Hypothetical TY Hilton trade

[TKnight24]

AC is priority #2.

Eh, toss up there. But I see your point

[Shepman]

I would consider transition tag instead of franchise tag if a deal couldn't be worked out in time.

[Valpo2004]

I have been thinking about a TY trade as well.  Reality is that given his production, lack of injury history, the guy is going to get a big money contract. 

 

Right now I think 10M APY is likely too small. 

 

Honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him get more then 12M APY.

 

If D Thomas and D Bryant get their contracts worked out, he'll likely be the top FA available.

[bap1331]

Can we lock this thread? I dont want TY Hilton reading through these posts getting ideas. Next thing we know, he will sit out training camp.

 

Signed,

All concerned COLTS fans...

[SteelDragon]

TY will. remain a Colt. Grigs would be a fool to let him walk. TY and Luck will have five years of experience together and you can't put a price tag on that kind of chemistry. On this team, TY is the best offensive player not named Andrew Luck in an offense that is heavily predicated on the passing game.

Grigs has shown he will invest heavily in the offense. I can't fathom that he's going to abort that plan for something less certain. We know TY is a certainty, you don't roll the dice and hope u can eventually have someone that is 'As good". Pay the man, Shirley!

[CanuckColt]

Grigs is not going to get held up by Rozensleaze for top WR dollars.

T.Y. will need to sign a reasonable contract or he's gone and Grigs gets a high comp.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

TY is a receiver on the Colts franchise. Irsay and company will break the bank to keep

one of their glamour positions intact and on the roster, so don't fret about losing our

little receiver.

 

How else would we keep our 'finesse franchise' tag if we don't have a blue million

receivers on the team, now if he was a decent lineman then he would probably

be let go.

[southwest1]

Maybe not, but at this point, it's a realistic topic to discuss. With Phillip Dorsett being drafted and the 2012 draft class being re-signed, the odds are pretty decent that there's a chance that Hilton isn't re-signed. Personally, if we don't re-sign him, I'd rather get a Botonio or Zack Martin type player for him rather than a 3rd round comp pick.

Just to play along with your hypothetical premise...The 1 thing giving slight credence to this topic is this: TY's agent I believe is Drew Rosenhaus. Drew has a reputation for getting his clients a lucrative deal in their 2nd contract, which is his job naturally.

 

My point is this: I don't wanna break the bank on 1 guy not playing the QB position. Now, TY's definitely earned a significant raise in pay & I don't see him leaving Luck. However, Drew has a knack for playing hardball with franchises money wise & it wouldn't surprise me if Drew played the my client can go elsewhere for more benjamins card.

 

I want Dorsett used as a return guy on special teams personally not WR in his rookie year. 

[southwest1]

TY is a receiver on the Colts franchise. Irsay and company will break the bank to keep

one of their glamour positions intact and on the roster, so don't fret about losing our

little receiver.

 

How else would we keep our 'finesse franchise' tag if we don't have a blue million

receivers on the team, now if he was a decent lineman then he would probably

be let go.

Good one GBTLP. I feel your frustration man. I truly do. 

 

I remember once when John Dee wrote in a thread awhile back maybe a year or so ago about what he'd give up for offensive tackle Joe Thomas of the Browns. It got me thinking how it upsets me that Grigs spent a 1st round pick in 2015 on a WR. Grigs played in the trenches himself why does he always go after TEs & WRs? Grrr! Yeah I know, I like Anderson as a DE so he did address defense later, but both lines needed work & you don't waste the 1st pick on a speed guy. Go after a pass rusher or a lineman man. 

 

I'm starting to think Grigs would pass up a solid guard for a WR any day of the week & it's getting irritating to me. 

[NewEra]

I'm not going anywhere, oh wait....

[lollygagger8]

Trade Hilton???? 

 

 

[azcolt]

First of all, I really hope the Colts can resign Hilton under an affordable contract. Something around 10 mil per. A WR core of Hilton, Moncrief, Dorsett, and Carter looks great for the future. But if things don't go well in negotiations, I would hope we could at least get something for him in return.

That said, what could Hilton get us in a trade? I'm thinking two 2nd round picks.

While no one wants to see TY go, his remarks after Dorsett was drafted didn't exactly sound like a guy who is a Horseshoe for Life. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes but it has certainly been speculated that the Dorsett pick was more about 2016, than 2015. The trouble is no team would overpay for a guy one year from free agency who they think is willing to walk away from the Colt's powerhouse offense over some Benjamins.

[Valpo2004]

Can we lock this thread? I dont want TY Hilton reading through these posts getting ideas. Next thing we know, he will sit out training camp.

 

Signed,

All concerned COLTS fans...

 

That wouldn't look good for him at all if he's looking to get big money later on.  Besides not being in camp can hurt his season and a sudden big drop in his stats for 2015 would kill his value.  

 

Players who holdout usually have several years left on their contract and want to redo it now.  Guys on their contract year want to go out there and play the best football they have ever played.

 

If you are an agent you would push the Colts for a fair contract but you tell TY to just go out there on the field and worry about playing good football.  

[ProblChld32]

Why are we discussing speculation and hypothetical? TY isnt going anywhere, He will be a Colt for a long time, 

[CanuckColt]

Delete This Tom Foolery

Never mind. This is good stuff.

[zibby43]

Maybe not, but at this point, it's a realistic topic to discuss. With Phillip Dorsett being drafted and the 2012 draft class being re-signed, the odds are pretty decent that there's a chance that Hilton isn't re-signed. Personally, if we don't re-sign him, I'd rather get a Botonio or Zack Martin type player for him rather than a 3rd round comp pick.

 

Did anyone hear the Grigson interview with Dan Dakich?

 

Dakich asked point blank, "Will you resign Castonzo and Hilton?"  Grigson's reply: "Yes.  Not only are these guys talented players, they epitomize everything this organization stands for.  The are constantly working hard, they never take a play off, and they are their own harshest critics."

 

I'm paraphrasing everything except the "yes" part.  That is verbatim what Grigson said.

[zibby43]

While no one wants to see TY go, his remarks after Dorsett was drafted didn't exactly sound like a guy who is a Horseshoe for Life. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes but it has certainly been speculated that the Dorsett pick was more about 2016, than 2015. The trouble is no team would overpay for a guy one year from free agency who they think is willing to walk away from the Colt's powerhouse offense over some Benjamins.

 

The Dorsett pick was simply about the fact that he was the most talented player on the board when the Colts' pick arrived.

 

Grigson didn't want to dip into another position group and pick someone with lesser talent just because it was a need when there was a game-changing WR/returner with elite speed on the board.

 

The Colts' return game has been anemic in recent years (and that's being kind).  Dorsett should immediately make an impact at punt returner.  I see him getting about the same amount of snaps as Moncrief did his rookie year.

[Yoshinator]

Did anyone hear the Grigson interview with Dan Dakich?

 

Dakich asked point blank, "Will you resign Castonzo and Hilton?"  Grigson's reply: "Yes.  Not only are these guys talented players, they epitomize everything this organization stands for.  The are constantly working hard, they never take a play off, and they are their own harshest critics."

 

I'm paraphrasing everything except the "yes" part.  That is verbatim what Grigson said.

You aren't too bright, are you? I said this on May 16, when there was plenty of talk about Dorsett replacing Hilton and also when Hilton was upset about Dorsett being drafted. I'm not sure how I could hear an interview Grigson had on August 5th three months later when I posted this three months earlier. Next time, check the dates on the threads you are posting on.

[Gavin]

You aren't too bright, are you? I said this on May 16, when there was plenty of talk about Dorsett replacing Hilton and also when Hilton was upset about Dorsett being drafted. I'm not sure how I could hear an interview Grigson had on August 5th three months later when I posted this three months earlier. Next time, check the dates on the threads you are posting on.

"You aren't too bright, are you?"

 

Was it really THAT necessary to say that? That's a good way to get somebody to start a thread war with you next thing you know you get pages and page sof back and forth meaningless verbal assaults to the point that mods eventually get tired of it and then a good thread gets closed....All because somebody didn't think before he decided to thump his chest uneccesarily

 

 

Im not trying to single you out, you are not the first and wont be the last, Just trying to give you an idea of how things can get out of hand quick with a single chest thumping comment

[Dark Superman]

Just to play along with your hypothetical premise...The 1 thing giving slight credence to this topic is this: TY's agent I believe is Drew Rosenhaus. Drew has a reputation for getting his clients a lucrative deal in their 2nd contract, which is his job naturally.

 

My point is this: I don't wanna break the bank on 1 guy not playing the QB position. Now, TY's definitely earned a significant raise in pay & I don't see him leaving Luck. However, Drew has a knack for playing hardball with franchises money wise & it wouldn't surprise me if Drew played the my client can go elsewhere for more benjamins card.

 

I want Dorsett used as a return guy on special teams personally not WR in his rookie year. 

 

I totally agree with this. Between Rosenhaus and the new contract extensions for Thomas and Bryant, TY Hilton's price just went up. I think ultimately it's going to come down to guaranteed money, but out of curiosity, how much do you value TY Hilton? What's your price range?

[Yoshinator]

"You aren't too bright, are you?"

 

Was it really THAT necessary to say that? That's a good way to get somebody to start a thread war with you next thing you know you get pages and page sof back and forth meaningless verbal assaults to the point that mods eventually get tired of it and then a good thread gets closed....All because somebody didn't think before he decided to thump his chest uneccesarily

 

 

Im not trying to single you out, you are not the first and wont be the last, Just trying to give you an idea of how things can get out of hand quick with a single chest thumping comment

It was necessary, he quoted me and acted like I was stupid for not hearing the Grigson interview a couple days ago, when my post was almost 3 months ago. If he wouldn't of quoted me, I wouldn't of said that. He made a mistake 100%, he won't start anything. Not a big deal.

[Buck Showalter]

You aren't too bright, are you? I said this on May 16, when there was plenty of talk about Dorsett replacing Hilton and also when Hilton was upset about Dorsett being drafted. I'm not sure how I could hear an interview Grigson had on August 5th three months later when I posted this three months earlier. Next time, check the dates on the threads you are posting on.

Awesome post...

[BProland85]

The Dorsett pick was simply about the fact that he was the most talented player on the board when the Colts' pick arrived.

Grigson didn't want to dip into another position group and pick someone with lesser talent just because it was a need when there was a game-changing WR/returner with elite speed on the board.

The Colts' return game has been anemic in recent years (and that's being kind). Dorsett should immediately make an impact at punt returner. I see him getting about the same amount of snaps as Moncrief did his rookie year.

So what happens next year when there's another game changer at WR but we still have key needs at OL and defense? At some point you gotta realize what you already have and try to improve the team in other areas of need to the best of your ability. Don't get me wrong. I think Dorsett can be great. I just don't want to see a repeat of this in the coming drafts. If Hilton is resigned, we shouldn't need to draft WRs early for a while.

[zibby43]

You aren't too bright, are you? I said this on May 16, when there was plenty of talk about Dorsett replacing Hilton and also when Hilton was upset about Dorsett being drafted. I'm not sure how I could hear an interview Grigson had on August 5th three months later when I posted this three months earlier. Next time, check the dates on the threads you are posting on.

 

Um . . . I wasn't calling you out.  And I absolutely saw the date.  I was just asking if anyone had heard the recent interview because it shed some more light on the thinking behind the Dorsett pick.

 

But thank you for the kind words. 

[zibby43]

So what happens next year when there's another game changer at WR but we still have key needs at OL and defense? At some point you gotta realize what you already have and try to improve the team in other areas of need to the best of your ability. Don't get me wrong. I think Dorsett can be great. I just don't want to see a repeat of this in the coming drafts. If Hilton is resigned, we shouldn't need to draft WRs early for a while.

 

I understand what you're saying (and you make a good point) but we're dealing with hypotheticals now.  If we were already loaded at WR, I don't think Grigson would've made that pick, irrespective of talent.  Coming into this draft, we had just lost Wayne and Nicks.  We picked up Johnson, but he's more of a band aid (albeit a damn good one).  Carter is a wildcard. 

 

If Grigson didn't pull the trigger on Dorsett, our WR corps would've looked like this: Hilton, Moncrief, Johnson (still talented but aging and not going to be around for the long-haul), Carter (a low-risk experiment), and Whalen.

 

That's a very solid group of WRs but the addition of Dorsett makes it one of the best WR groups in the league. 

 

If we resign Hilton and everyone stays healthy, I agree that drafting another WR in the 1st would be a little much.

[zibby43]

It was necessary, he quoted me and acted like I was stupid for not hearing the Grigson interview a couple days ago, when my post was almost 3 months ago. If he wouldn't of quoted me, I wouldn't of said that. He made a mistake 100%, he won't start anything. Not a big deal.

 

Wow.  You inferred a lot from my post.  As I said in my other reply, I was merely asking if ANYONE, not you specifically, had heard the recent Grigson interview that dealt with the "Why Dorsett?" question. 

 

And on the subject of my brightness, I have an undergraduate degree (with honors) and a doctorate.  Thanks for caring.

[Gavin]

So what happens next year when there's another game changer at WR but we still have key needs at OL and defense? At some point you gotta realize what you already have and try to improve the team in other areas of need to the best of your ability. Don't get me wrong. I think Dorsett can be great. I just don't want to see a repeat of this in the coming drafts. If Hilton is resigned, we shouldn't need to draft WRs early for a while.

Grigson don't draft on need, He is smart enough to know drafting for need (unless the talent matches that need) is a terrible judge of talent

[dw49]

Um . . . I wasn't calling you out.  And I absolutely saw the date.  I was just asking if anyone had heard the recent interview because it shed some more light on the thinking behind the Dorsett pick.

 

But thank you for the kind words. 

 

 

Yeah.. there was absolutely nothing wrong with your post. You simply posted what Grigson recently said about resigning Hilton .. and that is pertinent to the thread.  It in no way called anyone out IMO.

[Manning1887]

It depends on the team. I could see a team on the brink of the playoffs with a solid QB situation giving up a first round pick. I am thinking perhaps the Chiefs, Vikings, and Rams. If Kenny Stills commands a 3rd round pick, I think TY could command substantially more. The new contract bears consideration though.

 

What could be interesting is to take a 3rd or 4th in 2016 and a 1st in 2017.

 

I am NOT in a hurry to trade TY by any means. I just can't see paying him $14 million per.

[Manning1887]

Just to play along with your hypothetical premise...The 1 thing giving slight credence to this topic is this: TY's agent I believe is Drew Rosenhaus. Drew has a reputation for getting his clients a lucrative deal in their 2nd contract, which is his job naturally.

 

My point is this: I don't wanna break the bank on 1 guy not playing the QB position. Now, TY's definitely earned a significant raise in pay & I don't see him leaving Luck. However, Drew has a knack for playing hardball with franchises money wise & it wouldn't surprise me if Drew played the my client can go elsewhere for more benjamins card.

 

I want Dorsett used as a return guy on special teams personally not WR in his rookie year. 

 

It would be a mistake for the team to not use Dorsett as a WR in his rookie year. He will give us a boost returning punts, without a doubt. He has insane speed though, which we cannot waste.

 

Imagine Hilton and Dorsett on the outside with Fleener and Johnson roaming the middle of the field. Are you kidding me? How fortunate are we? How is a team going to defend that lineup? We are stacked offensively, I just hope we stay healthy.

[ColtJax]

A few quick points:

 

1) Rosenhaus is overrated, he's a self promoted jerk that makes his name for breaking up already signed contracts. He does nothing better than any other quality agent, but what he does is what he did with T.O and many others. He makes a scene and demands the contract get ripped up so they can get a bigger new one. Sometimes it works great, other times it blows up in the players face.

 

2) So, a young WR can demand 14 million a year but you don't think he's worth a 1st rounder? Would you trade a 1st for Bryant? How about Julio Jones, AJ Green, Antonio Brown or Megatron? Would you think trading a 1st for Odell Beckham, Jordy Nelson or Kelvin Benjamin would be crazy? I wouldn't, and neither would all the teams that spent 1st rounders on WR busts.

 

3) If we make a qualifying offer and he walks we get a draft pick. Judging from what he's asking we might end up with a bottom 2ed round pick or at least a bottom 3ed rounder..

 

4) He's a very good player and we should make every effort to sign him. We could tag him for next year, which would be in the 10 million range. But he wants in now since this year he'll make very little, so the time to make a great deal is now, when he's looking at making peanuts for 2015 and a tag in 2016..

 

5) The salary car juggling is a fine art, one that successful teams have mastered. If we're going to be an elite team we have to master that part first..

[Superman]

2) So, a young WR can demand 14 million a year but you don't think he's worth a 1st rounder? Would you trade a 1st for Bryant? How about Julio Jones, AJ Green, Antonio Brown or Megatron? Would you think trading a 1st for Odell Beckham, Jordy Nelson or Kelvin Benjamin would be crazy? I wouldn't, and neither would all the teams that spent 1st rounders on busts.

 

3) If we make a qualifying offer and he walks we get a draft pick. Judging from what he's asking we might end up with a bottom 2ed round pick or at least a bottom 3ed rounder..

 

2) Whether he's worth a #1 isn't the point, IMO. The point is that it makes little sense to draft a player, develop the player, and then when he's getting ready to reach his prime, ship him off before you even get to reap the full benefit of what you've done. Good teams draft good players, develop them, and retain them, at the right price. If you don't want to pay Hilton because you don't think he's worth the money, that's one thing. But let's not turn this into 'he wants too much, just get rid of him!' That undermines your good drafting and coaching, because you never get the full pay off.

 

3) Highest compensatory pick you can get would be at the end of the third round. And in Hilton's case, that would come in 2017. That doesn't make up for losing a good, young playmaker. 

[ColtStronger]

Are you serious?

With the previous 2 WR classes they are dime a dozen!  People don't realize that yet, but just wait another 2-3 years when these players develope.  OBJ is already rated top 3-5 WR's in the NFL, although I believe that is a joke, but that's what anaylsts are saying, for fantasy football anyway...

[ColtStronger]

First of all, I really hope the Colts can resign Hilton under an affordable contract. Something around 10 mil per. A WR core of Hilton, Moncrief, Dorsett, and Carter looks great for the future. But if things don't go well in negotiations, I would hope we could at least get something for him in return.

That said, what could Hilton get us in a trade? I'm thinking two 2nd round picks.

It is a very unpopular idea, but I think it is a bold move that could be beneficial.  I would resign and trade though, that way teams would be willing to give up more, since he is on his final year of his contract.  I don't think we could get two 2nd rounders for him though!  I would take a 1st, after resigning him and shipping him to a crappy WR needy team.  or a 2nd and future 3rd. 

 

People value WR's too much these days.  If you look at the talent at that position that has came into the league recently it is ridiculous!  I would much rather get a top tier talented prospect on defense, than have TY, and let Carter and Dorsett's potential just sit on the bench!  It would create a more balanced team, IMO.  It's nothing against TY, because he is our best WR, but it's the fact we wouldn't miss him as much as we could use a pro bowl caliber addition to the sub par LB/ front 3! 

 

It seems fans are into the glamour of fantasy football stats and scoring the Colt's offense scoring as many TD's as possible, rather than being balanced, holding teams consistently under 24 pts a game, and still winning football games!  I realize this is a extremely unpopular opinion, but we all have one, and it doesn't make a person who may reply to me, right!!