DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[DougDew]

Yeah, that seems over the top.

 

Probably best we agree to disagree and move on. 

 

See you in other threads.

Agreed, its over the top.....as far as we know.

[amfootball]

I've been very honest and objective about this, but just have to point out...

 

It's premature to crap on Brady's legacy at this point. You can call him a cheater, a liar, whatever, but if the Patriots come out next season, go 12-4 again, and make a deep run or maybe even get to another SB, then how much did deflated balls have to do with anything? 

 

If they come out and go 8-8, different story.

 

This is what happened with Spygate. People said they would suck once the league took Belichick's cameras away. How did that work out? 

 

Be objective. Be reasonable. Wait and watch to see what happens. If Brady has a career year in 2015, with new rules and "clean" footballs, a lot of you are going to still hate him anyway. 

GoPats,

 

There is nothing to defend here in terms of legacy. The game in question was 45-7 and then we won the SB with proper footballs. This isn't even on the same planet as spygate as much as the haters would like it to be. Brady shredded the best defense in January forever cementing his legacy. There honestly is nothing left to prove - he has it all, the titles, the playoff wins, regular season wins, top 5 in all major passing stats. All he can do now is add to his GOAT status making it even harder for the likes of Aaron Rodgers and the young guns to try to catch him.

[amfootball]

I do. At least to Armstrong. Lance Armstrong may have been worse, but at least he had the decency to cheat in a sport nobody cares about.

lol.

[braveheartcolt]

I can't believe the amount of nonsense that comes from one person.

Someone please ban me and save me the aggravation.

I dont seem to have the discipline to stay away on my own.

Tell us a dirty joke Gramz. That will get you a ban, plus we may get a giggle or two as an added bonus!

Just a thought...

[buccolts]

GoPats,

 

There is nothing to defend here in terms of legacy. The game in question was 45-7 and then we won the SB with proper footballs. This isn't even on the same planet as spygate as much as the haters would like it to be. Brady shredded the best defense in January forever cementing his legacy. There honestly is nothing left to prove - he has it all, the titles, the playoff wins, regular season wins, top 5 in all major passing stats. All he can do now is add to his GOAT status making it even harder for the likes of Aaron Rodgers and the young guns to try to catch him.

 

 

O.K., look.......my signature goes for women also. And you're proving it.

[jvan1973]

GoPats,

There is nothing to defend here in terms of legacy. The game in question was 45-7 and then we won the SB with proper footballs. This isn't even on the same planet as spygate as much as the haters would like it to be. Brady shredded the best defense in January forever cementing his legacy. There honestly is nothing left to prove - he has it all, the titles, the playoff wins, regular season wins, top 5 in all major passing stats. All he can do now is add to his GOAT status making it even harder for the likes of Aaron Rodgers and the young guns to try to catch him.

he has yet to prove he can get to the playoffs and win the superbowl without stepping outside the rules in someway

[amfootball]

O.K., look.......my signature goes for women also. And you're proving it.

lol. Great signature. I am sorry but I respectfully disagree. Your signature is def. a male thing.

 

Now for us women, I would say we hear what we say as we are usually the ones talking all the time anyways.

[Btown_Colt]

GoPats,

 

There is nothing to defend here in terms of legacy. The game in question was 45-7 and then we won the SB with proper footballs. This isn't even on the same planet as spygate as much as the haters would like it to be. Brady shredded the best defense in January forever cementing his legacy. There honestly is nothing left to prove - he has it all, the titles, the playoff wins, regular season wins, top 5 in all major passing stats. All he can do now is add to his GOAT status making it even harder for the likes of Aaron Rodgers and the young guns to try to catch him.

 

 

And this is why nobody likes patriot fans. In the middle of all this, days after a report was issued stating that Brady cheated, you still feel you need to spew this. He is not the GOAT time but possibly the greatest cheater of all time. Mariota may have just passed up TB and he has never played a down in the NFL, but at least he hasn't cheated.

[garydellabate]

Yep. That info another poster put out yesterday on fumble stats for the 'law firm' was pretty eye opening.

And that's just one example.

 

I wonder what Blount's fumble rate was for the Steelers last year.

Heck, now I'm wondering if the whole Blount to the Pats thing sparked this issue.

Way back in January I had a statistic that compared Law Firm, Welker, Amendola, Lafell, Blount, and Woodhead during their careers as Pats vs elsewhere and the touch to fumble ratio severely is more advantageous as a member of the Pats.

[amfootball]

he has yet to prove he can get to the playoffs and win the superbowl without stepping outside the rules in someway

He got to two SBs with no rule breaking of any sort ... and spygate was Bill anyways so really it is 5 SBs.

[amfootball]

I never knew Don Yee even had a voice now he is everywhere. Wow. Talk about making the rounds ...

[BlueShoe]

I disagree...Brady is good enough...he has done it before...and no I think Belicheck and Brady have a much deeper relationship than that. Belicheck has brought in many players with worse issues. This isn't a divorcable offense in my opinion. I think they can get past this. Brady has no history of bad behavior...they share 4 SBs together...its like being married for over a decade and having 4 kids together and your wife makes a dumb mistake and kisses someone....and denies it...surely you work that out considering all the goodwill you have built up....thats my analogy.

 

Not me. I don't think BB will see it that way either. 

 

Brady has become a one read QB. He is not throwing for 50 plus TD's.

[GoPats]

GoPats,

 

There is nothing to defend here in terms of legacy. The game in question was 45-7 and then we won the SB with proper footballs. This isn't even on the same planet as spygate as much as the haters would like it to be. Brady shredded the best defense in January forever cementing his legacy. There honestly is nothing left to prove - he has it all, the titles, the playoff wins, regular season wins, top 5 in all major passing stats. All he can do now is add to his GOAT status making it even harder for the likes of Aaron Rodgers and the young guns to try to catch him.

 

I hear you AM. 

 

The thing is, we're talking about a couple of pounds of air pressure in a football. I personally don't find that to be on the same level as Barry Bonds or Lance Armstrong, and I say that having given it all some very objective thought over the past couple of days. 

 

Personally I am a cycling fan... it was crushing when Armstrong got busted. There are similar feelings about Brady, but I don't believe that deflated footballs are the reason he's accomplished what he's accomplished.

 

I don't think that will be the majority opinion moving forward. 

[DougDew]

GoPats,

 

There is nothing to defend here in terms of legacy. The game in question was 45-7 and then we won the SB with proper footballs. This isn't even on the same planet as spygate as much as the haters would like it to be. Brady shredded the best defense in January forever cementing his legacy. There honestly is nothing left to prove - he has it all, the titles, the playoff wins, regular season wins, top 5 in all major passing stats. All he can do now is add to his GOAT status making it even harder for the likes of Aaron Rodgers and the young guns to try to catch him.

The wells report indicated it was common knowledge among the league that the NE QB liked under inflated balls.

What happened is this: Just like the employees of a company know things that "management" doesn't, all of the field personnel in the NFL knew that Brady cheats on ball inflation. Its not just one game. The teams didn't bring it to management's attention because, just like pitchers in baseball concealing sandpaper etc, a lot of players skirt the rules. The ball underinflation was never challenged by the teams because it seemed petty.

Then, BB decides to operate according to the "letter of the law" and does his bush-league hide-the-eligibile-receiver ploy against the Ravens and goes to the AFCCG because of it. The Ravens and the Colts then decide to also play by the "letter-of-the-law" and call out Brady and the Pats for violating the letter of the law on ball inflation.

Its more than one game. It was common knowledge amongst the league players. And its probably been happening for years.

If BB didn't go bush league during the Ravens game, nobody would have ever called out Brady and the cheating would have continued to the end of his career.

[Jason_]

I do. At least to Armstrong. Lance Armstrong may have been worse, but at least he had the decency to cheat in a sport nobody cares about.

 

Admittedly, I have no idea about the Lance Armstrong incident.  I have less than 0 interest in baseball.  I knew when I posted that last message I should have only included Nixon's name. lol

[Archangel]

Just got done watching inside the NFL they had 2 former Patriot players on discussing this issue, Why are they putting this on the colts organization for balls being underdeflated at halftime when did the colts became under investigation for rules violation and also talking about the AFCG as if it was going to change the outcome by saying if the patriots played the colts 10 times they would of beat them 8 out of the 10. Bashing the NFL for hiring Wells to do a independent investagation and they of hired a outside source to investagate. Am I wrong here if everyone would of come clean in the first place when asked about we would not be talking about this today and going on with the rookie camp. Asking again was their reports stating the patriots were tampering with footballs during the jets and the bears games and did the wells report not state some texts went back as far as may of 2014. Then answer me why in the world would does inside the NFL have 2 jacka cant say that talking as if the colts organization was wrong in asking the NFL for a even playing field

[amfootball]

I hear you AM. 

 

The thing is, we're talking about a couple of pounds of air pressure in a football. I personally don't find that to be on the same level as Barry Bonds or Lance Armstrong, and I say that having given it all some very objective thought over the past couple of days. 

 

Personally I am a cycling fan... it was crushing when Armstrong got busted. There are similar feelings about Brady, but I don't believe that deflated footballs are the reason he's accomplished what he's accomplished.

 

I don't think that will be the majority opinion moving forward. 

Yeah, I think winning the Super Bowl was paramount. He had to do that and he did. The rest of this is just noise at this point. Honestly,  I don't know how he blocked all that out and played the way he did. What is going on right now is only a tenth of how bad it was the two weeks up to the bowl. But that win - the most important of his career for many reasons - not just air pressure, but the 10 year gap, coming so close and falling short two other times, and getting #4. Really full circle in so many ways. The most satisfying win as a fan of the team and him. I think that is why he looked so relaxed last night at Salem State despite the swirling media. He does not have the SB to play this time.

[PeterBowman]

Just got done watching inside the NFL they had 2 former Patriot players on discussing this issue, Why are they putting this on the colts organization for balls being underdeflated at halftime when did the colts became under investigation for rules violation and also talking about the AFCG as if it was going to change the outcome by saying if the patriots played the colts 10 times they would of beat them 8 out of the 10. Bashing the NFL for hiring Wells to do a independent investagation and they of hired a outside source to investagate. Am I wrong here if everyone would of come clean in the first place when asked about we would not be talking about this today and going on with the rookie camp. Asking again was their reports stating the patriots were tampering with footballs during the jets and the bears games and did the wells report not state some texts went back as far as may of 2014. Then answer me why in the world would does inside the NFL have 2 jacka cant say that talking as if the colts organization was wrong in asking the NFL for a even playing field

They're probably defending it so vigorously because they're complicit in it and know how things work there.

[Dustin]

Admittedly, I have no idea about the Lance Armstrong incident.  I have less than 0 interest in baseball. 

 

[DougDew]

Just got done watching inside the NFL they had 2 former Patriot players on discussing this issue, Why are they putting this on the colts organization for balls being underdeflated at halftime when did the colts became under investigation for rules violation and also talking about the AFCG as if it was going to change the outcome by saying if the patriots played the colts 10 times they would of beat them 8 out of the 10. Bashing the NFL for hiring Wells to do a independent investagation and they of hired a outside source to investagate. Am I wrong here if everyone would of come clean in the first place when asked about we would not be talking about this today and going on with the rookie camp. Asking again was their reports stating the patriots were tampering with footballs during the jets and the bears games and did the wells report not state some texts went back as far as may of 2014. Then answer me why in the world would does inside the NFL have 2 jacka cant say that talking as if the colts organization was wrong in asking the NFL for a even playing field

Because the sentiment where calling out the authoritative body for wrong doing has an increasing audience. Its becoming a quite popular thing to do.

It lacks reason. Blaming the governing body, in this case the snitching Colts, just a way for the talkers to tap into the segment of the NFL fan base that has no interest in being reasonable.

[Warhorse]

GoPats,

 

There is nothing to defend here in terms of legacy. The game in question was 45-7 and then we won the SB with proper footballs. This isn't even on the same planet as spygate as much as the haters would like it to be. Brady shredded the best defense in January forever cementing his legacy. There honestly is nothing left to prove - he has it all, the titles, the playoff wins, regular season wins, top 5 in all major passing stats. All he can do now is add to his GOAT status making it even harder for the likes of Aaron Rodgers and the young guns to try to catch him.

You have every right to this opinion...as far as your own view. Heck, you can even make a guess that most pats fans will feel this same way. But I....(notice how I said "I" which doesn't make it appear like I am speaking for the majority) believe that his legacy very well may be altered by a massive group of NFL fans. You can hope all you want, but no definitive statements by you or any other fan will protect his legacy from the dangers it now faces. Good luck with your hopes. 

[Archangel]

And another thing if was such a big deal to the patriots organization why did they not ask for their own independent investigation and pay for it themselves to see if any wrong doing was going on.

[Superman]

I think this is his attempt to "poke fun" at those that think this isn't "something all teams do" or anyone that thinks it a "serious offense ."

 

Probably. As soon as I think I've caught up with Dustin, he kicks it up a notch.

[buccolts]

He got to two SBs with no rule breaking of any sort ... and spygate was Bill anyways so really it is 5 SBs.

 

Sadly, a shadow of doubt has been cast, and none of that can be proven.

[Warhorse]

lol. Great signature. I am sorry but I respectfully disagree. Your signature is def. a male thing.

Just wow. Would you care to elaborate? I would assume you are talking about the word "man". So tell me, do you think any "women" ever worked for...

 

International Longshoremen's Association

 

I am speaking for Buccolts, but I believe his sig was dual gender. 

[buccolts]

I never knew Don Yee even had a voice now he is everywhere. Wow. Talk about making the rounds ...

 

Well, it's happy hour, so.........

[buccolts]

Way back in January I had a statistic that compared Law Firm, Welker, Amendola, Lafell, Blount, and Woodhead during their careers as Pats vs elsewhere and the touch to fumble ratio severely is more advantageous as a member of the Pats.

 

Boy, I wish I could say 'I'm surprised'.

But, not badly enough to feel sorry for them.

[dgambill]

Patriot fans for years dogged Peyton Manning who I would point out is a honorable man who is not a liar .

 

This is Karma & the Patriots & there fans earned it  Obnoxious & arrogance  demoted to liars & cheaters . I will never feel sorry for them & after my visit there I'm happy knowing just how miserable this is for them they have lost something that can never be regained IMO there honor & pride .

Wow....ok..thats pretty strong feelings. I would say this is ONLY football...a game...but I sense that this means a whole lot more to you so I think my words will be wasted. In your case I guess congratulations would be more appropriate then. Dance my friend...this is the moment you have been waiting oh so long for. I hope its everything you've always dreamed of!

[buccolts]

Just got done watching inside the NFL they had 2 former Patriot players on discussing this issue, Why are they putting this on the colts organization for balls being underdeflated at halftime when did the colts became under investigation for rules violation and also talking about the AFCG as if it was going to change the outcome by saying if the patriots played the colts 10 times they would of beat them 8 out of the 10. Bashing the NFL for hiring Wells to do a independent investagation and they of hired a outside source to investagate. Am I wrong here if everyone would of come clean in the first place when asked about we would not be talking about this today and going on with the rookie camp. Asking again was their reports stating the patriots were tampering with footballs during the jets and the bears games and did the wells report not state some texts went back as far as may of 2014. Then answer me why in the world would does inside the NFL have 2 jacka cant say that talking as if the colts organization was wrong in asking the NFL for a even playing field

 

Yep, this is pretty perplexing.

Sounds like what the Patriots (past and present) wanted the Colts to do was approach the Patriots and whisper to them that 'hey, we know you're cheating, so please stop it'.  They see that as our fault. Though none of us know that THAT didn't take place anyway.

 

I guess they consider us 'enablers'.

[dgambill]

Way back in January I had a statistic that compared Law Firm, Welker, Amendola, Lafell, Blount, and Woodhead during their careers as Pats vs elsewhere and the touch to fumble ratio severely is more advantageous as a member of the Pats.

Could it be because NE is a well coached team....very disciplined....I mean the teams at the top I would consider well coached and those at the bottom like TB etc are not. Not everything can be directly attributed. Perhaps its a small advantage...I don't think there is really a way to tell how much an advantage they got...or how many games...as it is though I hardly think we can just chalk up all the Pats success to this minor offense. Thats just ignoring the fact they still are full of great players and coaches and execute a game plan pretty much better than any team in my lifetime.

[buccolts]

Just wow. Would you care to elaborate? I would assume you are talking about the word "man". So tell me, do you think any "women" ever worked for...

 

International Longshoremen's Association

 

I am speaking for Buccolts, but I believe his sig was dual gender. 

 

Yep, the spirit of it is 'man' as in 'mankind'.

[ReMeDy]

that goes for the rest of the team too

Could it be because NE is a well coached team....very disciplined....

 

 

I wish BenJarvus Green-Ellis could rejoin the Pats, so we'd have a comparison to work from. Before joining the Bengals, he had ZERO fumbles in his entire Patriots career, then as soon as he joined the Bengals, he had three fumbles within two weeks. Something's changed? Yea, I'd say... the FOOTBALL changed, because the Bengals actually play within the rules!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1354195-benjarvus-green-ellis-with-3-fumbles-in-2-weeks-whats-changed

 

This is why deflate-gate doesn't compare to other scandals, like Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong, because a deflated football helps the ENTIRE offense, from QB's throwing, to HB's cradling the ball to avoid fumbles, and to receivers catching it. Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong were only individuals.

 

Btw, I'm not hating on BenJarvus. His job is to carry the rock. It's not his fault if the rock was secretly deflated without his knowledge.

[csmopar]

Just curious. is it possible for fans who spent a lot of money to watch a game get their money back from the athletes who now have it if they win a class action lawsuit claiming fraud?

Maybe Brady's attorney has advised him to not admit to anything.

No but I did listen to an attorney today say that Brady could face federal charges for bribery but I think that's a stretch

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Wow....ok..thats pretty strong feelings. I would say this is ONLY football...a game...but I sense that this means a whole lot more to you so I think my words will be wasted. In your case I guess congratulations would be more appropriate then. Dance my friend...this is the moment you have been waiting oh so long for. I hope its everything you've always dreamed of!

 

 

I don''t dance or dream about the Patriots but yes obviously  do  take pleasure in there discomfort . 

 

If the shoe was on the other foot I have no doubt how the Patriot fans would react .

[wig]

Yeah, I think winning the Super Bowl was paramount. He had to do that and he did. The rest of this is just noise at this point. Honestly,  I don't know how he blocked all that out and played the way he did. What is going on right now is only a tenth of how bad it was the two weeks up to the bowl. But that win - the most important of his career for many reasons - not just air pressure, but the 10 year gap, coming so close and falling short two other times, and getting #4. Really full circle in so many ways. The most satisfying win as a fan of the team and him. I think that is why he looked so relaxed last night at Salem State despite the swirling media. He does not have the SB to play this time.

 

I don't know what the significance of his 4th illegitimate SB is?

[amfootball]

You have every right to this opinion...as far as your own view. Heck, you can even make a guess that most pats fans will feel this same way. But I....(notice how I said "I" which doesn't make it appear like I am speaking for the majority) believe that his legacy very well may be altered by a massive group of NFL fans. You can hope all you want, but no definitive statements by you or any other fan will protect his legacy from the dangers it now faces. Good luck with your hopes. 

I guess time will tell but I will say this for sure, winning that Super Bowl was paramount for his legacy overall. Not just deflategate but his entire career. If there is some tarnish from the air pressure thing then so be it, most athletes pick up some tarnish along the way but honestly I don't think he cares. What he has achieved is unbelievable is this era of FA/cap and at age 37 on top.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Could it be because NE is a well coached team....very disciplined....I mean the teams at the top I would consider well coached and those at the bottom like TB etc are not. Not everything can be directly attributed. Perhaps its a small advantage...I don't think there is really a way to tell how much an advantage they got...or how many games...as it is though I hardly think we can just chalk up all the Pats success to this minor offense. Thats just ignoring the fact they still are full of great players and coaches and execute a game plan pretty much better than any team in my lifetime.

 

they had to cheat many times & continued from 2000 - 2015 how can you say it perhaps was a small advantage ?

 

my opinion is if there was no or just a lil advantage it would not span the entire career of Belicheck .

 

Your welcome to your opinion as a Colts fan I don't agree with anything in your post  .

 

If you want to give the Patriots a free pass its all good . I personally have no use for liar a man is only as good as his word .

[NFLfan]

Its just my simple opinion...my views aren't any better than anyone elses. I can understand the outrage to a certain extent...but then it goes too far....like 40 pages too far lol. Most threads are only a couple pages on most boards besides ours. It doesn't need to be this big conspiracy and doesn't need to be some big black ops secret. This isn't watergate...its a football...a player trying to alter the pressure...and its a game...a kids game.

I do think the Colts have a great chance this season....but I rule nothing out that night against NE....I am going to be holding my breath....and without this incident I would say the motivation would have all been on our side for that game....now its on theirs...and even if they fall early because of a possible suspension...that night would be their SB in my opinion.

This thread is much longer than a Deflategate thread on another board because there are so many Pats fans who post here. Most, not all, deny the allegations and accuse the NFL, the referees, the Colts organization, and even the weather for what happened. So, of course, there will be a lot of back and forth between Pats fans and others.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I guess time will tell but I will say this for sure, winning that Super Bowl was paramount for his legacy overall. Not just deflategate but his entire career. If there is some tarnish from the air pressure thing then so be it, most athletes pick up some tarnish along the way but honestly I don't think he cares. What he has achieved is unbelievable is this era of FA/cap and at age 37 on top.

 

 

Finally 46 pages later true honesty . A feeling all the Patriot Nation share its not how you do it as long as you win .

[dgambill]

 

 

 

I wish BenJarvus Green-Ellis could rejoin the Pats, so we'd have a comparison to work from. Before joining the Bengals, he had ZERO fumbles in his entire Patriots career, then as soon as he joined the Bengals, he had three fumbles within two weeks. Something's changed? Yea, I'd say... the FOOTBALL changed, because the Bengals actually play within the rules!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1354195-benjarvus-green-ellis-with-3-fumbles-in-2-weeks-whats-changed

 

This is why deflate-gate doesn't compare to other scandals, like Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong, because a deflated football helps the ENTIRE offense, from QB's throwing, to HB's cradling the ball to avoid fumbles, and to receivers catching it. Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong were only individuals.

 

Btw, I'm not hating on BenJarvus. His job is to carry the rock. It's not his fault if the rock was secretly deflated without his knowledge.

 

Or maybe Bill puts extra emphasis on ball control/security. Practices it....preaches it...and when someone does screw up they are in the dog house so far they may land on the waiver wire. Lets face it....people can be scared into greatness.....ask many Bob Knight's teams. He was a big proponent of preparation, great coaching, and motivation through fear. Also works in the Army. Could there be a correlation...sure...but I think this stuff just like spygate is an excuse for people to dismiss EVERYTHING the Pats and Brady have accomplished and to me that is just nonsense. I can't stand to lose to them anymore than anyone else but I respect how well they play and execute the game. They've cut some corners and thats sad...they do have a legacy of bending the rules...but so did the Oakland Raiders in the 70s...and nobody is trying to take their championships away. Are they a clean team...nope...but that doesn't mean they still didn't accomplish what they have. I'd rather win the right way....its very satisfying...but I can't take away what this team and qb has accomplished. Its your right to chalk their success up to cheating if you like.

 

This is the equivilant of Jerry Rice using stickem...he did it...he admitted...it broke the rules...and yet I don't think anyone disagrees he is still the greatest receiver of all time...its just dissappointing...but doesn't change he still cheated to get an advantage. Why is there not 50 pages over what he did....yeah...he isn't a Patriot. I don't think either had a great effect on the football field...probably more a psychological thing than any..comfort. Doesn't make it right but nobody is trying to take his records away or SBs or legacy. I don't see the difference. I think both are wrong...but neither are career altering issues.