Caldwell.....(Merge)

[ruksak]

Were we watching the same team this season? They gave up around week 3, it was visable. They only now started to pick it up. Probably because their real leader Manning has been coaching them from the sidelines.

I think the motivation of late has been in spite of Caldwell. Things were such a mess (the QB issue....the Defensive leadership) that SilentHill is right.......there was a palatable culture of quiting throughout the first 2/3 of the season.

....and Skinnz.....tell me honestly that you don't think Manning has the inherent ability to inspire and motivate via his indomitable presence?

You bet your @#% he made a difference. He went from absent, to the upstairs box, to whispering in Painters ear, to pacing the sidelines with fervor over the course of the season. The improvement in the teams moxie escalated with his increased presence. You tellin me this was a coincidence?

[jskinnz]

I think the motivation of late has been in spite of Caldwell. Things were such a mess (the QB issue....the Defensive leadership) that SilentHill is right.......there was a palatable culture of quiting throughout the first 2/3 of the season.

....and Skinnz.....tell me honestly that you don't think Manning has the inherent ability to inspire and motivate via his indomitable presence?

You bet your @#% he made a difference. He went from absent, to the upstairs box, to whispering in Painters ear, to pacing the sidelines with fervor over the course of the season. The improvement in the teams moxie escalated with his increased presence. You tellin me this was a coincidence?

Could not disagree more.

They quit in the first 2/3 of the season? They had close losses in 5 straight games before Saints debacle. Cleveland went down the wire as did Pittsburgh. Tampa they had a lead and were tied late in the game. KC they led for most of the game and against Cincy, they had the ball late with a chance to win before Garcon fumbled. That in and of itself kind of renders your theory moot to say nothing of the fact they made the Panthers and Pats game close.

If Manning made such a difference the last couple of weeks, where was his indomitable spirit in the weeks before that? I don't believe that theory passes the sniff test.

I am not advocating Caldwell keep his job. I just think the belief that his team lost motivation is categorically wrong.

[SilentHill]

I am sure we were watching the same team. Probably the difference of opinion lies with the fact that I know what I am looking at.

Go through the schedule and honestly tell me where they have quit, aside from the Saints game.

And you compounded your nonsense with your comment on Manning.

The defense poured it's heart out in the Pittsburgh game. I saw a massive decline in defense after that. When the defense gave up the offense followed suit. They were trying to make it happen, but if the lost they didn't care because they didn't expect to win, Don't you remember when earlier this season everyone was up in arms because they laughed after a turnover and looked happy after they lost the game? If that isn't giving up I don't know what is, and the facts are Caldwell allowed it.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Lets tell the truth

16-3, 10-7, 3-13

a total of 29-23...

Again, even in that 13-3 season I feel Manning was the team leader. That team could have very easily been 8-8 if not for numerous late game heroics by Manning and co. And we all watched as it happened, Peyton called the plays, the timeouts and basically willed the team to that record.That is why I have stated that this years JC is who he is, mediocre at best, without Peyton carrying him.

[jskinnz]

The defense poured it's heart out in the Pittsburgh game. I saw a massive decline in defense after that. When the defense gave up the offense followed suit. They were trying to make it happen, but if the lost they didn't care because they didn't expect to win, Don't you remember when earlier this season everyone was up in arms because they laughed after a turnover and looked happy after they lost the game? If that isn't giving up I don't know what is, and the facts are Caldwell allowed it.

See my post above to Ruksak. In a season they have lost 13 games, 6 of those games have been by one score or less. And one ten point loss was to the Bengals when they had the ball with a chance to win before Garcon had a brain fart. If that tells you anything, it is that team never quit.

I don't recall the game with the turnover you referenced nor the uproar. Nor do I care or think that it matters to the point I am making. Caldwell has gotten his team to compete. I am not convinced of his X and O ability but his teams have pretty much always played hard. I know he is the poster-child fo NFL ineptitude, but there are some things that he is crucified for that just is not true.

[GoColts8818]

The 2009 team was set up by Tony Dungy. Dungy spent years setting that team up for the years after his retirement. Jim Caldwell took over Tony Dungy's team and didn't change a thing. He just happened to have a phenomenal year from Peyton Manning that season, so that's why they went far. Jim Caldwell didn't bring anything special to the table. His history is bad (look at his Wake Forest record), and he made no impact as an assistant. Tom Moore was the offense coordinator and Clyde helped out. Tom Moore set up that offense.

Everything was in place for Caldwell. If we had a quality coach like a Jeff Fisher like coach, for example, taking over in 2009, he would have done more for this team as people like him bring more to the table than Caldwell.

Larry Coyer was useless. They brought in a guy who had a very different defense in Denver, and they expected him to use the Colts' defense and make it work. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Larry Coyer's dismal presence was due to the FO not giving him the freedom to the what he wants. They contained him. Mike Murphy knows this defense, and has been here for a long time. He's seen what works and doesn't. I only realize this now, but he seemed like the best candidate all along.

If Caldwell wants to be considered a good coach, he's gonna have to win games without his star player. He can't be beating teams who's missing half their roster and playing a 3rd stringer. That's not going to get you anywhere. Every loss isn't his fault, but he is the scapegoat unfortunately. Too bad this guy has no fight in him and can't seem to turn things around. Coaches who realize their on the hot seat try their hardest to try to get off it. He hasn't done anything big that has helped the team. He's not a head coach. He wasn't ready to lead a team, this guy didn't even call the plays when Dungy was the head coach. Plus, he didn't know defense that well and he didn't have a very good D-coordinator that could help him out.

What scares me the most is that this guy is going to be coaching this team in the future. I think he stays. I hope he goes though. How is this guy suppose to change this team after PM's gone. With a healthy PM, he had a tough time making the playoffs. He's gonna have to do drastic changes to this team because going forward, this team can't stay so darn revolved around one freagin player. He needs to start changing things up. This tickes me off the most... I just don't see him doing that. The Polians may give him the liberty of changing a couple of things up, but he won't. This league is evolving every day at every practice, and from what I've seen in the last 5 years from the Colts has not shown me that we're changing much. We still use the same defensive scheme most of the time. We're so pass-heavy, even with Dan Orlovsky as our quarterback, and his play-calling is boring and terrible. It's not unpredictable, which is something great head coaches said that they do (I'll try to find which coach said that, but I think Bill Walsh, Sean Payton and Mike Smith said that). I don't think he was ever ready for this job, and his enthusiasm and personality shows me that he doesn't want to change. He's too scared to change, as if he does a couple of things wrong, he'll get fired, just like Larry Coyer. Larry wanted to blitz, the Polians said no, he did it and BAM! he's gone. Jim Caldwell is too scared to change, and how can the Colts move forward if their coach is too afraid to change?

What's your point about Coyer being useless have to do with anything? You said at first he went to Caldwell and asked for changes in week 15, I was just pointing out to you that he was fired by then so something about what you said was a mistake. Trust me the only reason I didn't like the idea of firing a coach in the middle of a season was that I didn't think it had much upside that had nothing to do with me wanting Coyer to keep his job. I've been calling for his head at the end of the year most of the season.

Caldwell took over a Tony Dungy team and didn't change anything except for a new DC and a new Special Teams coach and since then has also pretty much over hauled the whole coaching staff. So I would say he did make changes. Were they all good changes? No they weren't but to sit here and say he didn't make changes is false. If you want to sit here and rip him for making bad changes that's a different story. Again, there is plunty to attack Caldwell for use that rather than trying to make up more stuff to attack him for. Also why was Caldwell hired? Because he wasn't going to come in here and make giant swooping changes. The Colts wanted a guy that was going to keep what Dungy was doing going. So to blast him for doing exactly what the Colts hired him for shows that you are ignoring what he was hired for and just going on an I hate Jim Caldwell rant.

Again the Colts didn't want a coach like Jeff Fisher to come in and make changes. Also if Caldwell did nothing that year how come that team went 14-2 and probably could have gone 16-0 and got a Super Bowl when Dungy's team the year before finished 12-4 and lost in the first round of the playoffs? Most people at the time pointed to the fact that Coyer did bring a change to the defense that has since regressed. So a coaching change made by Caldwell did seem to have some impact on that season.

Funny up till this year Caldwell was 26-10 as a head coach and many Colts fans said you couldn't just look at his record to say he was a good coach. Now that his record is closer to .500 those same fans are useing his record to say he's a bad coach. Sorry you can't have it both ways. Also the fact he's missing Peyton Manning the guy everything on the team is built around does matter. Like I said before i am not sure many coaches were going to win games this year when they lost Manning at the last second and had to turn to Painter. To just ignore that like that's any other problem in the world to over come just shows again that you are going on an I hate Jim Caldwell rant. You should at least factor that in. Trust me you can still make a very strong case for Jim Caldwell not being a great coach even if you do factor that in.

They are going to have time to plan for Peyton Manning leaving. Having Peyton Manning even tell you at the start of the off-season is much more time to adjust to not having him than finding out the day you made the final roster cut downs this year and that's when they found out or they would have never taken him off of the PUP list. Also when he retires they know he's not coming back and it's time to maybe change the way they do things when he's gone and can make wholesale changes unlike this year where they were trying to make changes to win games but didn't want to completely change the team for one season with the hopes Manning will be back. Also if you notice the last few weeks we have made a rather large change. We are running the ball and beating teams with defense. We aren't counting on the pass nearly as much as we do when Manning is here. Think about how good our ground game is going to be when they have a Peyton Manning back that other teams fear at QB? Even as decent as Orlovsky has been playing people don't fear him and try to stop our run first. With Manning back that is going to change things and I expect to see our ground game explode next year. Also if we get the top pick with Luck and take Luck and he's as good as they say he's going to be we might very well not change the way we do much. We would just tranistion from great QB to another.

Like I said before there is nothing wrong with ripping on Caldwell and there is plunty to do it for. I am just saying keep it fair and don't just start pilling stuff on it because it's pretty clear most people around here don't like the guy. Rip him for his poor second half adjustments, funky time managment and not going to Orlovsky sooner and his questionable choices in the coaching department. you can make a pretty strong case on that stuff alone he shouldn't be brought back without having to add in stuff that is at best an opinion.

[GoColts8818]

Were we watching the same team this season? They gave up around week 3, it was visable. They only now started to pick it up. Probably because their real leader Manning has been coaching them from the sidelines.

Funny up to the last two weeks week three was their best game of the season.

you don't quit on a season and then unquit on the season. It doesn't work like that. Outside of the Saints game when things got away from them and then they did quit that game this team hasn't quit all year. They have been in most of those games and have been playing very hard. They just have not had the talent, namely at the QB spot to win the games. There is a huge difference in not having talent and quiting.

I think a lot of fans love throwing the quit line out there because that goes right back to Caldwell and that's who the fans want to blame.

[GoColts8818]

He had nothing to do with the wins, it's clear as day, If he can't motivate this team now then what makes you think he motivated them to a SB that year? Or are you just chalking this up to coincidence?

As for Painter... Caldwell is a former QB COACH! HELLO! That in itself speaks VOLUMES that he decided to go with Painter at the beginning of the season. I mean cmon man. How can you defend a guy that is flawed in every aspect of his job. He has NEVER had a winning record as a HC in college. What makes you think he can perform at this level? How can you say it wasn't Manning? Do you see where we are this year?

I think he made mistakes in the Super Bowl, No question about it. However, I think Garcon's drop, and Baskett not covering the onside kick and yes even Peyton's INT played a role in that loss too. It wasn't just Caldwell. The players on the field made mistakes in that game too but a lot of fans seem to like to just dismiss all that and put it all on Caldwell. Last time I checked Caldwell didn't make Garcon drop what would have been a huge gain if not a TD, he didn't make Manning throw the INT to Potter (and please don't try to attack me for attacking Manning I think without a doubt Manning is the greatest player in the history of the NFL it doesn't change the fact even he makes mistakes too) and I don't think Caldwell told Baskett to give the ball up just because he heard a ref yelling blue ball.

I didn't say Caldwell wasn't the QB coach. The best coach in the world can't coach a player into having enough talent. I think it's pretty clear Painter just doesn't have enough talent. Like I said in my post if you want to go after Caldwell for not making the change to Orlovsky sooner that is more than fair game. It's not fair game though to blast Caldwell because Curtis Painter doesn't have enough talent to be in the NFL and sure as heck is nothing close to what they had in Peyton Manning and just ignore the Peyton Manning injury like that they should just easily over come that. That's being a bit unrealistic.

As for the rest of your rant plunty of coaches have been great at one level rather it be college or the pros and been really bad at the other. That's why you have to be careful blasting an NFL coach for what he did in college or the other way around. Some coaches are just made for one over the other. Frankly given how he handles himself I think Caldwell is better suited for an NFL job than a college job. Also not every college job is equal, the Wake Forest job is a very hard job, it's not like he took over at Ohio State and ran them into the ground. With that said I will keep saying what I have always said about Caldwell, he's at best an average coach.

I have never said it's not fair to rip on Caldwell. I am just saying stick to what's fair to rip him for and there is plunty out there without trying to pile on just to pile on like a lot of people seem to be doing.

[ruksak]

Could not disagree more.

They quit in the first 2/3 of the season? They had close losses in 5 straight games before Saints debacle. Cleveland went down the wire as did Pittsburgh. Tampa they had a lead and were tied late in the game. KC they led for most of the game and against Cincy, they had the ball late with a chance to win before Garcon fumbled. That in and of itself kind of renders your theory moot to say nothing of the fact they made the Panthers and Pats game close.

Most of these "close" games we got worse as the game went on, the KC game in particular. The team didn't respond. 6 times we've turned the ball over on our first possession! Do you realize how horrific that one stat is? I don't know what you saw, but I saw a bunch of guys with their chins in their chests.

If Manning made such a difference the last couple of weeks, where was his indomitable spirit in the weeks before that? I don't believe that theory passes the sniff test.

I explained this already.

Because there isn't much to watch on the field this year, and because we all miss Peyton so much, many of us have been watching him more then the guys with uniforms on. His presence has escalated as the season progressed. Going from absent, to the booth upstairs, to the sideline where he seemed somewhat detached, to what we've seen over the last few weeks.....him interacting with the players and emoting up and down the sidelines.

I don't think the players respect Caldwell, I know they respect Peyton. I believe any motivation being handed down is not coming form the empty pockets of Coach Caldwell.

[SilentHill]

I think he made mistakes in the Super Bowl, No question about it. However, I think Garcon's drop, and Baskett not covering the onside kick and yes even Peyton's INT played a role in that loss too. It wasn't just Caldwell. The players on the field made mistakes in that game too but a lot of fans seem to like to just dismiss all that and put it all on Caldwell. Last time I checked Caldwell didn't make Garcon drop what would have been a huge gain if not a TD, he didn't make Manning throw the INT to Potter (and please don't try to attack me for attacking Manning I think without a doubt Manning is the greatest player in the history of the NFL it doesn't change the fact even he makes mistakes too) and I don't think Caldwell told Baskett to give the ball up just because he heard a ref yelling blue ball.

I didn't say Caldwell wasn't the QB coach. The best coach in the world can't coach a player into having enough talent. I think it's pretty clear Painter just doesn't have enough talent. Like I said in my post if you want to go after Caldwell for not making the change to Orlovsky sooner that is more than fair game. It's not fair game though to blast Caldwell because Curtis Painter doesn't have enough talent to be in the NFL and sure as heck is nothing close to what they had in Peyton Manning and just ignore the Peyton Manning injury like that they should just easily over come that. That's being a bit unrealistic.

As for the rest of your rant plunty of coaches have been great at one level rather it be college or the pros and been really bad at the other. That's why you have to be careful blasting an NFL coach for what he did in college or the other way around. Some coaches are just made for one over the other. Frankly given how he handles himself I think Caldwell is better suited for an NFL job than a college job. Also not every college job is equal, the Wake Forest job is a very hard job, it's not like he took over at Ohio State and ran them into the ground. With that said I will keep saying what I have always said about Caldwell, he's at best an average coach.

I have never said it's not fair to rip on Caldwell. I am just saying stick to what's fair to rip him for and there is plunty out there without trying to pile on just to pile on like a lot of people seem to be doing.

Who decides who the starting QB is? I always thought it was the HC decision..... Did Caldwell not name Painter the starter for the Colts this season? As we all know painter is horrible and has no talent, shouldn't he have recognizred that not only as a head coach but a FORMER QB coach? Or was he just listening to Reggie Wayne because he has no idea what he's doing.....

[Bonnie]

Hey guys,

I think this debate is OVER. Caldwell should be fired. Maybe he can get a job at snow cone stand or somewhere else. Do you guys like snow cones? One time I had a grape snow cone and it spilled on my pants and I had a date that night and there was purple mess all over my Levi Stratus's. Do anyone else have a similar story to this? I think we should have a topic change now.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Most of these "close" games we got worse as the game went on, the KC game in particular. The team didn't respond. 6 times we've turned the ball over on our first possession! Do you realize how horrific that one stat is? I don't know what you saw, but I saw a bunch of guys with their chins in their chests.

I explained this already.

Because there isn't much to watch on the field this year, and because we all miss Peyton so much, many of us have been watching him more then the guys with uniforms on. His presence has escalated as the season progressed. Going from absent, to the booth upstairs, to the sideline where he seemed somewhat detached, to what we've seen over the last few weeks.....him interacting with the players and emoting up and down the sidelines.

I don't think the players respect Caldwell, I know they respect Peyton. I believe any motivation being handed down is not coming form the empty pockets of Coach Caldwell.

I wonder if the fact that Peyton is throwing now the players want to make sure we don't land Luck. And I totally agree with you that the players don't respect JC and the total sideline demeanor has changed since Manning has been front and center and throwing, that fact can't be argued.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Hey guys,

I think this debate is OVER. Caldwell should be fired. Maybe he can get a job at snow cone stand or somewhere else. Do you guys like snow cones? One time I had a grape snow cone and it spilled on my pants and I had a date that night and there was purple mess all over my Levi Stratus's. Do anyone else have a similar story to this? I think we should have a topic change now.

It is a good thing Jim Caldwell was not your date. Heaven only knows what kind of look he would have given you when he saw that stain, wait I know a blank stare and you would ask what should I do, blank stare, you reply cmon Jim cold water or hot?blank stare......o well you get my point.

[Bonnie]

I could not agree more! PS: your post made me laugh!

[jskinnz]

Most of these "close" games we got worse as the game went on, the KC game in particular. The team didn't respond. 6 times we've turned the ball over on our first possession! Do you realize how horrific that one stat is? I don't know what you saw, but I saw a bunch of guys with their chins in their chests.

I explained this already.

Because there isn't much to watch on the field this year, and because we all miss Peyton so much, many of us have been watching him more then the guys with uniforms on. His presence has escalated as the season progressed. Going from absent, to the booth upstairs, to the sideline where he seemed somewhat detached, to what we've seen over the last few weeks.....him interacting with the players and emoting up and down the sidelines.

I don't think the players respect Caldwell, I know they respect Peyton. I believe any motivation being handed down is not coming form the empty pockets of Coach Caldwell.

I call nonsense on pretty much all of those rationalizations. So they got worse as the game went on is the evidence that players quit? 1) I simply don't accept that as true and 2) the facts don't support that opinion. They definitely did not get worse against Pittsburgh, Cincy, Carolina and the Pats.

Chins on chests does not mean they quit. It means they were down following that particular play.

I think you give Manning waaaaay too much credit for his "presence." You talk like he is Christ in khakis and a headset.

[ruksak]

I call nonsense on pretty much all of those rationalizations. So they got worse as the game went on is the evidence that players quit? 1) I simply don't accept that as true and 2) the facts don't support that opinion. They definitely did not get worse against Pittsburgh, Cincy, Carolina and the Pats.

Chins on chests does not mean they quit. It means they were down following that particular play.

I think you give Manning waaaaay too much credit for his "presence." You talk like he is Christ in khakis and a headset.

You're adding way too much to my posts. I think our players had jack and @#%* for a leader this year, and apparently jack left town.

I don't need "evidence" as I 'm not trying to prove a case. I'm saying this team went straight into the toilet and couldn't compete with teams that we've owned for the better part of a decade. There was no semblance of leadership either perceived or real, and as soon as we see Manning really displaying a presence, the team responded. Maybe the two are related, maybe not, I dunno.

[Andy]

What's your point about Coyer being useless have to do with anything? You said at first he went to Caldwell and asked for changes in week 15, I was just pointing out to you that he was fired by then so something about what you said was a mistake. Trust me the only reason I didn't like the idea of firing a coach in the middle of a season was that I didn't think it had much upside that had nothing to do with me wanting Coyer to keep his job. I've been calling for his head at the end of the year most of the season. Caldwell took over a Tony Dungy team and didn't change anything except for a new DC and a new Special Teams coach and since then has also pretty much over hauled the whole coaching staff. So I would say he did make changes. Were they all good changes? No they weren't but to sit here and say he didn't make changes is false. If you want to sit here and rip him for making bad changes that's a different story. Again, there is plunty to attack Caldwell for use that rather than trying to make up more stuff to attack him for. Also why was Caldwell hired? Because he wasn't going to come in here and make giant swooping changes. The Colts wanted a guy that was going to keep what Dungy was doing going. So to blast him for doing exactly what the Colts hired him for shows that you are ignoring what he was hired for and just going on an I hate Jim Caldwell rant. Again the Colts didn't want a coach like Jeff Fisher to come in and make changes. Also if Caldwell did nothing that year how come that team went 14-2 and probably could have gone 16-0 and got a Super Bowl when Dungy's team the year before finished 12-4 and lost in the first round of the playoffs? Most people at the time pointed to the fact that Coyer did bring a change to the defense that has since regressed. So a coaching change made by Caldwell did seem to have some impact on that season. Funny up till this year Caldwell was 26-10 as a head coach and many Colts fans said you couldn't just look at his record to say he was a good coach. Now that his record is closer to .500 those same fans are useing his record to say he's a bad coach. Sorry you can't have it both ways. Also the fact he's missing Peyton Manning the guy everything on the team is built around does matter. Like I said before i am not sure many coaches were going to win games this year when they lost Manning at the last second and had to turn to Painter. To just ignore that like that's any other problem in the world to over come just shows again that you are going on an I hate Jim Caldwell rant. You should at least factor that in. Trust me you can still make a very strong case for Jim Caldwell not being a great coach even if you do factor that in. They are going to have time to plan for Peyton Manning leaving. Having Peyton Manning even tell you at the start of the off-season is much more time to adjust to not having him than finding out the day you made the final roster cut downs this year and that's when they found out or they would have never taken him off of the PUP list. Also when he retires they know he's not coming back and it's time to maybe change the way they do things when he's gone and can make wholesale changes unlike this year where they were trying to make changes to win games but didn't want to completely change the team for one season with the hopes Manning will be back. Also if you notice the last few weeks we have made a rather large change. We are running the ball and beating teams with defense. We aren't counting on the pass nearly as much as we do when Manning is here. Think about how good our ground game is going to be when they have a Peyton Manning back that other teams fear at QB? Even as decent as Orlovsky has been playing people don't fear him and try to stop our run first. With Manning back that is going to change things and I expect to see our ground game explode next year. Also if we get the top pick with Luck and take Luck and he's as good as they say he's going to be we might very well not change the way we do much. We would just tranistion from great QB to another. Like I said before there is nothing wrong with ripping on Caldwell and there is plunty to do it for. I am just saying keep it fair and don't just start pilling stuff on it because it's pretty clear most people around here don't like the guy. Rip him for his poor second half adjustments, funky time managment and not going to Orlovsky sooner and his questionable choices in the coaching department. you can make a pretty strong case on that stuff alone he shouldn't be brought back without having to add in stuff that is at best an opinion.

Ill rebut your points in the order of appearance.

Well the firing showed us the Mike Murphy is a very good candidate for the DC job and I would be happy if he became the DC. He and Caldwell should be fired, and they only got one right thus far.

DId Caldwell make any positive changes? No. Tony Dungy set it up for good seasons with Caldwell as the HC, but he didn't like the good coaching staff. If he is the one that wanted Coyer and Rychlewski, then Caldwell is not very smart. Both did not fit this team at all when they came in. Coyer had a different D and Rychlewski was a college coach. He made some changes, like you said, but they weren't positive and useless. This guy has not changed since he became the HC in 09. Yes, he was hired to not make any major changes, but when you see a team not doing well, you have to do something. You have to take action. Be tough. He had to make changes. You can't just sit there and do nothing when the team is clearly going downhill. That's what a head coach does, he makes positive changes when the team is going downhill. During the little stretch of bad games from Week 11 to 13, he did nothing. He didn't make changes to the O-line, he didn't change the D until the DC begged him. Caldwell is a clueless man. Caldwell can't keep this team the same forever, he needs to evolve, as that's what every team is doing. He's using the same offense and same defense that Dungy used 6 years ago. He's boring.

That team was Dungy's team in 09. That was Caldwell's first year, and Dungy set up everything for Jim. The Coyer addition didn't help at all. Sure, on paper it may look good, but that year the Colts faced the Seahawks, 49ers, Rams, Broncos, and Bills (PM didnt play,but defense did)... all teams that had terrible offenses. That's 5 games where the defense may look good, but in reality the team is just bad. When he went up against good teams, they scored tons of points. The difference between the 08 and 09 team was the PM was on amazing in 09; he won the MVP. Everything was clicking with him. Caldwell just got lucky with Manning. The defense wasn't great, but that didn't matter as Manning was just too good. THE DEFENSE IN 2008 WAS BETTER THAN THE ONE IN 2009. 6th pass defense, 11th total yards, 24th rushing in 2008. 14th pass defense, 18th total yards and 24th rushing in 2009! Coyer didn't help at all. It regressed when he came in. Don't let Larry Coyer's history lead you to believe he was a good coach with the Colts.

First off, I never talk about his head coaching record, because that first year was somewhat of a fluke for Caldwell and he was helped out a lot and the team was set up by Dungy. Don't tell me I say that because I don't. I couldn't care less about his record as a head coach, because I know he's a bad coach for many reasons. That's not one of them. BTW, I thought he was a bad coach during the middle of last year, when the record was good.

I agree with that paragraph about changing because Manning can't last forever. The problem is will Jim Caldwell switch his offensive scheme slowly as the years go on and then be fine when Manning is gone... or ... will he have to make drastic changes to the team just after Manning retires. The better road to go is the slowly change as the years go on. Unfortunately, Caldwell won't do that. Jim has not changed any schemes and the team still revolves around Manning, and last year was the year where the needed him the most and that year they revolved around him the most. That's not good. This team will have several bad years after Manning retires if Jim doesn't want to change. That's what I said in my previous long argument. I just don't think he has the balls to change, after what he saw happen to Coyer. He hasn't shown any signs of changing, and this year should have been a wake up call, but typical Caldwell, he missed that. He's not a leader, he doesn't want to change. He's going to change once Manning leaves, and that's going to be too late. Now, Andrew Luck. You said that's it going to be transitioning from one great QB to another. As much as I love this kid, we don't know if he'll be great, but I think he'll be, and we'll assume he'll be for now. Andrew Luck is not PM, PM's off the field studying and pre-game preparation is unmatchable and never been done before. Andrew Luck may have the skills to be great, but his preparation is no where near Manning. He's great, but he's no Manning.

Those are the reasons why I think he's a bad coach.

[MCurtis32]

Ah, often actually. No more or less than any other coach. Those looking for more "fire" should realize that if your team won't perform without being yelled at or intimidated or encouraged as they are standing on the sidelines, then you already have a serious problem. The vast majority of the coaching is done out of our line of site.

Being that most of the coaching is done out of our site. When nothing is done to adjust or remedy the game situation, then can we assume there is no coaching being done during the game?

[FireJimCaldwell]

He didn't deserve the job to start with.

He hasn't done anything to deserve to retain it.

This team deserves a real NFL Head Coach.

[MCurtis32]

LUVTHESHOE said it best." Fire Caldwell.. PERIOD.

[BmoreColt]

It is funny how well people perform when desperation mode kicks in, and when they are fighting for their jobs! Where was all this to start the season? To me Indy caught a good break getting a brittle Houston team, on their third string QB... I don't think Indy has done anything special, and coaching has been terrible at best! Caldwell needs to go regardless of the outcome Sunday, and the Polians should be right there with him!

[JoKeR]

Maybe we put too much blame on Caldwell but a 13 game losing streak is more than enough to make a decision to fire Caldwell.

If he's just a coach that players like, perhaps he should be a high school coach, coach for small college, or maybe be a counselor of some sort.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

The 2009 team was set up by Tony Dungy. Dungy spent years setting that team up for the years after his retirement. Jim Caldwell took over Tony Dungy's team and didn't change a thing. He just happened to have a phenomenal year from Peyton Manning that season, so that's why they went far. Jim Caldwell didn't bring anything special to the table. His history is bad (look at his Wake Forest record), and he made no impact as an assistant. Tom Moore was the offense coordinator and Clyde helped out. Tom Moore set up that offense.

Everything was in place for Caldwell. If we had a quality coach like a Jeff Fisher like coach, for example, taking over in 2009, he would have done more for this team as people like him bring more to the table than Caldwell.

Larry Coyer was useless. They brought in a guy who had a very different defense in Denver, and they expected him to use the Colts' defense and make it work. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Larry Coyer's dismal presence was due to the FO not giving him the freedom to the what he wants. They contained him. Mike Murphy knows this defense, and has been here for a long time. He's seen what works and doesn't. I only realize this now, but he seemed like the best candidate all along.

If Caldwell wants to be considered a good coach, he's gonna have to win games without his star player. He can't be beating teams who's missing half their roster and playing a 3rd stringer. That's not going to get you anywhere. Every loss isn't his fault, but he is the scapegoat unfortunately. Too bad this guy has no fight in him and can't seem to turn things around. Coaches who realize their on the hot seat try their hardest to try to get off it. He hasn't done anything big that has helped the team. He's not a head coach. He wasn't ready to lead a team, this guy didn't even call the plays when Dungy was the head coach. Plus, he didn't know defense that well and he didn't have a very good D-coordinator that could help him out.

What scares me the most is that this guy is going to be coaching this team in the future. I think he stays. I hope he goes though. How is this guy suppose to change this team after PM's gone. With a healthy PM, he had a tough time making the playoffs. He's gonna have to do drastic changes to this team because going forward, this team can't stay so darn revolved around one freagin player. He needs to start changing things up. This tickes me off the most... I just don't see him doing that. The Polians may give him the liberty of changing a couple of things up, but he won't. This league is evolving every day at every practice, and from what I've seen in the last 5 years from the Colts has not shown me that we're changing much. We still use the same defensive scheme most of the time. We're so pass-heavy, even with Dan Orlovsky as our quarterback, and his play-calling is boring and terrible. It's not unpredictable, which is something great head coaches said that they do (I'll try to find which coach said that, but I think Bill Walsh, Sean Payton and Mike Smith said that). I don't think he was ever ready for this job, and his enthusiasm and personality shows me that he doesn't want to change. He's too scared to change, as if he does a couple of things wrong, he'll get fired, just like Larry Coyer. Larry wanted to blitz, the Polians said no, he did it and BAM! he's gone. Jim Caldwell is too scared to change, and how can the Colts move forward if their coach is too afraid to change?

Alot of what you say is true, but I have some observations.

1 Caldwell like him or not has stayed very calm & dignified in this hole mess & yes the guys are playing hard for him. He does bring a certain class & choice of words the Pollians & Irsay like. No he is no Dungy, but also not some nut case either.

2. I don't like that we didn't change any of our game plans or philosophy during this horrible season when it was necessary until, now. we should have adjusted to our personal or lack of, sooner.

3. We don't know who REALLY CALLS THE SHOTS HERE!! Pollian or Caldwell. I am all for doing things the same way if there is success or continued improvement. Honestly IMO if Pollian told Caldwell to play certain players & keep everything as is, than he is to blame. If not how can you blame Caldwell?

4. This team IS NOT AS BAD AS ITS RECORD. There have been many games this year where if the offense had done ANYTHING we could have won the ball game. This team could easily be a 500 team which would put you on the brink of the playoffs.

5. Painter should have been better prepared. He is as they say 1 play away if something happened to Peyton & we finally got caught with our pants down. Painter does have the skills & size to play QB in the NFL But he is not accurate & does not poses the intangibles you need to play QB in the NFL. The only way to know is for him to play & now we know.

6. I see a lot of bright spots this year other than the record. LOTS of guys got valuable experience playing with all the injuries. This years rookie class looks pretty good. The OL & DL will be better next year as well as the LB's. Donald Brown has come on. still some areas of concern especially CB & RT, but I think the future looks bright & we will have GREAT draft position whether we win this last game or not.

7. The defense has played well for Murphy! Coyer wanted to blitz I never saw it Murphy does blitz on occasion & it seems to work.

8. Our offense is like a Ferrari with no driver, we need that driver badly.

9. I wouldn't say I love Caldwell yes the time out against the Jets was dumb, & I really didn't like the long FG attempt in the Super Bowl with Stover which & I know when he did it would bit us in the butt. I personaly like a more fiery guy, but I think the owner & front office like a calm guy. I would love to have Jeff Fisher here, but I DON"T want growing pains of a new system, if Peyton is back. If we could get a proven guy who doesn't upset the apple cart to much I would be for it, but I feel Caldwell will get a pass & be back next year.

[Curveball]

The NFL recycles HC's all the time. But it's all likely moot as he plays out his contract.

[vitoaf27]

Maybe we put too much blame on Caldwell but a 13 game losing streak is more than enough to make a decision to fire Caldwell.

If he's just a coach that players like, perhaps he should be a high school coach, coach for small college, or maybe be a counselor of some sort.

This made me LOL. Sadly, that may be true.

[Superman]

If he is the one that wanted Coyer and Rychlewski, then Caldwell is not very smart. Both did not fit this team at all when they came in. Coyer had a different D and Rychlewski was a college coach. He made some changes, like you said, but they weren't positive and useless.

That team was Dungy's team in 09. That was Caldwell's first year, and Dungy set up everything for Jim. The Coyer addition didn't help at all. Sure, on paper it may look good, but that year the Colts faced the Seahawks, 49ers, Rams, Broncos, and Bills (PM didnt play,but defense did)... all teams that had terrible offenses. That's 5 games where the defense may look good, but in reality the team is just bad. When he went up against good teams, they scored tons of points.

I'm cherry picking something here that I disagree with. This is not a defense of Caldwell or Coyer, it's just an observation that I think is noteworthy.

In 2007, we played the Pats in the middle of the season. We needed the ball back at the end of the game, and Brady threw a quick completion to convert on third down and put the game away. We played a vanilla coverage, the receiver got a clean release, the pressure never got close... game over. (By the way, this is the exact same thing we did against the Chargers in the playoffs, and we lost that game partly due to our inability to generate a pass rush without Freeney and Mathis.)

Fast forward two years to 2009, against the Pats. We needed the ball back at the end of the game. Coyer brings a blitz on third down, and Brady throws a ball that Jerraud Powers nearly intercepted. The Pats go for it on 4th down. We play tight coverage on the receivers, and we bring another blitz. Brady throws quick, the receiver bobbles the ball, we get a friendly spot, and it's our ball on downs.

I firmly believe that Coyer's playcalling got us the ball back and helped us win the game. And this wasn't the only game in which we used little wrinkles that simply didn't exist with Dungy and Meeks. In that sense, I think Coyer was a great fit for us in 2009.

What he did in the two years since then (starting with the Super Bowl) was indefensible, no pun intended. Just made no sense. We brought a fifth rusher against the Jaguars in the first game last year, and they went max protect and converted a third down for 20 yards down the field. What good is a blitz against max protect? This happened several times last year and the first part of this year. We were warned about this when we hired Coyer, and I didn't get. They said he could get blitz happy, but that's not the problem. Gregg Williams and Rex Ryan can get blitz happy, and you'll occasionally see them get burned for big plays. But Coyer just calls stupid blitzes that make zero sense in bad situations, like the Jaguars blitz. I don't know how he could get it so right against the Pats, and then get it so wrong against a worse team and a worse quarterback a year later.

Anyways, my point is just that I appreciate some of the benefits of bringing Coyer in, and he did contribute to wins while he was here. But he definitely needed to go.

[GoColts8818]

Who decides who the starting QB is? I always thought it was the HC decision..... Did Caldwell not name Painter the starter for the Colts this season? As we all know painter is horrible and has no talent, shouldn't he have recognizred that not only as a head coach but a FORMER QB coach? Or was he just listening to Reggie Wayne because he has no idea what he's doing.....

DId I also not say it's fair to rip Caldwell for not going to Orlovsky sooner?

[Coltssouth]

Good post. +1 from me.

[Happy2BeHere]

The team wanted the win...not the coach..the team played their hearts out...not the coach.

[SilentHill]

DId I also not say it's fair to rip Caldwell for not going to Orlovsky sooner?

You did, however him having experience coaching QB's and being the head coach and all don't you think he should have realized Painter had no talent before the season began? I mean cmon, any person down with Reality knew Orv was better than Painter before the season even began.

[braveheartcolt]

If we knew our 2nd string QB wasn't good enough to start (which was evident when we panic bought Collins), he shouldn't have been on the roster. That must be on Caldwell, especially with his background. He's out of his depth and should resign right after the Jax game.

[warsawcoltsfan]

It is time for Caldwell to go. When you lose players you have to make adjustments and he failed to do that. I want a new coach next season, but I dont think Irsay will fire him

[Hal]

In no particular order:

-Going 0-13 in any year, by any coach in any organization is unacceptable let alone an organization with a culture of winning like the Colts. 14-0 was impressive but did anyone think it was Caldwell's expertise and not Dungy's residue and Peyton's genius that did that?

-His early success was driven by the machine built by the Polians and Tony Dungy. As much heat as there is under the Polians right now, they did deliver a Super Bowl with Dungy at the reins and Caldwell's success was largely based on that. For all the Gruden haters out there who are Pro-Caldwell: How can you support a guy who failed to deliver a Super Bowl taking over a team that Dungy built and hate a guy who delivered a Super Bowl taking over a team that Dungy built? Who was Caldwell's Super Bowl quarterback? Who was Gruden's?

-When you hear about coaches and playoffs, you want to hear about how they lose sleep game planning for the next game or how they're watching film for hours on end trying to figure out the other team. Do we ever hear any of this about anyone on the Colts' staff?

-The players don't trust Caldwell. As professional as the Colts are, in relation to how they handle themselves in the media and on the field, there are still slips about being "out-coached". Think Super Bowl, think early this season, think all of Caldwell's career. You won't hear it too much from the Colts but the fact that you do is troubling.

-For all the hate on how poor our roster is, our team is capable of winning more than 3 games without Peyton. "Built for the lead" may be true but it's not like teams who are "built to stop the run" all of a sudden fall apart when the other team stops running.

[21isSuperman]

In no particular order:

-Going 0-13 in any year, by any coach in any organization is unacceptable let alone an organization with a culture of winning like the Colts. 14-0 was impressive but did anyone think it was Caldwell's expertise and not Dungy's residue and Peyton's genius that did that?

It's got to go both ways here. If you blame Caldwell for 0-13, then you have to give him some credit for 14-0. If you don't want to give him any credit for 14-0, you can't say 0-13 is all his fault.

-His early success was driven by the machine built by the Polians and Tony Dungy. As much heat as there is under the Polians right now, they did deliver a Super Bowl with Dungy at the reins and Caldwell's success was largely based on that. For all the Gruden haters out there who are Pro-Caldwell: How can you support a guy who failed to deliver a Super Bowl taking over a team that Dungy built and hate a guy who delivered a Super Bowl taking over a team that Dungy built? Who was Caldwell's Super Bowl quarterback? Who was Gruden's?

Who did Gruden have playing for him on defense, who did the Colts have? It's also hard to blame Caldwell for things like Garcon's drop or the defense not tackling Pierre Thomas very well.

-When you hear about coaches and playoffs, you want to hear about how they lose sleep game planning for the next game or how they're watching film for hours on end trying to figure out the other team. Do we ever hear any of this about anyone on the Colts' staff?

Just because it isn't reported, doesn't mean it isn't happening. We about a lot of things, doesn't mean they aren't going on. I've never heard of any report that said Jeff Saturday was seen bench pressing today. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can almost guarantee you all of the Colts coaching staff is doing that stuff.

-The players don't trust Caldwell. As professional as the Colts are, in relation to how they handle themselves in the media and on the field, there are still slips about being "out-coached". Think Super Bowl, think early this season, think all of Caldwell's career. You won't hear it too much from the Colts but the fact that you do is troubling.

I think they do. Every report I've seen about the players being asked about Caldwell said that they wish Caldwell returns and doesn't lose his job. Peyton also invited Caldwell to his kids' baptizing, I believe. So that shows they have a strong relationship. If players don't want the coach there, they aren't afraid to say it. Just look at how players reacted to Saban and Petrino.

-For all the hate on how poor our roster is, our team is capable of winning more than 3 games without Peyton. "Built for the lead" may be true but it's not like teams who are "built to stop the run" all of a sudden fall apart when the other team stops running.

Now, after all of that has been said...I still think Caldwell needs to go. My reasoning is that there are better coaches available. If you have a Pinto but can afford to buy a Ferrari, why wouldn't you go out and get the Ferrari? Especially when the Pinto has failed to get you to your destination multiple times this year

[Superman]

I disagree with the points made, but I do believe we can do better than Jim Caldwell, and I hope we do.

[Happy2BeHere]

Not a good analogy really...but I hope for Jeff fisher..he can win a Super Bowl with indy

[jskinnz]

I disagree with the points made, but I do believe we can do better than Jim Caldwell, and I hope we do.

Completely agree.

Not alot of deep thought on why Caldwell should be fired and in fact, there are things that are just simply wrong.

But Indy can do better.

[Superman]

Completely agree.

Not alot of deep thought on why Caldwell should be fired and in fact, there are things that are just simply wrong.

But Indy can do better.

The first point was strong enough. 0-13 is unacceptable, any way you slice it. But it just went waaaaaay downhill from there.

I posted my short list of candidates a few weeks ago. I just hope we're not committed to "continuity" like Jim Irsay insinuated last week. I'd like to see us be committed to getting better.

[jskinnz]

The first point was strong enough. 0-13 is unacceptable, any way you slice it. But it just went waaaaaay downhill from there.

I posted my short list of candidates a few weeks ago. I just hope we're not committed to "continuity" like Jim Irsay insinuated last week. I'd like to see us be committed to getting better.

I missed your list. Who was on it?

[GoColts8818]

You did, however him having experience coaching QB's and being the head coach and all don't you think he should have realized Painter had no talent before the season began? I mean cmon, any person down with Reality knew Orv was better than Painter before the season even began.

Again, like I said if people want to rip him for that it is more than fair to rip him for that. What isn't fair to rip him for is acting like there was no drop off from Peyton Manning to Curtis Painter like some people try to pretend like and thus not having Manning isn't part of the reason this team is struggling this year. It's pretty clear this team's largest issue (note largest issue does not mean only issue) has been that they don't have enough talent at the QB spot. It's not Jim Caldwell's fault Peyton Manning got hurt and Curtis Painter doesn't have NFL talent. With that said it is more than fair to point out Caldwell made poor choices in cutting Orlovsky and not going to him sooner once he was brought back.

Like I've said from the start there is nothing wrong with ripping Caldwell for things that are fair, like a poor choice on who they went with at the QB spot. The only thing that I am pointing out is the over the top stuff is just pilling on that people are doing because they don't like Caldwell. There is more than enough stuff to throw out there that Caldwell can be held responable for to make a very strong case he should be let go without having to add the over the top stuff that people are doing.