NFL Players Mad Over NBA Guaranteed Money

[oldunclemark]

If you gave a player an absurd contract or he isn't performing up to expectation, then it's on the team. There's consequences for every decision a team make. They shouldn't be allowed to duck out a deal. They gave that player a deal and they should be held accountable if he turns out to be a screw up.

But if you're an owner...why shouldnt you sign a labor deal that says that some years at the back end of a contract are not guaranteed.

Its a sport where, natural performance declines aside, you can be virtually certain that 5 to 10 of your players will go on injured reserve every year and some will not recover their full ability. What do you, the owner, get from agreeing to pay 5-10% of your roster that may lose their ability to perform in day one of the 5-year deal?

The cold truth is: The owners wouldn't make as much money if all contracts were guaranteed.

They share the wealth and still profit greatly. What argument can be made to them to accept less profit?

[NewColtsFan]

An average NBA roster is 15 players.    Add a few more for injured replacements and such,  and you're talking about roughly 20 players -- max -- for a season.

 

An NFL roster is 53 players,  then add 10 more for the practice squad (now we're at 63) and you can likely add 12-17 more for DL replacements and now you're at about 75-80 for a season.

 

In other words,  an NFL roster is roughly three times the size of an NBA roster.    That's part of the difference in salaries for the two groups of players.

 

As for how much is guaranteed......   I'm sympathetic to NFL players,  but only up to a point.   Plenty of examples in thread on why NBA-like guarantees are not practical or advisable for a well-run sports league.

 

So,  should NFL players get more guarantees and protections and higher minimums?    You bet.    But on par with NBA contracts?     No,  not at all.     If anything,  NBA contracts should move in the opposite direction -- toward NFL contracts.    That's not going to happen,   but I think on some level,  it should....

 

Just my two cents......

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Baseball season 162 games

Basketball season 82 games

Football season 16 games

Whine and cry spoiled brats

[NewColtsFan]

An average NBA roster is 15 players.    Add a few more for injured replacements and such,  and you're talking about roughly 20 players -- max -- for a season.

 

An NFL roster is 53 players,  then add 10 more for the practice squad (now we're at 63) and you can likely add 12-17 more for DL replacements and now you're at about 75-80 for a season.

 

In other words,  an NFL roster is roughly three times the size of an NBA roster.    That's part of the difference in salaries for the two groups of players.

 

As for how much is guaranteed......   I'm sympathetic to NFL players,  but only up to a point.   Plenty of examples in thread on why NBA-like guarantees are not practical or advisable for a well-run sports league.

 

So,  should NFL players get more guarantees and protections and higher minimums?    You bet.    But on par with NBA contracts?     No,  not at all.     If anything,  NBA contracts should move in the opposite direction -- toward NFL contracts.    That's not going to happen,   but I think on some level,  it should....

 

Just my two cents......

 

Just looked over my own post and found some bad math.....   Uuuggh!

 

An NFL roster is not 3 times the size of an NBA roster,  it's 3.5 to 4 times the size.    Bigger than I first posted on.

 

Sorry for the faulty math......     my bad!                  

[Jules]

I love it when rich jocks all complain about money.....lol

[GoColts8818]

Nope, the NFL is the league where good players get cut because their salaries don't match their production. You'll never see barely average role players taking up 7-10% of the cap. The money might be ridiculous, but aside from young stars on rookie contracts, players typically get paid in accordance with their value and production.

It will still inflate for them when the TV deal goes up.  Are they going to be as rich as the NBA players?  No, but that's going to come with a roster of 53 vs 12.  Still with the next TV deal NFL players too will get a raise across the board even if it's not as big as NBA players. 

[Solon]

But if you're an owner...why shouldnt you sign a labor deal that says that some years at the back end of a contract are not guaranteed.

Its a sport where, natural performance declines aside, you can be virtually certain that 5 to 10 of your players will go on injured reserve every year and some will not recover their full ability. What do you, the owner, get from agreeing to pay 5-10% of your roster that may lose their ability to perform in day one of the 5-year deal?

The cold truth is: The owners wouldn't make as much money if all contracts were guaranteed.

They share the wealth and still profit greatly. What argument can be made to them to accept less profit?

 

The owners wouldn't make as much money if all contracts were guaranteed, but they wouldn't be making any money if the players weren't playing. And on top of that, NFL contracts aren't inflated like baseball and today's NBA. I don't see teams losing that much. 

[lollygagger8]

[Narcosys]

Actually that does sound fair.

If you define injured as 'injured reserve' I think the owners and the NFLPA might go for that.

You would have a lot of players howling when they get put on injured reserve though.

The players would lie and say they weren't hurt to collect the full check...

They wouldn't be the ones to assess that tho. And the team isn't likely to put people on injured reserve quickly when they need them to start.

[Superman]

It will still inflate for them when the TV deal goes up.  Are they going to be as rich as the NBA players?  No, but that's going to come with a roster of 53 vs 12.  Still with the next TV deal NFL players too will get a raise across the board even if it's not as big as NBA players. 

 

The NFL is looking to get to $25B yearly revenue within the next ten years. Other cap increases are built into the CBA, with total player compensation reaching 48% by 2020, on top of greater revenues. Minimum salaries will automatically grow. So yeah, I agree that they're getting raises, and the money is definitely ridiculous in real world terms. But NFL salaries are always going to be held in check by the hard cap and non-guaranteed money, especially in relation to the NBA and MLB. 

[Superman]

The owners wouldn't make as much money if all contracts were guaranteed, but they wouldn't be making any money if the players weren't playing. And on top of that, NFL contracts aren't inflated like baseball and today's NBA. I don't see teams losing that much. 

 

Players aren't losing that much, either. This guaranteed money argument is players who are the least likely to finish a contract saying that they want to be paid whether they can play or not. And while I get it, especially given the nature of the sport, the owners aren't going to let that happen, nor should they. 

[Solon]

Players aren't losing that much, either. This guaranteed money argument is players who are the least likely to finish a contract saying that they want to be paid whether they can play or not. And while I get it, especially given the nature of the sport, the owners aren't going to let that happen, nor should they. 

 If you're literally going to put your life on the line to play this sport, your money should be guaranteed. 

[Superman]

 If you're literally going to put your life on the line to play this sport, your money should be guaranteed. 

 

That appeal to emotion doesn't mean any business should pay for something they probably aren't going to receive. Especially when we're talking about tens of millions of dollars for what amounts to entertainment. 

[amfootball]

 If you're literally going to put your life on the line to play this sport, your money should be guaranteed. 

That seems a tad bit dramatic. We are talking sports entertainment not the military.

[Solon]

That appeal to emotion doesn't mean any business should pay for something they probably aren't going to receive. Especially when we're talking about tens of millions of dollars for what amounts to entertainment. 

Entertainment that puts your livelihood in jeopardy. One hit away from being a quadriplegic. They're out there to entertain us and to make the owners money. It's like dam, we can't guarantee they'll receive their money.

 

That seems a tad bit dramatic. We are talking sports entertainment not the military.

 

It's not the military, but when you're one hit away from tearing a muscle in your heart, it's not so dramatic.

[southwest1]

The roster size alone makes it quite difficult to pay NFL players the huge contracts that the NBA and MLB pay their players. The NBA and MLB have so many more games to collect money on while the NFL only has 16 plus the playoffs. Even the playoff systems are so different. NFL doesn't have the best of 7 in their playoff system.

Bingo CC1! The duration of the football season is dramatically different from the basketball or baseball season overall & for that reason alone the NFL can't match MLB or the NBA in earning potential player wise. 

[Superman]

Entertainment that puts your livelihood in jeopardy. One hit away from being a quadriplegic. They're out there to entertain us and to make the owners money. It's like dam, we can't guarantee they'll receive their money.

 

You can get insurance to protect your potential future earnings. Guaranteed money is a point of negotiation on each individual contract. It's not like no one is ever guaranteed any compensation.

 

It's also not like anyone is forcing these guys to play football, nor are cheaply compensated. Rookie minimum is actually a ridiculous wage for anyone in their early 20s, whether the work is risky or not. An NFL rookie gets paid in one season what the average person takes ten years to make. I don't begrudge the money that pro athletes make, but I'm also not losing any sleep over their lack of guaranteed contracts.

 

Also, as I said earlier, there are several things the NFL and union should do to promote the well being, development and longevity of the players, including care and assistance after they leave the league. I'm not arguing that they should hang the players out to dry. 

[southwest1]

 

 

 

It's not the military, but when you're one hit away from tearing a muscle in your heart, it's not so dramatic.

If we're taking brain trauma or blown knees, I'll give you some sympathy here in terms of the brutal rigors of football & the damage a long career can result in Solon, but heart problems no. That's pretty rare on the scale of NFL pitfalls IMO. Also, no one put a gun to an athlete's head & forced them to play ball for 10-12 years either. The NFL is not the same as a mandatory military draft either. 

 

I get your point: Anybody is just 1 collision away from a life altering injury, but risk is part of everyday life & anybody can be injured traveling on their way to work on or off a football field. 

[southwest1]

 If you're literally going to put your life on the line to play this sport, your money should be guaranteed. 

If you wanna talk about receiving a bigger piece of the TV & satellite broadcasting revenue rights in the next CBA, I'm cool with having that discussion for players. However, like CC1 said, how are you going to adhere to a salary cap, guarantee full contracts, & only play 20 weeks maximum? The NBA has over 80 games to play. How can the NFL match that salary wise? It can't. 

[southwest1]

You can get insurance to protect your potential future earnings. Guaranteed money is a point of negotiation on each individual contract. It's not like no one is ever guaranteed any compensation.

 

It's also not like anyone is forcing these guys to play football, nor are cheaply compensated. Rookie minimum is actually a ridiculous wage for anyone in their early 20s, whether the work is risky or not. An NFL rookie gets paid in one season what the average person takes ten years to make. I don't begrudge the money that pro athletes make, but I'm also not losing any sleep over their lack of guaranteed contracts.

 

Also, as I said earlier, there are several things the NFL and union should do to promote the well being, development and longevity of the players, including care and assistance after they leave the league. I'm not arguing that they should hang the players out to dry. 

Nice post Superman. My only issue is this: "including care and assistance after they leave the league." Former players shouldn't be required to hire legal representation to get the surgeries & medical benefits they are entitled to receive by virtue of just playing. There needs to be a better verification method of player confirmation than hiring a lawyer to me. Can't the league just create a database based on a guys social security number cross referenced with the team or team's a guy played for & their tenure determines how long they are eligible for treatment? 

 

I wouldn't put limits on medical care myself for players given that the League is a multi-billion dollar industry & is the most popular sport in the world. I'm not blaming you Superman. I just get upset when the NFL tries to pretend it's poor & it's clearly not. 

 

Again, a very well written reply. If the veteran's administration can provide health care for former soldiers, why not the NFL? Yeah I know, the VA has had some serious glitches over the years, but you get what I'm driving at. Enough said. 

 

I know; I know what happens if this NFL database with players medical records gets hacked into? A valid concern. My only solution is fancy encryption software requiring the answer to more than 1 security firewall question before the files can be seen/accessed. There's no fool proof safe site procedure, but there are things the IT team can do to make a hacker's penetration of their system more challenging to overcome. 

[southwest1]

Baseball season 162 games

Basketball season 82 games

Football season 16 games

Whine and cry spoiled brats

LOL! Blunt, but a very compelling argument FFW. "Spoiled brats" is a tad harsh, but I catch your drift.

 

Just for laughs & giggles, I'd love to see owners have to justify why they are entitled to all the broadcast pie. Yes, I'm sure that the electricity is not cheap or the upkeep. Not to mention several other events hosted in a stadium besides football. But remember, state legislatures from taxes pay for a significant portion of the money needed to build stadiums so it's not like most owners are paying for the land or the building entirely from scratch either.  

 

I'd love to see citizens own a piece of a franchise. Green Bay does this, but the piece of stock a fan owns is symbolic at best & basically meaningless. The Miami Dolphins has celebrities buy into it as part of an investment group, but I always wonder what power if any they have other than a preferred seating section in luxury boxes at home games. So essentially, they are nothing more than platinum member season ticket holders & that's it right? 

 

Still, it would be cool to rub elbows with Jim Irsay, Pat McAfee, & Robert Mathis wandering thru LOS once in awhile. That would be so awesome! Yeah I know, I have an affinity for musicians & comedians that's true, but if I had behind the scenes access to the best team in football, I'd definitely take advantage of it. 

[southwest1]

I love it when rich jocks all complain about money.....lol

True, but I always wonder why owners & front office management always want superstar athletes to take a hometown discount for the good of the team. 

 

I'm sorry didn't my touchdowns or tackles win playoff games which generated more TV publicity, brand appeal, & jersey sales? Why shouldn't they be compensated? 

 

My issue is with owners who love to lay loyalty guilt trips on athletes to lower their value to a team, city, or fanbase. It's the vital cog argument vs production argument. 

 

Yes, I know. You can't pay & keep everybody.

 

Just once I'd like to see a coach be asked to "restructure" his contract as opposed to any other given player on the roster minus the quarterback or premier left tackle. It will never happen, but it's okay to ponder about as a freak, landmark event. 

[bababooey]

Either Bonilla was incredibly forward thinking or he had the best agent ever. That's a sweet deal.

He didn't. The mets owners were victims of madoff's Ponzi scheme so the "returns" they were earning made sense for the cheap Wilpons to defer his salary as they were making more investing w madoff. the mets do a lot of stupid things but this one was not their fault.

[bababooey]

If you're literally going to put your life on the line to play this sport, your money should be guaranteed.

A lot of people would put their "life on the line" for fame and fortune but don't get the chance. A lot of others know it's a choice and don't want to have issues later in life. For example David Wilson of NYG or half the 49ers roster from last year.

[Jason_]

 If you're literally going to put your life on the line to play this sport, your money should be guaranteed. 

 

It's their choice to play the game.  No one is forcing them.  They know the risks. 

[Superman]

From Andrew Brandt:

3. I think that, despite the vast disparity between guaranteed contracts in leagues like the NBA and MLB compared to the NFL, there are some misconceptions at play. There is nothing in the CBA restricting guarantees on contracts; guarantees are a function of individual negotiations, not collective ones. Gains in this area have to come from superstars willing to negotiate aggressively to change the status quo. Players such as Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson could break the seal on fully guaranteed veteran contracts, but that would have to be next year, as they don’t have that leverage this year with a reasonable contract year remaining.

 

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/07/06/europe-week-football-nfl/5/

[Superman]

Nice post Superman. My only issue is this: "including care and assistance after they leave the league." Former players shouldn't be required to hire legal representation to get the surgeries & medical benefits they are entitled to receive by virtue of just playing. There needs to be a better verification method of player confirmation than hiring a lawyer to me. Can't the league just create a database based on a guys social security number cross referenced with the team or team's a guy played for & their tenure determines how long they are eligible for treatment? 

 

I wouldn't put limits on medical care myself for players given that the League is a multi-billion dollar industry & is the most popular sport in the world. I'm not blaming you Superman. I just get upset when the NFL tries to pretend it's poor & it's clearly not. 

 

Again, a very well written reply. If the veteran's administration can provide health care for former soldiers, why not the NFL? Yeah I know, the VA has had some serious glitches over the years, but you get what I'm driving at. Enough said. 

 

I know; I know what happens if this NFL database with players medical records gets hacked into? A valid concern. My only solution is fancy encryption software requiring the answer to more than 1 security firewall question before the files can be seen/accessed. There's no fool proof safe site procedure, but there are things the IT team can do to make a hacker's penetration of their system more challenging to overcome. 

 

Not sure if you're aware, but the NFL does provide care and support for former players. I think they can/should do more, but it's not nonexistent. If you play three years in the NFL, you get a pension and benefits. Etc., etc. 

[OffensivelyPC]

The players complaint really falls on deaf ears and doesn't really acknowledge the economics of it all.  There's only so much money to go around in the NFL and the players already get about half of what the NFL makes anyway.  Players already negotiate for guaranteed amounts, with performance enhancers and the like.  This affords them longer deals which is a benefit to the players - security if they perform (EDIT: Which by the way, this very argument is the same argument that resulted the NFL and NFLPA agreeing to lower the rookie wage scale - teams suffering huge paying contracts for players that ended up being busts and players who were more deserving of playing time didn't get in because those high end rookie deals were being seen through to the end in hopes that maybe their top draftee panned out).  If they were to take to the negotiating table the argument that contracts should be fully guaranteed, then it would reduce the overall cap amount or failing that, result in players having shorter contracts.  They may get higher guaranteed portions as a result, but they would be doing at the risk of being injured and not getting re-signed to a bigger future deal.

 

Moreover, the guaranteed portions would go to the better players and drop the guaranteed amounts of the backups and depth players, possibly even affect how much is paid out to rookies as well.  In a current NFLPA culture of crying about owners getting too much money at the expense of the health and safety of the players, all guaranteed contracts would accomplish is the hypocritical notion that the best players get the most money at the expense of the younger and less experienced players.  But okay, the NFL Owners are the greedy ones...

[crazycolt1]

 If you're literally going to put your life on the line to play this sport, your money should be guaranteed. 

Life on the line? There are players who lose their life playing football but it is normally an unknown medical reason. These players know the risk and choose to play anyway. A little over kill?

[crazycolt1]

The players complaint really falls on deaf ears and doesn't really acknowledge the economics of it all.  There's only so much money to go around in the NFL and the players already get about half of what the NFL makes anyway.  Players already negotiate for guaranteed amounts, with performance enhancers and the like.  This affords them longer deals which is a benefit to the players - security if they perform (EDIT: Which by the way, this very argument is the same argument that resulted the NFL and NFLPA agreeing to lower the rookie wage scale - teams suffering huge paying contracts for players that ended up being busts and players who were more deserving of playing time didn't get in because those high end rookie deals were being seen through to the end in hopes that maybe their top draftee panned out).  If they were to take to the negotiating table the argument that contracts should be fully guaranteed, then it would reduce the overall cap amount or failing that, result in players having shorter contracts.  They may get higher guaranteed portions as a result, but they would be doing at the risk of being injured and not getting re-signed to a bigger future deal.

 

Moreover, the guaranteed portions would go to the better players and drop the guaranteed amounts of the backups and depth players, possibly even affect how much is paid out to rookies as well.  In a current NFLPA culture of crying about owners getting too much money at the expense of the health and safety of the players, all guaranteed contracts would accomplish is the hypocritical notion that the best players get the most money at the expense of the younger and less experienced players.  But okay, the NFL Owners are the greedy ones...

Is there any form of business where the owners are not greedy? If the owners wasn't making a lot of money then who would own a team? Yes they make a lot of money but their over head is higher than any other major sport. The players are not responsible for paying travel, medical, uniforms and any other thing it takes to run a NFL team. In most private businesses the employee has to pay for a lot more than any football player does. The perks add up to a lot of money.

[jvan1973]

IMO, the ones complaining should be happy with the ridiculous amount that they do get paid to play a game for a living. If you're not happy with what you get, become a better player so you get more money, or go play basketball?

And yes I know the potential for injuries and the reduced quality of life after retirement is there, know your limitations and get out while you're still healthy, or again, pick another profession.

Theres lots of people out there who risk their lives on a daily basis working dangerous jobs for a small fraction of what sports athletes get paid, and many of them have to deal with physical and health related(cancer,mental) issues after retirement.

Rant off.

You've never going to have a lot of fully guaranteed contracts in football because of the injury factor.

Look at Denver's Ryan Clady...out for his second full season at full pay.

Our Bob Sanders got paid for full (or nearly full) seasons he did not play.

Owners are never going to give in on that.

When you pay LeBron 20 mil, you can be fairly sure he'll play most of the games

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/65719/20150702/nfl-players-complain-guaranteed-money-nba-free-agents-contracts.htm

Yeah, I'm sure the bulls thought the same thing about Rose.

[OffensivelyPC]

Is there any form of business where the owners are not greedy? If the owners wasn't making a lot of money then who would own a team? Yes they make a lot of money but their over head is higher than any other major sport. The players are not responsible for paying travel, medical, uniforms and any other thing it takes to run a NFL team. In most private businesses the employee has to pay for a lot more than any football player does. The perks add up to a lot of money.

I'm not really sure what your argument or point is.  In the first half of your post you speak to the owners not being interested in bad business ventures, in the second half, how players get a lot of perks that employees in other businesses wouldn't get.  Is the point that everyone is greedy? 

[crazycolt1]

I'm not really sure what your argument or point is.  In the first half of your post you speak to the owners not being interested in bad business ventures, in the second half, how players get a lot of perks that employees in other businesses wouldn't get.  Is the point that everyone is greedy? 

Where did I speak of the owners not caring about bad business ventures? Also when any person is around big money it does bring out greed. Some more than others but it is there just the same.