Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results

[amfootball]

So why would someone take 12 footballs in with then to take a leak? Despite the fact that my calculations show that there was tampering and all

Gee I don't know. Maybe because he had to take a leak? It is not like anyone saw him yet he was in there for the time estimated to take a leak versus taking his sweet time to deflate 12 balls that never showed any tampering at half time. So you do the math. The only Pats football that we know for sure was tampered with was by the Colts on the sideline when they stuck a gauge in it thereby ruling it out of the halftime measurements ...

[Bad Morty]

 

 

There is no proof that balls weren't deflated.

read the above sentence again...see if you can stop yourself from laughing out loud. I couldn't.

[jvan1973]

No more so than Wells assuming that every text between JJ and McNally was related to deflating footballs below the legal psi after they were checked by the refs. You asked for other explanations and there have been other explanations by JJ and McNally as outlined by Yee and the Pats context report. And really that is all that is necessary to show different inferences and meaning which is why the NFL will have a tough time should this go to court with just text messages as their main ammunition.

Also, the lack of full cooperation from Brady. That's all they need

[Bubbz]

You have made me change my opinion. Clearly, a 2 paragraph set of calculations by "some guy from the internet" carries far more weight than the opinion of a research organization whose business is to study and analyze this type of thing.

Well if they're wrong feel free to point out where I messed up. I guess you could ignore the researchers who agree with me as well

[jvan1973]

I have no idea. Roger could exonerate Brady, unlikely I think. Or he could go to court or accept a reduced suspension. Much of it is immaterial in my view. I do not believe the AFCCG balls were tampered with at all and I do believe this commish is an incompetent boob which is how I felt about him before deflategate so really nothing has changed.

Clearly the billionaires who own the league disagree with you. Not surprising

[dw49]

read the above sentence again...see if you can stop yourself from laughing out loud. I couldn't.

 

 

Did you know there is actually a surgery that kind of is that ? I'll PM you

[Bubbz]

Gee I don't know. Maybe because he had to take a leak? It is not like anyone saw him yet he was in there for the time estimated to take a leak versus taking his sweet time to deflate 12 balls that never showed any tampering at half time. So you do the math. The only Pats football that we know for sure was tampered with was by the Colts on the sideline when they stuck a gauge in it thereby ruling it out of the halftime measurements ...

Oh ok so it is normal for someone to bring 12 footballs into a bathroom with them.

So the whole, "there is no evidence ANY of the balls were tampered with " nonsense u were spewing was just more garbage now that you're backpedaling and saying something completely different? Now you're implying the colts tampered with the ball and there are just all these strange coincidences surrounding the investigation including incriminating text messages. You're unbelievable

[HOZER]

read the above sentence again...see if you can stop yourself from laughing out loud. I couldn't.

Still waiting on that link.......

[amfootball]

Also, the lack of full cooperation from Brady. That's all they need

7 hours of testimony from him with Wells, then another 10 at the appeal under oath and the ball boys two phones is not being uncooperative.

[Bubbz]

7 hours of testimony from him with Wells, then another 10 at the appeal under oath and the ball boys two phones is not being uncooperative.

He said full cooperation, which Brady has not been fully cooPerative. You say under oath like it is some sort of truth serum

[amfootball]

He said full cooperation, which Brady has not been fully cooPerative. You say under oath like it is some sort of truth serum

Wells said he substantially cooperated in the report. So yeah, good luck with that.

[Gramz]

Gee I don't know. Maybe because he had to take a leak? It is not like anyone saw him yet he was in there for the time estimated to take a leak versus taking his sweet time to deflate 12 balls that never showed any tampering at half time. So you do the math. The only Pats football that we know for sure was tampered with was by the Colts on the sideline when they stuck a gauge in it thereby ruling it out of the halftime measurements ...

He said that on the day of the AFC Championship Game, he entered the bathroom, dropped the ball bags to his left, and used the urinal to his right. That bathroom, however, does not contain a urinal. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

if there was an actual scheme to deflate balls to gain a competitive advantage, every single ball would have been significantly and unequivocally below where they should have been regardless of which gauge was used. If the best you can tell me is that 6 balls were 0.2 PSI below the ideal gas law on one of the gauges, you really don't have evidence of a plot to cheat.

 

No, your math is wrong.  One ball is 0.7 PSI below minimum predicted by the IGL, another 0.5 PSI  below, another 0.35 below, and yet another 0.3 PSI below.  A 5th at 0.25 below. There's 3 - 4 balls significantly under the absolute minimum allowed by that now famous Ideal Gas Law., and 5 total balls measure more than your "0,2 PSI below the Ideal Gas Law".

 

And, just as importantly, you need to explain why the Colts balls under same conditions were significantly more in range than the Patriots balls, never falling out of range  predicted by the Ideal Gas Law no matter what gauge was used, like many of the Patriots balls did. Lucy... 'splain...

[ColtsBlueFL]

if there was an actual scheme to deflate balls to gain a competitive advantage, every single ball would have been significantly and unequivocally below where they should have been regardless of which gauge was used. If the best you can tell me is that 6 balls were 0.2 PSI below the ideal gas law on one of the gauges, you really don't have evidence of a plot to cheat.

 

No, your math is wrong.  One ball is 0.7 PSI below minimum predicted by the IGL, another 0.5 PSI  below, another 0.35 below, and yet another 0.3 PSI below.  A 5th at 0.25 below. There's 3 - 4 balls significantly under the absolute minimum allowed by that now famous Ideal Gas Law., and 5 total balls measure more than your "0,2 PSI below the Ideal Gas Law".

 

And, just as importantly, you need to explain why the Colts balls under same conditions were significantly more in range than the Patriots balls, never falling out of range  predicted by the Ideal Gas Law no matter what gauge was used, like many of the Patriots balls did. Lucy... 'splain...

[amfootball]

No, your math is wrong.  One ball is 0.7 PSI below minimum predicted by the IGL, another 0.5 PSI  below, another 0.35 below, and yet another 0.3 PSI below.  A 5th at 0.25 below. There's 3 - 4 balls significantly under the absolute minimum allowed by that now famous Ideal Gas Law., and 5 total balls measure more than your "0,2 PSI below the Ideal Gas Law".

 

And, just as importantly, you need to explain why the Colts balls under same conditions were significantly more in range than the Patriots balls, never falling out of range  predicted by the Ideal Gas Law no matter what gauge was used, like many of the Patriots balls did. Lucy... 'splain...

Two points here:

 

1) Colts balls were measured after the Pats balls and would have warmed up more being inside thereby raising the psi. And not all of the Colts balls were measure either only 4 with one being thrown out so only 3. So in reality there is no case study here at all. 11 Pats balls to only 3 for Colts so flawed case study from the get go.

 

2) Pats footballs were played with longer as they had more offensive plays than the Colts in the first half

[crazycolt1]

Gee I don't know. Maybe because he had to take a leak? It is not like anyone saw him yet he was in there for the time estimated to take a leak versus taking his sweet time to deflate 12 balls that never showed any tampering at half time. So you do the math. The only Pats football that we know for sure was tampered with was by the Colts on the sideline when they stuck a gauge in it thereby ruling it out of the halftime measurements ...

So he took a leak in a room with no toilet or urinal?

[jvan1973]

7 hours of testimony from him with Wells, then another 10 at the appeal under oath and the ball boys two phones is not being uncooperative.

the testimony at the appeal is irrelevant.

[crazycolt1]

7 hours of testimony from him with Wells, then another 10 at the appeal under oath and the ball boys two phones is not being uncooperative.

Where is Brady's phone and records? Where is his cooperation that would show the equipment men's text wasn't about footballs? You are grasping big time. It's pretty sad with the time and effort you have put into all this it couldn't have been used for a better purpose. I am on disability and don't work and I don't have the time to spend arguing on anything as much as you have on this. That's right, arguing. Everything someone else has to say, report or have an opinion of you take it upon yourself to debunk it. The only place you have debunked anything is in your own mind. You are so possessed with this it is really alarming. Might I suggest seeing a phycologist?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Two points here:

 

1) Colts balls were measured after the Pats balls and would have warmed up more being inside thereby raising the psi. And not all of the Colts balls were measure either only 4 with one being thrown out so only 3. So in reality there is no case study here at all. 11 Pats balls to only 3 for Colts so flawed case study from the get go.

 

2) Pats footballs were played with longer as they had more offensive plays than the Colts in the first half

 

1.) is wrong, because in Wells report, it states it took up to 4 minutes in the locker room to get set up to test the balls with Blakeman and Prioleau (back up Refs).  it took up to 5 minutes more to test the Pats balls.  That's from say 4 to 9 minutes into half time.  from 9-11 or 12 minutes, they test 4 Colts balls and then had to stop and rush the game balls back to the field for play.Halftime was slated 13 minutes total.  They were late, which is why they had the gaffe on first play of half getting a correct game ball in play.

 

So your theory those Pats balls test at between 7 and 9 minutes should have been fairly close to the original value, like the Colts balls were.  10 of the 11 Pats weren't' really even that close.

 

2.) is wrong  because amount of play doesn't affect temperature.  Unless hands on the warm them up even higher than the 52 degree F weather.  But that makes the numbers even worse... 

 

I just do not accept those answers as being the reason.  My numbers are real, your retort is guesswork.

[amfootball]

the testimony at the appeal is irrelevant.

lol. No it's not. If this goes to fed court all of the appeals records will be sent to the judge. Part of Brady's case to fight the suspension assuming Roger upholds it will be what happened during the appeal and his testimony. That is why he did it under oath.

[amfootball]

1.) is wrong, because in Wells report, it states it took up to 4 minutes in the locker room to get set up to test the ball with Blakeman and Prioleau (back up Refs).  it tokk up to 5 minutes to test the Pats balls.  That's from say for to 9 minutes into half time.  from 9-11 or 12 minutes, they test 4 Colts balls and then had to stop and rush the game balls back to the field for play.Halftime was slated 13 minutes total.  They were late, which is why they had the gaffe on first play of half getting a correct game ball in play.

 

So your theory those Pats balls test at between 8 an 9 minutes should have been fairly close to the original value, like the Colts balls were.  10 of the 11 Pats weren't' really even that close.

 

2.) is wrong  because amount of play doesn't affect temperature.  Unless hands on the warm them up even higher than the 52 degree F weather.  But that makes the numbers even worse... 

 

I just do not accept those answers as being the reason.  My numbers are real, your retort is guesswork.

1) Minutes of sitting at room temperature will raise the psi. There are a ton of articles on this if you want to google it. And again the test case is flawed. You can't say the Pats balls did not measure the same as the Colts when only 3 Colts balls were measured and they were measured at a later time than the Pats. They would have had to been gauged at the same time to prove a discrepancy for air pressure. And all 11 not just 3.

 

2) Of course amount of play affects pressure because we are talking about pigskin. The more the leather is compromised from play the more it will degrade and cause loss of air pressure. Again, there are also articles on this if you want to google.

 

This stuff honestly has been discussed at length by those that have studied the Wells report since its release in May and has proved that the test case scenario the NFL tried to set up is flawed it its premise and its conclusions based on the flawed premise. As one writer said, NFL officials are officials not scientists and that part is painfully clear with their haphazard job of trying to prove tampering.

[crazycolt1]

lol. No it's not. If this goes to fed court all of the appeals records will be sent to the judge. Part of Brady's case to fight the suspension assuming Roger upholds it will be what happened during the appeal and his testimony. That is why he did it under oath.

This will not go to fed court. This is an in house matter. Brady's infraction is not a civil or criminal matter for a fed court to hear. Where do come up with all these crazy ideas?

[NewColtsFan]

Wells said he substantially cooperated in the report. So yeah, good luck with that.

 

You quote that as if that's ALL Wells said,  and everyone here knows that not all that Wells said.   

 

Why do you think your arguments gain no traction here?    Because you have repeatedly and deliberately distorted all your positions.

 

Brady's refusal to let his lawyer turn over the transcripts of the texts is HUGE to the NFL.     It shows lack of cooperation.   And Brady's answers that were contradicted by other testimony doesn't help either.

 

Plus,  the team's refusal to present to the two equipment guys for another round of interviews shows further lack of cooperation.

 

Those tiny little factoids always seem to NOT appear in your posts.     Your attempts to white wash this entire thing undermines the last 5 and a half months of nonsense that you've been posting here.

[SteelCityColt]

1) Minutes of sitting at room temperature will raise the psi. There are a ton of articles on this if you want to google it. And again the test case is flawed. You can't say the Pats balls did not measure the same as the Colts when only 3 Colts balls were measured and they were measured at a later time than the Pats. They would have had to been gauged at the same time to prove a discrepancy for air pressure.

 

2) Of course amount of play affects pressure because we are talking about pigskin. The more the leather is compromised from play the more it will degrade and cause loss of air pressure. Again, there are also articles on this if you want to google.

 

This stuff honestly has been discussed at length by those that have studied the Wells report since its release in May and has proved that the test case scenario the NFL tried to set up is flawed it its premise and its conclusions based on the flawed premise. As one writer said, NFL officials are officials not scientists and that part is painfully clear with their haphazard job of trying to prove tampering.

You're commitment to delusion is admirable.

Seriously read ColtsBlueFL post on the science behind this and convincingly debunk it without half baked ideas that have no grounding if you can. Or continue with circular arguements of no substance.

Leather degradation leading to pressure loss... My aching sides.

[amfootball]

You quote that as if that's ALL Wells said,  and everyone here knows that not all that Wells said.   

 

Why do you think your arguments gain no traction here?    Because you have repeatedly and deliberately distorted all your positions.

 

Brady's refusal to let his lawyer turn over the transcripts of the texts is HUGE to the NFL.     It shows lack of cooperation.   And Brady's answers that were contradicted by other testimony doesn't help either.

 

Plus,  the team's refusal to present to the two equipment guys for another round of interviews shows further lack of cooperation.

 

Those tiny little factoids always seem to NOT appear in your posts.     Your attempts to white wash this entire thing undermines the last 5 and a half months of nonsense that you've been posting here.

I never denied those parts, I just don't think that will be enough for the NFL given they don't have the science to prove tampering occurred. We will see how it all turns out ...

[dw49]

So he took a leak in a room with no toilet or urinal?

 

 

Maybe they should ask for the shoes he was wearing that day.

[Bubbz]

, I just don't think that will be enough for the NFL given they don't have the science to prove tampering occurred. We will see how it all turns out ...

Yes they do

[amfootball]

Maybe they should ask for the shoes he was wearing that day.

What shoes?

[Shane Bond]

Deflategate is a joke.

This does not diminish Patriots championship.

They would have won with watermelons.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1) Minutes of sitting at room temperature will raise the psi. There are a ton of articles on this if you want to google it. And again the test case is flawed. You can't say the Pats balls did not measure the same as the Colts when only 3 Colts balls were measured and they were measured at a later time than the Pats. They would have had to been gauged at the same time to prove a discrepancy for air pressure. And all 11 not just 3.

 

2) Of course amount of play affects pressure because we are talking about pigskin. The more the leather is compromised from play the more it will degrade and cause loss of air pressure. Again, there are also articles on this if you want to google.

 

This stuff honestly has been discussed at length by those that have studied the Wells report since its release in May and has proved that the test case scenario the NFL tried to set up is flawed it its premise and its conclusions based on the flawed premise. As one writer said, NFL officials are officials not scientists and that part is painfully clear with their haphazard job of trying to prove tampering.

 

Some Pats balls were sitting too and they didn't raise up in pressure.  You need to run a test and prove your theory in order for it to be considered credible. You haven't, so it is not.  Next....

 

The bladder inside is the item that keeps the size shape, and volume constant on the 'Duke".  Not the leather.  However, it is noted that the leather for the NFL balls uses the best part of the cowhide too.  And only 1 guy makes the bladder for the Wilson football, he's been doing it 27 years and the process is top secret, and Wilson is quite proud of it-

 

 

It's a $100.00 ball that is designed to hold it's official size and shape. A quality product, from ball to ball.  Next...

[jvan1973]

lol. No it's not. If this goes to fed court all of the appeals records will be sent to the judge. Part of Brady's case to fight the suspension assuming Roger upholds it will be what happened during the appeal and his testimony. That is why he did it under oath.

It is irrelevant in the lack of full cooperation during the initial investigation

[amfootball]

It is irrelevant in the lack of full cooperation during the initial investigation

Sure. But if this goes to court than the appeal becomes part of the equation and a big part at that depending on how Roger rules and his reasons for upholding the suspension or part of it.

[crazycolt1]

Deflategate is a joke.

This does not diminish Patriots championship.

They would have won with watermelons.

Pretty lame.

[Shane Bond]

Pretty lame.

Darn it, You have figured it out .

But seriously, that's a championship team. Watermelon would have worked.

[dw49]

What shoes?

 

 

If he was peeing in a urinal that didn't exist , his shoes would be urine soaked.. no? This could be huge...

[jvan1973]

Sure. But if this goes to court than the appeal becomes part of the equation and a big part at that depending on how Roger rules and his reasons for upholding the suspension or part of it.

If it goes to court the ball boys will also be oath for the first time. They will have to answer some tough questions about those incriminating text messages

[ColtRider]

Deflategate is a joke.

This does not diminish Patriots championship.

They would have won with watermelons.

"DeFlateGate is a joke."

DeFlateGate is about skirting the rules, thus cheating, in order to gain an advantage. Does not matter if Pats won 100-0.

"This does not diminish Patriots Championship."

Oh yes, it does. (McGuire, Sosa, Bonds) *Asterisks City, SportsArena

"They would have won with watermelons."

"Deflated" watermelons? What a mess that would make.

[ColtsBlueFL]

snipped}

 

The only Pats football that we know for sure was tampered with was by the Colts on the sideline when they stuck a gauge in it thereby ruling it out of the halftime measurements ...

 

It wasn't part of the official half time measurements, but it was measured, 3 separate times.  Yes, even after a warmup.  the pressures recorded were written on athletic tape stuck on the ball to keep it separate from the others. The pressures?  11.45, 11.35, 11.75 PSI.  No where near the 12.5 it should have come close to getting to once warmed up.  Next...

[amfootball]

If it goes to court the ball boys will also be oath for the first time. They will have to answer some tough questions about those incriminating text messages

Yep. Everything is in play on both sides ...

[ColtsBlueFL]

Deflategate is a joke.

This does not diminish Patriots championship.

They would have won with watermelons.

 

You know, I agree to a good extent.  I still feel Brady should get 1 game for knowledge of tampering and 1 game for obstruction.  If he would have owned up at press conference and said something like  "Yeah, i have the ball boys try to get them through Ref checks as low as possible.  I never imagined they might try other illegal methods to get them the way I like though".  The same I feel for Andy Pettitte syndrome.Came clean and nobody riles on him like they do Bonds, McGwire, A. Rod  etc...

 

I would have been for a 25k - 50k team fine. and move on.  We know it didn't affect Colts game, but what about the Ravens game the week before?