Seattle Saying No Way On R Wilson/R Wilson Contract (Merge)

[dw49]

I wouldn't disagree with that, necessarily. My point initially goes right along with that, actually. He's a tough one to judge, because he doesn't run the prototypical drop back offense, but I think it's a mistake to label him as a read option / running QB. Whatever limitations are present in his game, the scheme and his playmaking ability make up for them in most cases. He's the only QB in NFL history -- including great pocket guys and great scrambling guys, and guys who could do both (like Steve Young) -- to throw for 300 yards and rush for 100 yards in the same game. 

 

He has a good grasp of pro concepts, considering his pocket limitations and height, but he also capitalizes on his ability to run, and is very good at making throws on the run. He's always going to be short for a QB, but he mostly makes up for it.

 

I'm also operating under the assumption that he's going to get better. If he's stalled out, or worse, regresses, then everyone's in trouble.

 

 

No .. for sure he was not a read option QB . Kaepernick and the early version of RG3 are examples of that IMO. He certainly isn't what you would normally label as a "running QB" either as those guys are now dinosaurs in today's NFL. I think the only point we might disagree on is if he can continue to be as effective as he is without improving his play inside the pocket. As you said , it's unlikely he has a growth spurt , so this will be the issue. Can he see the field being 5'11" ?  Maybe... Bress did it ( or learned it ?)  and he's only an inch or inch and a half taller

[12dalegend]

no it wasn't

instead of giving the ball to the surething which is beastmode they went with Wilson? sorry to say seattle fans and other fans  disagree with you 

[jvan1973]

instead of giving the ball to the surething which is beastmode they went with Wilson? sorry to say seattle fans and other fans disagree with you

a bad call, perhaps. WORST CALL IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT? No

[12dalegend]

a bad call, perhaps. WORST CALL IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT? No

You do know that was the SUPERBOWL if that aint the worst please enlighten me

[jvan1973]

You do know that was the SUPERBOWL if that aint the worst please enlighten me

Marty Morengweg won the toss going into overtime. He elected to kick the ball. That was the worst decision I have ever seen

[12dalegend]

no it wasn't

How about worst call ever by a coach or worst call ever by a coach in the Superbowl

[amfootball]

Marty Morengweg won the toss going into overtime. He elected to kick the ball. That was the worst decision I have ever seen

Belichick did the same thing vs Denver/Manning two years ago and the Pats won the game.

[jvan1973]

Belichick did the same thing vs Denver/Manning two years ago and the Pats won the game.

He also went for it on 4th and 2 deep in Indy territory. How did that work out?

Just because it worked against the broncos doesn't mean it was a good call.

[jvan1973]

How about worst call ever by a coach or worst call ever by a coach in the Superbowl

I agree, worst call in superbowl history

[amfootball]

He also went for it on 4th and 2 deep in Indy territory. How did that work out?

Just because it worked against the broncos doesn't mean it was a good call.

Huh? You said worse play call. Hardly.

 

When looking at a play call the situation comes into play as well as the flow of the game. In the SB, Lynch had been running rough shod over the Pats all game (102 yards on 24 carries and a TD). On first down he almost scored from the 5. At that point in the game Wilson was 12 for 21 with one of those 12 catches being a circus/lucky catch by Kearse to get them down to the 5. They were at the one. They also had the best back in the league. THAT call to pass in THAT situation was the worst call I have ever seen and to boot it was in the super bowl. You will have to do better than a coach deciding to kick off vs receive in OT to top the absurdity of that call in that situation.

[jvan1973]

Huh? You said worse play call. Hardly.

When looking at a play call the situation comes into play as well as the flow of the game. In the SB, Lynch had been running rough shod over the Pats all game (102 yards on 24 carries and a TD). On first down he almost scored from the 5. At that point in the game Wilson was 12 for 21 with one of those 12 catches being a circus/lucky catch by Kearse to get them down to the 5. They were at the one. They also had the best back in the league. THAT call to pass in THAT situation was the worst call I have ever seen and to boot it was in the super bowl. You will have to do better than a coach deciding to kick off vs receive in OT to top the absurdity of that call in that situation.

If you think that was the worst call in NFL history, you haven't been watching the NFL very long. Joe Gibbs once called a timeout to freeze a kicker. He then called another timeout to do it again. Except that is a penalty. It moved the kick from a 50 yarder to 45.

The game has been around a long time. Calling a short pass across three middle on second down is hardly the worst call ever made. Take into account if it had been a regular season game, PI would have been called on Butler

[amfootball]

If you think that was the worst call in NFL history, you haven't been watching the NFL very long. Joe Gibbs once called a timeout to freeze a kicker. He then called another timeout to do it again. Except that is a penalty. It moved the kick from a 50 yarder to 45.

The game has been around a long time. Calling a short pass across three middle on second down is hardly the worst call ever made. Take into account if it had been a regular season game, PI would have been called on Butler

Bad coaching, sure. But play call? I have a tough time putting anything ahead of it. As I said the situation and flow of the game easily makes it one of the worst calls ever. I generally don't like to say anything is the best or worst ever as I have not watched every single football game ever played. That being said, with what was on the line, a championship, and again the situation, there is nothing I have seen that would top it.

[BOTT]

How about worst call ever by a coach or worst call ever by a coach in the Superbowl

Kicking off to Devin Hester ranks up there lol

[12dalegend]

Kicking off to Devin Hester ranks up there lol

but we won so no

[BOTT]

but we won so no

So if you win it neglects it from being a bad call? We can laugh now, but that was a horrible decision.

[12dalegend]

So if you win it neglects it from being a bad call? We can laugh now, but that was a horrible decision.

Seattle  was 1 rush from VICTORY in the BIGGEST GAME of the YEAR and TOTALLY BLEW IT! What other call is worse than that? While kicking to Hester was bad itʻs not the WORST CALL in the HISTORY of the NFL, no disrespect...Aloha oi 

[Gavin]

Way to soon....Wilson will get his money before its all said and done

[braveheartcolt]

Pulling the starters. Need I say more.

[BOTT]

Seattle was 1 rush from VICTORY in the BIGGEST GAME of the YEAR and TOTALLY BLEW IT! What other call is worse than that? While kicking to Hester was bad itʻs not the WORST CALL in the HISTORY of the NFL, no disrespect...Aloha oi

I KNOW it's not, that's WHY I didn't say THAT.

[wig]

It's obscene to me for anyone to think they're worth that kind of money. Smh

Yet you spend your free time online talking about them. Smh

[Gramz]

Yet you spend your free time online talking about them. Smh

wth... bud?     I don't spend all my free time here talking about them, but it  is a Forum for discussion.  

[wig]

wth... bud? I don't spend all my free time here talking about them, but it is a Forum for discussion.

The point I poorly tried to make is, their value is illustrated by the fact that we all spend a portion of our leisure time discussing them.

[Gramz]

The point I poorly tried to make is, their value is illustrated by the fact that we all spend a portion of our leisure time discussing them.

I suppose you're correct. All's good. And for the record, it's always been my stance that they all make way too much $$, this is not just directed at Russell.

[amfootball]

I suppose you're correct. All's good. And for the record, it's always been my stance that they all make way too much $$, this is not just directed at Russell.

If you compare what the league and owners make, the players are woefully underpaid. Not to mention football does not have guaranteed contracts either so if Russell does play this season on his current deal and gets hurt than he misses out on his pay day perhaps for good. It is a big risk football players take by not trying to maximize every penny they can when they can. Average career is just 3 years.

[Gramz]

If you compare what the league and owners make, the players are woefully underpaid. Not to mention football does not have guaranteed contracts either so if Russell does play this season on his current deal and gets hurt than he misses out on his pay day perhaps for good. It is a big risk football players take by not trying to maximize every penny they can when they can. Average career is just 3 years.

Woefully underpaid?

You know who is woefully underpaid? Those in the military, and firefighters, first responders, etc. All of whom could, and sometimes do, pay the ultimate price of losing their lives when they sign up to serve and protect others.

I am not questioning the reasoning behind NFL players securing their financial future, just the obscene amounts of $$. My opinion.

[amfootball]

Woefully underpaid?

You know who is woefully underpaid? Those in the military, and firefighters, first responders, etc. All of whom could, and sometimes do, pay the ultimate price of losing their lives when they sign up to serve and protect others.

I am not questioning the reasoning behind NFL players securing their financial future, just the obscene amounts of $$. My opinion.

I didn't realize you were going down this path with your post. I think there are many in our society that are not paid what they are worth especially teachers BUT we are talking entertainment here where the consumer is the one setting the stakes and for which all of us here on this forum are contributors every time we watch football, go to a game, buy football memorabilia, etc. As I said, if you look at what the owners and league make which is directly from consumers than the players are woefully underpaid. If you feel that this unjust dichotomy is more reflective of our society and our values overall that would also be true.

[Gramz]

I didn't realize you were going down this path with your post. I think there are many in our society that are not paid what they are worth especially teachers BUT we are talking entertainment here where the consumer is the one setting the stakes and for which all of us here on this forum are contributors every time we watch football, go to a game, buy football memorabilia, etc. As I said, if you look at what the owners and league make which is directly from consumers than the players are woefully underpaid. If you feel that this unjust dichotomy is more reflective of our society and our values overall that would also be true.

I wasn't going down any "path" with my original comment. You took it down that path.

My original comment was they all make too much.

It is what it is.

[amfootball]

I wasn't going down any "path" with my original comment. You took it down that path.

My original comment was they all make too much.

It is what it is.

By path, I meant the comparison with other professions outside of sports entertaiment. I didn't realize that is what you were referring to when you said that you felt they made too much.

[Gramz]

By path, I meant the comparison with other professions outside of sports entertaiment. I didn't realize that is what you were referring to when you said that you felt they made too much.

It wasn't, originally. I was only basing my comment on NFL saleries in general. The other Only came into the discussion when You said, NFL players were woefully underpaid. That got me to thinking about who I thought was really woefully underpaid.

Let it go......

[amfootball]

It wasn't, originally. I was only basing my comment on NFL saleries in general. The other Only came into the discussion when You said, NFL players were woefully underpaid. That got me to thinking about who I thought was really woefully underpaid.

Let it go......

Gotcha. My comment about them being underpaid was not based on other professions but just the gobs of money that the league and owners make compared to the salaries so in that respect they are underpaid given they are the ones making all the money for the league and only getting a fraction back that is not even guaranteed. But for sure, when looking at other professions, there are others that should be getting paid a lot more than they do.

[amfootball]

It would seem a deal will not get done with Wilson as he has asked to play with an insurance policy. I did not even know something like this existed. Can anyone shed any light on what this entails and how it affects the cap if at all?  http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13091733/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-play-insurance-policy

[amfootball]

This is one of the better articles I have read on why Seattle should pay Wilson, http://www.denverpost.com/renck/ci_28346691/russell-wilson-deserves-franchise-qb-money-role-seahawks

 

A couple of snippets:

 

Wilson is entering the final season of a four-year $2.99-million rookie deal, making $1.54 million this season. Having spent a chunk of time around the Seahawks the past two years, a confluence of factors contribute to their success. None is bigger than Wilson. His clearance-rack third-round price created unprecedented financial flexibility for a Super Bowl champion.

 

They took care of the Legion of Boom, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor with coin left over for defensive tackle Michael Bennett. No receiver makes big money. Marshawn Lynch features the offense side's biggest guarantee at $12 million. 

 

Wilson benefits tremendously from Lynch. No one can argue that. But no player helps the Seahawks more than Wilson. Coach Pete Carroll's record provides proof. He was fired in his first two NFL stops with the Jets, then the Patriots. He revived Seattle. Remember what his record was in his first two seasons with Seahawks? Try 14-16. As an NFL coach, he owned a 47-49 record, including 2-3 in the postseason, entering Wilson's rookie season. Since then, Carroll is 36-12 with a Super Bowl title, back-to-back NFC championhips and a 6-2 postseason mark.

 

 

[BOTT]

This is one of the better articles I have read on why Seattle should pay Wilson, http://www.denverpost.com/renck/ci_28346691/russell-wilson-deserves-franchise-qb-money-role-seahawks

 

A couple of snippets:

 

Wilson is entering the final season of a four-year $2.99-million rookie deal, making $1.54 million this season. Having spent a chunk of time around the Seahawks the past two years, a confluence of factors contribute to their success. None is bigger than Wilson. His clearance-rack third-round price created unprecedented financial flexibility for a Super Bowl champion.

 

They took care of the Legion of Boom, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor with coin left over for defensive tackle Michael Bennett. No receiver makes big money. Marshawn Lynch features the offense side's biggest guarantee at $12 million. 

 

Wilson benefits tremendously from Lynch. No one can argue that. But no player helps the Seahawks more than Wilson. Coach Pete Carroll's record provides proof. He was fired in his first two NFL stops with the Jets, then the Patriots. He revived Seattle. Remember what his record was in his first two seasons with Seahawks? Try 14-16. As an NFL coach, he owned a 47-49 record, including 2-3 in the postseason, entering Wilson's rookie season. Since then, Carroll is 36-12 with a Super Bowl title, back-to-back NFC championhips and a 6-2 postseason mark.

having a lot of young players come of age and adding veteran pass rushers had as much to do with that turn around as Wilson. There is a reason they didn't hesitate to lock up that secondary.

[amfootball]

having a lot of young players come of age and adding veteran pass rushers had as much to do with that turn around as Wilson. There is a reason they didn't hesitate to lock up that secondary.

I agree but as we know this is a QB driven league and Wilson believes he was as instrumental as that secondary. At least his agent is lobbying that he is.

[Superman]

It would seem a deal will not get done with Wilson as he has asked to play with an insurance policy. I did not even know something like this existed. Can anyone shed any light on what this entails and how it affects the cap if at all?  http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13091733/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-play-insurance-policy

 

An insurance policy has nothing to do with the cap or the CBA, and has no effect on the cap. A player can purchase a policy that guarantees him a payout if he gets injured at some point. He doesn't have to get permission to play with an insurance policy, either; he just has to buy a policy. Lots of players do this in college or before the draft -- Jameis Winston, Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Marqise Lee, etc. 

 

And it's just that -- insurance. It doesn't mean he won't get a new deal before the season starts. 

[amfootball]

An insurance policy has nothing to do with the cap or the CBA, and has no effect on the cap. A player can purchase a policy that guarantees him a payout if he gets injured at some point. He doesn't have to get permission to play with an insurance policy, either; he just has to buy a policy. Lots of players do this in college or before the draft -- Jameis Winston, Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Marqise Lee, etc. 

 

And it's just that -- insurance. It doesn't mean he won't get a new deal before the season starts. 

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it. I had never heard of it before and wondered how it worked.

[dw49]

An insurance policy has nothing to do with the cap or the CBA, and has no effect on the cap. A player can purchase a policy that guarantees him a payout if he gets injured at some point. He doesn't have to get permission to play with an insurance policy, either; he just has to buy a policy. Lots of players do this in college or before the draft -- Jameis Winston, Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Marqise Lee, etc. 

 

And it's just that -- insurance. It doesn't mean he won't get a new deal before the season starts. 

 

 

Jason Cole has a tweet(an hour or so ago) stating that Wilson is looking to be the highest paid player in the game. But seems like a lot of really bad info is coming from the talking noggins lately...

[amfootball]

Jason Cole has a tweet(an hour or so ago) stating that Wilson is looking to be the highest paid player in the game. But seems like a lot of really bad info is coming from the talking noggins lately...

Yeah, I saw that too. But Wilson has been yacking a lot lately too saying he is fine with moving on if he as too. This whole story is bizarre. But it would make sense for the Seattle FO to be balking if he is indeed seeking to be the highest paid.

[PeterBowman]

Yeah, I saw that too. But Wilson has been yacking a lot lately too saying he is fine with moving on if he as too. This whole story is bizarre. But it would make sense for the Seattle FO to be balking if he is indeed seeking to be the highest paid.

If Wilson does move on, I guess we'd find out if he's as good as some think or if he's more of a product of being on an elite team (as some think).

[amfootball]

If Wilson does move on, I guess we'd find out if he's as good as some think or if he's more of a product of being on an elite team (as some think).

Yeah, I think Wilson has the goods for sure but Seattle has been a great fit for him with the way they have tailored that team. I am not sure why he would think he should be the highest paid player but then again the report could be false too ... just a very weird situation there.