Roger Goodell will hear Tom Brady's appeal.

[Gramz]

Unless, at the appeal, new information comes to light.

Goodell has lost the PR battle already, no win for him. His only way to handle the appeal fair and firm  Start fresh, Dot the i's and cross the t's.  Get the ducks in a row and see if the NE Patriots are willing to open up on some of the documentation they withheld.

I don't see where he's lost the PR battle, not on this matter.   Everything I've read, seen, heard, is that 76% of the public, including avid fans, were pleased with the punishment and investigation.   To me.... he's winning that PR battle.

[Hoosier]

I don't see where he's lost the PR battle, not on this matter.   Everything I've read, seen, heard, is that 76% of the public, including avid fans, were pleased with the punishment and investigation.   To me.... he's winning that PR battle.

I'd even go a step farther to say that the Patriots almost handed him the PR battle with that absurd release yesterday.

[amfootball]

Unless, at the appeal, new information comes to light.

Goodell has lost the PR battle already, no win for him. His only way to handle the appeal fair and firm  Start fresh, Dot the i's and cross the t's.  Get the ducks in a row and see if the NE Patriots are willing to open up on some of the documentation they withheld.

Yes, this has been another disaster for Goodell. And appointing himself leaves himself in a no win situation in the court of public opinion as if he reduces the suspension even one game it means he believes the report he commissioned is bunk. If he upholds it than it looks like he was trying to block Brady and then it goes to court anyways to an independent judge. At first, I thought it was a good idea for to appoint himself, but as I have thought about it, it was probably the worst decision he could have made. Assign someone independent and let them uphold the Wells report and come out looking good.

[Gramz]

I'd even go a step farther to say that the Patriots almost handed him the PR battle with that absurd release yesterday.

Well there is that.     it was better than any sit-com.

[18Manning]

Been saying for days I think his first game back will be against the Colts. It is beyond fitting too.

 

If I am wrong, I will say I am wrong later. Over all they should just take it in NE since 4 games is getting off easy. Should be a 6 to 8 game suspension. They have 4 games without Brady and hell they can even see how Jimmy G looks and if he is the future.

 

And so far seeing Brady, he has shown zero signs of admitting ANY guilt. If it's all or nothing with the suspension it better be ALL. If they took it away I think many (and not just Colts fans) will be livid.

 

This is what I thought the suspension should have been with anticipation of a reduction.

[jvan1973]

Yes, this has been another disaster for Goodell. And appointing himself leaves himself in a no win situation in the court of public opinion as if he reduces the suspension even one game it means he believes the report he commissioned is bunk. If he upholds it than it looks like he was trying to block Brady and then it goes to court anyways to an independent judge. At first, I thought it was a good idea for to appoint himself, but as I have thought about it, it was probably the worst decision he could have made. Assign someone independent and let them uphold the Wells report and come out looking good.

the PR disaster is the existence of the new deflater diet. gimme a break

[SteelCityColt]

Yes, this has been another disaster for Goodell. And appointing himself leaves himself in a no win situation in the court of public opinion as if he reduces the suspension even one game it means he believes the report he commissioned is bunk. If he upholds it than it looks like he was trying to block Brady and then it goes to court anyways to an independent judge. At first, I thought it was a good idea for to appoint himself, but as I have thought about it, it was probably the worst decision he could have made. Assign someone independent and let them uphold the Wells report and come out looking good.

 

Well actually no it doesn't he, he could still support the report but consider the punishment handed out by Vincent to be excessive. 

 

He didn't really have much choice but to appoint himself after the Kraft circus of the last few days. Please.. let this go to court,... 

[amfootball]

Well actually no it doesn't he, he could still support the report but consider the punishment handed out by Vincent to be excessive. 

 

He didn't really have much choice but to appoint himself after the Kraft circus of the last few days. Please.. let this go to court,... 

Yes, the Troy Vincent angle is plausible in this. He can reduce and say Vincent over punished but it still undermines the report and will roast him the court of public opinion. I can't believe Vincent will be too happy either about being the fall guy. But it is obvious that Goodell distanced himself form the punishment for a reason ...

[pgt_rob]

AM, you even said it yourself that Tom is guilty. Why do you think he shouldn't have any punishment even though you said he is guilty. That's not how things work.

[amfootball]

AM, you even said it yourself that Tom is guilty. Why do you think he shouldn't have any punishment even though you said he is guilty. That's not how things work.

After reading the Pats side, I don't believe Tom is guilty at all nor do I believe there was any tampering ...as I have been saying all along the league screwed this up when they did not have Walt write down the pregame psi and the business of the two gauges and different readings and the natural gas law ... I am wondering how on earth Wells came to any conclusion at all that they may have been tampering just based on the balls and the bang up job the league did on overseeing the process ...

[Gramz]

[jvan1973]

After reading the Pats side, I don't believe Tom is guilty at all nor do I believe there was any tampering ...as I have been saying all along the league screwed this up when they did not have Walt write down the pregame psi and the business of the two gauges and different readings and the natural gas law ... I am wondering how on earth Wells came to any conclusion at all that they may have been tampering just based on the balls and the bang up job the league did on overseeing the process ...

Soooooo, there was no tampering yet, both equipment guys were suspended. ?

[pgt_rob]

After reading the Pats side, I don't believe Tom is guilty at all nor do I believe there was any tampering ...as I have been saying all along the league screwed this up when they did not have Walt write down the pregame psi and the business of the two gauges and different readings and the natural gas law ... I am wondering how on earth Wells came to any conclusion at all that they may have been tampering just based on the balls and the bang up job the league did on overseeing the process ...

 

What does it matter that nobody wrote down the pregame psi? It is suppose to be within legal pressure either way you cut it. The Colts footballs were all within legal pressure, wouldn't the natural gas law screw those up too? lol

[amfootball]

Soooooo, there was no tampering yet, both equipment guys were suspended. ?

NFL requested Pats to suspend the ball boys ... and both cannot be reinstated without league's approval.

[jvan1973]

NFL requested Pats to suspend the ball boys ... and both cannot be reinstated without league's approval.

requested, meaning they didn't have to

[amfootball]

What does it matter that nobody wrote down the pregame psi? It is suppose to be within legal pressure either way you cut it. The Colts footballs were all within legal pressure, wouldn't the natural gas law screw those up too? lol

When you are trying to make a scientific case for ball tampering, you have to have that data otherwise it is hearsay and as we saw from the halftime readings, there was a big difference between the two gauges. So if Walt supposedly can't remember which gauge he used then it is impossible to determine the air pressure of any of the balls at halftime ...

[amfootball]

requested, meaning they didn't have to

The Pats were complying with the NFL wishes given the investigation which they thought was independent. It is not like they suspended these guys on their own. Big difference.

[OffensivelyPC]

I don't see where he's lost the PR battle, not on this matter.   Everything I've read, seen, heard, is that 76% of the public, including avid fans, were pleased with the punishment and investigation.   To me.... he's winning that PR battle.

Goodell is at a disadvantage in PR, but it has nothign to do with this case.  Most people already don't like Goodell, right or wrong.  The NFLPA has gone out of its way to make sure of that over the past couple years.  I think a lot of what Goodell is doing by overseeing the appeal is giving Brady a chance to get his side of the story and see what the two ball boys have to say - namely about Brady's phone and why McNally called himself the Deflator.  All of this will be in confidentiality, so Goodell is basically saying, "Look, this doesn't need to go to court.  Not saying we're not prepared to do that if you guys take it that far.  But we can keep all the evidence private and see if we can't come to a reasonable solution here."  

 

My guess is, if they cooperate and there's evidence to exonerate Brady, he'll reduce the penalty.  There's little doubt that there was some wrong doing.  There was no reason to take the footballs in the bathroom, the balls were severely underinflated, likely because of that wrongdoing, etc.  The Patriots are probably not getting leniency, but it could take on the whole Bountygate rationale, which was basically, the organization is guilty of doing somethign wrong, but we can't pinpoint any single player for it.  Whack the organization for organizational ineptitude and lack of cooperation during the investigation while keeping Brady's image as in tact as possible.  It's really the path of least resistance at this point for the Patriots and the NFL.  Of course, if there isn't exonerating evidence and Brady decides to appeal, all bets are off.

[pgt_rob]

NFL requested Pats to suspend the ball boys ... and both cannot be reinstated without league's approval.

 

‘Patriots owner Robert Kraft advised Commissioner Roger Goodell last week that Patriots employees John Jastremski and James McNally have been indefinitely suspended without pay by theclub, effective on May 6th. Neither of these individuals may be reinstated without the prior approval of NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent. If they are reinstated by the Patriots, Jastremski is prohibited from having any role in the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs to be used in NFL games during the 2015 season. McNally is barred from serving as a locker room attendant for the game officials, or having any involvement with the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs or any other equipment on game day.’

[jvan1973]

The Pats were complying with the NFL wishes given the investigation which they thought was independent. It is not like they suspended these guys on their own. Big difference.

This would be the first time they fully cooperated during the entire process. How long now before McNally actually takes his story to the highest bidder?

[pgt_rob]

Whatever AM, your guy is screwed. Sit back and enjoy the suspension.

[Gramz]

Goodell is at a disadvantage in PR, but it has nothign to do with this case.  Most people already don't like Goodell, right or wrong.  The NFLPA has gone out of its way to make sure of that over the past couple years.  I think a lot of what Goodell is doing by overseeing the appeal is giving Brady a chance to get his side of the story and see what the two ball boys have to say - namely about Brady's phone and why McNally called himself the Deflator.  All of this will be in confidentiality, so Goodell is basically saying, "Look, this doesn't need to go to court.  Not saying we're not prepared to do that if you guys take it that far.  But we can keep all the evidence private and see if we can't come to a reasonable solution here."  

 

My guess is, if they cooperate and there's evidence to exonerate Brady, he'll reduce the penalty.  There's little doubt that there was some wrong doing.  There was no reason to take the footballs in the bathroom, the balls were severely underinflated, likely because of that wrongdoing, etc.  The Patriots are probably not getting leniency, but it could take on the whole Bountygate rationale, which was basically, the organization is guilty of doing somethign wrong, but we can't pinpoint any single player for it.  Whack the organization for organizational ineptitude and lack of cooperation during the investigation while keeping Brady's image as in tact as possible.  It's really the path of least resistance at this point for the Patriots and the NFL.  Of course, if there isn't exonerating evidence and Brady decides to appeal, all bets are off.

Thanks.  I know he made some PR blunders in the past, I was merely saying in this particular case  I don't think so.  I think he's doing his best to get it right this time, and 76% of the public is on board with him this time.

 

I can't imagine there being any evidence to exonerate Tom,  quite possibly more evidence will come to light now that the Pats can no longer keep  tweedle dee and tweedle dum from talking.  

[OffensivelyPC]

When you are trying to make a scientific case for ball tampering, you have to have that data otherwise it is hearsay and as we saw from the halftime readings, there was a big difference between the two gauges. So if Walt supposedly can't remember which gauge he used then it is impossible to determine the air pressure of any of the balls at halftime ...

Which is why Exponent ran tests with both gauges.  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but Exponent found that, regardless of which gauge was used, the Patriots footballs had a greater proportion of lost air pressure than the Patriots.  It said that, for the Ideal Gas Law to explain the pressure drop in the Patriots footballs (AGAIN, regardless of which gauge Walt used), the Patriots footballs starting airpressure had to be less than 12.5 - meaning there is a probability that there was tampering.

[OffensivelyPC]

Thanks.  I know he made some PR blunders in the past, I was merely saying in this particular case  I don't think so.  I think he's doing his best to get it right this time, and 76% of the public is on board with him this time.

 

I can't imagine there being any evidence to exonerate Tom,  quite possibly more evidence will come to light now that the Pats can no longer keep  tweedle dee and tweedle dum from talking.  

Oh I don't disagree with the second paragraph.  As for the PR blunders, there are some that can look at Goodell's actions with regard to this investigation only and think, from a PR perspective, he's on top of it.  Of course, some will look at this taking into account Goodell's past mistakes.  No matter what Goodell does, he loses.  If he keeps the punishment the same, he's not being impartial and has too much power.  The judge, jury, executioner has always been the rallying cry of the NFLPA against Goodell, and people seem to get on board with that, no matter if Goodell is right or not.  If Goodell reduces the punishments, it's becauseh e's all buddy-buddy with Kraft and the Patriots.  He can't win, so the best thing he can do is exactly what he's already doing.  Overseeing the appeal and rule in the best interest of the NFL - consequences be damned.

[amfootball]

Goodell is at a disadvantage in PR, but it has nothign to do with this case.  Most people already don't like Goodell, right or wrong.  The NFLPA has gone out of its way to make sure of that over the past couple years.  I think a lot of what Goodell is doing by overseeing the appeal is giving Brady a chance to get his side of the story and see what the two ball boys have to say - namely about Brady's phone and why McNally called himself the Deflator.  All of this will be in confidentiality, so Goodell is basically saying, "Look, this doesn't need to go to court.  Not saying we're not prepared to do that if you guys take it that far.  But we can keep all the evidence private and see if we can't come to a reasonable solution here."  

 

My guess is, if they cooperate and there's evidence to exonerate Brady, he'll reduce the penalty.  There's little doubt that there was some wrong doing.  There was no reason to take the footballs in the bathroom, the balls were severely underinflated, likely because of that wrongdoing, etc.  The Patriots are probably not getting leniency, but it could take on the whole Bountygate rationale, which was basically, the organization is guilty of doing somethign wrong, but we can't pinpoint any single player for it.  Whack the organization for organizational ineptitude and lack of cooperation during the investigation while keeping Brady's image as in tact as possible.  It's really the path of least resistance at this point for the Patriots and the NFL.  Of course, if there isn't exonerating evidence and Brady decides to appeal, all bets are off.

Great points. One main point though. It is clear that Brady is not looking for a reduced suspension. He is looking to get the whole thing tossed out and if Goodell does not do that then he will go to court and let an independent judge decide.

[SteelCityColt]

After reading the Pats side, I don't believe Tom is guilty at all nor do I believe there was any tampering ...as I have been saying all along the league screwed this up when they did not have Walt write down the pregame psi and the business of the two gauges and different readings and the natural gas law ... I am wondering how on earth Wells came to any conclusion at all that they may have been tampering just based on the balls and the bang up job the league did on overseeing the process ...

 

You're back pedalling better than Revis... 

[OffensivelyPC]

Great points. One main point though. It is clear that Brady is not looking for a reduced suspension. He is looking to get the whole thing tossed out and if Goodell does not do that then he will go to court and let an independent judge decide.

I really just don't see that being the case.  From a federal perspective, the only real objections I see being issues in front of a federal court are evidentiary - which almost never gets overruled unless the ruling was clearly against the evidence, and that just doesn't seem to be the case.  It's a higher burden than the preponderance of the evidence standard.  The other is Brady's level of cooperation.  That issue will likely turn on whatever the statutes/case law says in the jurisdiction of that court.  But I have a hard time believing that cooperation wouldn't include turning over texts when the person being asked is in control of all disclosures.  Doesn't seem likely.

[Gramz]

Oh I don't disagree with the second paragraph.  As for the PR blunders, there are some that can look at Goodell's actions with regard to this investigation only and think, from a PR perspective, he's on top of it.  Of course, some will look at this taking into account Goodell's past mistakes.  No matter what Goodell does, he loses.  If he keeps the punishment the same, he's not being impartial and has too much power.  The judge, jury, executioner has always been the rallying cry of the NFLPA against Goodell, and people seem to get on board with that, no matter if Goodell is right or not.  If Goodell reduces the punishments, it's becauseh e's all buddy-buddy with Kraft and the Patriots.  He can't win, so the best thing he can do is exactly what he's already doing.  Overseeing the appeal and rule in the best interest of the NFL - consequences be damned.

No matter who was to oversee the appeal, it was a no-win if we're looking for an agreement that all sides think is fair.

 

Because, quite frankly,  that is NEVER going to happen.   

[lollygagger8]

The Pats were complying with the NFL wishes given the investigation which they thought was independent. It is not like they suspended these guys on their own. Big difference.

 

Please feel free to explain how is not handing over your phone texts with the Deflator would be considered complying.      .................? 

[OffensivelyPC]

No matter who was to oversee the appeal, it was a no-win if we're looking for an agreement that all sides think is fair.

 

Because, quite frankly,  that is NEVER going to happen.   

As Bill Watterson's Calvin said, "a good compromise leaves everyone mad."  

[amfootball]

I really just don't see that being the case.  From a federal perspective, the only real objections I see being issues in front of a federal court are evidentiary - which almost never gets overruled unless the ruling was clearly against the evidence, and that just doesn't seem to be the case.  It's a higher burden than the preponderance of the evidence standard.  The other is Brady's level of cooperation.  That issue will likely turn on whatever the statutes/case law says in the jurisdiction of that court.  But I have a hard time believing that cooperation wouldn't include turning over texts when the person being asked is in control of all disclosures.  Doesn't seem likely.

You don't hire Jeffrey Keesler and not go to court. His record vs the NFL is pristine. And I think it is clear at this point that Brady did not hand over his phone because there is anything incriminating on it but because he did not want to give it to Wells given he has no authority to take it and he wanted it to try to find him guilty anyways.

[Hoosier]

You don't hire Jeffrey Keesler and not go to court. His record vs the NFL is pristine. And I think it is clear at this point that Brady did not hand over his phone because there is anything incriminating on it but because he did not want to give it to Wells given he has no authority to take it and he wanted it to try to find him guilty anyways.

Wells did not ask Brady to give his cell phone to him.

He asked for Brady's attorneys to pick out any communications that were pertinent to the investigation, print it out and submit that.  Even with letting Brady cherry pick what he would turn over, they straight-up refused.

 

[Shane Bond]

Wish they had neutral arbitrator. Now they will whine about Roger for rest of their lives.

[OffensivelyPC]

You don't hire Jeffrey Keesler and not go to court. His record vs the NFL is pristine. And I think it is clear at this point that Brady did not hand over his phone because there is anything incriminating on it but because he did not want to give it to Wells given he has no authority to take it and he wanted it to try to find him guilty anyways.

Well, no, Wells did not have authority, as in a formal court order.  The CBA places the obligation on Brady to comply with the investigation.  And Wells made it abundantly clear that he didn't need to physically take Brady's phone and go to an electronic forensics company to extract all records from it and then narrow the results.  He said that he would simply ask Brady and his legal team to provide any responsive texts and that he would take Brady's word that it was everything.  I know Yee responded to this publicly, but honestly, it wasn't a cumbersome request, much less invasive.  

 

There was really no reason to outright decline everything.  I'm not going to make the unreasonable assumption that there was incriminating evidence, but even if there were, Brady/Yee simply just didn't have to turn it over.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

I don't see where he's lost the PR battle, not on this matter.   Everything I've read, seen, heard, is that 76% of the public, including avid fans, were pleased with the punishment and investigation.   To me.... he's winning that PR battle.

 

There are those that still believe a pre-game warning to the Pats that there were complaints concerning their game balls would have kept the playing field level and avoided this whole mess.  Now if you believe Roger saw this as a chronic issue on the initial NFL investigation, and while he may not be able to address that, he can the recent incident thus the ability to prevent it in the future, I agree with you.  Hire Wells, the SB goes on, and the report later puts him where he sites now, Hearing the appeal.  But it addresses the Integrity of the game. 

 

The Collateral damage is the Super Bowl MVP may well not play in the NFL season opener.  Neither will LaVeon Bell and Legarrette Blount.    Roger Goodell will take flak for that.  Folks in the media are already showing signs of dismay at that prospect. I wonder what the rating (TV ratings) will be?  Will sponsors pony up big bucks for commercial spots?  It will be interesting.  And if the courts overturn any punishment citing the $25,000 fine for altering balls amfootball like to keep pointing out (without adding the but not limited to) and the punishment meted out was excessive for the 'but not limited to' clause, It will really rain down on him on an inability to find punishment that fits the crime. right or wrong.

 

I hope that Rogers stands on Troy Vincents punishment unless the Pats/Brady offer some admission of wrongdoing, or new evidence not previously known  makes it more likely Jastremski and McNally operated on their own accord.  If/when it goes to the courts, I won't care anymore.  Brady will play opening game, and likely the whole season before the case is completed, and the NFL will be knee deep into implementing a new pre-game football handling rule(s).

[ricker182]

This is what I thought the suspension should have been with anticipation of a reduction.

Would that have been equivalent to missing the Super Bowl?

Because that's what his punishment should have been.

[amfootball]

Well, no, Wells did not have authority, as in a formal court order.  The CBA places the obligation on Brady to comply with the investigation.  And Wells made it abundantly clear that he didn't need to physically take Brady's phone and go to an electronic forensics company to extract all records from it and then narrow the results.  He said that he would simply ask Brady and his legal team to provide any responsive texts and that he would take Brady's word that it was everything.  I know Yee responded to this publicly, but honestly, it wasn't a cumbersome request, much less invasive.  

 

There was really no reason to outright decline everything.  I'm not going to make the unreasonable assumption that there was incriminating evidence, but even if there were, Brady/Yee simply just didn't have to turn it over.  

I am not arguing any of that. My point is Brady was not going to hand over any information from his phone to Wells given he was there to prove guilt. My point here is Brady clearly believes there is nothing incriminating on his phone and is comfortable with an independent authority look at it vs an investigator hired by the league. You don't hire Keesler if you are not prepared to go to court and hand over your phone.

[pgt_rob]

I am not arguing any of that. My point is Brady was not going to hand over any information from his phone to Wells given he was there to prove guilt. My point here is Brady clearly believes there is nothing incriminating on his phone and is comfortable with an independent authority look at it vs an investigator hired by the league. You don't hire Keesler if you are not prepared to go to court and hand over your phone.

 

What's going to happen if they do go to court and it's proven that Brady is guilty? Are you still going to be complaining?

[amfootball]

NFLPA: Brady punishment 'unsupported'

 

In the appeal, obtained by ABC News, the NFLPA writes that Tom Brady's treatment is "unfair and inconsistent," violating requirements set forth in the NFL's collective-bargaining agreement. The NFLPA asserts "no player in the history of the NFL has ever received anything approaching this level of discipline for similar behavior."   http://espn.go.com/nfl/

[ricker182]

I am not arguing any of that. My point is Brady was not going to hand over any information from his phone to Wells given he was there to prove guilt. My point here is Brady clearly believes there is nothing incriminating on his phone and is comfortable with an independent authority look at it vs an investigator hired by the league. You don't hire Keesler if you are not prepared to go to court and hand over your phone.

That's not cooperating though. It doesn't make him guilty but when you refuse a legitimate request after saying you will cooperate with the investigation, it looks bad.

Again it doesn't make him guilty. The Wells report does.