them to either just hand out a fine to the Pats or try to prove some thing as innocuous as ball tampering with a $5 mil dollar report. They chose the latter and are now in fed court with that report being severely questioned by the judge as well as the independence of Wells and company.

[SteelCityColt]

I wonder at the way both sides had a hand in blowing this thing way up.  And then one side pointing at the other because the whole thing has been way blown up

 

This... 

 

It's gone past the actual offense, past the obstruction of the investigation to the point where both sides are so firmly entrenched that the facts don't really matter any more as it's become a media bases urine production contest. 

 

This is normally the time I call Episode IV, training camp has just started, every team thinks this  year will be better than last and football is back on our screens. I'm giddy at the shiny new rookies, planning my fantasy like a Machiavellian master mind and dreaming of this being the year I finally go full Colt and splash out on a trip to Indy. 

 

Instead, I feel tired, just so darn tired of this whole saga that I don't want to look at NFL news, or really post on here right now as it's just about this which could have been done and dusted months ago. No one has come out of this looking good. 

[ViriLudant]

That is you. Brady will miss at least one game. You can bank on that

Brady will miss 4 or zero. I do not think that he'll take any settlement that involves missing games.

[CoachLite]

 

Still don't have any idea which way the wind blows, but clearly Nash is pushing this-

 

Nash argued that both arbitration and the collective bargaining agreement required the judge to defer to the commissioner's finding. He said Brady was given a fair hearing before Goodell, who has the ultimate and time-honored authority of commissioners to police their sports.

"The responsibility for the protection of the integrity of the National Football League resides with the commissioner," Nash said.

Which I found these earlier-

 

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5 - 3 Thursday (June 2013) that courts can't overturn a class arbitration waiver simply becauseit would cost plaintiffs more to arbitrate the claim than they could possibly recover. Here, attorneys tell Law360 why this ruling is significant.Alden Atkins, Vinson & Elkins LLP "The Supreme Court is sending a strong message that courts should not interfere with arbitration agreements and arbitration decisions. The court held in [AT&T Mobility LLCv. Concepcion] and again today in [American Express Co. v. Italian Colors Restaurant] that parties can define for themselves the procedures for an arbitration, and those agreements should be upheld in the face of arguments challenging the fairness of neutral provisions. When combined with the recent [Oxford Health Plans LLC v. Sutter] decision, which upheld an arbitrator's questionable decision, the Supreme Court is telling lower courts not to interfere with the arbitration process."

 

But Berman was interested in facts of the case. Precedent is not to overturn even if they don't agree with the award decision. Nash is going to press no undue bias, process legal via CBA, and no fraud.  He's getting Goodell & Co. to soften his stance for a settlement... methinks...

 

Yep ^^^

[Gramz]

Brady will miss 4 or zero. I do not think that he'll take any settlement that involves missing games.

Well, any "settlement" will involve missing some games.  

[ViriLudant]

There are few people on this earth I've had conversations with that are bigger wastes of time talking with than that guy. Case in point, he was so stuck on his point that he refused to admit Megatron was better than Golden Tate just so he could keep repeating whatever nonsense he was trying to convince everyone of.

Liar. I've never said such a thing.

[amfootball]

Well, any "settlement" will involve missing some games.  

No a settlement could also be a fine.

[Gramz]

No a settlement could also be a fine.

Settlement is something BOTH sides agree to.   IF there is a settlement in this case, it will involve some suspension.

 

IF the Judge rules, because they can't come to a settlement,  He could rule  on a fine,  I doubt  that will happen.

[amfootball]

Settlement is something BOTH sides agree to.   IF there is a settlement in this case, it will involve some suspension.

 

IF the Judge rules, because they can't come to a settlement,  He could rule  on a fine,  I doubt  that will happen.

That is your opinion though.  A settlement can be anything the two sides agree on.

 

If the judge believes a settlement should have occurred then he can completely rule for one side over the other leaving the loser with nothing. That is why he is putting so much pressure for the settlement so everyone can leave with something in hand.

[Gramz]

That is your opinion though.  A settlement can be anything the two sides agree on.

 

If the judge believes a settlement should have occurred then he can completely rule for one side over the other leaving the loser with nothing. That is why he is putting so much pressure for the settlement so everyone can leave with something in hand.

Do you SERIOUSLY  think the NFL will settle for no suspension?   

[Swan Ronson]

If the petulance both sides have displayed so far is any indication then there won't be any settlement.

[amfootball]

Do you SERIOUSLY  think the NFL will settle for no suspension?   

ColtsBlue just asked me that. I think what is paramount for the NFL is that Brady agree with the findings of the Wells report. That is what they have wanted from the beginning but that appears to be a pipe dream right now as the judge said himself he is having trouble finding where Brady was guilty of anything pertaining to the AFCCG.

 

I believe the NFL may end up having to settle for no suspension unless they feel Brady being uncooperative warrants a game but even that would be unprecedented as the NFL has never suspended for that which is why Kessler cited Favre received a $50 k fine.

 

If past behavior is any indicator for the NFL, I don't believe they settle and the whole things gets vacated. Kessler has already extended the olive branch for settlement by admitting the non-coop. The next move is the NFL so a middle ground can be reached.

[jvan1973]

Brady will miss 4 or zero. I do not think that he'll take any settlement that involves missing games.

If the judge ends up settling it he will

[ColtsBlueFL]

That is a great question. Lots of speculation on this. I believe Kessler proposed a huge fine to cover the non-coop. He cited the $50k fine for Favre's non-coop so perhaps something more like $200 or $300k?  I don't think Brady or the PA want to accept a one game suspension for non-coop but at this point I think they may be willing to do it to get this over with and clear Brady of the cheating.

 

What is interesting to me is the league wants Brady to accept the findings of the Wells report but he can't as he would then be purging himself given his under oath testimony at the appeal. Also, given the judge cast serious doubt on the league proving Brady had anything to do with the AFCCG balls, the league is going to have to concede on this and this is a HUGE point for them so I think they may refuse and just take a loss here.

 

What I thought was brilliant by Kessler is that he did not try to refute the balls being tampered with. He said that although the PA believes the balls were not tampered with, it is possible that McNally could have done something but he did so without Brady's consent or direction. As someone in the media mentioned, Kessler is defending Brady not the Pats and as we all know the Wells report is the weakest on Brady's involvement and not as weak on the fact that the ball boys may have done something to the balls.

 

I guess we will see. What do you think the offer was?

 

I think Brady's team offered to settle for a fine only.  I guess the League wanted >=2 games. If they wanted admission of Guilt, that'll never happen.  That is why they are in court now.

 

A good while back I proposed 1 game suspension for obstruction (and Kessler opened the door for that possibility yesterday, thank goodness!), no public admission of guilt (though pockets of people feeling that he's guilty will never go away, no matter what outcome is eventually reached), and a fine of a token amount.

 

Hopefully Wednesday the 19th, that is what is announce and we move on.  If not, oral arguments begin, I think Judge Berman now concentrates on process and not facts in the Wells report.  And if NFL passes Judge Berman's fire and brimstone muster, the 4 games will hold.  I understand that in the last 68 arbitration cases handed over to Judge Berman, only two of those cases were overturned.  The arbitration award was upheld in 66 out of those 68 cases.

 

If the court overturns the award, I wonder if the floodgates for every player to fill Federal courts dockets with arbitration cases could be considered flung wide open.  That really isn't desirable and upset the whole idea of arbitration in the first place. And may undermines the NFL complete judiciary process.

 

I just have this weird feeling Berman thinks Brady, in this instance, is being over punished, but is culpable to a degree.  So e leans on the NFL to give in and get a settlement.  But if pushed to rule on 9/4/2015, he just may well side with NFL.  I think we have a settlement on 8/19, or a last second agreement just before Judge Berman rules on 9/4.  The parties are contending with “a famous settlement judge," Chief Judge Loretta A. Preska said. “He’s very good at it. He understands people and the pressures on people and he’s always calm himself, never ruffled.”

 

And it is still fact he only overturned 2 of his last 68 arbitration cases.  He confirmed 66.

[ViriLudant]

Well, any "settlement" will involve missing some games.

Based on what we've heard about the NFL, they won't allow anything less than 4.

Brady isn't going to admit to accepting the botched Wells report. The NFL is demanding that.

So it'll come down to Berman.