Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[The Old Crow]

You have to like the #no Brady no Banner campaign going on in New England. It should be # it's a no brainer they get no banner !

[crazycolt1]

BB could beat us, because he is BB and beating him fair and square is damn-near impossible.  Is he wearing the hoodie? Is Brady pisst off? Can we stop their run-attack?

 

Regardless, it doesn't matter the time of day, what matters is whether or not Chuck has stepped up to the plate and hit a home-run as far as game-planning.

 

If Chuck can't out-coach BB, then we are screwed.

The coach can only do so much. It's up to the players to take the game. This mind set of being scared of the big bad Patriots needs to stop. The Colts got over them in the past and they will do it again.

[GoColts8818]

My apologies for misunderstanding. I think I was probably more responding to the poster who said the Patriots lie cheat and kill. It's impossible to predict everything, and by cutting him immediately, the organization is saying they don't want to be associated with it and it doesnt reflect what the team stands for. Baltimore did the same with Ray Rice much to their credit.

i honestly give credit to the Pats for how they handled Aaron Hernandiz. Unless something comes out, which I don't think it will, that they had way more knowledge than has been reported then I think thry handled that situation about as well as they could hsve. They took a chance on a guy with red flags and got burned. If you take those chances you will get burned sooner or later and you have to be ready to handle things if they go south and I thought the Pats did. I look at that in a completely different light than spygate or deflategate.

[pgt_rob]

Do you ever watch court TV ? Other than celebrities like OJ and Hollywood people. Here's how it often goes.

 

Husband has affair. Husband takes life insurance policy out on wife. She disappears and is never found. The husband is the only person that has motive. No other evidence except maybe a bad statement or TEXT message. Result.. ? Jury is out about 3 hours . Verdict guilty . I have no idea where all these people are getting the idea that you have to have direct physical evidence that the crime was committed.

 

Probable cause. That's all you need for a jury to convict. Brady has no chance if he and Kraft appeal. When you wake up the next morning and see snow on the ground, well probable cause says that it snowed last night even though you did not physically see it snow.

[Shane Bond]

What does it say about people who supports cheaters?.

[OffensivelyPC]

Who cares what you were trying to prove specifically, the principles remain the same about people not being wrong for wanting to question something when there is a lack of proof. Patriots fans were getting chastised for it, but apparently you understand what we were feeling.

I'm not sure I follow.  The evidence derived from the patriots makes it seem pretty likely that they've done it in the past.  There isn't aboslute proof, just like therei sn't conclusive proof that Brady directed the guys to do it (i.e. a recorded message/text).  But the point is, for guilt purposes, it's likely that both (a) it has been done before and (b) that it was under Brady's instruction.  It's not a double standard, and I'm not sure where you get that.  If it's likely that something occurred, people are going to question if the Patriots did it against their team.  One team, as I've said, that has a legitimate gripe is the Ravens.  Perhaps I am using my words a bit loosely.  But as I read the report, to me, even though the Ravens game was not the subject of the investigation, Ravens fans can question whether the Patriots should have even been in the superbowl, because it was likely that they had deflated footballs int he past.  I'm not sure why this is so difficult to comprehend.  The only issue for the fans is to figure out which side with which they are aligned.  

[dynasty13]

What does it say about people who supports cheaters?.

 

That we are horrible people. Just the worst people ever.

 

You have kids Shane? You ever loved something unconditionally before? We are fans of this team, and much like when your kid does something stupid and you are disappointed in them, you don't stop loving them.

[pgt_rob]

[dw49]

Pats are very tight with King. We will see how far it goes. But Kraft has nothing to lose here. He was punished heavily again for the second time and this time with a flawed report. He has really left Kraft no choice.

 

 

I've been wrong before and if I am here , I will comeback to this issue and admit I was wrong. Not like some of your buddies that came over here annoyed the daylights out of Colt fans and then disappeared when the Wells report came out. 

[corgi]

By that definition then all NFL teams are terrible because a lot of them have people convicted of assault, DV, alcohol related incidents like DUI.  

 

There was no way for them to know that Hernandez might end up killing a guy other then the character concerns they did know about when drafting him.  And I don't believe those concerns where any greater or more obvious then a lot of other guys who end up in the NFL with character concerns.  

 

Should the Colts be held responsible for D'Qwell Jackson punching a Pizza guy?  And they didn't even release him.  Pats released Hernandez at great cost to their cap.  Sorry they did everything right unless you expect that they never ever sign someone with character concerns again. . . and in that case good luck finding an NFL team who never signs guys with character concerns.

That's all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that he murdered someone while a member of the team. Pats fans try to use Ray Lewis, and Ray Rice against the Ravens so it's fair game. They also will bring up D'Qell Jackson and Eric Walden when talking about how the Colts are classy. They tried to give the Colts fans crap because Irsay struggles with addiction. I will use it all day everyday. They want to fight dirty, I'm all for that.

[dynasty13]

I'm not sure I follow.  The evidence derived from the patriots makes it seem pretty likely that they've done it in the past.  There isn't aboslute proof, just like therei sn't conclusive proof that Brady directed the guys to do it (i.e. a recorded message/text).  But the point is, for guilt purposes, it's likely that both (a) it has been done before and (b) that it was under Brady's instruction.  It's not a double standard, and I'm not sure where you get that.  If it's likely that something occurred, people are going to question if the Patriots did it against their team.  One team, as I've said, that has a legitimate gripe is the Ravens.  Perhaps I am using my words a bit loosely.  But as I read the report, to me, even though the Ravens game was not the subject of the investigation, Ravens fans can question whether the Patriots should have even been in the superbowl, because it was likely that they had deflated footballs int he past.  I'm not sure why this is so difficult to comprehend.  The only issue for the fans is to figure out which side with which they are aligned.  

 

The point is that Patriots fans have been saying that the report was written in a way that left a lot of questions...yet when we had the audacity to question the lack of proof, we were lambasted for it. Now you are saying that there is nothing wrong with questioning when there is a lack of proof of something...so I said that's all we were trying to say before. It doesn't matter what the topic is or what is trying to be proved...but when there is a lack of proof of something it is only natural to question.

[corgi]

You are not thinking this through. This has been the worst year ever for the NFL in terms of how it has handled disciplinary actions. The owners have not been happy with Goodell all year long. Now he has Kraft, his biggest supporter coming after him. We will see where this goes but this could be the proverbial straw ...

Not one crap is given about Kraft's opinion of anyone.

[amfootball]

I've been wrong before and if I am here , I will comeback to this issue and admit I was wrong. Not like some of your buddies that came over here annoyed the daylights out of Colt fans and then disappeared when the Wells report came out. 

I know you will. And I am not saying Kraft will definitely do this but I think it is likely given he has a lot at stake in terms of its brand and perception which means dollars for him and as you  know that is big for him.

[GoColts8818]

Why? Because we are raking your arguments over the coals?

When you spend money, time and energy to go to these games, you want them to be fair

When you spend 15 years listening to people drool over how awesome the Patriots are

When you spend years watching your team get beat, not by a better team but by a group of cheaters(it's one thing to lose to a team who played better but not to one who cheats.)

When you spend years listening to Pats fans acting like they walk on water..

When you watch pats fans come onto a Colts forum and troll...

When you have pats fans who try to justify cheating by winning the Superbowl...a game the pats had to cheat to get into...

Then yeah, it gets personal.

ive said before while I don't like the Pats either and I know exactly what you are saying with the bulk of these things this has never been personal for me. I refuse to let a team I dislike that plays a game effect my personal life. Sure I enjoy watch the Pats lose and like it even more if it's at the hands of the Colts but if they do win it doesn't effect me. I don't know maybe it's just me but I dint think this is personal at all because my direct life and what I consider to be important in life was not impacted by this. The pats cheated, I still woke up the next day healthy with my family doing well and I still had my job, car, and house.

[corgi]

When are you guys hanging your 2014 AFC Finalist banner?

 

Maybe they'll wait until week 6???

There's no * attached to anything the Colts have accomplished.

[amfootball]

I've been wrong before and if I am here , I will comeback to this issue and admit I was wrong. Not like some of your buddies that came over here annoyed the daylights out of Colt fans and then disappeared when the Wells report came out. 

Honest question - do you believe this punishment was fair or excessive?

[csmopar]

Do you ever watch court TV ? Other than celebrities like OJ and Hollywood people. Here's how it often goes.

Husband has affair. Husband takes life insurance policy out on wife. She disappears and is never found. The husband is the only person that has motive. No other evidence except maybe a bad statement or TEXT message. Result.. ? Jury is out about 3 hours . Verdict guilty . I have no idea where all these people are getting the idea that you have to have direct physical evidence that the crime was committed.

don't watch those shows but yes I agree.

What's even more comical is that they think the pats will win in civil court.

I took pre law courses when trying to decide if I wanted to go to law school or not.

Let me explain this, or try to

In a criminal case, the law states that to convict, there has to be reason beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty, that can be cicumstancial or physical.

In a civil case, you just have to have a valid point that can raise enough suspicion that something took place. Much easier to prove guilt in a civil case. See Ron Goldman suit on OJ Simpson...not enough evidence to convict criminally but the courts on the civil side said he was responsible for the deaths... leaning on circumstantial evidence is prime in civil court.

If this goes to civil court, there is no way the Pats win in civil court as this report is more than damaging enough plus the prior history.

As a trained investigator, this report is written solely to be able to be vetted in court and hold up. A smart move by Wells

[dynasty13]

There's no * attached to anything the Colts have accomplished.

 

When I look up at those Championship banners having up at Gillette, I wont see any either.

[dw49]

Wow did Stephen A Smith just destroy Skip Bayliss. Poor Skip was left muttering... I dunno... I dunno...

[corgi]

Why get personal? My comment was playful banter, no more, no less. As rediculous as some of you think we are for having the audacity to question this whole situation, many of you are really taking it to the next level. 

Says the guy stirring the pot.

[crazycolt1]

Huh? This is his statement:

 

Despite our conviction that there was no tampering with footballs, it was our intention to accept any discipline levied by the league. Today’s punishment, however, far exceeded any reasonable expectation. It was based completely on circumstantial rather than hard or conclusive evidence,”

 

I don't know how you can read that and not take that as he will fight it. We will see but there is talk all over our media that Kraft is gearing up for a fight ...

 

Our beat guy Mike Reiss thinks they are clearly fighting words, http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4781402/robert-kraft-decides-hes-not-done-fighting-on-behalf-of-patriots

Who cares if they are fighting words? The NFL handed down it's punishment. If Kraft want's to take this to a civil court then the NFL will have the right to subpoena Brady's cell phone where they didn't have that right before. Also the two equipment men will  have a subpoena waiting for them. All I can say is Kraft better know for sure what is on that cell phone before going forward.

[BullsColtsFan1]

I was hoping for more this man lied in order to play in the SB which sends the wrong message to the young ones in this country

I don't disagree with you but from a competetive fan standpoint, I want him to play against the Colts.  You dang well know all Pats fans will have an excuse if he doesn't play.  I want to see the Colts finally beat the Pats at full strength.  I mean I wouldn't have complained if he got more, I was just hoping for at least 4.  I honestly think it will get reduced to two before it's all set and done.  I just hope the league looks at it from the standpoint that he wasn't very cooperative during the whole investigation.

[corgi]

When I look up at those Championship banners having up at Gillette, I wont see any either.

You can chose to not acknowledge the taint, but you can't take back all the proof.

[GoColts8818]

That's all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that he murdered someone while a member of the team. Pats fans try to use Ray Lewis, and Ray Rice against the Ravens so it's fair game. They also will bring up D'Qell Jackson and Eric Walden when talking about how the Colts are classy. They tried to give the Colts fans crap because Irsay struggles with addiction. I will use it all day everyday. They want to fight dirty, I'm all for that.

two wrongs don't make a right. Honestly why care so much what a Pats fan thinks or says? If you find them annoying put them on ignore snd move on, getting upset over it is exactly what they want you to do.

[csmopar]

ive said before while I don't like the Pats either and I know exactly what you are saying with the bulk of these things this has never been personal for me. I refuse to let a team I dislike that plays a game effect my personal life. Sure I enjoy watch the Pats lose and like it even more if it's at the hands of the Colts but if they do win it doesn't effect me. I don't know maybe it's just me but I dint think this is personal at all because my direct life and what I consider to be important in life was not impacted by this. The pats cheated, I still woke up the next day healthy with my family doing well and I still had my job, car, and house.

Very true. I think our definitions of personal are slightly different.

While yes, it doesn't affect my personal life, it's still annoying and quite irrating being beat by cheaters. Even if it's not me directly.

[dynasty13]

And in the future when I look at the Superbowl results and records, I wont see any there either.

[dw49]

I know you will. And I am not saying Kraft will definitely do this but I think it is likely given he has a lot at stake in terms of its brand and perception which means dollars for him and as you  know that is big for him.

 

 

I think the only way (IMO) they go to court is if Brady is really innocent. Man.. it just doesn't appear that way to me. Is it possible ? I guess so.. I would give it about a 5 to 10% chance. I believe they will appeal it but taking to court would be a huge step further.

[pgt_rob]

When I look up at those Championship banners having up at Gillette, I wont see any either.

 

I can go to Gillette with a sharpie and add the asterisks if you wish?

[corgi]

two wrongs don't make a right. Honestly why care so much what a Pats fan thinks or says? If you find them annoying put them on ignore snd move on, getting upset over it is exactly what they want you to do.

I'm not remotely upset, or excited. Tone is lost in text. I'm happy engaging them.

[BullsColtsFan1]

That we are horrible people. Just the worst people ever.

 

You have kids Shane? You ever loved something unconditionally before? We are fans of this team, and much like when your kid does something stupid and you are disappointed in them, you don't stop loving them.

Good analogy.  I totally see where you are coming from.  If it were me and the Colts did it, I would be ashamed of them for doing it and I would admit it was wrong(which most Pats fans in this case will not) but I would eventually get over it and they would still be my team.

[OffensivelyPC]

The point is that Patriots fans have been saying that the report was written in a way that left a lot of questions...yet when we had the audacity to question the lack of proof, we were lambasted for it. Now you are saying that there is nothing wrong with questioning when there is a lack of proof of something...so I said that's all we were trying to say before. It doesn't matter what the topic is or what is trying to be proved...but when there is a lack of proof of something it is only natural to question.

I'm saying there is a right to question the lack of proof of something when the accused is the reason for hte lack of proof.  I'm not saying it's okay to assume they deflated footballs against the Ravens.  I'm saying it's okay for the Ravens to question it, and the reason its' okay is because the Patriots were not fully forthcoming.  It's the reason for the penalty being as hefty as it was.  

[csmopar]

I can go to Gillette with a sharpie and add the asterisks if you wish?

[GoColts8818]

Very true. I think our definitions of personal are slightly different.

While yes, it doesn't affect my personal life, it's still annoying and quite irrating being beat by cheaters. Even if it's not me directly.

i agree it's annoying they cheated and while I was disappointed with the AFCCG as soon as it was over I guess I just got over it quickly. Again, maybe that's just me. I fully understand why people don't like the Pats and their fanbase. I am just trying to suggest don't give them the rise they are looking for.

[amfootball]

I think the only way (IMO) they go to court is if Brady is really innocent. Man.. it just doesn't appear that way to me. Is it possible ? I guess so.. I would give it about a 5 to 10% chance. I believe they will appeal it but taking to court would be a huge step further.

If he feels good about his phone and that there is nothing there than I think he goes full bore. The report had nothing on him as pertaining to the AFCCG. Nothing. As we said before, difficult to prove tampering. Even more difficult to prove someone ordered it.

[dynasty13]

I can go to Gillette with a sharpie and add the asterisks if you wish?

 

Go for it. But you're gonna run out of ink real fast if you try to add add them to every record, banner, website, and piece of history that will never have them...no matter how much you want it.

[corgi]

Go for it. But you're gonna run out of ink real fast if you try to add add them to every record, banner, website, and piece of history that will never have them...no matter how much you want it.

We've (mankind) sent men to the moon, and built Pyramids and the Great Wall of China...I think putting an * on the Patriots banners etc... shouldn't been an issue.

[Archangel]

The point is that Patriots fans have been saying that the report was written in a way that left a lot of questions...yet when we had the audacity to question the lack of proof, we were lambasted for it. Now you are saying that there is nothing wrong with questioning when there is a lack of proof of something...so I said that's all we were trying to say before. It doesn't matter what the topic is or what is trying to be proved...but when there is a lack of proof of something it is only natural to question.

 

 Patriot fans have the right to question the wells report, So the patriots fans should ban together and get the organization to work with the NFL and hand over all texts to the NFL and put this to rest once and for all.

[Shane Bond]

My stalker is back

[csmopar]

i agree it's annoying they cheated and while I was disappointed with the AFCCG as soon as it was over I guess I just got over it quickly. Again, maybe that's just me. I fully understand why people don't like the Pats and their fanbase. I am just trying to suggest don't give them the rise they are looking for.

Yeah good point. Sometimes though, it's tough not to feed the trolls

[pgt_rob]

Go for it. But you're gonna run out of ink real fast if you try to add add them to every record, banner, website, and piece of history that will never have them...no matter how much you want it.

 

1 sharpie will do just fine.