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Sources: Make or Break Year for HC Chuck Pagano


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Who is calling for a coach to fired every 4 yrs? If Irsay doesn't think he is the right man for the job, then find someone else. Jim Mora was canned after 4 yrs and that seemed to work out fine.

Jim Mora was the scapegoat after 4 years.

What type of teams do you think the Patriots and the Steelers would be right now if they shared that same mentality? The Patriots and the Steeler's understand what most teams do not. Consistency starts from the top down.

Go look up how many head coaches the Colts have hired in the time frame that Belichick has been coaching the Patriots. Look up how many head coaches the Rooney's have had in the history of the NFL.

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I think it is very difficult to build a balanced team in this era. If you look at this year's SB teams you will see unbalance and flaws. Seattle had basically no WRs and an inconsistent pass rush and the Pats had a porous run defense and no deep pass threat. You just hope that the strengths you do have cover the weaknesses. I really don't think the Colts are that far off if they can bolster the defensive front and get better pass covering LBs.

Eh, I'd say with the Rookie wage scale look for teams to become even more balanced. It's the same mantra, draft well, maximise the cheap rookie deals and bring in maybe a few FAs to fill roster holes.

Pats porus Run D? You're kidding right, 9th in yards allowed and 6 rushing TDs allowed, if that's porus I don't know the word to describe the Colts' Run D. The Pat's D is a prime example of the mantra described above. As for the deep threat you had LaFell but didn't seem to like using him deep.

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This should be a make or break year for Grigson. Entering his 4th draft, he hasn't surrounded this team with nearly enough talent (specifically on defense) to be a better team than they are. Andrew Luck has been carrying this team on his back since he got here. Grigs has missed on 2/3 of his first round draft picks which puts the team behind schedule.

 

He's done some good things with FA's, but has missed more than hit in the draft.

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Eh, I'd say with the Rookie wage scale look for teams to become even more balanced. It's the same mantra, draft well, maximise the cheap rookie deals and bring in maybe a few FAs to fill roster holes.

Pats porus Run D? You're kidding right, 9th in yards allowed and 6 rushing TDs allowed, if that's porus I don't know the word to describe the Colts' Run D. The Pat's D is a prime example of the mantra described above. As for the deep threat you had LaFell but didn't seem to like using him deep.

Yeah, you can still build a balanced team but I was more referencing the notion that you can build teams like the niners of the 80s that were dominant and had no weaknesses. I think in this day and age the QB is most important because he is trying to off-set so many other weaknesses on the team.

 

In terms of the Pats, their run defense was not very good at all. Their ranking is more reflective of the fact that they faced teams that were passing oriented and did not have stout run games as when they did face run power teams like the Ravens and Hawks in the post-season they got roasted. You are right about the deep threat. LaFell would have been that guy but he is more of a deep in-cut guy which plays perfectly into Brady's strengths as he really does not have a great deep ball which further underscores my point. Even as great as Brady is, he has his flaws too so you have to work around it. I do think the Colts are close.

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Jim Mora was the scapegoat after 4 years.What type of teams do you think the Patriots and the Steelers would be right now if they shared that same mentality? The Patriots and the Steeler's understand what most teams do not. Consistency starts from the top down.Go look up how many head coaches the Colts have hired in the time frame that Belichick has been coaching the Patriots. Look up how many head coaches the Rooney's have had in the history of the NFL.

It starts at the top? Robert Kraft fired Pete Carroll after three years and hired Belichick. It's about finding the right guy...not just keeping a coach in place because that's the what talking heads drill into your head.

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Nice find....here is the brief article from Indy Star. Steel City, if you could turn this into a lind instead of the article it would be great. I guess we are not supposed to post full articles. Thank you. It is short, however. :)

Pagano has no plans to leave Colts

http://www.indystar.com/story/colts-insider/2015/03/27/chuck-pagano-indianapolis-colts-contract/70572504/

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Yeah, you can still build a balanced team but I was more referencing the notion that you can build teams like the niners of the 80s that were dominant and had no weaknesses. I think in this day and age the QB is most important because he is trying to off-set so many other weaknesses on the team.

In terms of the Pats, their run defense was not very good at all. Their ranking is more reflective of the fact that they faced teams that were passing oriented and did not have stout run games as when they did face run power teams like the Ravens and Hawks in the post-season they got roasted. You are right about the deep threat. LaFell would have been that guy but he is more of a deep in-cut guy which plays perfectly into Brady's strengths as he really does not have a great deep ball which further underscores my point. Even as great as Brady is, he has his flaws too so you have to work around it. I do think the Colts are close.

True I don't think you'll see teams such as those but that doesn't mean you can't be balanced. A bad team can still be balanced if it's bad across the board.

You know the Pats played the 3rd (twice), 6th, 10th, 11th, 12th (twice), 14th best run teams in terms of yards a game. 8 games against teams that are by definition above average doesn't really substantiate your claim that they only played teams who were bad at running the ball. True the number of Rush attempts against them was low (21st) but they still had a strong showing as the joint 8th best team in terms of average per attempt.

But hey stats are meaningless right? That D was pretty stacked however you care to paint it. I'd go as far to say I think Jamie Collins will be an amazing player in the future.

When I'm having to argue with you how good a Pats team is... The world has gone mad.

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Ian is pretty good solid info. Doubt this is something to be taken lightly. Him & Adam S. are usually on top of things

Personally, I wouldn't mind a more hard nose coach. Like a Rex Ryan kinda guy or Belicheck kinda guy

Pagano is just too nice imo

 

Rex Ryan is a clown.

Quite honestly, I believe this really to be a make or break year for Pagano. The Colts have the pieces in place now and have shown themselves to be more than capable of getting to the mountain top. New England remains the one challenger in the way. If Pagano gets the Colts past them and to the top of the mountain, you'll see him be the Colts coach for a long time. However, if he doesn't and the Colts underperform this season, you likely won't see him return.

 

It's a simple business.

 

We were 2-14 and the worst team in the league when Chuck/Grigs inherited this team.  We have overachieved under Chuck.  Yes, Luck has been very good for us, but to come to a piece of garbage and totally rebuild it and go to the playoffs 3 straight years is pretty impressive.  Winning a superbowl is incredibly difficult.  We are still a year or 2 away from having the right pieces in place, but we are very close.  IMO, the worst thing we could do would be to fire Chuck and bring in a new regime, it would be (IMO) a waste of Luck's first 4 years in the league to have him be forced to go into a different system with new personnel and a totally different plan.

 

Get rid of the team builder? How does that make sense?

It's Grigson's fault we look top flight against some teams but get blown out against the same team year after year?

 

Yes, in part it is Grigson's fault.  Not to blame Grigson, though.  We were the laughing stock of the league just 3 years ago -- other than the 0-16 LIons, I don't remember ever seeing a team as terrible as we were before Grigs and Pagano came in.  I think it's Pagano (and Pep, and Manusky, and Luck, and Vontae, and others....) who help make us look 'top flight' against some teams.  Again, not to blame it on Grigson because he was handed a pile of crap, but we simply have not had the depth and players we need at each position to play with the Patriots or some of the other elite teams in the league on a consistent basis.  We are getting there, but to have taken a 2-14 team to 3 straight playoff appearances and to have improved in the playoffs each year is certainly not something to be mad at Pagano about.

 

With all the talent we have missing out on a super bowl would be majorly disappointing. Especially if we get throttled by the pats again.

 

We have not had all that much talent.  We are improving, but across the board we are not as talented as many other teams.  Luck has helped mask a lot of our weaknesses but if you go across the board, position by position, there have been much more talented teams than us in the past few years.  We are continuing to improve, but if you put our team from the past few years on paper against some of the other top teams we are simply not as talented.

 

The Patriots are arguably better at QB (I would take Luck over Brady, but it is arguable that Brady is one of or the greatest of all time and to say Luck 'was' better than Brady last year is a stretch).  Every single other group they had us beat or were equal (except punter) -- their running backs were better, with an injured Reggie their WRs were better, our TEs are a strong point but with Gronk they were better at TE, they had a better OL, Vontae may be closing in on Revis but it is hard to say he was better than Revis at this point -- they were better at every other defensive back position, they had better LBs, they had a better DL.  Vinatieri and Gostkowski were arguably the 2 best kickers in the league last year and in that game we lost in the playoffs, Vinatieri was 0-for-1 and Gostkowski was 1-for-1.  Patty Mac is better than Allen at punter. 

 

How? Allowing unknown RB's to go for 200yrds and 4TD against you isn't on Grigson. The Jags don't even allow those numbers and our roster is better than theirs

 

The Patriots and the Jags didn't play against each other last year.  I am quite sure if the Pats wanted to put 200+ yards and 4 TDs on the Jags, they could have done so at their will.

 

If we don't win the Superbowl (or at least make it), I'd be strongly in favor of letting Chuck go and going all in on Harbaugh.  I think Harbuagh/Luck would be the next Bellichick/Brady (as evidenced by their chemistry in college).

Harbaugh signed a long-term deal at Michigan -- he isn't going to come back to the NFL after his first year there.  Harbaugh and Luck didn't win a national championship at the college level -- sorry, but to use their time together at a lower level when they weren't national champs does nothing to support a claim that they'd be world champs in the NFL level.

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1. Basis for the comment? He hasn't lasted longer than 5 years anywhere he's been other than being an assistant at WKU. I have plenty of basis for it. If you understand business, you'd realize that his type of personality reflects what has transpired in his coaching career thus far. Great at what he does but often clashes with those around him when he wants more control. His style is more suited for the college game where he can have more control. And when that happens, he leaves. When your coach starts to become your GM as well, you end up with problems. Spend some time researching it.

 

2. Wasn't this team suppose to be built on Pagano's defensive principles? He was brought in to build this team into the defensive juggernaut that was clearly missing in the Manning-Polian era. If you really think the Colts defense performed well for the majority of last season, you might want to re-evaluate what you saw. Anytime they played an elite-level QB, they got torched. The lone exception was Peyton in the playoff game.

 

3. It's general consensus that Reggie was no longer a true #1 when Luck arrived, even in 12'. While he was Luck's main target, he was more of a security blanket rather than a game-breaker that could open up a game. TY started to fill that role last year. And with teams recognizing that, there needed to be another threat outside of TY.

 

4. Nice attempt at trolling. Might want to come to the table with a little bit more ammo next time.

 

1. Five years is a long time in football, his moves have all been verticals moves bar his last one. You said he wore out his welcome wherever he had been, did he wear out his welcome in Stanford? Is he not considered on of their best ever coaches and loved by all? Would you believe it, I happen to know an awful lot about business, maybe we should compare business credentials :). Bill Belichick is HC and GM of the Patriots, he has all the control he could ask for, is that a problem? Spend some time researching it.

 

2. The defensive deficiencies of this team are hugely exaggerated - there are still problems, yes, but those do not lie squarely on Pagano's shoulders.  Our run defense was fine against everyone bar the Patriots, that needs to be addressed, as does the coverage issues in the middle of he field. All fixable, our defense will be fine.

 

3. A safety blanket that had 106 receptions for 1355 and 5 TDs with a rookie throwing him the ball. Give me a few more safety blankets.

 

4. You might want to come with to the table with correct idioms next time.

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True I don't think you'll see teams such as those but that doesn't mean you can't be balanced. A bad team can still be balanced if it's bad across the board.

You know the Pats played the 3rd (twice), 6th, 10th, 11th, 12th (twice), 14th best run teams in terms of yards a game. 8 games against teams that are by definition above average doesn't really substantiate your claim that they only played teams who were bad at running the ball. True the number of Rush attempts against them was low (21st) but they still had a strong showing as the joint 8th best team in terms of average per attempt.

But hey stats are meaningless right? That D was pretty stacked however you care to paint it. I'd go as far to say I think Jamie Collins will be an amazing player in the future.

When I'm having to argue with you how good a Pats team is... The world has gone mad.

Yeah, I think the run D was up and down. Because the offense was so good opponents were forced to pass more than run so that is the main reason why I think for the low rush attempts. I need to look it up to verify but someone had said that the Pats were dead last vs the rush up the middle. If true that would explain why Wilfork is gone. I loved Vince but he was not the same player this year. I am hoping his replacements - Branch, Jones and Siligia can fortify the middle along with a healthy Mayo.

 

I do love Jaime Collins. He can do it all. I am worried obviously about the secondary but am confident Bill will have guys back there that can play but the pass rush will need to get there this year.

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Yeah, I think the run D was up and down. Because the offense was so good opponents were forced to pass more than run so that is the main reason why I think for the low rush attempts. I need to look it up to verify but someone had said that the Pats were dead last vs the rush up the middle. If true that would explain why Wilfork is gone. I loved Vince but he was not the same player this year. I am hoping his replacements - Branch, Jones and Siligia can fortify the middle along with a healthy Mayo.

I do love Jaime Collins. He can do it all. I am worried obviously about the secondary but am confident Bill will have guys back there that can play but the pass rush will need to get there this year.

So hardly porus...

Vince Wilfiork graded out as +10.1 against the run last season for what it's worth.

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Fantastic post there, ColtsFanMikeC! Most eloquently put. You said and I quote, "it is arguable that Brady is one of or the greatest of all time". I agree. But the one fact that Tom Brady has had during his tenure as QB of the New England Patriots is a "tremendous" offensive front line. Year in and year out. Those accolades are attributable to Belichick's many strategies by way of selecting his staff over the years. Pure and simple. Brady is a great QB, no doubt. However, having these less spoken about "beasts" to protect him also creates an optical illusion so to speak for fans upholding that greatness. Can you imagine Peyton Manning having the O-Lines that Brady has had over those years? Good gracious. The records that Peyton now holds would've increased substantially, and that includes Super Bowl victories out the wah-zoo! :)

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It starts at the top? Robert Kraft fired Pete Carroll after three years and hired Belichick. It's about finding the right guy...not just keeping a coach in place because that's the what talking heads drill into your head.

You just proved my point. Pete Carroll was the right guy, but 3 years was not long enough to know that. They lucked out by getting Belichick. We might not be so lucky.

Teams do not always improve just because they switch directions with a new coach.

Four years will not be nearly long enough to evaluate Chuck Pagano.

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You just proved my point. Pete Carroll was the right guy, but 3 years was not long enough to know that. They lucked out by getting Belichick. We might not be so lucky.

Teams do not always improve just because they switch directions with a new coach.

Four years will not be nearly long enough to evaluate Chuck Pagano.

Whoa now.  Just because it worked in Seattle does not mean it would have ever worked in NE.  You can't discount all the variables you are overlooking, particularly the growth of a leader over a 10 year span.

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It starts at the top? Robert Kraft fired Pete Carroll after three years and hired Belichick. It's about finding the right guy...not just keeping a coach in place because that's the what talking heads drill into your head.

It only took Pete Carroll 15 years to deliver a title to New England. lol.

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Whoa now.  Just because it worked in Seattle does not mean it would have ever worked in NE.  You can't discount all the variables you are overlooking, particularly the growth of a leader over a 10 year span.

Carroll was not a good coach in NE and his care free style would have never worked in New England. His demeanor and style was much more well suited for the west coast.

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If any of this is true at all.....well then I guess the pressure is on for next season.

 

Well if history is any indication and it follows through then the Colts WILL be in the SB.

 

2012: WC round

2013: divisional round

2014: AFC title game

2015?

 

 

Also we are "due" to show up finally vs. the Pats IMO this year. Note I didn't even say win......I said show up........

 

Going to Pittsburgh too will be a load after last years defensive beatdown.

 

 

I do agree though, defensively this team MUST improve. No doubt about it. Offensively though I don't have major issues with us and think the run game will improve now finally. But, even our offense doesn't really show up vs. NE.

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Carroll was not a good coach in NE and his care free style would have never worked in New England. His demeanor and style was much more well suited for the west coast.

 

He has done well in Seattle when I looked back @ USC  I'm amazed it reminds me of animal house only worse .  He Won at any cost IMO he may not have been a good coach at the time he certainly IMO has developed into one . Well in the N.F.L..

 

http://www.bruinsnation.com/2006/6/26/113925/426

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You just proved my point. Pete Carroll was the right guy, but 3 years was not long enough to know that. They lucked out by getting Belichick. We might not be so lucky.Teams do not always improve just because they switch directions with a new coach.Four years will not be nearly long enough to evaluate Chuck Pagano.

No, I didn't just prove your point.

So how long should coaches get? 6 - 10 yrs?

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In 2014, out of 32 teams, the following is the list of coaches who had lasted more than four years at their current position without making a Super Bowl

 

1.  Marvin Lewis

 

 

 

 

It's the NFL.  It's what you sign up for. 

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This should be a make or break year for Grigson. Entering his 4th draft, he hasn't surrounded this team with nearly enough talent (specifically on defense) to be a better team than they are. Andrew Luck has been carrying this team on his back since he got here. Grigs has missed on 2/3 of his first round draft picks which puts the team behind schedule.

 

He's done some good things with FA's, but has missed more than hit in the draft.

Hits                 Misses

 

Luck               Brazill (cut due to off-the-field issues only)

Fleener          Justin Anderson (never even played a snap for us but was a 7th round pick)

Allen               Tim Fugger (also a 7th rounder...)

TY                  John Boyett (6th rounder safety, arrested and then released by us before even playing)

Moncrief         Andrew Jackson (obviously recently cut as well)

Mewhort

Ballard

Chapman

Newsome

 

You can't call Holmes a bust, he is still playing and contributing and actually did a decent job down the stretch last season when he won the starting role back.

It's still too soon to call it on Werner, though the 1st rounder is looking like a high pick on him.

Hughes hasnt been a hit or bust, just a rotational player. Thornton is a rotational player at best but seeing as he is still playing you cant really call him a bust.

How is that more misses than hits in the draft?..... Obviously there are other players like Chandler Harnish, Kerwynn Williams, Ulrick John and Justice Cunningham, but they were ALL 7th rounders with no expectations and we even got a trade for Harnish, if anything that counts towards the hits column.

 

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1. Five years is a long time in football, his moves have all been verticals moves bar his last one. You said he wore out his welcome wherever he had been, did he wear out his welcome in Stanford? Is he not considered on of their best ever coaches and loved by all? Would you believe it, I happen to know an awful lot about business, maybe we should compare business credentials :). Bill Belichick is HC and GM of the Patriots, he has all the control he could ask for, is that a problem? Spend some time researching it.

 

2. The defensive deficiencies of this team are hugely exaggerated - there are still problems, yes, but those do not lie squarely on Pagano's shoulders.  Our run defense was fine against everyone bar the Patriots, that needs to be addressed, as does the coverage issues in the middle of he field. All fixable, our defense will be fine.

 

3. A safety blanket that had 106 receptions for 1355 and 5 TDs with a rookie throwing him the ball. Give me a few more safety blankets.

 

4. You might want to come with to the table with correct idioms next time.

 

1. For coaching, it's not a long time. How long was Cowher with the Steelers? Dungy with the Colts? Shula with the Dolphins? All I'm saying is that it's a trend that he doesn't stay longer than 5 years with any one particular organization.. He DID wear out his welcome with San Fran. There's a reason why Harbaugh bolted back to college. Tell me Mr. Business Expert, why did he go back to college? Was it for more money or more control? You are listing one coach who's won 4 Super Bowl's as a prime example of the HC/GM role. What about Chip Kelly? Or Ditka when he was with the Saints? I encourage you to spend a little time looking at some more examples of what you are trying to convey. Jimmy Johnson might be your other example. After that, you'll find the list is pretty short.

 

2. Hugely exaggerated? Did you not watch the Steelers game last year? Or the Broncos game in week 1? Anytime the defense played an elite-level QB, they got carved up. Now the reasons for that are fairly obvious (lack of pass rush, inconsistent run defense, LB's not covering TE's). I'm not saying it should rest squarely on Pagano's shoulders but he shouldn't get a pass when he was brought in to fix that side of the ball specifically.

 

3. You're seeing what you want to see with those numbers. Everyone knows that Luck was force-feeding Reggie a lot of the time his rookie year because there wasn't anyone else to consistently catch the ball.This is evident in how it took Luck's number's took a hit once Reggie went down in 13'. Read between the lines. Wayne was targeted 212 times that year. You are bound to get inflated numbers with that many targets. http://www.kffl.com/player/872/nfl/utilization/reggie-wayne?uyear=2012

 

4. Cry me a river. You still got the point yet didn't address it.

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Hits Misses

Luck Brazill (cut due to off-the-field issues only)

Fleener Justin Anderson (never even played a snap for us but was a 7th round pick)

Allen Tim Fugger (also a 7th rounder...)

TY John Boyett (6th rounder safety, arrested and then released by us before even playing)

Moncrief Andrew Jackson (obviously recently cut as well)

Mewhort

Ballard

Chapman

Newsome

You can't call Holmes a bust, he is still playing and contributing and actually did a decent job down the stretch last season when he won the starting role back.

It's still too soon to call it on Werner, though the 1st rounder is looking like a high pick on him.

Hughes hasnt been a hit or bust, just a rotational player. Thornton is a rotational player at best but seeing as he is still playing you cant really call him a bust.

How is that more misses than hits in the draft?..... Obviously there are other players like Chandler Harnish, Kerwynn Williams, Ulrick John and Justice Cunningham, but they were ALL 7th rounders with no expectations and we even got a trade for Harnish, if anything that counts towards the hits column.

You can't give him credit for Luck. That was the most obvious choice in recent memory. Anyone would have made that pick.

I like Fleener and Allen but they're not amazing yet. Chapman is terrible. Richardson counts as a 1st and he was a bust. But for arguments sale I'll give you Fleener and Allen anyways.

I'll give you Ballard because barring that injury, he'd be our starting RB.

So his real hits are Fleener, Allen, Hilton, Ballard, Mewhort, Moncrief, and Newsome.

I still have faith in Holmes and Thornton but for now the entire 2013 draft goes down as a wash. That's not to say I don't like Grigson, but he should be under more pressure than Pagano because defensively he hasn't surrounded the team with any talent from the draft. Newsome is like his first good defensive player.

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1. For coaching, it's not a long time. How long was Cowher with the Steelers? Dungy with the Colts? Shula with the Dolphins? All I'm saying is that it's a trend that he doesn't stay longer than 5 years with any one particular organization.. He DID wear out his welcome with San Fran. There's a reason why Harbaugh bolted back to college. Tell me Mr. Business Expert, why did he go back to college? Was it for more money or more control? You are listing one coach who's won 4 Super Bowl's as a prime example of the HC/GM role. What about Chip Kelly? Or Ditka when he was with the Saints? I encourage you to spend a little time looking at some more examples of what you are trying to convey. Jimmy Johnson might be your other example. After that, you'll find the list is pretty short.

 

2. Hugely exaggerated? Did you not watch the Steelers game last year? Or the Broncos game in week 1? Anytime the defense played an elite-level QB, they got carved up. Now the reasons for that are fairly obvious (lack of pass rush, inconsistent run defense, LB's not covering TE's). I'm not saying it should rest squarely on Pagano's shoulders but he shouldn't get a pass when he was brought in to fix that side of the ball specifically.

 

3. You're seeing what you want to see with those numbers. Everyone knows that Luck was force-feeding Reggie a lot of the time his rookie year because there wasn't anyone else to consistently catch the ball.This is evident in how it took Luck's number's took a hit once Reggie went down in 13'. Read between the lines. Wayne was targeted 212 times that year. You are bound to get inflated numbers with that many targets. http://www.kffl.com/player/872/nfl/utilization/reggie-wayne?uyear=2012

 

4. Cry me a river. You still got the point yet didn't address it.

 

 

Good lord, you are on of these people who keep being proven wrong but won't give up.

 

The average tenure for an NFL Head Coach is 4 years. Harbaugh's tenure was an average in length. Don't acknowledge the fact that his moves up until his last were all vertical moves. When you do well, you move up the ladder, it's a simple concept. You use Chip Kelly as an example? He took over personnel control literally this off-season, but you have had time to gauge his success? Well here are a few more who have/have had personnel control: Sean Payton, Mike Shanahan and Pete Carroll (who has final say on all moves personnel moves, John Schneider merely fills an advisory role). They have all won Super Bowls. You lose.

 

Did you watch every other game? We have problems in coverage around the middle and with our pass rush, both will be better.

 

Wow... Anyone who has any inkling about football knows Reggie Wayne was an elite receiver in 2012. The ball is forced to Calvin Johnson as well, because he is just that good. Go back and watch the Green Bay game and tell me Wayne was a safety blanket.

 

I didn't address it because your idiom had to be afforded the ridicule it deserved.

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 I'm not saying it should rest squarely on Pagano's shoulders but he shouldn't get a pass when he was brought in to fix that side of the ball specifically.

 

 

I don't think there's anyone looking to give Pagano a pass. But he was brought in to coach the entire team, not just the defense. And when you look at the draft picks that have been spent on offense vs. defense, and you look at the quality of the free agents that have been signed, there are obvious reasons why the offense is better than the defense so far.

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Good lord, you are on of these people who keep being proven wrong but won't give up.

 

The average tenure for an NFL Head Coach is 4 years. Harbaugh's tenure was an average in length. Don't acknowledge the fact that his moves up until his last were all vertical moves. When you do well, you move up the ladder, it's a simple concept. You use Chip Kelly as an example? He took over personnel control literally this off-season, but you have had time to gauge his success? Well here are a few more who have/have had personnel control: Sean Payton, Mike Shanahan and Pete Carroll (who has final say on all moves personnel moves, John Schneider merely fills an advisory role). They have all won Super Bowls. You lose.

 

Did you watch every other game? We have problems in coverage around the middle and with our pass rush, both will be better.

 

Wow... Anyone who has any inkling about football knows Reggie Wayne was an elite receiver in 2012. The ball is forced to Calvin Johnson as well, because he is just that good. Go back and watch the Green Bay game and tell me Wayne was a safety blanket.

 

I didn't address it because your idiom had to be afforded the ridicule it deserved.

 

 

I'm not saying he didn't "move up the ladder". Go ahead and ignore the question of why he bolted back to college. I'll ask it again, Was it for more money or more control? I don't want a coach that will bolt for the next best thing if it pops open. I'll state my point again as it needs to be repeated since it's not been understood all the other times I've said it. Harbaugh has left an organization within 5 years with his one NFL stint ending badly. I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, he's just one that wouldn't stick with an organization for a long time. If he were to come to the Colts, and bolt after 3-5 years, would you really be happy as a fan? If he won a super bowl during that time then maybe. But if not, it would be hurting the organization in the long run. And please, there are more failure's in NFL history than successes with the HC/GM all-in-one combo. Exceptions to the rule don't break it. Oh and tell me more about how Shanahan is a good example of a HC/GM combo. I can tell he was really successful after John Elway.

 

You are flat out missing the point yet again. My point is, every time the Colts defense was matched up against an elite-level QB, they lost. Manning carved them up. Rothlisberger did. Romo did. Heck, even Nick Foles dropped 331 passing yards. The reason's for that are agreeable but don't ignore the fact that the Colts struggled mightily last year against top-tier QB's.

 

You keep misunderstanding what I've said. Reggie Wayne was a good security blanket for Luck and was force-fed to make his numbers look inflated. People around the league know that Reggie wasn't the game-breaker he once was at that point. Meanwhile, it's common knowledge that Calvin Johnson is one of the top game-breaking WR's in the game. Having one good game against Green Bay doesn't change the body of work. I love Reggie and all the things he's done in a Colts uniform, but at that point in his career, it was clear he wasn't the same Reggie of old, which has been my point all along. There's a major difference between a security blanket and a game-breaker. If you can't figure that out, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Whatever you say. Doesn't change the fact that the Colts shouldn't exactly blow up what they are doing in hopes of getting someone "better" like Harbaugh.

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You can't give him credit for Luck. That was the most obvious choice in recent memory. Anyone would have made that pick.

I like Fleener and Allen but they're not amazing yet. Chapman is terrible. Richardson counts as a 1st and he was a bust. But for arguments sale I'll give you Fleener and Allen anyways.

I'll give you Ballard because barring that injury, he'd be our starting RB.

So his real hits are Fleener, Allen, Hilton, Ballard, Mewhort, Moncrief, and Newsome.

I still have faith in Holmes and Thornton but for now the entire 2013 draft goes down as a wash. That's not to say I don't like Grigson, but he should be under more pressure than Pagano because defensively he hasn't surrounded the team with any talent from the draft. Newsome is like his first good defensive player.

You can't call the Luck pick obvious cause remember there were people who wanted RG3. Especially after the rookie year of the 2

Look at it now, then yes Andrew was/is obviously the better choice in present day

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You can't call the Luck pick obvious cause remember there were people who wanted RG3. Especially after the rookie year of the 2

Look at it now, then yes Andrew was/is obviously the better choice in present day

It was the most obvious pick in league history.

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