DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[Jason_]

 I'm willing to forgive if he is to ask.

 

Well, first he has to ask and that hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's going to anytime soon.  Second, if he'd have come out from the very beginning, admitted wrongdoing, apologized and then asked for forgiveness...that's one thing.  That ship, however, has sailed.  He's had the opportunity to confess and apologize but he did not.  He probably will only after his punishment has been handed down and the appeal is denied at which time it will be way too little, way too late.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I think the most interesting part of this is yet to come in terms of the punishment and how much Brady fights it.

 

No IMO its the actions of everyone from the organization & its fans that are the most interesting truly amazing the depth to which people will sink .

 

1 lil lie turned nothing into something , The Patriots are like Barney Fife with only 1 bullet they shot there selves in the foot ..

[Superman]

According to The Herd, The rule where teams get their own game day footballs is a fairly recent rule. Peyton Manning was one of the players that pushed for the current rule, he mentioned that Brady also was for the rule change.

 

Yeah, there's no secret there. They lobbied a bunch of QBs at the time -- many of whom are no longer in the league -- and got the rule changed. Now teams can break their footballs in and use them during the game.

 

Anyone who thinks there's something wrong with that has never tried to handle a brand new regulation football. I think it's pretty crazy that they use brand new K-balls. 

[pgt_rob]

Exactly! I think a lot of people on here should do just that...I can't see how what happened deserves the outrage and fake indignation that is on the board. Fine him, suspend him, whatever...and lets move on and play football.

 

I'm all for moving on from this whole thing. It's dragged on long enough. But it's not like it's just this board, front page of NFL.com, ESPN, etc all plastered with it too.

[Warhorse]

Patriots against the Raiders.....how would Tom have fared in the snow without deflated balls?

 

Sorry, but this is exactly why this issue is waaayyyyy bigger than some Pats fans hope it is.

 

This is not about whether or not these actions changed the outcome of the Pats/Colts game in the PO's. It is so far in the rearview mirror, it is nearly unrecognizable.

 

 

But in the end, I hope for one thing and one thing only. I don't care whether it's fines, suspensions, loss of picks, or anything else. I want the Patriot "way" to stand for manipulation, not quality. That said, there are likely plenty of Pats players who did not or would not be a part of this since Belligamesmanship took over. There has to be. 

[dgambill]

I will give you an example of absurd so you will know what it actually means.

It's absurd to use the egos of BB and Brady to try and make a point but then ignore those egos altogether when they no longer support your argument.

Pretend for a moment that BB had nothing to do with any of this. Do you really believe he is going to forgive Brady for what he did and lying about it?

Nah. If Bill didn't know then he and Brady are finished.

And even if Brady did play the entire season, he is not throwing for 50 plus touchdowns this year. He is not good enough to do that.

I disagree...Brady is good enough...he has done it before...and no I think Belicheck and Brady have a much deeper relationship than that. Belicheck has brought in many players with worse issues. This isn't a divorcable offense in my opinion. I think they can get past this. Brady has no history of bad behavior...they share 4 SBs together...its like being married for over a decade and having 4 kids together and your wife makes a dumb mistake and kisses someone....and denies it...surely you work that out considering all the goodwill you have built up....thats my analogy.

[amfootball]

No IMO its the actions of everyone from the organization & its fans that are the most interesting truly amazing the depth to which people will sink .

 

1 lil lie turned nothing into something , The Patriots are like Barney Fife with only 1 bullet they shot there selves in the foot ..

I guess that is your take but I am just as horrified at those outside of NE that are comparing this to Nixon and Lance Armstrong. As with everything, the extremes run wild and are a sad commentary on the human condition.

[Gramz]

Ah. No I wasn't calling you a liar. Just that not wanting to believe negative things about your team/players isn't limited to just Pats fans.

And yeah, I post at the planet so I know how angry they are.

But be honest, if the roles were reversed here how many of us would just automatically believe that Manning/Luck did something like this?

I would "want" to believe them.

I do think I could be objective enough, however, and reading what I read in this report I would be just one thing and that would be disappointed. Extremely disappointed, and I would more than likely sulk in silence.

[jvan1973]

I guess that is your take but I am just as horrified at those outside of NE that are comparing this to Nixon and Lance Armstrong. As with everything, the extremes run wild and are a sad commentary on the human condition.

just like in those cases, the coverup is the bigger issue.

[Dustin]

Brady's lawyer is just as pathetic as ole Cheatin' Tom himself. He actually implied the league is rigged and set this up for the Pats to fail. 

[southwest1]

Last night, I read the entire Ted Well report. I also saw Tom Brady speak briefly last night on TV at that previously arranged speaking engagement function. Here are my thoughts:

 

--Tom Brady's agent needs to shut the hades up. The guy is being paid by Tom Brady. Is he an expert on air pressure, NFL rules & regulations, & why didn't your client relinquish his phone to Mr. Wells to exonerate his name? Ah genius, & I use the term loosely, neither Ted Wells or Roger Goodell  have a vested interest in falsely creating a report designed to take down a future HOF QB in light of Ray Rice & Adrian Peterson egg on the NFL's face scandals sir. Do you realize how stupid you are sounding right now sir? 

 

--The league is really only saying or the report rather that Jim McNally, Patriots Locker Room attendant, had the AFC Championship Game balls in his possession, entered a bathroom alone for over a minute, locked the door, & later took the bag of footballs on the field without referee Walt Anderson's permission. No direct evidence puts a needle in Brady's hands deflating footballs. However, McNally called himself the "Deflator" & that presumably in return for doing this activity Brady gave Mr. McNally autographed footballs & jerseys signed by Brady. 

 

--If I was a HOF QB & I was accused of breaking a well established rule, darn it I'd pound my fist & say defiantly "I'm not a cheater. I am a man of integrity. I respect the rules of this game & I will defend my innocence with my last dying breath." Not smirk, ask the friendly audience venue for support, & not turn the gathering into a pep rally. Or I would say "You know, I made a mistake. I need to own up to my role in this shady activity & I need to apologize to the organization & fans across the globe." Do that & I will forgive Brady eventually. 

 

--After reading that report, it's clear to me that Brady turned a blind eye to deflating balls in order to have plausible deniability at his disposal. All that text traffic between McNally & Brady proves that Brady knew what in the hades was going on. To me, it's not the infraction that ticks me off; It the effort he went to & continues to go to perpetuate this notion that codes of conduct don't apply to a HOF QB. NE must be fined heavily, lose a 2nd round draft pick, & Tom must be suspended for 4 games minimum. 

 

--If Luck or Peyton Manning, 2 guys I revere were accused of the exact same violation; I would demand the same punishment by the way since the league goes to great pains to inform all 32 teams what the rules & regulations are. I view Deflate Gate as a separate incident & the SpyGate Scandal has no bearing on the punishment here IMO. 

 

--Don't use Jim McNally as the primary scapegoat here NE fans or the fact that the infraction seems minor at face value. No, what matters here is that all tested Colts footballs met psi requirements, environmental conditions did not result in Patriots deflated balls, & coverups will bring you down faster than just manning up & telling the truth. 

 

--Are NE's 4 SB Championships now tainted? No, because air pressure won't win games or accumulate titles execution & sideline adjustments do. However, Brady's reputation has taken a huge symbolic hit that won't be easy to recover from. Brady is still 1 hades of a QB, but he knew what Jim McNally was doing & all their text conversions are not about a good friend's upcoming wedding nuptials. Please...Tommy knew what was going down & there's no way Mr. McNally did this football deflation on a whim without Brady's consent or approval. Come on now. 

 

--I am really disturbed by how Brady's smiling demeanor blows this psi scandal off as haters gotta hate man mentality. Are you freaking kidding me man?! Sigh...I'm really disappointed in you Brady. Your reputation is under attack & all you can say in "Not everybody is going to like me or the team I play for?" Seriously? 

 

--Brady participated in a scheme with 2 other people from the Patriots organization to release air from sanctioned Wilson footballs & you can just laugh this episode off. If you lie about this, what will you do when it comes to something of a grand & elaborate nature Tom? Own you role in this debackle & the scandal disappears, but play dumb & a dark cloud will linger forever around your NFL reputation & legacy Tom Brady.

 

--What's better Tom to be viewed as willing to win at any cost or incompetent & blissfully ignorant? Spygate, Inactive player routes on the field of play, & depleted air pressure...No other franchise gets associated with repeatedly playing fast & loose with the rules over & over again other than NE...Are you being unfairly picked on or do you need to refrain from shady NFL practices? Hmmm....At some point take ownership of your own team's actions & you can begin to move past these speed bumps. I'm just saying...

 

I like Brady & even though NE routinely kicks my beloved Colts caboose in the Playoffs; Brady lied about his knowledge of deflate gate & until he owns up to his responsibility in allowing this to happen & extend this absurd lie I cannot forgive him. Brady didn't deflate the balls himself; He just remained silent which is even worse IMO. Take responsibility & this scandal begins to fade; Deny it & your reputation is tarnished forever. 

[Btown_Colt]

Ah. No I wasn't calling you a liar. Just that not wanting to believe negative things about your team/players isn't limited to just Pats fans.

And yeah, I post at the planet so I know how angry they are.

But be honest, if the roles were reversed here how many of us would just automatically believe that Manning/Luck did something like this?

 I can't speak for everyone else but I would. I surely wouldn't be on a patriots forum trying arguing that they aren't really reading what they think they are reading or that the report doesn't prove anything. 

 

If BB didn't know this was going on, then he ought to be pretty upset right now. And if he has any type of integrity in him, whatever punishment Brady receives, BB should double. I know if I was the head coach and my star QB went behind my back and pulled something like this, my punishment would far out weigh the NFL's. 

[dgambill]

He deserves nothing if he can't be honest .  We are born in sin so whos gonna throw it ?

Exactly...what I'm saying is lets take a deep breath...we don't need to be judge prosecuter and jury. The NFL will handle it...and no..if he never owns up then yeah I can understand you might not cut him some slack but I think thats just a matter of time.

[Jaric]

I would "want" to believe them.

I do think I could be objective enough, however, and reading what I read in this report I would be just one thing and that would be disappointed. Extremely disappointed, and I would more than likely sulk in silence.

like I said, you could show me video of Andrew strangling hobos and I wouldn't believe.

[dgambill]

40+ pages doesn't equal outrage. 40+ pages equals interest.

I know...but its mostly outrage supes...if you haven't read most of it. Its a chance for most to stand on their soapbox and preach....not all...but a lot.

[Superman]

I know...but its mostly outrage supes...if you haven't read most of it. Its a chance for most to stand on their soapbox and preach....not all...but a lot.

 

It's mostly arguing. I wouldn't classify 90% of the posts as outrage. 

[GoPats]

I would "want" to believe them.

I do think I could be objective enough, however, and reading what I read in this report I would be just one thing and that would be disappointed. Extremely disappointed, and I would more than likely sulk in silence.

 

You just described the last three days of my life. 

[wig]

I can't believe the amount of nonsense that comes from one person.

Someone please ban me and save me the aggravation.

I dont seem to have the discipline to stay away on my own.

 

I am all smiles, as I'm confident in which side will get the last laugh.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Ah. No I wasn't calling you a liar. Just that not wanting to believe negative things about your team/players isn't limited to just Pats fans.

And yeah, I post at the planet so I know how angry they are.

But be honest, if the roles were reversed here how many of us would just automatically believe that Manning/Luck did something like this?

 

Nothing's automatic but

 

There is a huge difference I except facts & I'm not delusional .

 

I was not a Brady hater as I stated early in this thread .  In fact me & am had this lil conversation . I after years of the rivalry developed respect for Tom Brady & the hoodie based on there ability to play a 60 minute game .

 

Always ready always tough . My back & forths for many years always concerned the Patriot fans & there opinion of 18 watching those games have always been tough .

 

 

Infact until this report the respect is immense unlike Patriot fans I'm not a rabid hater in the earlier interviews I had no reason to doubt him & honestly would have believed it was the hoodies fault long before I would have pointed my finger at a fellow Californian .

 

I watched a 6'th round pick do better than a first pick , I always felt from day 1 Peyton was special , I had come to the conclusion that Tom Brady was every bit as special ,

 

I had excepted this many years ago I'm disappointed now to realize I was a fool .

.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Exactly! I think a lot of people on here should do just that...I can't see how what happened deserves the outrage and fake indignation that is on the board. Fine him, suspend him, whatever...and lets move on and play football.

 

If you think it's blown out of proportion here, you should go check out the comments section on nfl.com. There's a guy (Boston born & bred) that literally says everyone outside of Boston is an uneducated loser, and that we (people that don't live in Boston) will never be as good or as smart as them.

 

He does give a nod to coastal states on the west coast though. But everything and everyone in between is just a "waste of space," as he so eloquently put it.

[OffensivelyPC]

Well, first he has to ask and that hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's going to anytime soon.  Second, if he'd have come out from the very beginning, admitted wrongdoing, apologized and then asked for forgiveness...that's one thing.  That ship, however, has sailed.  He's had the opportunity to confess and apologize but he did not.  He probably will only after his punishment has been handed down and the appeal is denied at which time it will be way too little, way too late.

You had me until the bit about the ship having sailed on forgiveness.  I get why he wouldn't ask for apologies now.  It implies guilt.  For legal purposes, no punishment has been levied, so until that plays out, he won't be asking for forgiveness.  It would make him a better person for it, but I'm not going to hold it against him.  At this point, at least in my eyes, he's already guilty of having lied and attempted to cover that lie up.  Forgiveness of that shouldn't be an issue, especially in light of all the good things he has done for the sport of football, community outreach, and, assuming he is punished, serves his time.  So if he asks the public for forgiveness, whenever that time comes, sure, no problem Tom.  But what I will not do, is give his accomplishments the same credibility after teh dust has settled that I once gave before this all started.  He's forever lost his integrity and my respect, and that is one ship that has sailed.  

[GoPats]

like I said, you could show me video of Andrew strangling hobos and I wouldn't believe.

 

"C'mon it's just a hobo."

 

"Guy probably wanted to end it all anyway."

 

"Maybe he was just trying to massage a bad knot out of his neck." 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I guess that is your take but I am just as horrified at those outside of NE that are comparing this to Nixon and Lance Armstrong. As with everything, the extremes run wild and are a sad commentary on the human condition.

Nothing wrong with comparing 3 liars .

[OffensivelyPC]

Brady's lawyer is just as pathetic as ole Cheatin' Tom himself. He actually implied the league is rigged and set this up for the Pats to fail. 

I really just don't get why this is such a sticking point for Patriot fans that somehow means they were duped into cheating.  It's like they expect the league to prevent themselves from cheating.  Here's a better idea, have the moral compass to just not attempt to cheat in the first place and you don't have to worry about needing a baby sitter to make sure you're doing what you should already have been doing in the first place?

[Dustin]

Yee BTFO by Bill Polian

 

Kolber on Yee: "He sounds awfully optimistic." Polian: "He sounds awfully disingenuous, too." Dayum!

— mike freeman (@mikefreemanNFL)

May 8, 2015

 

@mikefreemanNFL

Kolber on Yee: "He sounds awfully optimistic."

 

Polian: "He sounds awfully disingenuous, too." Dayum!

[dgambill]

Well, first he has to ask and that hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's going to anytime soon.  Second, if he'd have come out from the very beginning, admitted wrongdoing, apologized and then asked for forgiveness...that's one thing.  That ship, however, has sailed.  He's had the opportunity to confess and apologize but he did not.  He probably will only after his punishment has been handed down and the appeal is denied at which time it will be way too little, way too late.

Thats the thing about forgiving. What makes the act of forgiving so special is doing it unconditionally....I'm willing to do that...whenever someone asks...if they do it with a contrite spirit. Thats just me though...

[Jason_]

You had me until the bit about the ship having sailed on forgiveness. I get why he wouldn't ask for apologies now. It implies guilt. For legal purposes, no punishment has been levied, so until that plays out, he won't be asking for forgiveness. It would make him a better person for it, but I'm not going to hold it against him. At this point, at least in my eyes, he's already guilty of having lied and attempted to cover that lie up. Forgiveness of that shouldn't be an issue, especially in light of all the good things he has done for the sport of football, community outreach, and, assuming he is punished, serves his time. So if he asks the public for forgiveness, whenever that time comes, sure, no problem Tom. But what I will not do, is give his accomplishments the same credibility after teh dust has settled that I once gave before this all started. He's forever lost his integrity and my respect, and that is one ship that has sailed.

It would have been one thing if his official stance on the issue from the beginning had been something to the effect of "I am not going to make any comment until the investigation has completed" or something along those lines. That would have been a different situation imo.

However, instead of that, he outright lied and denied any wrongdoing. That, imo, is when the ship sailed for asking for forgiveness. An apology means nothing to me if you first lied and denied doing anything wrong and only apologize after being proven guilty.

[GoPats]

I've been very honest and objective about this, but just have to point out...

 

It's premature to crap on Brady's legacy at this point. You can call him a cheater, a liar, whatever, but if the Patriots come out next season, go 12-4 again, and make a deep run or maybe even get to another SB, then how much did deflated balls have to do with anything? 

 

If they come out and go 8-8, different story.

 

This is what happened with Spygate. People said they would suck once the league took Belichick's cameras away. How did that work out? 

 

Be objective. Be reasonable. Wait and watch to see what happens. If Brady has a career year in 2015, with new rules and "clean" footballs, a lot of you are going to still hate him anyway. 

[Jason_]

Thats the thing about forgiving. What makes the act of forgiving so special is doing it unconditionally....I'm willing to do that...whenever someone asks...if they do it with a contrite spirit. Thats just me though...

And that works for some people and that's fine. Personally though an apology doesn't mean a thing if it's not sincere and there's no way I can consider it sincere if you lie first and only apologize after being proven guilty.

"Did you do it?"

"No of course not"

"we now have evidence that you did in fact do it "

"Ok you got me. I did do it. I'm sorry"

Yeah that means nothing to me.

[PeterBowman]

Yee BTFO by Bill Polian

 

Kolber on Yee: "He sounds awfully optimistic." Polian: "He sounds awfully disingenuous, too." Dayum!

— mike freeman (@mikefreemanNFL)

May 8, 2015

 

@mikefreemanNFL

Kolber on Yee: "He sounds awfully optimistic."

 

Polian: "He sounds awfully disingenuous, too." Dayum!

I think most at ESPN want so badly for nothing to come of this for the Pats.

[OffensivelyPC]

It would have been one thing if his official stance on the issue from the beginning had been something to the effect of "I am not going to make any comment until the investigation has completed" or something along those lines. That would have been a different situation imo.

However, instead of that, he outright lied and denied any wrongdoing. That, imo, is when the ship sailed for asking for forgiveness. An apology means nothing to me if you first lied and denied doing anything wrong and only apologize after being proven guilty.

And I suppose that's fair.  I guess I don't have any right or standing to tell someone else how to forgive.  I think your feelings on the topic are shared by many, and it doesn't make them wrong.  When trust in someone, especially their own moral integrity is compromised, I can see why that person would not want to forgive.  It's not how I'd approach it, but I can't fault anyone for it either.

[wig]

I've been very honest and objective about this, but just have to point out...

 

It's premature to crap on Brady's legacy at this point. You can call him a cheater, a liar, whatever, but if the Patriots come out next season, go 12-4 again, and make a deep run or maybe even get to another SB, then how much did deflated balls have to do with anything? 

 

If they come out and go 8-8, different story.

 

This is what happened with Spygate. People said they would suck once the league took Belichick's cameras away. How did that work out? 

 

Be objective. Be reasonable. Wait and watch to see what happens. If Brady has a career year in 2015, with new rules and "clean" footballs, a lot of you are going to still hate him anyway. 

 

Doesn't matter if he's still good.  His legacy will always include being a cheater.

[garydellabate]

I guess that is your take but I am just as horrified at those outside of NE that are comparing this to Nixon and Lance Armstrong. As with everything, the extremes run wild and are a sad commentary on the human condition.

It's basically the same in some aspect for each. Nixon did his business in an election he would have won, just like Brady would have against the colts (although you can say if he's done it before - like the week before - it could have been a loss). Armstrong had a lot of titles that are now tainted, like Tom Brady's.

 

A-Rod lied and lied and eventually came clean and served his ridiculously long sentence for something many players do. Brady is still lying after getting caught doing something illegal only he has been orchestrating habitually. We will know the full truth one day whether Brady admits it or not. McNally hasn't gone to espn.......yet.

 

You here sticking up for him over 40 pages is a sad commentary on human condition, you should join the mass legion of logic-less fans all over twitter and barstool sports or new england's forum so you can try to ignore facts to poke more holes in "the report" before telling us how sad we are for comparing very comparable tragic figures.

[Warhorse]

But be honest, if the roles were reversed here how many of us would just automatically believe that Manning/Luck did something like this?

That depends on the time frame. If Brady would have been questioned before any of the past manipulation and what some call "gamesmanship" had occurred involving the Pats over the last 13 years or so, I believe I would have sided with Brady. I can't promise that because it didn't occur. At this time I can say that I would bet my worth that Luck is incapable of this, but that doesn't mean that view cannot be changed. 

 

To be clear, after finding out about Manning and what he did to that nurse with his umm....torso, I did not feel the same about him. Had an accusation about Manning have occurred after I found out about that, I would not have blindly believed in him. This is truth.

[wig]

Not that I necessarily blame him.  When you're brought up in a cheating culture, it's going to rub off on you.

[Superman]

I've been very honest and objective about this, but just have to point out...

 

It's premature to crap on Brady's legacy at this point. You can call him a cheater, a liar, whatever, but if the Patriots come out next season, go 12-4 again, and make a deep run or maybe even get to another SB, then how much did deflated balls have to do with anything? 

 

If they come out and go 8-8, different story.

 

This is what happened with Spygate. People said they would suck once the league took Belichick's cameras away. How did that work out? 

 

Be objective. Be reasonable. Wait and watch to see what happens. If Brady has a career year in 2015, with new rules and "clean" footballs, a lot of you are going to still hate him anyway. 

 

They went ten years with no championships, and only won again once they started deflating footballs... ;)

 

I will say, though, people don't dislike Brady because of how he plays. By the same token, people aren't going to not dislike him because of how he plays. 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Exactly...what I'm saying is lets take a deep breath...we don't need to be judge prosecuter and jury. The NFL will handle it...and no..if he never owns up then yeah I can understand you might not cut him some slack but I think thats just a matter of time.

 

Its the NFL's baby of course judge prosecuter  jury nah just fans who have been bottled up for months happy to have an opportunity to talk about something that had been denied to us for months .

 

Now that the report is here we got plenty to say .

 

At every opportunity to come clean Tom Brady has chosen lie or not answer or just say there are those out there that don't like me .

 

Lies & denials turned a mole hill into a mountain .

[Superman]

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Sources-Patriots-Concerned-About-6-8-Game-Suspension-for-Tom-Brady-303099401.html

 

New England's Mike Giardi says Patriots sources he's spoken with are concerned about a suspension of as long as six to eight games, which would seriously impact the team's chances of defending its Super Bowl title.

A report by the Miami Herald's Armando Salguero said the league is weighing a suspension that could last up to an entire season.

 

 

Oh.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

I've been very honest and objective about this, but just have to point out...

 

It's premature to crap on Brady's legacy at this point. You can call him a cheater, a liar, whatever, but if the Patriots come out next season, go 12-4 again, and make a deep run or maybe even get to another SB, then how much did deflated balls have to do with anything? 

 

If they come out and go 8-8, different story.

 

This is what happened with Spygate. People said they would suck once the league took Belichick's cameras away. How did that work out? 

 

Be objective. Be reasonable. Wait and watch to see what happens. If Brady has a career year in 2015, with new rules and "clean" footballs, a lot of you are going to still hate him anyway. 

Edit:I forgot to say right up front - I don't hate Brady and I understand your emotional vantage point.

 

Except for one thing.  And this is where the "Nixonian" comparison comes in.  They didn't have to cheat.  They didn't have to break the rules.  Their character (or fear or lack of character) drove them to it and that's just plain sick...  That's not competition - that's something deeply wrong at the core of their being.  

[wig]

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Sources-Patriots-Concerned-About-6-8-Game-Suspension-for-Tom-Brady-303099401.html

 

 

Oh.

 

Same guy on the radio yesterday said he didn't think Brady should get punished at all, so we know he's not pulling for a suspension.  Clarity on what he personally thinks and if there is a bias.