Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[crazycolt1]

Wait a second wait a second...please tell me you are joking with this.

All you guys have done since day one is ignore others claims or opinions just because you have a different one. You must not have read any of the 'What's in the water up there' comments or the 'You all must have a low i.q.' comments thrown in our direction of you honestly could post that with a straight face.

The fact is, none of us know the truth about what happened. Not you, not me, none of us. But some of you guys have been just as forceful in claiming your opinion as fact as those you are condemning. All Patriots fans have done is try and present other possibilities to explain what the Wells Report failed to conclude. You are the ones refusing to acknowledge other opinions if they don't align with yours.

I honestly can't tell if you are just screwing with us now...because if you don't think the exact same thing that you've been hating about us is going on on your side as much if not more, well then there's nothing else to be said.

And why do none of us know the truth? Because Brady refused to cooperate with a NFL investigation and opened the door.  We can all have a million reasons or explanations on why he didn't take the chance to show the NFL world he had nothing to hide but he didn't. But it was his choice and he went the way that cost Kraft 1 million dollars, his team 2 draft picks and got himself suspended 4 games pending this appeal. That's the bottom line and facts of this. We can debate, argue, pray, cuss, bow our head, say aliens did it,  refuse to listen and many more reasons to either accept or not that facts that I just listed. 35 pages of comments and it still boils down to the simple facts. It has come to the point that the truth is hidden all because Brady has made it that way. The circus side show that this has become could have all prevented had Brady cooperated.

[bababooey]

In answer to your question......this

and then taking yet another opportunity to go on about the league

We're not feeling sorry for ourselves and we're not sorry about the investigation and we don't dislike the NFL for it.

Pretty much that's it.

So can we get a ban or something so I don't have to continue reading the garbage on my own team's forum?

[ColtsBlueFL]

we already know what happened there...the Colts balls re-pressurized at halftime in the warm room before they were measured.

The only thing worse than bad science, is no science. And there's no science there.  It is pure worthless conjecture.  If that is your claim, you need to set up and run a controlled, test via scientific method, that conclusively proves that claim to be correct.

 

Your hyposthesis - it only takes 12 minutes back in the locker room for the Colts footballs to come very close back to pre-game pressures after an hour and a half in 52 degree temps.

 

The official time line is Pats balls were started to be measured at halftime was about 4 minutes after they got in to the locker room and set up the testing.  It took 5 minutes or so to do the 22 (11x2) Pats balls.  It took a couple minutes to do the 8 (4x2) Colts balls and time ran out and the balls had to be turned back to the officials on the field for play.

 

My hypothesis on the test would be there is not near sufficient time (9-12 minutes back in warm air) to to recover all of the lost air pressure from what approximately 90 minutes in cold air made.

 

(though it does go up, but explainable in a transient curve)

 

You cant demand conclusive scientific proof from one side, and accept conjecture from the other.  Unacceptable.

[dw49]

Wow.  Just that easy, right?  Ever think why it didn't happen that way?  1.  When Grigs alerted the NFL, it was via email.  There was no proof submitted, just a complaint and a follow up complaint via email from Sean Sullivan; Colts equipment mgr..  The NFL gets gets complaints all of the time.  So the NFL (Dean Blandino) told Walt Anderson to make sure that all balls were between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.  They are supposed to do that anyway.  Grigson's email was not referenced. Now when my boss comes to me and asks me to make sure to perform a function that is a natural function of my job anyway, you better believe I'm going to follow through as I feel they might check at some point or they would never have asked.  Now the NFL thinks, problem solved.  All balls will be 12.5 to 13.5 marked as such, and life is good.  At no time, ever, has a Ref been asked to record pregame pressures of the game balls, just make sure they're right, mark them approved, and put back into the bag.  At this point, only hi jinx and shenanigans can mess with the pressure of those balls.  Enter the Deflator McNally, to steal the balls all alone well before he was supposed to take the balls along with official escort to the field. Refs panicked when they couldn't find them.  Richard Farley, NFL Security, was even approaching the field with the backup balls.  (too bad those weren't used, in retrospect). Then they appeared on the sidelines, with McNally.  In the game, DQwell intercepts and immediately Sean Sullivan tests this one.  It's 10.5 (reportedly) and he calls up to Grigson.  Grigson rings up the NFL in attendance and complains.

 

The NFL is flabbergasted how this could happen, so they decide to have backup refs test all balls at halftime and see what is up.  When much lower numbers for Pats balls than Colts Balls is apparent, they investigate after the game. First, they ask McNally why he took the balls.  He says he doesn't know why he did it without an escort. McNally said he went straight to the field with them (1/18/15).  After video shows he went into a bathroom, he says he used a fixture that isn't even installed.  And more  and more...

 

So the NFL is just supposed to say, OK, that explains it all.  No harm, no foul. Lets just fine the Pats 25k and move on.  {Groan}

 

And you pass it off like 'poor little Colts fans, if the NFL would have just let it go and treated it like a minor equipment violation, , this would all be past and not even an issue. Goodell is a bad, bad man trying to pin this on Brady and the Pats and dragging the Colts and all NFL fans through the muck all along in the process.' Incredible.

 

I wonder what new rules changes and protocols.are making the NFL create for next season

  

 

 

Is it OK if I just copy and paste this to every post Morty and am football post ?

[dw49]

The only thing worse than bad science, is no science. And there's no science there.  It is pure worthless conjecture.  If that is your claim, you need to set up and run a controlled, test via scientific method, that conclusively proves that claim to be correct.

 

Your hyposthesis - it only takes 12 minutes back in the locker room for the Colts footballs to come very close back to pre-game pressures after an hour and a half in 52 degree temps.

 

The official time line is Pats balls were started to be measured at halftime was about 4 minutes after they got in to the locker room and set up the testing.  It took 5 minutes or so to do the 22 (11x2) Pats balls.  It took a couple minutes to do the 8 (4x2) Colts balls and time ran out and the balls had to be turned back to the officials on the field for play.

 

My hypothesis on the test would be there is not near sufficient time (9-12 minutes back in warm air) to to recover all of the lost air pressure from what approximately 90 minutes in cold air made.

 

(though it does go up, but explainable in a transient curve)

 

You cant demand conclusive scientific proof from one side, and accept conjecture from the other.  Unacceptable.

 

 

Hear the crickets ? It's like they kept posting that ALL the balls other then the Colt Int balls measured just a few ticks under. That was never said anywhere in the sports world other than Pat fans on this forum. They just took the word "many " and embellished to "all." I called them out on it maybe 8-9 times and they would just never address it. Same thing here . There is no proof that the Colt footballs sat in 75 degrees after the NE footballs were tested. Probably 7-8 minutes at a lower temperature.

[-JJ-]

 

I ask myself that all the time...   Yet I still  get suckered in.  

 

Maybe because the Patriots have been a huge rival and Deflate Gate happened during the AFCCG vs. the Colts.  Not to mention, that there were (and probably still are) those who wanted to blame the Colts . . . including the "sour grapes" Tom Brady.

 

Point taken, Nadine.   I'll do my best to not take the bait anymore. 

 

Bingo. But then its always been that way since 2003 ;)

 

However I must say there are more colt posts because- well there are more colts here. Go figure

 

And I can't believe the topic is still discussed (been off for a few days) Did I miss much? lol ;)

[-JJ-]

Come off it, that's not cheating... Don't tease them.

ah just a matter of time before the drones made their appearance.  Goodell better send out a memo- no filming from the sky

[crazycolt1]

Hear the crickets ? It's like they kept posting that ALL the balls other then the Colt Int balls measured just a few ticks under. That was never said anywhere in the sports world other than Pat fans on this forum. They just took the word "many " and embellished to "all." I called them out on it maybe 8-9 times and they would just never address it. Same thing here . There is no proof that the Colt footballs sat in 75 degrees after the NE footballs were tested. Probably 7-8 minutes at a lower temperature.

Some of these Patriot fans think they have law degrees and can come up with anything that comes to mind to put up a defense. It makes no difference if it's credible. They sit for hours just thinking and grasping for straws to explain why Brady took the path he did. It is never in their thought process that he has something to hide because of their fandom. Brady has been a great QB for a lot of years but the thought of him doing something shady is something they wont accept. They have a hard time understanding what the legal term preponderance of evidence means. I am no lawyer but I do know what that term means and the legality of it.

[crazycolt1]

Bingo. But then its always been that way since 2003 ;)

 

However I must say there are more colt posts because- well there are more colts here. Go figure

 

And I can't believe the topic is still discussed (been off for a few days) Did I miss much? lol ;)

The only thing you might have missed is the none stop grasping for straws with some pretty wild thoughts added in. That is something you already knew so I guess you didn't miss much.

[SteelCityColt]

ah just a matter of time before the drones made their appearance.  Goodell better send out a memo- no filming from the sky

 

Although I was being Pedantic Pete in pulling up the poster for portraying it as cheating when it was no such thing it does raise questions both in general and specific to the NFL.

 

Generally drone usage is on the increase, hence the the start of organisations like the FAA clamping down on their use as they become more prevalent and companies explore their commercial applications. The wider issue, which is still a big question in today's society, is this another layer of privacy being pealed back from our lives. 

 

The article itself is a bit of a non story IMO, I can well imagine no one thought to check whether their was any regulations regarding drone usage. I can see more and more teams starting to use them though for filming practice to get a different look at things. But it did make me wonder how hard is it to maintain secrecy at team practices held out in the open now. One line that stood out for me was that "on the whole coaches and players didn't notice the presence of the drone". It does make you wonder how easy it would be to pop a drone up from a remote location and record a team's practice. 

 

 

Sorry for going off topic.. umm.. let me get back on topic... Colts YAY! Pats BOO!

[SteelCityColt]

Wow.  Just that easy, right?  Ever think why it didn't happen that way?  1.  When Grigs alerted the NFL, it was via email.  There was no proof submitted, just a complaint and a follow up complaint via email from Sean Sullivan; Colts equipment mgr..  The NFL gets gets complaints all of the time.  So the NFL (Dean Blandino) told Walt Anderson to make sure that all balls were between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.  They are supposed to do that anyway.  Grigson's email was not referenced. Now when my boss comes to me and asks me to make sure to perform a function that is a natural function of my job anyway, you better believe I'm going to follow through as I feel they might check at some point or they would never have asked.  Now the NFL thinks, problem solved.  All balls will be 12.5 to 13.5 marked as such, and life is good.  At no time, ever, has a Ref been asked to record pregame pressures of the game balls, just make sure they're right, mark them approved, and put back into the bag.  At this point, only hi jinx and shenanigans can mess with the pressure of those balls.  Enter the Deflator McNally, to steal the balls all alone well before he was supposed to take the balls along with official escort to the field. Refs panicked when they couldn't find them.  Richard Farley, NFL Security, was even approaching the field with the backup balls.  (too bad those weren't used, in retrospect). Then they appeared on the sidelines, with McNally.  In the game, DQwell intercepts and immediately Sean Sullivan tests this one.  It's 10.5 (reportedly) and he calls up to Grigson.  Grigson rings up the NFL in attendance and complains.

 

The NFL is flabbergasted how this could happen, so they decide to have backup refs test all balls at halftime and see what is up.  When much lower numbers for Pats balls than Colts Balls is apparent, they investigate after the game. First, they ask McNally why he took the balls.  He says he doesn't know why he did it without an escort. McNally said he went straight to the field with them (1/18/15).  After video shows he went into a bathroom, he says he used a fixture that isn't even installed.  And more  and more...

 

So the NFL is just supposed to say, OK, that explains it all.  No harm, no foul. Lets just fine the Pats 25k and move on.  {Groan}

 

And you pass it off like 'poor little Colts fans, if the NFL would have just let it go and treated it like a minor equipment violation, , this would all be past and not even an issue. Goodell is a bad, bad man trying to pin this on Brady and the Pats and dragging the Colts and all NFL fans through the muck all along in the process.' Incredible.

 

I wonder what new rules changes and protocols.are making the NFL create for next season

 

This is perhaps the most accurate (on the info we've got) and fair representation of the events of Deflategate. I really don't think anyone can argue that the balls were illegally manipulated with, I applaud you again for doing you're own breakdown on the science. For all those who are are naysaying the Wells report science I implore, nay demand they look at your post and try and pick it apart. See I could respect that rather than dismissing any form of scientific opinion that doesn't agree with their view or after saying the Wells report science is bunk to then fall back to "I leave the science to the scientists". To see the same falsehoods repeated endlessly that have already been covered and debunked is annoying to say the least. The most glaring of which is the idea that the Colts balls had time to warm which I felt you dealt with well in your breakdown. 

 

As for the league handling of the whole affair, could if have been better? Probably, but as you outline above I don't think it was that terrible and it certainly wasn't a "sting". 

 

This is where I am on the whole thing. I don't think there is any doubt there was illegal manipulation of the balls by a Pats employee. The question that needed answering was to what end were other parties (Brady, Belichick) involved. At this point if the Pats had thrown the two ball boys to the wolves, Brady puts his hands up going yeah I ask them to prep my balls like any other QB in the league does and they went too far, not on my instruction, we're talking a smack on the wrists and minor fine. Instead we have the press conference circus and demands for apologies. At that point what other choice does the league have then to start an investigation. An investigation that turns up the text messages that the league felt proved beyond reasonable doubt that Brady has some involvement, enough to merit a punishment for that and for what they felt was an obstructive attitude during the investigation. 

 

To this end, and I will speak for myself as a Colts Fan here, the thing that Pats fans don't seem to get it is that I don't care about the ball deflation all that much any more. Yep you broke the rules, you got caught, I don't think it changed the outcome of the game. What gets my Peyton ( ) is the denial and deflection since. How some can say they feel like NOTHING illegal took place is beyond me, and to paint it as a persecution by the league is at best delusional at worse paranoid. 

 

I've said it before and I say it again. the actions of Patriots employees caused this, take responsibility and stop looking to blame everyone and everything else. 

 

 

*The above is a rant that is purely my own views and does not represent the views of the Moderation team or the Management. 

[Nadine]

This is perhaps the most accurate (on the info we've got) and fair representation of the events of Deflategate. I really don't think anyone can argue that the balls were illegally manipulated with, I applaud you again for doing you're own breakdown on the science. For all those who are are naysaying the Wells report science I implore, nay demand they look at your post and try and pick it apart. See I could respect that rather than dismissing any form of scientific opinion that doesn't agree with their view or after saying the Wells report science is bunk to then fall back to "I leave the science to the scientists". To see the same falsehoods repeated endlessly that have already been covered and debunked is annoying to say the least. The most glaring of which is the idea that the Colts balls had time to warm which I felt you dealt with well in your breakdown. 

 

As for the league handling of the whole affair, could if have been better? Probably, but as you outline above I don't think it was that terrible and it certainly wasn't a "sting". 

 

This is where I am on the whole thing. I don't think there is any doubt there was illegal manipulation of the balls by a Pats employee. The question that needed answering was to what end were other parties (Brady, Belichick) involved. At this point if the Pats had thrown the two ball boys to the wolves, Brady puts his hands up going yeah I ask them to prep my balls like any other QB in the league does and they went too far, not on my instruction, we're talking a smack on the wrists and minor fine. Instead we have the press conference circus and demands for apologies. At that point what other choice does the league have then to start an investigation. An investigation that turns up the text messages that the league felt proved beyond reasonable doubt that Brady has some involvement, enough to merit a punishment for that and for what they felt was an obstructive attitude during the investigation. 

 

To this end, and I will speak for myself as a Colts Fan here, the thing that Pats fans don't seem to get it is that I don't care about the ball deflation all that much any more. Yep you broke the rules, you got caught, I don't think it changed the outcome of the game. What gets my Peyton ( ) is the denial and deflection since. How some can say they feel like NOTHING illegal took place is beyond me, and to paint it as a persecution by the league is at best delusional at worse paranoid. 

 

I've said it before and I say it again. the actions of Patriots employees caused this, take responsibility and stop looking to blame everyone and everything else. 

 

 

*The above is a rant that is purely my own views and does not represent the views of the Moderation team or the Management. 

 

Agree. I'd reasonably expect fans to back their guy.  Colts fans would probably do the same.  But for me the endless hairspiltting and saying you didn't and can't prove it is over the top.

 

That sort of thing can and probably will do on forever and it's not worth the aggravation of debate.

[Bad Morty]

So we have all this reporting from refs that paints a picture of refs being more likely to over-inflate footballs at pre-game inspection than to let balls through below specs, yet you're hanging your argument on the idea that the Patriots footballs were actually under-inflated prior to the game...

 

I'm not sure you know what Occam's razor is.

whoa whoa back up there..."all these reports of the refs being more likely to over inflate balls"? Where are "all these" reports? I'm aware of 1 report, and the important piece of information to be gleaned from that report is that refs weren't donning lab coats when they checked the balls in. In other words, this process wasn't all that precise. In the one reported case we are aware of, the Pats balls were apparently inflated higher than they requested them to be. That is no way suggests that it is "more likely" that the balls will always be inflated higher. Just the fact that Anderson had 2 gauges that had a 0.4 psi spread is proof that the balls may be inflated more or less than spec.

 

Again - you all want to hang your hat on a report that claims the pats balls deflated by a fractional amount more than the ideal gas law would suggest when they can't tell you with any precision what the starting measurements were, other than to say the ref recalls them being around 12.5. To an un-biased observer that's a pretty low threshold to be accusing a guy like Tom Brady of cheating.

[Bad Morty]

The only thing worse than bad science, is no science. And there's no science there.  It is pure worthless conjecture.  If that is your claim, you need to set up and run a controlled, test via scientific method, that conclusively proves that claim to be correct.

 

Your hyposthesis - it only takes 12 minutes back in the locker room for the Colts footballs to come very close back to pre-game pressures after an hour and a half in 52 degree temps.

 

The official time line is Pats balls were started to be measured at halftime was about 4 minutes after they got in to the locker room and set up the testing.  It took 5 minutes or so to do the 22 (11x2) Pats balls.  It took a couple minutes to do the 8 (4x2) Colts balls and time ran out and the balls had to be turned back to the officials on the field for play.

 

My hypothesis on the test would be there is not near sufficient time (9-12 minutes back in warm air) to to recover lost air pressure from what approximately 90 minutes in cold air made.

 

You cant demand conclusive scientific proof from one side, and accept conjecture from the other.  Unacceptable.

From the AEI Report:

 

Fortunately, the Wells report provides sufficient data to test this. First, it specifies the range of pressures that the Ideal Gas Law suggests the balls could have read given the temperature change from indoors to outdoors. That range, according to the report, is 11.32 to 11.52 in the case of the Patriots and 11.80 to 12.00 in the case of the Colts (Wells Jr., Karp, and Reisner 2015). Again, as there is uncertainty concerning which gauge was used before the game, we explore all four possible permutations.

 

The Wells report also documents that the temperature of the surrounding environment influences the internal pressure of a football even over very short time intervals. The report notes, for instance, that the 0.7 PSI impact on a football of "vigorous rubbing" dissipates after a window of roughly 15–30 minutes. And a chart on page 31 of the Exponent section of the Wells report shows pronounced effects of air temperature on ball pressure in a span of what appears to be roughly 15 minutes (Wells Jr., Karp, and Reisner 2015, 31).

The report also notes that halftime was scheduled to last 13 minutes and that the Colts balls were measured toward the very end of that window, when they ran out of time. We can therefore infer that the Colts balls were tested after being indoors for a period of a bit less than 15 minutes. The first of the Patriots balls was measured right at the beginning of halftime, followed by the others.

[amfootball]

See, this is unbelievable. We have Colts fans sitting here trying to make the claim that Patriots fans are coming to this site just to 'spew garbage' and start threads about their team...then when they are shown that THEY are the ones who are starting all the threads about the Patriots, it's all 'Oh imagine that, colts fans starting threads on a colts forum.'

All the while you guys can't quite figure out why Patriot regulars have the audacity to post in threads about their team...as you said, 'Imagine that!'

We get it, this is a Colts forum. But holy spit do you guys want things both ways!!! You'll complain about Patriots fans posting, then you'll go ahead and start thread after thread after thread after thread about the Patriots, then you'll complain all over again about Patriots fans posting in them! It's legitimately insane how some of you can follow that circle and not get dizzy.

You know I visit a ton of football forums. This is the only place that complains this much about the actual threads, topics and posters. On the other sites people just simply stop responding. It is really that simple and solves everything. Just don't click the topic and click respond if you don't want to be part of it or are frustrated with the discussion. Also there is no other non-Pats forum that has this much Pats content anywhere. It is second only to Patriots Planet and even then Brady isn't even discussed that much there. lol.

 

Now that all being said, this site by far has the most in-depth football discussions of any site. And for that it makes is a great place.

[amfootball]

Wow.  Just that easy, right?  Ever think why it didn't happen that way?  1.  When Grigs alerted the NFL, it was via email.  There was no proof submitted, just a complaint and a follow up complaint via email from Sean Sullivan; Colts equipment mgr..  The NFL gets gets complaints all of the time.  So the NFL (Dean Blandino) told Walt Anderson to make sure that all balls were between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI.  They are supposed to do that anyway.  Grigson's email was not referenced. Now when my boss comes to me and asks me to make sure to perform a function that is a natural function of my job anyway, you better believe I'm going to follow through as I feel they might check at some point or they would never have asked.  Now the NFL thinks, problem solved.  All balls will be 12.5 to 13.5 marked as such, and life is good.  At no time, ever, has a Ref been asked to record pregame pressures of the game balls, just make sure they're right, mark them approved, and put back into the bag.  At this point, only hi jinx and shenanigans can mess with the pressure of those balls.  Enter the Deflator McNally, to steal the balls all alone well before he was supposed to take the balls along with official escort to the field. Refs panicked when they couldn't find them.  Richard Farley, NFL Security, was even approaching the field with the backup balls.  (too bad those weren't used, in retrospect). Then they appeared on the sidelines, with McNally.  In the game, DQwell intercepts and immediately Sean Sullivan tests this one.  It's 10.5 (reportedly) and he calls up to Grigson.  Grigson rings up the NFL in attendance and complains.

 

The NFL is flabbergasted how this could happen, so they decide to have backup refs test all balls at halftime and see what is up.  When much lower numbers for Pats balls than Colts Balls is apparent, they investigate after the game. First, they ask McNally why he took the balls.  He says he doesn't know why he did it without an escort. McNally said he went straight to the field with them (1/18/15).  After video shows he went into a bathroom, he says he used a fixture that isn't even installed.  And more  and more...

 

So the NFL is just supposed to say, OK, that explains it all.  No harm, no foul. Lets just fine the Pats 25k and move on.  {Groan}

 

And you pass it off like 'poor little Colts fans, if the NFL would have just let it go and treated it like a minor equipment violation, , this would all be past and not even an issue. Goodell is a bad, bad man trying to pin this on Brady and the Pats and dragging the Colts and all NFL fans through the muck all along in the process.' Incredible.

 

I wonder what new rules changes and protocols.are making the NFL create for next season

In the end, we are talking about football air pressure. Something the league has not cared about it in its history which is why Walt did not write down the psi or bother to remove the game balls from the game after he lost track of them, was not sure "according to the league" what gauge he even used, etc. As the NFL said itself, the league receives complaints pregame from teams saying their opponent is cheating ALL the time. They did not take Grigson seriously but then at halftime and post-game it becomes the crime of the century? Sorry, I don't buy any of it. This was horribly mishandled again by the league from the moment they got Grigson's email.

 

And I was not trying to insinuate in my post that Colts fans feel bad about the investigation but that the way this has dragged out is what has caused so much angst up there for the last 6 months.

[Nadine]

You know I visit a ton of football forums. This is the only place that complains this much about the actual threads, topics and posters. On the other sites people just simply stop responding. It is really that simple and solves everything. Just don't click the topic and click respond if you don't want to be part of it or are frustrated with the discussion. Also there is no other non-Pats forum that has this much Pats content anywhere. It is second only to Patriots Planet and even then Brady isn't even discussed that much there. lol.

 

Now that all being said, this site by far has the most in-depth football discussions of any site. And for that it makes is a great place.

good idea for everyone to ignore posters that annoy them.

 

In your ton of visits to other forums, good job gathering data that makes this the only forum that has issues

[amfootball]

good idea for everyone to ignore posters that annoy them.

 

In your ton of visits to other forums, good job gathering data that makes this the only forum that has issues

No the other forums have issues. Worse ones IMO. I think you and the rest of the Mods do a great job here. The stuff that is allowed on other sites, in particular the NY sites is just awful. The fact that you enforce the friendly/family aspect as strong as you do is a testament as no other site holds to it like this one. And yet another reason why this a great place.

[amfootball]

good idea for everyone to ignore posters that annoy them.

 

In your ton of visits to other forums, good job gathering data that makes this the only forum that has issues

I almost forgot too. The emoticons! The best selection of emoticons anywhere on any site. Sports or not.

 

 <------ you can't find MJ anywhere.

[ColtsBlueFL]

From the AEI Report:

 

The first of the Patriots balls was measured right at the beginning of halftime, followed by the others.

 

That statement is totally false. Wells report states it took at least 2-4 minutes to set up the test.  Here's another thing, how long did it take to transport them to the locker room?  That also eats into the 13 minute halftime period, but not allow the balls to warm up. So add that to the 2-4 minuets before testing began.  That leaves 8 minutes to test all of the balls.  it took approx 5 or so to do Pats balls.  That means at worst, the very last Colts ball measured had 7 -8 minutes extra warmup time compared to the 1st Pats ball.  Best case is less than a minute difference between last Pats ball measured and the first Colts Ball measured. To prove your claim, you need to run a controlled test using these parameters, not ruubing a ball is gone in 15-30 minutes rubbish.  You demand a strict and formal test, now so do I or your claim is rubbish.

[Gramz]

You know I visit a ton of football forums. This is the only place that complains this much about the actual threads, topics and posters. On the other sites people just simply stop responding. It is really that simple and solves everything. Just don't click the topic and click respond if you don't want to be part of it or are frustrated with the discussion. Also there is no other non-Pats forum that has this much Pats content anywhere. It is second only to Patriots Planet and even then Brady isn't even discussed that much there. lol.

 

Now that all being said, this site by far has the most in-depth football discussions of any site. And for that it makes is a great place.

Wow, where do you find the time..???  

 

and to the red bolded,  what a great idea.

[amfootball]

Wow, where do you find the time..???  

 

and to the red bolded,  what a great idea.

Mobile devices are your friend.    From my time working in PR, I read fast and type even faster. When I have spare time/down time, I read football news and sites. I also devour books. I am thinking of maybe staring a book club thread on the misc. thread.

[Nadine]

Mobile devices are your friend.    From my time working in PR, I read fast and type even faster. When I have spare time/down time, I read football news and sites. I also devour books. I am thinking of maybe staring a book club thread on the misc. thread.

I might be interested depending on what's being read.  Just read the Midwife and loved it

moved on to some young adult sci fi, which I also love

I don't read sports, I get enough of that in real life

[amfootball]

I might be interested depending on what's being read.  Just read the Midwife and loved it

moved on to some young adult sci fi, which I also love

I don't read sports, I get enough of that in real life

Good to know. I may start it up. I pre-ordered "Go Set a Watchman" which is Lee Harper's prequel to "To Kill a Mockingbird" that is going to get released in mid-July. Mockingbird was one of my all time favorite books. I just re-read it as last time I read it was when I was 16. lol. But normally I read just about everything. I recently read "Wild" which they just did a movie on with Reese Witherspoon. Have not seen the movie but the book was so well written, lots of metaphors which I liked and a topic that I never before would have been interested in - hiking. I love when authors can get you to explore something new because they present in a compelling way.  I don't read sports either.

 

Anyways, will stop derailing here and go to Misc this week and get it going ...

[Gramz]

I might be interested depending on what's being read.  Just read the Midwife and loved it

moved on to some young adult sci fi, which I also love

I don't read sports, I get enough of that in real life

I read every day.  The kids bought me a kindle several years ago and I always have it loaded with reading material.

 

Right now I am reading The Longest Ride, and  I am also interested in recommendations for good reading from others.

[lollygagger8]

You know I visit a ton of football forums. This is the only place that complains this much about the actual threads, topics and posters. On the other sites people just simply stop responding. It is really that simple and solves everything. Just don't click the topic and click respond if you don't want to be part of it or are frustrated with the discussion. Also there is no other non-Pats forum that has this much Pats content anywhere. It is second only to Patriots Planet and even then Brady isn't even discussed that much there. lol.

 

Now that all being said, this site by far has the most in-depth football discussions of any site. And for that it makes is a great place.

 

Come on. You are as guilty as anyone of this. 

 

 

As much time as you spend on our forum, I really don't see how you have time for anything else... let alone other forums. 

[amfootball]

Come on. You are as guilty as anyone of this. 

 

 

As much time as you spend on our forum, I really don't see how you have time for anything else... let alone other forums. 

I am not complaining though about the topic or the posters responding or the arguments being presented.

[Nadine]

I read every day.  The kids bought me a kindle several years ago and I always have it loaded with reading material.

 

Right now I am reading The Longest Ride, and  I am also interested in recommendations for good reading from others.

maybe a what are you reading now thread?

[krunk]

In the end it wouldn't surprise me if Brady gets exhonerated.  I think there was a reason Kraft didn't put up much of a fight regarding the penalties that the team received(losing draft picks, money). 

[SteelCityColt]

Mobile devices are your friend.    From my time working in PR, I read fast and type even faster. When I have spare time/down time, I read football news and sites. I also devour books. I am thinking of maybe staring a book club thread on the misc. thread.

 

maybe a what are you reading now thread?

 

Taking bets on the first book...  

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Moving-Chains-Brady-Pursuit-Everything/dp/0374214441

[Nadine]

Taking bets on the first book...

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Moving-Chains-Brady-Pursuit-Everything/dp/0374214441

especially not that

[Bad Morty]

That statement is totally false. Wells report states it took at least 2-4 minutes to set up the test.  Here's another thing, how long did it take to transport them to the locker room?  That also eats into the 13 minute halftime period, but not allow the balls to warm up. So add that to the 2-4 minuets before testing began.  That leaves 8 minutes to test all of the balls.  it took approx 5 or so to do Pats balls.  That means at worst, the very last Colts ball measured had 7 -8 minutes extra warmup time compared to the 1st Pats ball.  Best case is less than a minute difference between last Pats ball measured and the first Colts Ball measured. To prove your claim, you need to run a controlled test using these parameters, not ruubing a ball is gone in 15-30 minutes rubbish.  You demand a strict and formal test, now so do I or your claim is rubbish.

They knew in advance that they'd be testing the balls, remember? Jackson picked off the ball, notified his people, etc. So all the set-up was done prior to the half...they were ready to go as soon as the half ended. That's how sting operations usually operate.

[jvan1973]

They knew in advance that they'd be testing the balls, remember? Jackson picked off the ball, notified his people, etc. So all the set-up was done prior to the half...they were ready to go as soon as the half ended. That's how sting operations usually operate.

If it were a sting operation they would have checked the ball the patriots brought to the field before they started their first series. use you brain

[Bad Morty]

So you completely just made that up without any idea of what you were talking about? That is how you debate a subject? It becomes increasingly difficult to take you seriously when you try to make wild speculation part of your argument.

hey - it's not just my opinion...

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/29/the-nfls-scientific-consultant-has-bigger-problems-than-the-wells-report/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

 

Initially, Columbia University was mentioned as a potential consultant for Wells, but that never materialized — possibly because Columbia wouldn’t reach the conclusion Wells wanted Columbia to reach.

[Bad Morty]

If it were a sting operation they would have checked the ball the patriots brought to the field before they started their first series. use you brain

not if they thought they were deflating balls on the sideline during the game

[dynasty13]

That statement is totally false. Wells report states it took at least 2-4 minutes to set up the test.  Here's another thing, how long did it take to transport them to the locker room?  That also eats into the 13 minute halftime period, but not allow the balls to warm up. So add that to the 2-4 minuets before testing began.  That leaves 8 minutes to test all of the balls.  it took approx 5 or so to do Pats balls.  That means at worst, the very last Colts ball measured had 7 -8 minutes extra warmup time compared to the 1st Pats ball.  Best case is less than a minute difference between last Pats ball measured and the first Colts Ball measured. To prove your claim, you need to run a controlled test using these parameters, not ruubing a ball is gone in 15-30 minutes rubbish.  You demand a strict and formal test, now so do I or your claim is rubbish.

 

I feel like I now need to through out a disclaimer before posting, so here it is: DO NOT READ IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR A DIFFERENT OPINION THAT MAY PRESENT A POSSIBILITY OF WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED. FURTHERMORE, IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO READ, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT AS IF YOU HAVE.

 

Here's the thing that causes me to question how much time passed between the measuring of the Patriots and Colts balls, otherwise I'd probably agree with you. Two officials measured the balls at halftime...Prioleau used the logo gauge for the Patriots balls, Blakeman used the non-logo gauge. Why then, for the Colts balls, did Blakeman then have the logo gauge and Prioleau the non-logo gauge? You'd think that if they measured the Colts balls right after the Patriots balls, they'd still be holding the gauges they started with...but because they switched, that leads me to believe that some time passed between and in their rush at the end of halftime to measure the Colts balls, they just grabbed a gauge without thinking and only got through 4.

 

Again, I am only presenting a POSSIBILITY of what could have happened: It is perfectly reasonable to assume that they came in at halftime with the intention of measuring the Patriots balls, and upon doing so and discovering that the Patriots balls were under inflated, everyone got in a tizzy...especially Kensil, who reportedly found time to then tell the Patriots equipment manager that 'We weighed the balls, you're in big --ing trouble". At the time remember, there was no awareness of the Ideal Gas law or any thought to natural causes contributing, so there was probably no immediate thought of needing to measure the Colts balls for comparison. Some time passed while all this was all going on and trying to figure out what to do, but then at the end of halftime they rushed to measure the Colts balls, but only managed to get through a quarter of them. 

 

I just find it odd that the two officials would have somehow switched which gauges they each used if they really did measure the Colts footballs immediately after the Patriots ones. It's just little details like that that stick out to Patriots fans when trying to dissect the Wells Report...and as much as others may want to discount them, the fact that there are so many 'little things' is what raised concern.

[Bad Morty]

I feel like I now need to through out a disclaimer before posting, so here it is: DO NOT READ IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR A DIFFERENT OPINION THAT MAY PRESENT A POSSIBILITY OF WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED. FURTHERMORE, IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO READ, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT AS IF YOU HAVE.

 

Here's the thing that causes me to question how much time passed between the measuring of the Patriots and Colts balls, otherwise I'd probably agree with you. Two officials measured the balls at halftime...Prioleau used the logo gauge for the Patriots balls, Blakeman used the non-logo gauge. Why then, for the Colts balls, did Blakeman then have the logo gauge and Prioleau the non-logo gauge? You'd think that if they measured the Colts balls right after the Patriots balls, they'd still be holding the gauges they started with...but because they switched, that leads me to believe that some time passed between and in their rush at the end of halftime to measure the Colts balls, they just grabbed a gauge without thinking and only got through 4.

 

Again, I am only presenting a POSSIBILITY of what could have happened: It is perfectly reasonable to assume that they came in at halftime with the intention of measuring the Patriots balls, and upon discovering that the Patriots balls were under inflated, everyone got in a tizzy...especially Kensil, who reportedly found time to then tell the Patriots equipment manager that 'We weighed the balls, you're in big --ing trouble". At the time remember, there was no awareness of the Ideal Gas law or any thought to natural causes contributing, so there was probably no immediate thought of needing to measure the Colts balls for comparison. Some time passed while all this was all going on and trying to figure out what to do, but then at the end of halftime they rushed to measure the Colts balls, but only managed to get through a quarter of them. 

 

I just find it odd that the two officials would have somehow switched which gauges they each used if they really did measure the Colts footballs immediately after the Patriots ones.

This only makes sense if you allow for the possibility that the balls weren't tampered with and that the halftime process was a cluster-%^&*.

[dw49]

This only makes sense if you allow for the possibility that the balls weren't tampered with and that the halftime process was a cluster-%^&*.

 

 

With all due respect , I think you am , virulent and dynasty 13 are going to be very disappointed with the outcome of this. Tom Brady , IMO will take any reduced sentence offered to him in lieu of taking this to court. He's saying court to better his bargaining position. With the burden of proof required for the NFL , Brady is going to have to do more than just say "I didn't do anything wrong." Between his refusal to show phone records and what could be a brutal cross examination of the two ex NE employees , IMO there is no way this is taken to the next level. Sad thing as to this forum anyway , this would point to his guilt or involvement and you all will still be in denial.

[Cynjin]

hey - it's not just my opinion...

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/29/the-nfls-scientific-consultant-has-bigger-problems-than-the-wells-report/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

 

Initially, Columbia University was mentioned as a potential consultant for Wells, but that never materialized — possibly because Columbia wouldn’t reach the conclusion Wells wanted Columbia to reach.

Just because there is more than one person making things up or speculating wildly does not make it any more factual.

[amfootball]

Taking bets on the first book...

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Moving-Chains-Brady-Pursuit-Everything/dp/0374214441

No, this one is much better, http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Brady-vs-NFL-Quarterback/dp/1600786367/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435674721&sr=8-1&keywords=tom+brady+vs+the+NFL

 

 

Although the author needs to do a revised edition as it only goes through 2011 ...