Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[snkdy]

BREAKING: @NFL asks federal court to confirm Tom Brady suspension. Complaint filed in Manhattan #sportsbiz #NFL #preemptivestrike

— Scott Soshnick (@soshnick)

July 28, 2015

[Superman]

But how far reaching is that agreement? To your personal phone....your home computer? See where that is going? I doubt that language is in the CBA.

 

The NFL didn't try to force Brady to turn over his phone. They asked, he declined, end of story.

[csmopar]

IMO I don't think this will ever go to a higher court. I could be wrong but I don't think Brady will want his phone records or the two equipment men brought into court to testify under oath. I also think that is the reason that Kraft back peddled on his threat to take this to a higher court. I am no expert in the courts or laws pertaining to the courts, just my opinion.

I pray it does, even if it fully clears him, which i dont think it will

[chad72]

Not if they deem those messages private and the NFL to not have the right to read them. They may say Brady is under no obligation to provide his employer with his private phone conversations etc...and make this all mute.

 

If he uses it for work related communications (like I use my iphone), then yes, the NFL may have a right. They will have to use independent parties to isolate work related communications.

[Superman]

BREAKING: @NFL asks federal court to confirm Tom Brady suspension. Complaint filed in Manhattan #sportsbiz #NFL #preemptivestrike

— Scott Soshnick (@soshnick)

July 28, 2015

 

Oh.

 

I don't know what that means or how it works, but it seems substantial.

[dgambill]

they never asked him to turn over the phone. They asked for relevant text messages sent to the ball boys and the info would have been gathered with his representative present

If he was innocent, he wouldn't have destroyed the phone the day after Wells interviewed him

Thats a very good point...and one that I do think the NFL has some legs to argue this on. It is common knowledge that conversations were had since they have some of the messages...this might open the door to gather the rest....but I don't think its a slam dunk that a Judge will side with the NFL and say those private messages on a private phone that the NFL has no ownership of should an employer be compelled to hand over. I still see this as a 50-50....while my feeling that Tom had more knowledge about what was going on and if something did happen went from 50-50 to like 90-10 now.

[chad72]

Oh.

 

I don't know what that means or how it works, but it seems substantial.

 

This may be pre-emptive, before the NFLPA can file in Minnesota or Massachussetts with an NFLPA friendly confine that they are familiar with. The Williams' suspensions overturned and so many examples of that Minnesota court being friendly to the NFLPA.

 

The league is really amping up its response, no doubt here. They are not reacting anymore.

[snkdy]

Oh.

 

I don't know what that means or how it works, but it seems substantial.

 

I think they're trying to keep it out of Minn. court?

[aavmarine]

I would really like to hear what Teddy Bruschi has to say about all this now. After sitting on the NFL network really * off about how innocent Brady was and as a great friend would never violate the integrity of the game.

[BullsColtsFan1]

I would really like to hear what Teddy Bruschi has to say about all this now. After sitting on the NFL network really * off about how innocent Brady was and as a great friend would never violate the integrity of the game.

If it were any other Quarterback he wouldn't be so defensive.  Same goes for Rodney Harrison.

[Valpo2004]

Which is why Brady/NFLPA would be wise to NOT want to go to court. The court will issue a subpoena for the text messages to whoever the wireless carrier is then we all get to see the details of what went on.

 

I'm not sure that the court can do that in a civil matter.

 

Again the court isn't going to look at if Brady actually know about and encouraged deflation of footballs, they are only going to make a ruling on if the decision was reached in a fair matter.  

[Superman]

I think they're trying to keep it out of Minn. court?

 

Which is the key. Doty doesn't like the NFL, and loves to rescue unions.

[dgambill]

The NFL didn't try to force Brady to turn over his phone. They asked, he declined, end of story.

I understand Supes...but that doesn't mean he still wasn't cooperating to the degree that is acceptable. How much cooperation should he be compelled to do.....like I said it could open up a slippery slope. Answering their questions fully and completely but not allowing them to have his phone messages could easily be seen as fully cooperating for a reasonable person. No it isn't 100% cooperation but that doesn't mean that is reasonable cooperation....perhaps the NFL was asking for things that are outside their limits.

[Restored]

Not if they deem those messages private and the NFL to not have the right to read them. They may say Brady is under no obligation to provide his employer with his private phone conversations etc...and make this all mute.

 

If the employer can make the case that requesting phone records was within reason for the investigation of the infraction, it can be justified. Given that a large part of the investigation was centered around the texts exchanged between Brady and the ball boys, it seems VERY reasonable for the NFL to ask to see them, especially when you account for the conditions in which the NFL asked for the records (with lawyer present, records and not actual phone etc.).

[csmopar]

Oh.

 

I don't know what that means or how it works, but it seems substantial.

hmmm, seems like a move to get the case in a court more favorable to the league perhaps?

 

Or maybe even head off an injunction?

[Gramz]

well i certainly hope he was eligible for a free upgrade from his provider!!

I can ALWAYS count on you for a laugh.        Love it..!!!

[Superman]

I understand Supes...but that doesn't mean he still wasn't cooperating to the degree that is acceptable. How much cooperation should he be compelled to do.....like I said it could open up a slippery slope. Answering their questions fully and completely but not allowing them to have his phone messages could easily be seen as fully cooperating for a reasonable person. No it isn't 100% cooperation but that doesn't mean that is reasonable cooperation....perhaps the NFL was asking for things that are outside their limits.

 

That's two separate issues. He refused to turn over the phone or even share messages. Then he destroyed it. I think his level of cooperation was unacceptable, and the Wells report and the rulings from the NFL suggest as much.

 

Separate from that is whether he should be compelled to turn anything over. And in that case, he was NOT compelled. They requested, he declined. None of his rights were infringed upon. But in declining, he didn't offer an acceptable level of cooperation.

[dgambill]

All this said and done....even if the appeal gets his suspension over turned....it won't change public perception of what happened now...and in the end has put a black mark on an upstanding man and a steller career. Brady may win....but he has lost the battle in public opinion now. Maybe he doesn't care...but his actions and his interviews can't be ignored...people will say he hid behind lawyers etc to get back on the field but all his actions suggest guilt and I don't think that was what would have been best for him. Had he come out and verbally disagreed like Kraft but than just accepted a smaller penalty to move on and benefit his team and the game he would have been seen in a much much great light and respect. He may win the battle but lose the war.

[csmopar]

I'm not sure that the court can do that in a civil matter.

They can. Been there, testified there, have the grey hair to prove it

[RockThatBlue]

I wonder if Kraft will apologize? He demanded an apology from the nfl

[Yehoodi]

BREAKING: @NFL asks federal court to confirm Tom Brady suspension. Complaint filed in Manhattan #sportsbiz #NFL #preemptivestrike

— Scott Soshnick (@soshnick)

July 28, 2015

 

I heard this on the radio about 30 minutes ago.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I know legislatures can ask the highest court in their state for an advisory opinion on the constitutionality of a law, but I have never seen a private party ask a court if what it is doing is legal.   Typically, it is the aggrieved party that has standing to file a suit, not the one doing the aggrieving.   

 

Also, it will be interesting if the NFLPA files suit in either Massachusetts or Minnesota, what will happen with the two suits. 

 

Another that I find interesting if the NFL is so sure of itself why the need to seek approval from the courts.

[dgambill]

That's two separate issues. He refused to turn over the phone or even share messages. Then he destroyed it. I think his level of cooperation was unacceptable, and the Wells report and the rulings from the NFL suggest as much.

 

Separate from that is whether he should be compelled to turn anything over. And in that case, he was NOT compelled. They requested, he declined. None of his rights were infringed upon. But in declining, he didn't offer an acceptable level of cooperation.

I disagree. He doesn't work for the government...I don't think he should be compelled to give up any messages that is on his private phone. I have nothing to hide but I wouldn't give up my private phone to my employer nor do I think they have right to any messages compelled or not. To me that doesn't mean I haven't cooperated with them...because I've cooperated up to what is considered REASONABLE. They indeed have the right to suspend me or fire me....and I have the right to claim wrongful termination etc...and I believe in most courts...I would win. Honestly I think Brady wins in the courts and we never see whats in the messages...but all said and done..Brady handled this HORRIBLY..and its costing him. Just my personal opinion.

[snkdy]

Brady told Goodell it's common practice for him destroy his cell phone when he begins using a new one. (via @AdamSchefter & media reports)

— NFL on ESPN (@ESPNNFL)

July 28, 2015

 

Per Goodell's ruling, Tom Brady's previous cell phone (used til 11/6/14) was not destroyed. Only the one he used from then thru early March.

— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo)

July 28, 2015

[pgt_rob]

The courts would likely issue an injunction, permitting Brady to play while the legal process plays out. Long and short, if Brady sues, he's going to play. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000504284/Tom-Brady-could-go-to-court-to-appeal-his-suspension?campaign=Facebook_Video_ITC

 

Gabe Feldman (sports law) @ 2 min mark thinks his changes of winning the case in court is very low because courts like to defer to arbitration decisions. So we will see.

[Restored]

Brady told Goodell it's common practice for him destroy his cell phone when he begins using a new one. (via @AdamSchefter & media reports)

— NFL on ESPN (@ESPNNFL)

July 28, 2015

 

Per Goodell's ruling, Tom Brady's previous cell phone (used til 11/6/14) was not destroyed. Only the one he used from then thru early March.

— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo)

July 28, 2015

 

So common practice to destroy my cell phone but I didn't do it the last time I had one?

[Crush22]

[Valpo2004]

I disagree. He doesn't work for the government...I don't think he should be compelled to give up any messages that is on his private phone. I have nothing to hide but I wouldn't give up my private phone to my employer nor do I think they have right to any messages compelled or not. To me that doesn't mean I haven't cooperated with them...because I've cooperated up to what is considered REASONABLE. They indeed have the right to suspend me or fire me....and I have the right to claim wrongful termination etc...and I believe in most courts...I would win. Honestly I think Brady wins in the courts and we never see whats in the messages...but all said and done..Brady handled this HORRIBLY..and its costing him. Just my personal opinion.

 

Again he wasn't asked to turn over his cell phone only copies of the text messages between him and the 2 Pat's staffers.  

 

There was never a request for a carte blanche look at his cell phone.

 

Sure he wasn't under any legal obligation to do so but his refusal to do so followed by his destruction of the phone screams his guilt.

[ColtRider]

Gotta believe this is why Kraft backed off and accepted the punishment. In light of this, did Belichick know also along with Kraft? If so, remember the warning that was given after SpyGate? One more infraction and it's adios, partner! Very interesting.

[snkdy]

I heard this on the radio about 30 minutes ago.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I know legislatures can ask the highest court in their state for an advisory opinion on the constitutionality of a law, but I have never seen a private party ask a court if what it is doing is legal.   Typically, it is the aggrieved party that has standing to file a suit, not the one doing the aggrieving.   

 

Also, it will be interesting if the NFLPA files suit in either Massachusetts or Minnesota, what will happen with the two suits. 

 

Another that I find interesting if the NFL is so sure of itself why the need to seek approval from the courts.

 

I think it will end with an injunction like Superman mentioned. The suspension will be probably be post-poned.

[pgt_rob]

Patriot fans aren't commenting yet. Staying on their boards gathering ammo to fire later tonight or tomorrow I'm sure... lol

[csmopar]

Brady told Goodell it's common practice for him destroy his cell phone when he begins using a new one. (via @AdamSchefter & media reports)

— NFL on ESPN (@ESPNNFL)

July 28, 2015

 

Per Goodell's ruling, Tom Brady's previous cell phone (used til 11/6/14) was not destroyed. Only the one he used from then thru early March.

— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo)

July 28, 2015

these lies keep getting better and better.....

[snkdy]

Tom Brady has authorized the NFLPA to appeal his case in federal court, per source.

— Jim Trotter (@JimTrotter_NFL)

July 28, 2015

[dw49]

I heard this on the radio about 30 minutes ago.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I know legislatures can ask the highest court in their state for an advisory opinion on the constitutionality of a law, but I have never seen a private party ask a court if what it is doing is legal.   Typically, it is the aggrieved party that has standing to file a suit, not the one doing the aggrieving.   

 

Also, it will be interesting if the NFLPA files suit in either Massachusetts or Minnesota, what will happen with the two suits. 

 

Another that I find interesting if the NFL is so sure of itself why the need to seek approval from the courts.

 

 

Just found this....

 

Maybe nonsense but I'll post it.

 

 

Leg up: NFL asks feds to confirm Brady's ban

Bloomberg's Scott Soshnick reports the NFL has asked the U.S. District Court in Manhattan to "confirm" Tom Brady's four-game suspension.

In other words, they're suing Brady before he can sue them. Brady's 2014-15 decision to slightly under-inflate his footballs has resulted in an all-out war with the league. The SportsBusiness Journal's Daniel Kaplan speculates the league's suit is designed to get the matter out of judge David Doty's jurisdiction in Minnesota. Doty has often been a thorn in the NFL's side. Brady's case is looking a bit shaky amidst the revelation he intentionally destroyed his phone on the day of his meeting with investigator Ted Wells.

[Valpo2004]

Patriot fans aren't commenting yet. Staying on their boards gathering ammo to fire later tonight or tomorrow I'm sure... lol

 

The only responses I've seen from them is in comments on articles about the suspension and their only argument is the ridiculous idea that "Goodell has no proof that Brady destroyed his phone". . . 

 

Except you know that's what Brady told him he did with his phone. 

[Yehoodi]

I think it will end with an injunction like Superman mentioned. The suspension will be probably be post-poned.

 

Yes, there will be an injunction (basically a Stay of the order) until the court will make a determination at whatever level in the process it makes a determination.  Staying an order like this one is not the biggest thing in the world, its not like asking a court to Stay a 2 year sentence based on a conviction of a crime. 

 

For what its worth just heard on the radio that Brady had given the go ahead to file a suit in federal court, so it should be interesting. 

[csmopar]

Patriot fans aren't commenting yet. Staying on their boards gathering ammo to fire later tonight or tomorrow I'm sure... lol

what ammo....they ain't got a gun at all.  The destroying of the phone after requested is the leagues smoking gun.  Pats fans can try all they want.  Brady is a cheater and a liar. 

[Superman]

I disagree. He doesn't work for the government...I don't think he should be compelled to give up any messages that is on his private phone. I have nothing to hide but I wouldn't give up my private phone to my employer nor do I think they have right to any messages compelled or not. To me that doesn't mean I haven't cooperated with them...because I've cooperated up to what is considered REASONABLE. They indeed have the right to suspend me or fire me....and I have the right to claim wrongful termination etc...and I believe in most courts...I would win. Honestly I think Brady wins in the courts and we never see whats in the messages...but all said and done..Brady handled this HORRIBLY..and its costing him. Just my personal opinion.

 

:: facepalm :: 

 

He was NOT compelled. That's my entire point.

 

They asked, he said no. That's not being compelled. 

 

As for whether his refusal is reasonable, that's subjective. But given the considerations Wells and his team claimed they offered Brady -- just show us these couple messages, we don't even need your phone -- I don't have any trouble understanding how anyone associated with the investigation could conclude that he didn't cooperate to a reasonable degree.

[Yehoodi]

Patriot fans aren't commenting yet. Staying on their boards gathering ammo to fire later tonight or tomorrow I'm sure... lol

 

hi . . .

[pgt_rob]

hi . . .

 

Well hey there!

[21isSuperman]

Can someone please explain what the implications are of taking this to federal court?  While the process is going on in federal court, Brady can continue playing.  What can the courts do?  I don't think there will be any implications for the suspension because that's between Brady and his employer.  Or perhaps there is?  Is there any possibility that the court decides to give Brady some sort of punishment (eg. 6 games instead of 4), or not since they aren't his employer?