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Colts select Phillip Dorsett 29 [Mega Merge]


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Only time will tell about this pick. We all seen how bad our receiving corps were last season when Wayne was not 100%. Dorsett might be a good return guy also. Cribbs will be gone. Dorsett will have 1 or 2 years being mentored by Johnson and TY and that is not a bad thing. Swoops and Whalen are career back ups so they are not a big deal. I am not going to be all negative because of this pick. Grigson must have had him on his board as the BPA and stayed true to his board. I thought Dorsett would have already been gone when the Colts picked so it is what it is.

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Question is about those defesive guy who were there Is does or did any of them have an elite ability or talent that you just don't find very often. Something that seperates them? Because thats what Dorsett had. Elite level speed with above average catching skills and agility. And can plant his foot and run routes. And he's a tough kid who isn't afraid of contact and is a high character guy. He has a rare combination of traits

 

The answer is none of them did. Eddie Goldman and Malcom Brown would both have made everyone here giddy, but neither of them are "special" prospects, nor do I think either of them were BPA. Landon Collins would have checked off the biggest need on our roster, but he wasn't BPA and half the board would have melted down. Clemmings isn't really a top 40 player, despite playing a position of need, nor is he a great fit for our blocking scheme. I could go on.

 

At least Dorsett has elite potential. And I don't like the pick. I like the player, but I think we should have done something different.

 

Perfect world, we trade down. Problem is it's likely that the phone wasn't ringing, at least not with anything of reasonable value. Almost no one made any trades in the first round. So we could have moved back to, say #34 with the Bucs -- when Brown would have been gone, obviously -- and probably not have gotten fair value for #29. Goldman could go #33 (who knows?). I don't think the value was on the board, and while it's an assumption, I doubt there were any reasonable offers for our pick. So Grigson picked BPA.

 

There's only two players I really would have wanted at #29, and neither of them are good values (IMO). Kendricks and Phillips, both of whom are probably going to go in the 40-50 range. We can still get either of them, technically. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

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Take a look at Kevin Bowen's latest status update:

Grigson says when they looked up at that board they were looking for a “blue trait”. Dorsett’s speed stuck out.

 

The way that's worded, it suggests to me that they didn't just take the highest ranked guy on the board.  They went looking for someone who stood out to them...or had a trait that stuck out to them?  I don't know what a blue trait is.  If you take BPA, you don't need to go "looking for a 'blue trait'".  That makes me think they didn't take BPA or they weren't going off of BPA, but rather looked for a guy who had a specific trait that stood out to them.  I may be reading too closely into it, but that's just how it comes across to me

 

You are.

 

Ever heard of a blue chipper? It refers to a player who has elite characteristics. That's what they're talking about.

 

And in setting up their board, they put players they consider to be blue chippers ahead of players that don't have elite characteristics. It's easy to see why a potentially game-breaking WR would be ahead of two-down DL who can't rush the passer.

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Just for some perspective.. about this time last year some on the board were in disbelief that we drafted Mewhort when Louis Nix was still on the board.

Not to pick an argument with you, but the year before that, Rhodes was available and Grigson drafted Werner. Many on the board wanted Rhodes and now in hindsight, they were right and Grigson was wrong.
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You are.

 

Ever heard of a blue chipper? It refers to a player who has elite characteristics. That's what they're talking about.

 

And in setting up their board, they put players they consider to be blue chippers ahead of players that don't have elite characteristics. It's easy to see why a potentially game-breaking WR would be ahead of two-down DL who can't rush the passer.

I've heard of blue chip players, but never of blue traits.  It's also possible he meant blue as in fitting in with the Colts' culture.  I'm not in the draft room, so I can't say for sure.  But I've never heard the term "blue trait" be used.  Blue chip player, yes, but never blue trait.

 

coach chuck always says iron sharpens iron i cant wait for the TC battles the better the talent the more they're going to push each other to be better and practicing against Vontae will also make them better, we goin be cool grigs will make some god picks day 2 to calm people down

Coach Chuck also continued to give Wayne, Richardson, and Jon Harrison starts even though they were all clearly struggling.

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Funny how BPA is only argued when you take a player that you have no real need for. The GM, like ours just did, has to stand in front of the microphone and say, repeatedly, "we stuck to our board"... but in the same stupid breath say, "don't worry we have eight more picks to address our needs". So what happened to BPA?  So BPA in 1st round where there is the most talent, but target the less talented guys in the later rounds? Wow, sounds, like a plan... What if the BPA at the end of rd 2 is a WR? rd 3? Obvious that BPA only applies when everyone thinks you have made a boneheaded move and you have to defend yourself.

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I've heard of blue chip players, but never of blue traits.  It's also possible he meant blue as in fitting in with the Colts' culture.  I'm not in the draft room, so I can't say for sure.  But I've never heard the term "blue trait" be used.  Blue chip player, yes, but never blue trait.

 

Coach Chuck also continued to give Wayne, Richardson, and Jon Harrison starts even though they were all clearly struggling.

 

Blue chipper = blue traits = rare traits

 

Which is exactly what Grigson and Pagano said in their presser. Rare traits. 

 

I mean, you can continue to needle the Colts staff for using buzzwords, but I think the meaning in this case is very obvious. I won't talk about petty and cheap I think the critique is... 

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The answer is none of them did. Eddie Goldman and Malcom Brown would both have made everyone here giddy, but neither of them are "special" prospects, nor do I think either of them were BPA. Landon Collins would have checked off the biggest need on our roster, but he wasn't BPA and half the board would have melted down. Clemmings isn't really a top 40 player, despite playing a position of need, nor is he a great fit for our blocking scheme. I could go on.

At least Dorsett has elite potential. And I don't like the pick. I like the player, but I think we should have done something different.

Perfect world, we trade down. Problem is it's likely that the phone wasn't ringing, at least not with anything of reasonable value. Almost no one made any trades in the first round. So we could have moved back to, say #34 with the Bucs -- when Brown would have been gone, obviously -- and probably not have gotten fair value for #29. Goldman could go #33 (who knows?). I don't think the value was on the board, and while it's an assumption, I doubt there were any reasonable offers for our pick. So Grigson picked BPA.

There's only two players I really would have wanted at #29, and neither of them are good values (IMO). Kendricks and Phillips, both of whom are probably going to go in the 40-50 range. We can still get either of them, technically. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Yeah I wasn't hoping or really wanting Dorsett either. I was hoping for defense like just about everyone else. But when you step back and look at the player and his abilities and talent, you can see why we picked him. Definitely not a need but when it comes to overall value, he was it. Im not too upset though, plenty of picks left to address defense and good value left.

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Funny how BPA is only argued when you take a player that you have no real need for. The GM, like ours just did, has to stand in front of the microphone and say, repeatedly, "we stuck to our board"... but in the same stupid breath say, "don't worry we have eight more picks to address our needs". So what happened to BPA?  So BPA in 1st round where there is the most talent, but target the less talented guys in the later rounds? Wow, sounds, like a plan... What if the BPA at the end of rd 2 is a WR? rd 3? Obvious that BPA only applies when everyone thinks you have made a boneheaded move and you have to defend yourself.

 

 

"We stuck to our board" means just that.

 

"There are 8 more picks" means 'let's not pretend that there was only one chance to draft a defensive player.' 

 

I don't think Grigson and Pagano feel a need to defend their pick.

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They are talking about a rare trait that makes him stand out and seperates him. But more so than that with Dorsett is his combination of traits and skills that he has. The Elite speed, great hands, great elusivness and agility and can run decent routes. Plus he's a high Charachter guy and he more than willing and ready to work his butt off to improve and contribute.

The question then is, Did any if the defensive players available have rare skill, ability ir combination of the two that seperates them from any other player? The only elite level D linemen you could say was Shelton. What did Collins have that would seperate him from everyone else? The reason the Colts took this guy is his combination of ability and skills were very rare and something you just dont find too often. It seperated him from anyone else on the board.

 

In other words Dorsett is not a J.A.G(Just Another Guy) and most of those other guys were.  I can buy that

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I've heard of blue chip players, but never of blue traits.  It's also possible he meant blue as in fitting in with the Colts' culture.  I'm not in the draft room, so I can't say for sure.  But I've never heard the term "blue trait" be used.  Blue chip player, yes, but never blue trait.

 

Coach Chuck also continued to give Wayne, Richardson, and Jon Harrison starts even though they were all clearly struggling.

 

Grigson: 'He obviously has a blue trait. And we're looking at the board and it's is there anyone up there who has something special? And he obviously has that type of speed, game-breaker type speed...'

 

Listen to the presser. It's obvious what he means. Or don't.

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Just imagine Andrew Luck with two TYs to throw to.  The secondary can't shift coverage to one side, they have to cover the whole field.

 

Leaves the middle/underneath open for Johnson and the TEs, and maybe, just maybe we can run the ball effectively on a two deep safety defense.  It will be beautiful.

 

We can get guys to help in the trenches in later rounds, as well as safety help.  Plenty of big boys in this draft, not that many Dorsetts...

 

It's not the end of the world guys.  R E L A X

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I personally think that they saw him as the best player and couldn't pass on him. My sniffer tells me that they made a decision to snag a player for a good value and since other good players slipped past them at 29 they will likely trade up in the 2nd round to snag one of the players they initially would've selected at 29 had this WR not been there.

It will hopefully work out well for us I hope

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Isn't taking the BPA always talked up as the best way to draft rather than taking someone lower on your board because they fit a need?  Well, if that's the case, then you're going to have picks like this.  Better get used to it.  If the stars line up and the BPA also fills a position of need, you're lucky.

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Grigson: 'He obviously has a blue trait. And we're looking at the board and it's is there anyone up there who has something special? And he obviously has that type of speed, game-breaker type speed...'

Listen to the presser. It's obvious what he means. Or don't.

This quote screams offense, though, doesn't it? If you are looking for something special, a game breaker, it's usually an offensive player unless a Watt or Suh type of prospect is available.

If the defensive talent has to be that obvious, then anyone can be a GM. To build a solid defense you have to be able to distinguish the minute differences that can translate from a player being average to a stud, I.e. Werner. Werner is average at best. I am starting to think that Grigson is a heck of an offensive scout but not much of a GM.

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"We stuck to our board" means just that.

 

"There are 8 more picks" means 'let's not pretend that there was only one chance to draft a defensive player.' 

 

I don't think Grigson and Pagano feel a need to defend their pick.

Don't really square up with getting tougher this year, we're building the monster, we are all in this year, we'll fix the defense, no more Star Wars or whatever other little phrase they trot out when they can't defend the fact that we just got our butt kicked again by the Patriots and have them literally run us out of the playoffs..... call it what you want, it still makes no logical sense that your most valuable pick you just choose a name because they are at the top of your list, meanwhile in the lesser rounds when you are more likely to miss, then we will get serious about addressing needs.

 

BTW, isn't this the same kind of crap that people used to crucify Polian over. Always drafting offense when we desperately needed a defense... all those year of coming close, all those years of Peyton at QB with some crappy D, all those years of one and done... Heard the same thing, We drafted the best player available. Different GM, different voice, but same song, same lyrics. Pray it does not lead to the same results.

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Coach Chuck also continued to give Wayne, Richardson, and Jon Harrison starts even though they were all clearly struggling.

lol i know rite i didnt say i agreed with his decisions i was sayin he is right bout the better the player the more they will push the other players to try and take thier spot

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Hilton, Dorsett, and Moncrief will be the best trio of WR's. We won't be able to stop the run. We're going to have to score 35 points a game to win against elite teams.

35 against most teams. Patriots averaged over 40 points a game against us and the Steelers put up over 50. So I hope Dorsett is good for an additional 3-4 TDs per game to give us a chance against them.
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NEWSFLASH for everyone that hates our first round pick.  No matter who we draft/sign, we still have to compete against Bill Belichick.

 

Belichick is (probably) going to outcoach us no matter what.  We could have the most talented roster in the league and still lose to Belichick because (as much as I hate to say it) he is just that good of a coach.

 

Unless you want to pull a Bucs circa 2002 move and trade whatever it takes to the Patriots for Belichick to come be our coach, then get over it.

 

We have one of the most talented rosters in the league, largely due to Andrew Luck, and still get stomped by the Patriots.

 

Although... we've done it before (2006) and WILL do it again.  We will beat Belichick and get another Super Bowl.  He is human, and when he slips up, we will be there to take advantage.  Have faith and quit being so negative.

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This quote screams offense, though, doesn't it? If you are looking for something special, a game breaker, it's usually an offensive player unless a Watt or Suh type of prospect is available.

If the defensive talent has to be that obvious, then anyone can be a GM. To build a solid defense you have to be able to distinguish the minute differences that can translate from a player being average to a stud, I.e. Werner. Werner is average at best. I am starting to think that Grigson is a heck of an offensive scout but not much of a GM.

 

How do you translate "has something special" into an offensive minded quote? There are special pass rushers (I'm not a big fan, but if he were available, Dupree would have fit the bill). There are special coverage players who can shut down the best receiver on the field (Marcus Peters, for instance, but he probably wouldn't have been our pick due to his off the field stuff). I think Kendricks is a special prospect, and while I don't think he was BPA, I think he would have fit the description. 

 

I'm no scout, but it's my personal opinion that neither of the DL that everyone wanted have those special traits to be stud DL in the pros. I think they're both two-down linemen who can be moved off the ball in the run game and have a lot of work to do to hold up against pro blockers. I don't think either of them are good pass rushers. I mocked Goldman to us, and I think he'll be good, but not special. 

 

I think Phillip Dorsett is the future Antonio Brown. People have compared him to TY, and someone even asked Pagano and Grigson that tonight. But to me, Dorsett has better hands and is more shifty, has more wiggle. I was a TY fan before we drafted him, but I think Dorsett is a better prospect than Hilton was. So is he special? I think so.

 

Let's see what Grigson does the rest of the weekend. I don't like the pick, personally. I like the player, absolutely, and we'll all like having him as time goes on. But I think the best value would have been in trading back -- but that assumes there was a trade partner, which there very well may not have been. To me, Grigson is very much on the clock. This season is crucial for him. But I don't think his evaluation of the player in relation to who else was on the board is out of whack. I get the ranking.

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Don't really square up with getting tougher this year, we're building the monster, we are all in this year, we'll fix the defense, no more Star Wars or whatever other little phrase they trot out when they can't defend the fact that we just got our butt kicked again by the Patriots and have them literally run us out of the playoffs..... call it what you want, it still makes no logical sense that your most valuable pick you just choose a name because they are at the top of your list, meanwhile in the lesser rounds when you are more likely to miss, then we will get serious about addressing needs.

 

BTW, isn't this the same kind of crap that people used to crucify Polian over. Always drafting offense when we desperately needed a defense... all those year of coming close, all those years of Peyton at QB with some crappy D, all those years of one and done... Heard the same thing, We drafted the best player available. Different GM, different voice, but same song, same lyrics. Pray it does not lead to the same results.

 

So many extremes... I have no desire to address them all. 

 

I'll just say that good defensive players get drafted in all rounds. Your comment makes it seem like if they didn't use their first rounder on a defensive player, then they can't add good defensive players and aren't serious about drafting good defensive players.

 

I guess I'll also say that drafting for need is a bad idea. I've been saying it, and I've been offering the idea that Grigson would stick to his board. Overall, building a roster, that's the right way to draft, IMO. Everyone gets caught up in this "we need X, so we need to draft X in the first round," and realistically speaking, that's not how it works, nor should it. 

 

Just looked at Mayock's best available: Gregory (probably not an option), Goldman, Collins, Phillips, Harold, Rowe, Kendricks, Davis, Orchard, Diggy, Perryman, Jarrett, Bennett, Anderson, Flowers, Carter, Shaw, Campbell... nah, we can't improve the defense on Day 2. First round or nothin.

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I hated the idea at first but now I think it's smart... First off we don't have a set #4 receiver. I know we have carter but let's be honest no one would think twise on carter if his dad wasn't cris carter. We have seen nothing from him and don't even know if he'll make the team. Second, how likely is it that Ty aj and moncrief will all be healthy all 16 games? And third, if we are looking for the future we have our set 1 2 3 recevers for the next 5 or 6 years! I get that we don't exactly need him but he was the best player available and think in 2 years from now we will all love this pick!

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I love the fact that we finally have a dynamic KR/PR... when have the Colts really ever had that?  Definitely not in the Manning Era. Here is hoping to a phenomenal career.

 

the U has treated the Colts to some star players (Edge, Wayne -- add Andre and Gore after this year), hoping Dorsett can continue that tradition. Definitely one of the right schools to take someone from.

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I was hoping the Colts would take a WR, but I didn't think it would be in the first round. Love the pick though. I don't understand how people are saying this is not a position of need? Carter is unproven, jury still out on Moncrief, and Johnson is a semi question mark due to his age. As long as the Colts go mostly defense from here on out, it could still be a very good draft.

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Wow!! I don't think any of us saw that one coming and clearly no one is happy about it other then the FO and Phillip, but I bet you they make us believer by seasons end!!Go Colts. P. Dorsett keep you're head up and just score and they will LOVE you....Lots of picks left..

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Just want to thank a lot of you on the board here. You have provided me with some terrific laughs. The butt-hurt has been strong. Honestly, I secretly was kinda hoping to hear Tevon Coleman’s name called. I had my popcorn all ready. I think the kid is going to be an absolute stud. I would have personally liked the pick even though I think it would be better suited in the second. I really would've enjoyed the moments on the board though. That said, this was a nice surprise. lol
 

This stud of a WR came as a shock. I didn't see it coming at all. Am I disappointed? Heck no! If this kid is the best player available on the board (their board and not anyone else little mock draft fan board), then I am all for it. Bye Josh Cribbs!
 

We only keep getting better and deeper in the playoffs every year. If we start regressing then hey time to start looking in the mirror. The arrow keeps going up and the wins are steady as always. We have a winning team and franchise. Some of you would absolutely draft us in the likes of losing teams around the league I am sure of it. Thankfully, your mock fan draft boards and opinions can stay on fan forums for people to agree and disagree with.

 

Speaking of which why some of you still think these Pats will be there in the end is beyond me. They didn't improve this off season. They lost key pieces. We will beat them this season.
 

Day two should be fun... And hey I want a stud defense that's this "monster" as well. With that said, I still think the right approach is BPA! We can agree and disagree with it, but it's their board. So let it play out over the next few years and then judge.

 

Come on people RELAX and enjoy it. If by chance day two don’t go how you think it should have gone then come on back and post away. I will stop back in and see about some more free laughs to be had.

 

Thanks again and enjoy day two. I will!

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You know what... I'm glad my fight wth the need fir sleep was lost before #29 came in.

A lot of what I think has been said already but my position is I don't love the pick but I do understand it.

Ha what happened to judging a draft after 3 years, now we judge it after day 1!

Let's see how day 2 pans out.

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We will see how it will turn out. If the Colts again suck on Defense and protecting Andrew Luck Grigson will be in trouble. Colts probably will take a RB with one of the next two picks and so you will only have som mid round picks for the Defense. And you just can't expect to solve our Defense problems if you rely on 4th rounders to develop into pro bowlers.

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Randy Gregory in the 2nd, La'el Collins in the 3rd will have Grigson ending the night like...

SSUlg.jpg

I have zero issue with risking our third on Collins, if he's still there.

I want no part of Randy Gregory however, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't take him.

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TY, Andre, Dorsett, Moncrief.

Fleener, Allen, Doyle.

Those are our guys, all the rest won't see the field unless they are playing special teams.

We may keep a 5th WR on the roster, and it will be up to guys like Brown, Carter and Whalen to win that last job. I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 are cut by the end of training camp.

TY, Johnson, Fleener and Allen will be our "base" package.

TY, Johnson, Dorsett and Moncrief will be our passing down group, an elite "nascar" package that teams simply won't be able to defend.

Johnson, Fleener, Allen and Doyle will be our short yardage, goal-line group.

Would I have preferred a defensive player or a lineman? Hell yeah, but I can see where Dorsett means real value right away.

Josh Cribbs better pack his bags, because we got a new kick returner tonight.

Cribbs isn't on the team, making this an even more questionable pick

He was signed to a one year deal, that's over. :colts: app doesn't have him listed

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