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Jared Cisneros

Our 2015 draft class Vs Grigson's draft class. Game and rules

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Here's a fun game we can all play. I'm sure a lot of us liked this specific draft, I know a bunch of you who disagreed with a few of his picks. Here's a game that can satisfy a lot of our "armchair gm" needs, as a bunch of Grigson homers on here like to put it.

 

Here are the rules: 

1.) We use the 8 picks in the exact spots that Grigson traded to to build our own personal 2015 draft. This thread can be brought up during the season to check on your team, to brag about your team, or to rib on someone else's team (in good fun of course). Our goal is for our team to outperform Grigson and prove we are a superior GM with less resources. 

 

2.) When making our picks, we can only take someone who was available at that pick in the real draft. So no Shane Ray at 29 for example. Also, a lot of people are going to take Henry Anderson and/or Clayton Geathers, if you want any of the players Grigson chose, the latest you can take one of them is where they were drafted. It's unfair to assume they would of fallen an extra round if the Colts passed on them. 

 

3.) Undrafted free agents can be drafted anytime, but they would probably be best valued in the 7th round. We do have the advantage of knowing how the draft went. We don't have to reach! Be a smart GM! Also, we can't draft La'el Collins as Grigson didn't have this option available. Every other FA is ripe for the picking!

 

4.) The grading system is pretty straightforward, +1 points for a pick that exceeds expectations, 0 points for a pick that meets expectations, and -1 points for a pick that doesn't meet expectations. Not many points will be scored, but a 1st rounder will have higher expectations to meet and will be graded higher than a 7th rounder, so It will still be even. 

 

5.) Here are the draft results for the 7 rounds of the 2015 draft. Use this as a template to create your own draft. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-roundYou'll have to click each round manually to see the players in each individual round. Feel free to use another source, but this one is provided here. 

 

6.) Here is Grigson's draft and our official 2015 Colts NFL draft so you know what you are competing against:

 

1.) Pick 29: Phillip Dorsett WR

2.) Pick 65: D'Joun Smith CB

3.) Pick 93: Henry Anderson DE

4.) Pick 109: Clayton Geathers Safety

5.) Pick 151 David Parry DT

6.) Pick 205 Josh Robinson RB

7.) Pick 207 Amarlo Herrara ILB

8.) Pick 255 Denzelle Good OT

 

7.) Good luck to everybody and I will be making my team shortly, lets have a lot of people do this and keep a lively and fun game and thread going all year. You want to prove you can be a GM? Here's your chance!

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I think most everyone would take La'el Collins in round 7

Thank you for bringing that up, that can't be allowed because Grigson didn't have that advantage.

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If you were reading my rules and went past number 3 already regarding free agents, re-read it. There's a rule regarding La'el Collins that will affect your team.

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If you were reading my rules and went past number 3 already regarding free agents, re-read it. There's a rule regarding La'el Collins that will affect your team.

La'el Collins was eligable to be drafted so Grigson did have the option to draft him. What happened was no GM chose to draft Collins for whatever reason. So according to your rules, he should be allowed to be drafted.

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Here's my team:

 

1:29 Landon Collins SS

3:1   Tyler Lockett WR

3:29 Henry Anderson DE

4:10 T.J. Clemmings OT

5:15 Michael Bennett DT

6:29 Josh Robinson RB

6:31 Hayes Pullard ILB

7:38 Cody Prewitt FS

 

Looking forward to seeing how it does!

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La'el Collins was eligable to be drafted so Grigson did have the option to draft him. What happened was no GM chose to draft Collins for whatever reason. So according to your rules, he should be allowed to be drafted.

You know why he wasn't being drafted, because he threatened not to sign and it's a lot easier said than done to risk a draft pick for nothing. If he would of signed, a GM would of taken him, and it would of been earlier than the 7th. He was getting talked to by the police about a murder at the time. You can't expect Grigson or any other GM to draft him because of that and it won't be allowed here. Too big of an advantage over Grigson's draft. Everyone will do it and it will be a free hit.

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La'el Collins was eligable to be drafted so Grigson did have the option to draft him. What happened was no GM chose to draft Collins for whatever reason. So according to your rules, he should be allowed to be drafted.

 

I'm going to go with Jared on this.  

 

Simple fact is that according to the rules of the NFL draft he can get drafted, refuse to sign, sit a year and go through the draft next year and by all accounts that's what he intended to do.  However he can't do that if he goes undrafted.

 

There is a reason absolutely NO ONE took a shot on him in the late rounds.  If he indicated that he would have signed and played even if drafted in the late rounds you can guarantee SOME TEAM would have taken a shot on him.  I mean dropping a 7th rounder on him would have been extremely low risk, high reward for ANYONE.

 

So we have to operate by what Grigs and every other GM knew at the time.  Collins will not sign if drafted past the 2nd day and therefore the pick would be wasted.  Therefore I think Collins should be off the table.  

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Here is my draft...

 

1- DT Malcom Brown (He would play a lot of NT on passing downs, and would share time with Jones and Langford at DT/DE on running downs. I as a GM would draft plenty of help in the trenches first and foremost.)

 

2- CB D'Joun Smith

 

3- DE/OLB Trey Flowers (Gives us another option for the future at OLB. Can learn for a year under Mathis, and has more promise as a pass rusher than Werner.)

 

4- S Clayton Geathers

 

5- DT/DE Michael Bennett (Gives the Colts DL great depth now with adding Brown and Bennett.)

 

6- RB Josh Robinson

 

7- C/OG Andy Gallik (We are still a little uncertain who will be our C of the future, and Gallik provides another option there. He can also play OG when needed. Is from Boston College so he has the smarts.)

 

8- OT La'el Collins (This pick is obvious. He could easily be the Colts starting RT from day 1 or at least by mid season.)

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I'm going to go with Jared on this.  

 

Simple fact is that according to the rules he can get drafted, refuse to sign, sit a year and go through the draft next year and by all accounts that's what he intended to do.  However he can't do that if he goes undrafted.

 

There is a reason absolutely NO ONE took a shot on him in the late rounds.  If he indicated that he would have signed and played even if drafted in the late rounds you can guarantee SOME TEAM would have taken a shot on him.  I mean dropping a 7th rounder on him would have been extremely low risk, high reward for ANYONE.

 

So we have to operate by what Grigs and every other GM knew at the time.  Collins will not sign if drafted past the 2nd day and therefore the pick would be wasted.  Therefore I think Collins should be off the table.  

I still would have taken a chance on him in round 7. Round 7 picks rarely work out anyways so why not take a risk on a very talented player who if works out could start for 10 plus years at RT.

 

Plus he wasnt allowed to re-enter the 2016 draft so he had to either be drafted or sign as an UFA.

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You know why he wasn't being drafted, because he threatened not to sign and it's a lot easier said than done to risk a draft pick for nothing. If he would of signed, a GM would of taken him, and it would of been earlier than the 7th. He was getting talked to by the police about a murder at the time. You can't expect Grigson or any other GM to draft him because of that and it won't be allowed here. Too big of an advantage over Grigson's draft. Everyone will do it and it will be a free hit.

 

Your game, your rules.

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I'm going to go with Jared on this.  

 

Simple fact is that according to the rules of the NFL draft he can get drafted, refuse to sign, sit a year and go through the draft next year and by all accounts that's what he intended to do.  However he can't do that if he goes undrafted.

 

There is a reason absolutely NO ONE took a shot on him in the late rounds.  If he indicated that he would have signed and played even if drafted in the late rounds you can guarantee SOME TEAM would have taken a shot on him.  I mean dropping a 7th rounder on him would have been extremely low risk, high reward for ANYONE.

 

So we have to operate by what Grigs and every other GM knew at the time.  Collins will not sign if drafted past the 2nd day and therefore the pick would be wasted.  Therefore I think Collins should be off the table.  

Thank you as well Valpo! This will make the game a bit better as the last pick is basically picking an UDFA and will take some skill.

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1:29 Landon Collins SS
3:1   Tyler Lockett WR
3:29 Paul Dawson ILB (hurts, bc Anderson is one of my favorite players from this draft)
4:10 Grady Jarrett DT
5:15 Michael Bennett DT
6:29 Gerod Holliman SS
6:31 Jeremy Langford RB
7:38 Quinton Spain OG

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1.Phillip Dorsett-WR

3.D'Joun Smith-CB

3.Grady Jarrett-DT

4.T.J. Clemmings -T/G

5.Josh Robinson-RB

6.Ifo Ekpre-Olumu-CB

6.Anthony Harris-S

7.Ryan Delaire-Pass Rusher

7.Caleb Schaffitzel-S....Why another Safety? If for no other reason I'd enjoy announcers trying to say his last name...I think he would make a good special teamer...Also totally unrelated to football he is going into wildlife conservation...I admire that a lot....Was a good player as well

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Hmm I only really have strong feelings about the first round pick so this is a bit tougher.  I think on some of it I will defer to Grig's pick.

 

29: Malcom Brown - With our losses and our troubles against Patriots RB's, DL should be first priority.

 

65: D'Joun Smith - Need a CB, right range.

 

93 TJ Clemmings - Struggled with this one a lot but seemed like a guy who could start at guard and compete with Mewhort for the RT job later on.  I considered an RB or a safety here too.  But Clemmings upside is too great to pass up.

 

109: Adrian Amos - Not bothered by Geathers too much, but I prefer safeties be better in coverage.  My understanding is Amos is better then Geathers in coverage.

 

151: David Parry - PFF was pretty big on this guy and he fills a need.  Maybe he can stand out at NT.

 

205: Josh Robinson - Right pick here to go RB.

 

207: Obum Gwacham - I doubt Armarlo Herrara could realistically push his way into even a rotational role.  However Gwacham from my reading has some athletic upside and could potentially be a rotational pass rusher.  Outside of Newsome and Werner (bust) our current pass rushers are over 30.

 

255: Denzell Goode - No one had ever heard of him before but Grigs must have some reason he drafted this guy.  2nd to last pick of the last round. . . why not?

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I still would have taken a chance on him in round 7. Round 7 picks rarely work out anyways so why not take a risk on a very talented player who if works out could start for 10 plus years at RT.

 

Plus he wasnt allowed to re-enter the 2016 draft so he had to either be drafted or sign as an UFA.

 

My information is that the rules are that if you are drafted and you refuse to sign you can go into the next draft.  If this is the case then drafting him would be a bad idea.  

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1.Phillip Dorsett-WR

3.D'Joun Smith-CB

3.Grady Jarrett-DT

4.T.J. Clemmings -T/G

5.Josh Robinson-RB

6.Ifo Ekpre-Olumu-CB

6.Anthony Harris-S

7.Ryan Delaire-Pass Rusher

7.Caleb Schaffitzel-S....Why another Safety? If for no other reason I'd enjoy announcers trying to say his last name...I think he would make a good special teamer...Also totally unrelated to football he is going into wildlife conservation...I admire that a lot....Was a good player as well

Hey Gavin, we traded our 7th rounder to move up and get Parry, so we only have our compensatory 7th too pick with. You'll have to get rid of one of your 7ths.

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My information is that the rules are that if you are drafted and you refuse to sign you can go into the next draft.  If this is the case then drafting him would be a bad idea.  

 

And that's accurate. He could have held out and reentered the draft in 2016, but only if he were actually drafted in 2015.

 

He would not have been allowed to enter the supplemental draft (which I think is kind of bogus, but that's the rule). 

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1:29 Landon Collins SS

3:1   Tyler Lockett WR

3:29 Paul Dawson ILB (hurts, bc Anderson is one of my favorite players from this draft)

4:10 Grady Jarrett DT

5:15 Michael Bennett DT

6:29 Gerod Holliman SS

6:31 Jeremy Langford RB

7:38 Quinton Spain OG

 

First 6 picks are all top ~75 players in the draft. Well done. 

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7.Caleb Schaffitzel-S....Why another Safety? If for no other reason I'd enjoy announcers trying to say his last name...I think he would make a good special teamer...Also totally unrelated to football he is going into wildlife conservation...I admire that a lot....Was a good player as well

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1.Kendricks instead.....In the interest of who I thought BPA was at time of our pick....Not mad at all with the Dorsett pick however

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I still would have taken a chance on him in round 7. Round 7 picks rarely work out anyways so why not take a risk on a very talented player who if works out could start for 10 plus years at RT.

 

Plus he wasnt allowed to re-enter the 2016 draft so he had to either be drafted or sign as an UFA.

 

Wrong. If he was drafted, he would be allowed to hold out and re-enter the draft next year. Hence why his agent threatened to do it. It was the only small slice of leverage that he had.

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1:29 Landon Collins SS

3:1 Tyler Lockett WR

3:29 Paul Dawson ILB (hurts, bc Anderson is one of my favorite players from this draft)

4:10 Grady Jarrett DT

5:15 Michael Bennett DT

6:29 Gerod Holliman SS

6:31 Jeremy Langford RB

7:38 Quinton Spain OG

this would have been an amazing draft.....
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I just was not high on Bennett....I also wanted no part of Holliman and his inexcusably bad tackling efforts

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You know why he wasn't being drafted, because he threatened not to sign and it's a lot easier said than done to risk a draft pick for nothing. If he would of signed, a GM would of taken him, and it would of been earlier than the 7th. He was getting talked to by the police about a murder at the time. You can't expect Grigson or any other GM to draft him because of that and it won't be allowed here. Too big of an advantage over Grigson's draft. Everyone will do it and it will be a free hit.

Yes, but La'el Collins wasn't being indicted though. Mike Mayock mentioned this on NFL Network with Rich Eisen during the draft. He was assisting the police with the investigation at LSU. He wasn't a primary suspect in a homicide. I wouldn't have shied away from Collins as an NFL GM. Don't you want a player to fully comply with the authorities? Why was this deemed so toxic by NFL front offices? I still don't get it.  

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I just was not high on Bennett....I also wanted no part of Holliman and his inexcusably bad tackling efforts

 

I would have moved Holliman to CB, maybe third safety at times. His coverage is pretty good, and he probably had the best ball skills in the draft.

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Yes, but La'el Collins wasn't being indicted though. Mike Mayock mentioned this on NFL Network with Rich Eisen during the draft. He was assisting the police with the investigation at LSU. He wasn't a primary suspect in a homicide. I wouldn't have shied away from Collins as an NFL GM. Don't you want a player to fully comply with the authorities? Why was this deemed so toxic by NFL front offices? I still don't get it.  

 

At the time there is good reason to believe that he may have been a suspect though.  

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First 6 picks are all top ~75 players in the draft. Well done. 

 

Where's yours?

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At the time there is good reason to believe that he may have been a suspect though.

Still, risking a 5-6-7 rounder wouldn't have been a big deal. I still can't believe Collins wasn't drafted......more evidence that the NFL is full of geniuses.

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Still, risking a 5-6-7 rounder wouldn't have been a big deal. I still can't believe Collins wasn't drafted......more evidence that the NFL is full of geniuses.

 

Again people keep missing the point.  If he's drafted he has the ability to hold out and re-file for the 2016 draft which is EXACTLY what he threatened to do if he wasn't drafted in the 3rd round or higher.

 

It would have been a complete waste.  

 

The reason he wanted this is because late round picks don't make much more then UDFA's but a UDFA can have his entire salary guaranteed.  Which is exactly what he did.  

 

http://overthecap.com/player/lael-collins/4105/

 

He can't get guarantees like that when he's drafted.  So therefore instead of playing for only slightly more money and risking injury he threatened to hold out and go for the 2016 draft.  Because of this he was not drafted (which is what he wanted) and was able to sign a contract that guaranteed his fully salary for the next 3 years.

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Again people keep missing the point.  If he's drafted he has the ability to hold out and re-file for the 2016 draft which is EXACTLY what he threatened to do if he wasn't drafted in the 3rd round or higher.

 

It would have been a complete waste.  

 

The reason he wanted this is because late round picks don't make much more then UDFA's but a UDFA can have his entire salary guaranteed.  Which is exactly what he did.  

 

http://overthecap.com/player/lael-collins/4105/

 

He can't get guarantees like that when he's drafted.  So therefore instead of playing for only slightly more money and risking injury he threatened to hold out and go for the 2016 draft.  Because of this he was not drafted (which is what he wanted) and was able to sign a contract that guaranteed his fully salary for the next 3 years.

 

His contract could have been fully guaranteed as a late draft pick. That's a point of negotiation, same as a UDFA. Less leverage for the player when he's drafted, though, since one team has his rights, and there's no bidding war, but it's still a point of negotiation.

 

The big difference between being drafted late and being a UDFA is that he can renegotiate his contract after just two years as a UDFA, instead of the minimum three years for a draft pick.

 

You're right on with everything else.

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His contract could have been fully guaranteed as a late draft pick. That's a point of negotiation, same as a UDFA. Less leverage for the player when he's drafted, though, since one team has his rights, and there's no bidding war, but it's still a point of negotiation.

 

The big difference between being drafted late and being a UDFA is that he can renegotiate his contract after just two years as a UDFA, instead of the minimum three years for a draft pick.

 

You're right on with everything else.

 

Did not know late rounders could get their entire salary guaranteed.  However you are right with the lower leverage he would have had it would have been difficult to do.  

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Did not know late rounders could get their entire salary guaranteed.  However you are right with the lower leverage he would have had it would have been difficult to do.  

 

Yup, that's why players whining about not having fully guaranteed contracts is annoying to me. There's nothing prohibiting it for any player at any time. It's all a point of negotiation, and if a UDFA like La'el Collins can get a fully guaranteed contract, then there's obvious no rules against anyone else getting it. 

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Again people keep missing the point.  If he's drafted he has the ability to hold out and re-file for the 2016 draft which is EXACTLY what he threatened to do if he wasn't drafted in the 3rd round or higher.

 

It would have been a complete waste.  

 

The reason he wanted this is because late round picks don't make much more then UDFA's but a UDFA can have his entire salary guaranteed.  Which is exactly what he did.  

 

http://overthecap.com/player/lael-collins/4105/

 

He can't get guarantees like that when he's drafted.  So therefore instead of playing for only slightly more money and risking injury he threatened to hold out and go for the 2016 draft.  Because of this he was not drafted (which is what he wanted) and was able to sign a contract that guaranteed his fully salary for the next 3 years.

Again people keep missing the point.  If he's drafted he has the ability to hold out and re-file for the 2016 draft which is EXACTLY what he threatened to do if he wasn't drafted in the 3rd round or higher.

 

It would have been a complete waste.  

 

The reason he wanted this is because late round picks don't make much more then UDFA's but a UDFA can have his entire salary guaranteed.  Which is exactly what he did.  

 

http://overthecap.com/player/lael-collins/4105/

 

He can't get guarantees like that when he's drafted.  So therefore instead of playing for only slightly more money and risking injury he threatened to hold out and go for the 2016 draft.  Because of this he was not drafted (which is what he wanted) and was able to sign a contract that guaranteed his fully salary for the next 3 years.

I'm not missing the point. I would have still drafted him late and called his bluff.....unless he really wanted to sit out a whole yr of football. Doing that is not usually good for ones career.

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I'm not missing the point. I would have still drafted him late and called his bluff.....unless he really wanted to sit out a whole yr of football. Doing that is not usually good for ones career.

 

Your point NOW looks reasonable and even obvious....     the reason is we're all operating with 20/20 hindsight.

 

Collins was cleared by law enforcement of a double-murder.

 

But at the time a decision had to be made,  he had not only not been cleared,  he looked like a pretty solid suspect.   There's a reason why all 32 teams passed on drafting La'el Collins.    He was radio-active and no one wanted to touch him until he was cleared.

 

Nothing was obvious back then.....     and that's the difference.

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Your point NOW looks reasonable and even obvious....     the reason is we're all operating with 20/20 hindsight.

 

Collins was cleared by law enforcement of a double-murder.

 

But at the time a decision had to be made,  he had not only not been cleared,  he looked like a pretty solid suspect.   There's a reason why all 32 teams passed on drafting La'el Collins.    He was radio-active and no one wanted to touch him until he was cleared.

 

Nothing was obvious back then.....     and that's the difference.

Sure, but why not take a flyer with a 6-7th round pick? You're virtually risking nothing for a big payoff. And as far as I know, which isn't much, wasn't he simply being interviewed by the police because he used to date the woman? It's not like there was a bloody glove or anything.

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Sure, but why not take a flyer with a 6-7th round pick? You're virtually risking nothing for a big payoff. And as far as I know, which isn't much, wasn't he simply being interviewed by the police because he used to date the woman? It's not like there was a bloody glove or anything.

A person of interest can go from just that to the killer in a matter of a couple hours or a couple days. It happens often. Just watch The First 48. An officer can be easily interviewing the killer and not know it at the time (Do to not having the evidence at the time of the interview) then they find the evidence they need. Next thing ya know ya just interviewed the killer

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Sure, but why not take a flyer with a 6-7th round pick? You're virtually risking nothing for a big payoff. And as far as I know, which isn't much, wasn't he simply being interviewed by the police because he used to date the woman? It's not like there was a bloody glove or anything.

 

It's more then just a simple football decision.  There is a bit of PR to worry about as well.

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