Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[Bad Morty]

This.

Kraft is a smart man. By accepting the punishment, without exactly saying "we plead guilty", allows him to save face with the Pats fans. IMO, he knew there was guilt, didn't see winning in court, so he took the punishment and chose to move on.

Once again, IMO, this allows the Pats fans to say "he never admitted guilt, so they must be innocent" and leaves the rest of the Country viewing this clearly as guilt. Everyone will see it as it best suits their agenda.

What Kraft did or didn't do has no bearing on the facts of their guilt or innocence. There are a number of reasons why Kraft chose not to fight the punishment, chief among them being that per the by-laws of the league he has no legal standing to fight any punishment, and attempting to do so would have resulted 100% in him losing the case anyway AND inflicting damage on the league he earns his money off of. All of that is a side show.

 

What is reality is simply this: the science does not suggest that the balls were tampered with at all. The readings of both the Colts and Pats balls are all expected results per the ideal gas law and given the conditions that existed when each team's balls were tested. That is the beginning and the end of the story. If you are convinced someone committed murder only to find out that the supposed victim is actually alive and well, then it really doesn't matter what sketchy text messages the suspect might have sent, does it?

[Cynjin]

Who the hell cares?

 

It's just football. A stupid game. If you want to really want to disprove stuff, then go through history and revisionism, or better yet topics that are whitewashed out of history books and myths. Real world stuff that actually counts. At the end of the day, the only people that are going to care about this junk is people that watch football. This isn't a life or death situation that any fans have control over. Time to move on.

 

There is other things in this world that need proper protesting and awareness raised. This is not one of them. 

 

I think you answered your own question about who cares about this in your second paragraph.  The Pats fans will probably never move on from this given their "they hate us because they ain't us" attitude.  Also, given that this is an NFL General message board I doubt anyone will start discussions regarding social or political transgressions worthy of protest.

[Cynjin]

I don't know if this was mentioned but the lead author of that "study" was born and raised in what state?  I think we can all guess where.

 

 

Also, the authors are economists not physicists, so I am not sure why they believe they have an expertise in the Ideal Gas Law.

[Narcosys]

Who knows...all I know is no balls were ever deflated. Sorry.

Oh you "know", well that should end it. Let's get Goodell to give you a call so we can all end this.

[Gramz]

What Kraft did or didn't do has no bearing on the facts of their guilt or innocence. ?

We disagree, which is normally the case between Colts and Pats fans.

I don't see him accepting such harsh penalties, without a fight. Unless........ well you know.

It is senseless for any of us to continue debating this.

[Shane Bond]

None of the pats fans here know the answer of why those 2 employees were suspended indefinitely.

 

Unless you have an answer to it, you are guilty. Just move on.

[Shane Bond]

We disagree, which is normally the case between Colts and Pats fans.

I don't see him accepting such harsh penalties, without a fight. Unless........ well you know.

It is senseless for any of us to continue debating this.

It was the same Kraft who expected NFL to apologize to the Pats before the wells report.

 

It was the same Kraft who accepted punishment from NFL after the wells report.

 

You do the math.

[HOZER]

None of the pats fans here know the answer of why those 2 employees were suspended indefinitely.

Unless you have an answer to it, you are guilty. Just move on.

I am willing to bet they were suspended but have been given a good reason($$$) by Kraft or Brady to not go to the media with the truth.

[Bad Morty]

It was the same Kraft who expected NFL to apologize to the Pats before the wells report.

 

It was the same Kraft who accepted punishment from NFL after the wells report.

 

You do the math.

I understand why you'd want to ignore the fact that science disproves the story you want to believe. That's a natural fan reaction. But unfortunately, logic usually prevails over the long term. You don't need a science degree to understand that if the Colts balls sat in a warm dressing room for 15 minutes before 4 of them were measured for comparison purposes, that completely and unequivocally explains away the supposed damning evidence that the Patriots balls deflated more than the Colts balls did. That's kind of a huge blow to the forensic "evidence" in the Wells report. Remember - even with the Wells scientific analysis he couldn't arrive at anything stronger than "more probable than not"...now with this new evidence, that tips the scales back to "more improbable"

[dw49]

I really believe there is no way the NFL lets this appeal get to court with Brady. The Wells report will be torn to shreds.

 

 

Here we go again.....  Not going to happen. Brady will get between 2 and 4 games and end of story.

 

Why... ? Because the guy took the balls into the pee place and stuck them. Brady was aware in some capacity no doubt. 

[Bad Morty]

Here we go again.....  Not going to happen. Brady will get between 2 and 4 games and end of story.

 

Why... ? Because the guy took the balls into the pee place and stuck them. Brady was aware in some capacity no doubt. 

How do you explain the fact that science doesn't prove that the balls were tampered with?

[southwest1]

What exactly does this line mean from the attached article Bad Morty provided? "... the Colts footballs were allowed to adjust to the indoors temperature prior to measurement."

 

So because Patriots fans don't care for the overall conclusions made by the Ted Wells report, the league refs on duty the night of the AFC Championship Game granted the Colts an unfair, competitive advantage with separate measurement gauges? Are we really engaging in false projection now? Accusing the other side of illegal preferential treatment just to deflect blame & sidetrack what actually happened in reality?

 

Honestly, let it go. The more fuss Foxboro supporters raise over the Wells Report's findings the more childish they look. Brady will get his suspension reduced to 2 games & their team will still have 11-12 wins this year without Revis in your secondary anymore.

 

Keith Olbermann said it best.... 

 

He's being sarcastic here, but all he's really saying is 2 things: 1. Own your role in this scandal Tommy & tell your daddy you can handle your own business like a man & 2. Fans respect athletes who when busted man up & take their necessary lumps. Considering that both Brady & Manning lobbied the league in 2006 for the permission to prepare game balls to their desired specifications, it's laughable for me to assume with a straight face that Tommy was in the dark about pigskin deflation. 

[Bad Morty]

What exactly does this line mean from the attached article Bad Morty provided? "... the Colts footballs were allowed to adjust to the indoors temperature prior to measurement."

 

 

The whole basis on which the Wells report came to the scientific conclusion that the balls had to have been artificially deflated hinged on the measurement of the Colts balls, which didn't show anywhere near the drop. I.e the logic was "The Pats balls read lower than the 12.5 they started at. Depending on which gauge was used, that reduction may be explainable by the ideal gas law (if you use the logo gauge that the ref says he used) or it may not be (if you use the other gauge). BUT, we don't think the gauge issue matters BECAUSE the Colts balls (4 of them that were measured) didn't deflate by anywhere near the same amount. Therefore, the Pats more probably than not tampered with the balls"

 

What this new report is saying is "hold on a sec...it's clear that the Colts balls that were used for comparison sat in a warm room for 15 minutes before they took the halftime measurements..now here is science that proves that those balls would have re-inflated significantly in that time frame, so you can't make the claim that the different rates of deflation is valid evidence"

[dw49]

How do you explain the fact that science doesn't prove that the balls were tampered with?

 

I'll be honest and say that I didn't read the whole Wells report . That said I was of the understanding that the conclusions of the report never relied on science to prove the balls were deflated by tampering. I'm sure they talked to scientist that understood as much as the economists that released this report. 

[Bad Morty]

I'll be honest and say that I didn't read the whole Wells report . That said I was of the understanding that the conclusions of the report never relied on science to prove the balls were deflated by tampering. I'm sure they talked to scientist that understood as much as the economists that released this report. 

so without knowing whether or not the balls actually measured at a level that wouldn't be considered 'normal' given the conditions, you made a decision because in a text from May, 2014, some low level employee referred to himself as "the deflator"? It doesn't seem like you are all that interested in the actual truth then.

[Cynjin]

 It doesn't seem like you are all that interested in the actual truth then.

 

 

That is hilarious coming from you, thanks for the laugh.

[horseshoeblue22]

I'd buy this theory:

1) Brady asked for 12.5 balls as usual

2) Refs inflated the balls higher than that...we know from the Wells report that they aren't too rigid about this, so those balls might have been closer to 13 when they left the refs room

3) McNally takes them to the bathroom. "takes the top off"...a violation no doubt, and one that should be penalized

4) But because the refs over-inflated the balls, the action McNally took resulted in balls pretty much at the 12.5 level Brady requested to begin with by the time he leaves the bathroom...i.e. McNally's job was to get the balls to the 12.5 he wanted...legal balls, but tampered with.

5) Then mother nature takes it's course during the first half deflating the balls further

That left the league with the awkward situation of KNOWING that the Pats were doing this but NOT knowing that the refs weren't inflating the balls properly to begin with OR that the cold would explain deflation more than they thought....

Tampering with the footballs after ref's inspection is a violation. Doesn't matter if hes setting it at 10 PSI, 12.5, 13.5 or 42 PSI. A violation is a violation.

Patriots have said that McNally's job has nothing to do with gameday prep of footballs or any "deflating", so by this theory, they are lying. A lie is a lie.

So you could believe the Pats committed a violation and then lied about it, but its totally unreasonable to believe they committed said violation to gain an illegal competitive advantage?

Another thing, Jastremski's text is the only evidence to suggest the referees overinflated the footballs in the Jets game or in any other game. There is little to no proof the balls were inflated to 16 PSI as reported, or even that the referees were responsible for it if they were overinflated. With all the talk of watermelons and rugby balls, is it totally unreasonable to believe McNally may have actually illegally overinflated the footballs for that game, in an effort to spite Brady for putting him up to this? Certainly, he wouldn't have admitted it to his buddy/co-worker when he heard Tom was giving them **** for it.

I didn't really want to get involved in this, but I don't understand your logic when you are willing to "buy" a theory that directly contradicts the evidence in the Wells report, and even the "evidence" in the context rebuttal published by NE.

Exponent's science report was commissioned by Wells and the NFL office. AEI's science report was commissioned by the NFLPA, who has interest in seeing these penalties overturned. Neither group are completely "impartial" and both were paid to find a conclusion that leads to a predetermined outcome that contradict the other.

To be clear, I believe the Patriots did exactly what they are accused of, and they are lying about it. I believe the league has an interest in protecting the Pats franchise and the league reputation while punishing them for this. They are also lying, stalling and spinning the truth until they find an outcome they are happy with from a PR prespective. I don't think the Colts have been completely honest as far as their involvement, and I think underinflated footballs have been finding their way onto the field for years, if not decades, without any concern from the league or the referees. This whole thing has gotten so stupid, and its impossible to conclude what actually happened here when every party involved is lying through their teeth.

I give the NFL credit though, they have done a masterful job of creatibg the "shadow of doubt" and keeping this story in the news cycle. The Pats and Brady should just take the sanctions handed down, admit what happened and we'll all move on. Not like a 4 game suspension is backbreaking for this team over the long run.

[21isSuperman]

Who the hell cares?

 

It's just football. A stupid game. If you want to really want to disprove stuff, then go through history and revisionism, or better yet topics that are whitewashed out of history books and myths. Real world stuff that actually counts. At the end of the day, the only people that are going to care about this junk is people that watch football. This isn't a life or death situation that any fans have control over. Time to move on.

 

There is other things in this world that need proper protesting and awareness raised. This is not one of them. 

Why do you hate football so much?  You claim to be a football fan, but then you continually bash the game for being "stupid" or promoting unnecessary aggression.  It's completely fine to have those opinions, but then how can you say you're a fan of the game or of a team when you hate the game so much?

 

Also, this is a football forum.  Things like politics aren't discussed on here because that's not the objective of these forums.  You're logging onto a football forum and complaining about how people are discussing football.  Sure, there are more pressing issues in the world, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss football, nor does it mean we can discuss those things on a football forum, nor does it mean people on these forums don't discuss and take part in those issues.

 

It really is not worth the time as there is so much to discuss. I have found getting in these discussions just takes way too much time if the report has not been read. I don't want to write out everything that is flawed as that would take all day. I just wanted you to read it for yourself, separate from the media and editorialized headlines and all that has been posted up here and give me your honest opinion. If you do not have the time, I am completely understand.

I'm not going to read an entire 243 page report .  But if you can point out even just a couple of sections that you think are flawed, I'd be more than happy to read those sections and give a response

[21isSuperman]

From the new report:

 

The pressure of a football depends on the ambient temperature of the atmosphere in which it is located. Footballs inflated to 12.5 PSI at room temperature will drop in pressure when taken into the cold. The pressure in the football will increase when it is brought back into a warm room. Estimating how much the pressure in the ball will decline when the external temperature changes involves straightforward physics.

An investigation that identifies wrongdoing on the part of the Patriots should document three things: that the pressure in the Patriots balls declined more than the pressure in the Colts balls, that the pressure in the Patriots balls was significantly below the level predicted by basic physics, and that the pressure in the Colts balls was not statistically above or below the level predicted by basic physics. The confluence of these three results would represent a smoking gun. However, the statistically different reduction in pressure could result either because the Patriots balls declined more than predicted or because the Colts balls declined less than predicted. The Wells report provides no statistical analysis on this key point.

 

 

The problem here is that ideally, measurements would have been taken simultaneously for all balls, outdoors, at the end of the half, and with the same gauge that was used before the game. Instead, the balls were taken inside and measured

there, but not measured simultaneously. The pressure was checked twice for the Patriots balls (once with each gauge), after which the Patriots balls were reinflated and the Colts ball pressure was measured. Only 4 of the Colts balls (instead of all 12) were measured because halftime ended and the officials ran out of time. The fact that the officials ran out of time is highly material: it implies that the Colts balls were inside a warm room for almost the entire halftime before they were measured and thus had a chance to warm up.

 

 

What Kraft did or didn't do has no bearing on the facts of their guilt or innocence. There are a number of reasons why Kraft chose not to fight the punishment, chief among them being that per the by-laws of the league he has no legal standing to fight any punishment, and attempting to do so would have resulted 100% in him losing the case anyway AND inflicting damage on the league he earns his money off of. All of that is a side show.

 

What is reality is simply this: the science does not suggest that the balls were tampered with at all. The readings of both the Colts and Pats balls are all expected results per the ideal gas law and given the conditions that existed when each team's balls were tested. That is the beginning and the end of the story. If you are convinced someone committed murder only to find out that the supposed victim is actually alive and well, then it really doesn't matter what sketchy text messages the suspect might have sent, does it?

 

 

I understand why you'd want to ignore the fact that science disproves the story you want to believe. That's a natural fan reaction. But unfortunately, logic usually prevails over the long term. You don't need a science degree to understand that if the Colts balls sat in a warm dressing room for 15 minutes before 4 of them were measured for comparison purposes, that completely and unequivocally explains away the supposed damning evidence that the Patriots balls deflated more than the Colts balls did. That's kind of a huge blow to the forensic "evidence" in the Wells report. Remember - even with the Wells scientific analysis he couldn't arrive at anything stronger than "more probable than not"...now with this new evidence, that tips the scales back to "more improbable"

 

I think it's funny how you keep bashing the science, but don't actually read the science in the Wells report.  Read page 200 of the document:

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

 

For example, using the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psig, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71°F and a final temperature of 48°F prior to the balls being taken back into the Officials Locker Room), these equations predict that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psig at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the ideal Gas Law. Once the game day measurements are converted into their corresponding Master Gauge pressures (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the footballs, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the ideal Gas Law

[Bad Morty]

That is hilarious coming from you, thanks for the laugh.

If there was irrefutable scientific evidence that the Patriots tampered with footballs, I'd be the first to admit that they tampered with footballs.

 

But the science does not support the conclusion that footballs were tampered with. There's no getting around this anymore.

[Bad Morty]

I think it's funny how you keep bashing the science, but don't actually read the science in the Wells report.  Read page 200 of the document:

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

 

For example, using the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psig, a starting temperature of between 67 and 71°F and a final temperature of 48°F prior to the balls being taken back into the Officials Locker Room), these equations predict that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psig at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the ideal Gas Law. Once the game day measurements are converted into their corresponding Master Gauge pressures (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the footballs, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the ideal Gas Law

from the AEI report:

 

At halftime, 11 of the Patriots balls and only 4 of Colts balls were measured with both gauges. Unfortunately, the Logo gauge tends to give higher readings than the Non-Logo gauge (by about 0.4 PSI), and this has created some controversy. Anderson remembers that he used the Logo gauge before the game, but the Wells report, in a direct contradiction of that recollection, concludes that he used the Non-Logo gauge before the game. The Patriots have argued that this decision was crucial to the analysis and that the evidence of excessive deflation disappears if one assumes the Logo gauge was used. Wells, in a news conference after the report was released, has stated that his report’s results continue to hold and that "it doesn’t matter because regardless of which gauges were used the scientific consultants addressed all of the permutations in their analysis" (Boston Globe 2015).2

This statement is factually incorrect. The Wells report neither provides evidence for every possible permutation of gauge use nor proves that the report’s conclusions are independent of gauge use. If, as the Wells report asserts, Anderson’s recollection is unreliable, then it seems to logically follow that one way to perform a thorough analysis would be to address all four possible permutations of gauge use.

 

Two gauges and two teams implies four possible

permutations of pregame gauge use: (1) the Patriots balls were measured with the Logo gauge whereas the Colts balls were measured with the

Non-Logo gauge, (2) the Patriots balls were measured with the Non-Logo gauge whereas the Colts balls were measured with the Logo gauge, (3) both teams’ balls were measured with the Logo gauge, or (4) both teams’ balls were measured with the Non-Logo gauge. We analyze each possibility separately using a standard statistical model.

 

 

[dw49]

so without knowing whether or not the balls actually measured at a level that wouldn't be considered 'normal' given the conditions, you made a decision because in a text from May, 2014, some low level employee referred to himself as "the deflator"? It doesn't seem like you are all that interested in the actual truth then.

 

I don't view the report by people who are no more scientific knowledge than me as earth shattering. I also don't think the only damning evidence (all circumstantial) is the employee referring to himself as the deflator.

[Bad Morty]

Exponent's science report was commissioned by Wells and the NFL office. AEI's science report was commissioned by the NFLPA, who has interest in seeing these penalties overturned.

 

This is not true. The New York Times commissioned the AEI report, not the NFLPA. It's an independent report.

[Bad Morty]

I don't view the report by people who are no more scientific knowledge than me as earth shattering. I also don't think the only damning evidence (all circumstantial) is the employee referring to himself as the deflator.

lol..do you really think that this AEI report was done by "economists who don't know anything about science"? Read up on AEI at some point...this isn't a hack outfit...they are extremely credible and not just a bunch of "economists".

[Bad Morty]

Maybe this will help http://www.aei.org/about/

 

AEI’s operations are financed by donations from corporations, foundations and individuals and by investment earnings from an internal endowment. The Institute does not perform contract research and does not accept government grants. Its research agenda is determined by its president in consultation with its trustees, scholars and fellows, and academic advisers; the substance and conclusions of its research and publications are determined by the individuals conducting the research. AEI operates at the intersection of scholarship and politics, aiming to elevate political debate and improve the substance of government policy. Many of the subjects of AEI research and publications are controversial, and many are the focus of political contention and intense interest-group advocacy. Many AEI scholars and fellows are or have been directly engaged in practical politics and policymaking as government officials, advisers or members of official commissions. For these reasons, AEI maintains policies and procedures for assuring the integrity and reputation of its work. The most important of these are set forth below.

 

The American Enterprise Institute is a community of scholars and supporters committed to expanding liberty, increasing individual opportunity and strengthening free enterprise. AEI pursues these unchanging ideals through independent thinking, open debate, reasoned argument, facts and the highest standards of research and exposition. Without regard for politics or prevailing fashion, we dedicate our work to a more prosperous, safer and more democratic nation and world.

AEI is a private, nonpartisan, not-for-profit institution dedicated to research and education on issues of government, politics, economics and social welfare. AEI’s purpose is to serve leaders and the public through research and education on the most important issues of the day. AEI research is conducted through seven primary research divisions: Economics, Foreign and Defense Policy, Politics and Public Opinion, Education, Health, Energy and the Environment and Society and Culture.

More than 200 people work at AEI’s headquarters in Washington, D.C. In addition, adjunct scholars and fellows, mainly at research universities around the United States, conduct research for AEI and participate in its conferences. In all our endeavors, AEI trustees, scholars and fellows, and officers and staff are responsible for maintaining the highest standards of integrity, intellectual rigor and excellence—and for sustaining AEI’s founding commitment to open inquiry, lucid exposition, vigorous debate and continuous improvement in the institutions of American liberty.

[ColtRider]

I'm thinking our trolling Pats fans protest too much. Way too much. Which tells me all I need to know.

Biding our time, bhc. Biding our time.

[jvan1973]

They got zero on Brady other than him complaining about the Jets ball that were overinflated to an illegal 16 psi that Wells never followed up on or actually did but did not bother to include his interview with the game day ref.

They have his non cooperation. That's all they need

[ponyboy]

Why are 2 employees suddenly suspended?. Why does one of them calls himself 'Deflator'?.

 

 

Source close to McNally say he was legendary for his explosive release of PSI from his colon -- and thus earned the nickname "the Deflator".

 

There... my lie is much better than the lie the high priced lawyers came up with

[ColtsBlueFL]

There is this, right from the article-

 

"They're also far from angels, with a scrutinized history of bending their findings to support the views held by their donors."

 

Ha ha!  admission of guilt of spinning reports from the get go!

 

Nothing new here, they still try to insist the logo pressure gauge was used and then the gas law looks much better.  I hope this end up in court and mud is spread everywhere...  not.  But this league is full of cheaters and they should get the riot act every time they're caught, because the rewards are great when they are not.

[horseshoeblue22]

This is not true. The New York Times commissioned the AEI report, not the NFLPA. It's an independent report.

I read that it was commissioned by NFLPA, can you share a link that says NYT paid for this? Even so, that's assuming the New York Times and anyone working for AEI is completely impartial and without bias.

My point was that your "theory" doesn't add up.

For what its worth, here is my theory.

1) Someone in the Colts org. (Grigson, Pagano, and/or Irsay) was offended by the ineligible WR formations and Brady's "Learn the rulebook." comment. They knew the Pats (and several other teams) have been deflating footballs over the years. It was a fairly common practice, something that was easy for any equipment guy to do, and always went undetected. Colts devised a scheme to "catch em", instructing their D players "If you get your hands on the ball, make sure it gets back to our equipment staff." The whole team, coaches, and management knew the plan.

2) Grihson called the NFL office with his concerns. They did nothing, as expected, but this "planted the seed", so to speak.

3) Game starts, LB Jackson picks off Brady and sure enough, the ball is underinflated. Grigson calls NFL office, they assure him they are going to look into it at halftime. During half, Grigson tells his guys not to worry about the score, they caught them in the act. The league is going to step in, the game is over.

4) The league inexplicitly re-inflate the Patriots footballs despite obvious tampering, because they don't want something like this ruining the Conference Championship and costing them millions in revenue. The 3rd quarter starts, and the Colts are left miffed and confused by the fact the league did nothing.

5) 45-7, Colts are going home, and Grigson is furious. He leaks the story to Kravitz, forcing the NFL to act once the story goes public. At the same time, as this is all blowing up, the Colts are trying desperately to create the impression that they had nothing to do with this, they didn't feel cheated, and it was a league matter...to avoid being looked at like narcs or sore losers. The league scrambles to avoid the impression that this particular violation happens all the time, and that they were tipped that it was going to happen in this game.

6) The league confirms there is an "investigation", but other than that...they do nothing hoping the story dies. As it gets bigger and bigger, and the fans want the Superbowl changed or postponed, the weekend after the AFCCG they bring in Wells to "start from the beginning". This gives the Pats cover for the SB and protects the income generated by the biggest game of the year.

7) The general POV of fans was that they would wait for the Wells report for a decisive ruling. Wells took about three months to produce this, and came to an inconclusive conclusion...the conclusion that was "best for business" for the NFL. A conclusion that satisfied 31 fan bases, and at the same time rallied the support and vigor of the NE fan base.

8) Meanwhile, the league is pretending they care about "integrity", the Pats are pretending a violation never occurred, and the Colts are trying to proclaim total innocence and distance themselves from a mess that they created. Everyone is spinning the truth and the NFL PR machine is working its magic to satisfy everyone here, and create these heated debates that mean one thing...ratings.

[Cynjin]

Maybe this will help http://www.aei.org/about/

 

 

 

 

AEI is a private, nonpartisan, not-for-profit institution dedicated to research and education on issues of government, politics, economics and social welfare. AEI’s purpose is to serve leaders and the public through research and education on the most important issues of the day. AEI research is conducted through seven primary research divisions: Economics, Foreign and Defense Policy, Politics and Public Opinion, Education, Health, Energy and the Environment and Society and Culture.

 

 

How does Deflategate fit into there mission?  Also, there seems to be a statement missing how their economics professors are qualified as experts in the Ideal Gas Law.  If the AEI considers Deflategate to be a "most important issues of the day", then they really need to re-read their mission statement.

[Coffeedrinker]

Who knows...all I know is no balls were ever deflated. Sorry.

The ideal gas law is great and I use it a lot in my work.  But it's not real usable in this situation for two reasons.  One, the temperature is really an unknown, two the temperature was taken indoors both times, so the game time temperature is of little significance.

 

But let's look at the math; PiVi/Ti = PfVf/Tf (Pi=pressure before game, Vi=Volume before game and Ti=temp before game, the "f" is for the final in this case at halftime).  Now the volume of air inside a football is for all intents and purposes a constant so they cancel each other out and you are left with Pi/Ti = Pf/Tf.  

 

Now I know some of you have plugged in different items and noticed that a 10 degree temperature change has a huge effect on the pressure, so Brady is correct and the Ideal gas law proves he did not tamper with balls.  But remember, the ideal gas law is a physics, so temperature is in kelvin.  Let's assume the temp inside for Ti is 70 degrees F. 70 degrees F is equal to 294.261 degrees Kelvin.  Doing the math (12.5psi/294.261Kelvin=11.5psi/x Kelvin, solve for x... x=11.5psi(294.261Kelvin)/12.5psi), the temperature would have to drop 42 degrees F for the pressure in the ball to drop 1 psi.

 

Again since the temperature was taken indoors both time the temp change would have been no where near 42 degrees F.

[21isSuperman]

from the AEI report:

 

At halftime, 11 of the Patriots balls and only 4 of Colts balls were measured with both gauges. Unfortunately, the Logo gauge tends to give higher readings than the Non-Logo gauge (by about 0.4 PSI), and this has created some controversy. Anderson remembers that he used the Logo gauge before the game, but the Wells report, in a direct contradiction of that recollection, concludes that he used the Non-Logo gauge before the game. The Patriots have argued that this decision was crucial to the analysis and that the evidence of excessive deflation disappears if one assumes the Logo gauge was used. Wells, in a news conference after the report was released, has stated that his report’s results continue to hold and that "it doesn’t matter because regardless of which gauges were used the scientific consultants addressed all of the permutations in their analysis" (Boston Globe 2015).2

This statement is factually incorrect. The Wells report neither provides evidence for every possible permutation of gauge use nor proves that the report’s conclusions are independent of gauge use. If, as the Wells report asserts, Anderson’s recollection is unreliable, then it seems to logically follow that one way to perform a thorough analysis would be to address all four possible permutations of gauge use.

 

Two gauges and two teams implies four possible

permutations of pregame gauge use: (1) the Patriots balls were measured with the Logo gauge whereas the Colts balls were measured with the

Non-Logo gauge, (2) the Patriots balls were measured with the Non-Logo gauge whereas the Colts balls were measured with the Logo gauge, (3) both teams’ balls were measured with the Logo gauge, or (4) both teams’ balls were measured with the Non-Logo gauge. We analyze each possibility separately using a standard statistical model.

If I recall correctly, the Wells report concluded that the non-logo gauge was used because it would not have been possible to get the readings the referees did, under those conditions, using the logo gauge.  So which is more likely?  Someone misremembering, or the science being wrong?

[Bad Morty]

How does Deflategate fit into there mission?  Also, there seems to be a statement missing how their economics professors are qualified as experts in the Ideal Gas Law.  If the AEI considers Deflategate to be a "most important issues of the day", then they really need to re-read their mission statement.

Under the "society and culture" part of their mission statement I would presume. They also did their own research on Bounty Gate. This organization is an independent think tank. They don't do contract work - they are a non-profit. So nobody goes to them and says "hey we'll pay you $x to study this". Secondly, they are NOT a "group of economists". They are a group of academics from all disciplines, representing I believe it said over 200 universities across the country.

 

These guys are legit, and they are heavyweights. This isn't a group of "Patriots fans"...and they say the Wells report's science was poorly done and not credible. That's reality. You can shoot the messenger all you like. Obviously, I love this report...but it can't be dismissed as a "bought and paid for" effort.

[Bad Morty]

If I recall correctly, the Wells report concluded that the non-logo gauge was used because it would not have been possible to get the readings the referees did, under those conditions, using the logo gauge.  So which is more likely?  Someone misremembering, or the science being wrong?

no - their dismissal of the logo gauge depended on the claim that the difference in the pressure drops between the Colts balls and the Pats balls couldn't be explained. Here is a quote from one of the scientists:

 

On the key question of which gauge was used by referee Walt Anderson to test the PSI levels of the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game, Deflategate investigator Ted Wells punted.

Instead, on a conference call today, Wells turned that question over to his partner, Lorin Reisner. And Reisner then claimed that it doesn’t matter.

“The question of which gauge was used by Walt Anderson before the game — it just doesn’t effect any of the ultimate conclusions,” Reisner said. “The difference in the pressure drops between the two teams was found to be statistically significant regardless of the gauge used.”

 

This is what the AEI report has called foul on. They have proven that the Colts balls sitting in the warm room for 15 minutes longer than the Pats balls when they were measured makes the bold comment null and void. The Colts balls reinflated significantly during that 15 minutes.

[dw49]

Under the "society and culture" part of their mission statement I would presume. They also did their own research on Bounty Gate. This organization is an independent think tank. They don't do contract work - they are a non-profit. So nobody goes to them and says "hey we'll pay you $x to study this". Secondly, they are NOT a "group of economists". They are a group of academics from all disciplines, representing I believe it said over 200 universities across the country.

 

These guys are legit, and they are heavyweights. This isn't a group of "Patriots fans"...and they say the Wells report's science was poorly done and not credible. That's reality. You can shoot the messenger all you like. Obviously, I love this report...but it can't be dismissed as a "bought and paid for" effort.

 

Maybe you can stroke this report like a nice puppy while watching NE play without Brady. I don't really give two craps about the report and to this point in time , it doesn't look like ESPN or NFL.com is very excited either.  It's only 10 more days until Brady's appeal. Maybe something positive for him or NE will arise from that process. But if I were you , I wouldn't expect too much.

[dw49]

lol..do you really think that this AEI report was done by "economists who don't know anything about science"? Read up on AEI at some point...this isn't a hack outfit...they are extremely credible and not just a bunch of "economists".

 

 

No.. I don't feel like reading up on them. You claim to have done it , so just tell me how many scientist are employed by that group. and LOL.. is correct cause I'm laughing at you for thinking this is some earth shattering news that is going to reverse the whole decision. You and AM football are in for a big disappointment I'm afraid.

 

Excuse me for being rude but you people really are annoying with all your nonsense. 

 

My favorite two were....

 

1) Kraft will destroy Goodall in court. He will be out of a job. For sure he will take this to the highest court.  uh.. huh

 

2) Good chance that Wells will prove that it was the Colts that tampered with the intercepted ball. "it was the only ball that was deflated more than a tick to two."   So .. NE innocent .. Colts guilty....uh huh.

[Lawrence Owen]

Fact is..Brady won't take it to court. If he does..Court WILL order him to produce the Phone from that time. And if he does not or Claims he can not, the court will automatically find him in contempt and produce a guilty verdict just off that.  That is how the U.S. judicial system works.  

AND on top of that...smoking guns are NOT needed in the judicial system. IF Enough circumstantial evidence is provided, it is concluded as a guilty charge.  Those who argue against this do not know the court systems very well, or are lying to themselves, or others, to save face. 

[HOZER]

Under the "society and culture" part of their mission statement I would presume. They also did their own research on Bounty Gate. This organization is an independent think tank. They don't do contract work - they are a non-profit. So nobody goes to them and says "hey we'll pay you $x to study this". Secondly, they are NOT a "group of economists". They are a group of academics from all disciplines, representing I believe it said over 200 universities across the country.

These guys are legit, and they are heavyweights. This isn't a group of "Patriots fans"...and they say the Wells report's science was poorly done and not credible. That's reality. You can shoot the messenger all you like. Obviously, I love this report...but it can't be dismissed as a "bought and paid for" effort.

Non profit, lol....You might want to do some research on AEI, specifically their involvement with exxon mobile.

[Bad Morty]

No.. I don't feel like reading up on them. You claim to have done it , so just tell me how many scientist are employed by that group. and LOL.. is correct cause I'm laughing at you for thinking this is some earth shattering news that is going to reverse the whole decision. You and AM football are in for a big disappointment I'm afraid.

 

Excuse me for being rude but you people really are annoying with all your nonsense. 

 

My favorite two were....

 

1) Kraft will destroy Goodall in court. He will be out of a job. For sure he will take this to the highest court.  uh.. huh

 

2) Good chance that Wells will prove that it was the Colts that tampered with the intercepted ball. "it was the only ball that was deflated more than a tick to two."   So .. NE innocent .. Colts guilty....uh huh.

Oh I don't expect Goodell will back down on the punishment at all. He is too gutless to do the right thing and risk the wrath of the pitchfork carrying mob who wants the Patriots punished in order to give them a better chance to win. I've accepted that. I'm just happy to see that the charges against them have been proven to be laughably false...it's a legacy thing now.