Sources: Make or Break Year for HC Chuck Pagano

[ProblChld32]

Yea i see that they havent re-worked a deal to extend his contract which is crazy, since he has done great things since getting here. 

[Restored]

He always left for a better job....except when the Niners forced him out.

 

You honestly can't tell me Michigan isn't a better job than the 49ers though. Ton of money+complete control? That'd be way too good to pass up. Especially at your Alma Mater.

[Flash7]

Just a couple of random thoughts about this:

 

1. When Pagano and Grigson where hired Irsay stated something along the lines that he was okay with having a team that was balanced and defensively focused and not having an offense or QB put up Star Wars numbers. Yet, here we are with a top 3 offense and an average to below average defense. This is what the Colts have been for over a decade. I think Irsay expected something different and is not as patient this time around.

 

2. If we evaluate our defensive talent (not the whole team) we may have the worst defense in the AFC South. Texans first, followed by possibly the Titans and we may be on par or just behind the Jaguars. Of course, their offenses are bad thus effecting their overall team and defense negatively. For a coach and GM hired to build a hard-nosed defensive team, this does not bode well.

 

3. Personally, I think Pagano is a good coach. I would rate him 8 out of 10, meaning that if we replaced him with someone else there is only a 20% chance that his replacement would be an upgrade and an 80% chance that the replacement would be as good or worse.

 

4. Last point. I don't think that beating NE factors into this decision too much. Let's say we play NE and win, but we played horribly and NE played worse. Would this be a good sign of improvement? NO. To see improvement, we need to see that we can beat the best teams while they are at their best. The Colts showed that they were able to do this in 2013 but not in 2014.

[Gavin]

You honestly can't tell me Michigan isn't a better job than the 49ers though. Ton of money+complete control? That'd be way too good to pass up. Especially at your Alma Mater.

Not to mention Devin Gardner is headed to the NFL....as a WR as I expected.....So that right there helps

[ColtRider]

He doesn't have the power over every Website. And if he tried to go Nazi on this board then people would disappear from here to another. 

 

I can express my rights anywhere, and I do not need Jim Irsay's OK to have an opinion. I am sorry to hear that you feel someone has that kind of power over you.

No need to feel "sorry" for me, IMHO! I regard these forums as a "Privilege and Right" to voice our opinions about any football team especially the Indianapolis Colts. After all, it is a "COLTS" forum and site. Everyone here that values that does get "attention" via these web-site roadways. So, drive carefully, okay?

[BOTT]

You honestly can't tell me Michigan isn't a better job than the 49ers though. Ton of money+complete control? That'd be way too good to pass up. Especially at your Alma Mater.

Depends on the person. But are you honestly going to say Harbaugh left voluntarily?

[BlueShoe]

That was a whole lot of silliness

 

You think the fans of the Browns, Bears, Jaguars, Titans, Raiders, Bucs, Rams, and so on would be complaining about 3 straight 11 win seasons, and going to the playoffs 3 years in a row with steady improvement?

 

I am all for fixing the offensive line, but not extended Chuck Pagano is absolutely ludicrous.

[BOTT]

You think the fans of the Browns, Bears, Jaguars, Titans, Raiders, Bucs, Rams, and so on would be complaining about 3 straight 11 win seasons, and going to the playoffs 3 years in a row with steady improvement?

 

I am all for fixing the offensive line, but not extended Chuck Pagano is absolutely ludicrous.

Who cares what they complain about? I just don't get why fans hold coaches in such esteem and treat players as easily replaceable products. If Irsay believes he can find a better man for the job, then so be it......after all that's the way we view players.

[12dalegend]

Personally, I think our talent level is good, but not at Super Bowl level, yet. Yes, we were one game away from the Super Bowl, but we we realistically are no where near as talented as the two teams that actually played in the Super bowl, NE and Seattle. (I know that we still have the draft).

 

If this is a "make or break" season for Coach Pagano, then I feel bad for him. Our greatest weakness have always been and still remain the O-line and D-line. Coincidentally, those two areas were minimally addressed through FA. I foresee another season of bad but improving run defense (we were ranked #18, 26 previously), and continued issues at O-line. Yes, we can be hopeful that it has gotten better, but I will reserve being hopeful after so many years of sub-par O-line performances.

The Pats lost Wilfork, Revis and Browner and their div has gotten a lot tougher and thinking they wonʻt be to healthy at end of season, Seattle will be back to SB and the Colts div also has gotten better too but still expecting them to sweep div again, the Pats will have their hands full in their div but will win as there is only 1 established QB on div teams...Tannenhill, but I agree make or break year for Pagano but same can be said for everyone else...Grigson, Manusky and Hamilton

[Superman]

I missed a lot of posts so I apologize if I repeat something but indeed this is a big year for him. For one he is in a contract year....not many coaches get left out to dry in a contract year. I PERSONALLY think its the wrong thing to do for Irsay. Say we have some injuries...we hit a rough spot...go like 2-4 or something at point....we hit a point of no return...either get back on track or players give up on their coach. If we say extended him another year it would give him legitimacy in the locker room. Like coach is coming back we better get on board or we may lose our job...as opposed to well coach is gone...mail it in or not he ain't making a decision on my future anyways. Its not that simple but basically along those lines. Doesn't matter if you are keeping the guy or not you can cut him lose with a year left and not be out much. This puts a TON of pressure on the guy with no contract working under. We already have high expectations but man thats rough. We've seen many crack under less. What happens is if he coaches well but just gets us back to where we were you put yourself between a rock and a hard place about re-signing him....he will want a longer deal and other teams might offer him to rebuild them or your stuck extending him long term yourself whether you want that or not maybe. Extend him a year now he has security and the option to cut after this year or extend him if we perform well. I just don't like leaving your coach out there like that.

 

I think we basically have to get back to where we were last year or beyond to have any hope of keeping the job (unless Luck goes down). If we go 1 and done I doubt he is brought back. Its harsh in the NFL but the team is built to win it all and we saw with Fox...good is just not good enough.

 

Irsay doesn't want Atlanta...but he doesn't want Cincy either where we can't get over the hump...where the talent is there but coaching might limit their performance. He clearly wasn't happy with the last Manning era...and we had a lot of stability with coaching staffs...so clearly he is ok with a shake up...and Grigson understands that too...so if Chuck can't get it done with his players maybe another coach can....else they both could go.

 

You missed the part where they offered him a one year extension, and he turned it down. They want him to prove it, and he's accepted the challenge. 

[Restored]

Depends on the person. But are you honestly going to say Harbaugh left voluntarily?

 

Doesn't matter what I think. All I'm saying is the money and control had to make jumping to Michigan seem like a no-brainer. If he wanted to stay with San Fran, I'm willing to bet he could've made it work. It takes two to tango and apparently they couldn't make it work. Like I said, it should come as no surprise that Harbaugh is now coaching somewhere where he has complete control.

[12dalegend]

I think you missed my point.  I'm behind them too, that doesn't mean they don't need to improve.

Yes I like them too but also donʻt want a 17yr Manning rewind and repeat, build a strong D like the Texans and weʻll have 14 win season and the Colts can finally GET DAT BLING BLING!!!!

[BOTT]

Doesn't matter what I think. All I'm saying is the money and control had to make jumping to Michigan seem like a no-brainer. If he wanted to stay with San Fran, I'm willing to bet he could've made it work. It takes two to tango and apparently they couldn't make it work. Like I said, it should come as no surprise that Harbaugh is now coaching somewhere where he has complete control.

Harbaugh came out and said he was essentially fired. Unless you think he lying for some unknown reason.

[Superman]

Cards, Rams, Bengals, and even SD..   Dominated the Colts in 13, and the BIG wins...  only SF was a total whipping.   Sea and Denver where down to the wire.

 

Bottom line this team under Pagano is feast or famine.         Especially against really good competition.    And I have stated my issues with the coach to death on this board.   

 

Well.   this is his chance to put it all together.         He has the QB, and the GM has given him a roster that on paper looks like a SB favorite?  Or at least in the mix.     Lets see how it unfolds.   .

 

In answer to the big losses, there were big wins. And if you want to marginalize the wins, then we can also marginalize the losses. For instance, the Chargers hardly dominated the Colts in 2013. 

 

And I don't think getting better every year is "feast or famine." When you take a step back and look at the big picture, the team is headed in the right direction. On a micro level, there are tons of things to take issue with, but overall, it's hard to complain about the job this staff has done.

 

All that said, and despite my sometimes vigorous defense of the staff, I agree with this measured stance by Irsay. As I said before, Pagano (and Grigson, who has a team option for a fifth year) need to prove that they are the right guys for the next chapter. To me, that's what 2015 is about.

[oldunclemark]

Who would release that?

Good question,.,..No one would.....

Does anyone believe that Chuck Pagano would be fired after a 4th consecutive 11-5 season.?

We doubt things we hear out of people's mouths and we believe stuff from unnamed single sources.

we were 13-6 overall last year..Chuck Pagano's not going anywhere

[colts8718]

Never will happen dreamers; too much money being given to him at Michigan.

Never say never    

[Superman]

Chuck is obviously a "vet guy" he is NOT willing to rock the boat and just play younger talent.  

 

Yet, this board and all Indy sports media spent two months complaining about Shipley being benched for Harrison. Boat rocked. Younger talent played. 

 

This coaching staff has played young guys since day one. 

[BOTT]

Good question,.,..No one would.....Does anyone believe that Chuck Pagano would be fired after a 4th consecutive 11-5 season.?We doubt things we hear out of people's mouths and we believe stuff from unnamed single sources.we were 13-6 overall last year..Chuck Pagano's not going anywhere

That's about as convincing as vince young fans posting his won-loss record. Not saying he deserves to fired, but you're making a rather lazy argument.

[dgambill]

You missed the part where they offered him a one year extension, and he turned it down. They want him to prove it, and he's accepted the challenge. 

Thanks....I don't like him coaching on a 1 yr contract but guess we can't get past that if he refuses. In Colts and Paganos mind a 1 yr extension still would be a make or break but to the players it might feel different. I just worry if we stumble ala 06 when we hit that spell where the defense couldn't stop even Ron Dayne and 3rd stringers were getting 100yds on us but overall we still had a really good team but we lose some games we shouldn't....we have stability with coaching staff..players etc that we don't lose our season because of it. I'm glad he is ready for the challenge...we need the team to play with high expectations and the staff to be ready to win those tough games and make adjustments necessary to win. I think we will be fine....but its just my normal preference not to have a lame duck coach.

[Superman]

Thanks....I don't like him coaching on a 1 yr contract but guess we can't get past that if he refuses. In Colts and Paganos mind a 1 yr extension still would be a make or break but to the players it might feel different. I just worry if we stumble ala 06 when we hit that spell where the defense couldn't stop even Ron Dayne and 3rd stringers were getting 100yds on us but overall we still had a really good team but we lose some games we shouldn't....we have stability with coaching staff..players etc that we don't lose our season because of it. I'm glad he is ready for the challenge...we need the team to play with high expectations and the staff to be ready to win those tough games and make adjustments necessary to win. I think we will be fine....but its just my normal preference not to have a lame duck coach.

 

I don't think Irsay is looking to move on from Pagano. I don't think he's on the hot seat, I don't think he's on thin ice, or whatever other expression we can use... I just think the team needs to make a transition and get to the next level, and if Pagano (and Grigson, by the way, who is also down to the final year of his deal, though he has a team option for a fifth year) can't make that happen, then decisions have to be made. I say this as someone who is a fan of both guys.

 

That being the case, if the Colts don't steamroll everyone on the schedule in 2015, I don't think that means Pagano is gone. I really don't think this is a statement of any kind about needing to beat the Patriots, needing to get to the Super Bowl, etc. I think it's much bigger than that. Like I said earlier, Pagano and Grigson were the right guys to turn things around. It remains to be seen if they're the right guys to lead a would-be contender for the next several years.

[dgambill]

I don't think Irsay is looking to move on from Pagano. I don't think he's on the hot seat, I don't think he's on thin ice, or whatever other expression we can use... I just think the team needs to make a transition and get to the next level, and if Pagano (and Grigson, by the way, who is also down to the final year of his deal, though he has a team option for a fifth year) can't make that happen, then decisions have to be made. I say this as someone who is a fan of both guys.

 

That being the case, if the Colts don't steamroll everyone on the schedule in 2015, I don't think that means Pagano is gone. I really don't think this is a statement of any kind about needing to beat the Patriots, needing to get to the Super Bowl, etc. I think it's much bigger than that. Like I said earlier, Pagano and Grigson were the right guys to turn things around. It remains to be seen if they're the right guys to lead a would-be contender for the next several years.

Oh I agree....I think its more we need to keep the steady improvement we are on or at least not back slide. However, if we have a season where we lose our division or take a step back...say we see some of Grigsons move not working out well wouldn't surprise me to move on. Irsay made it very clear his lack of happiness for the Peyton years and ONLY 1 SB ring....if we look like we are headed to another decade like that...I take him at his word he won't be happy with that...meaning he wouldn't hestitate to move on if he thinks he has the right person to replace....like a Tony Dungy type coach. I imagine SB or not....beat the Pats or not...we need to show we are still progressing. We didn't pull the plug after Peytons early struggles against NE...no reason to now...even after a horrible upset in 05 against Pittsburg when we were a SB favorite....we stuck it out and won it finally in 06. That said Pagano and Grigson doesn't have the pedigree that Dungy and Polian had...I (if I were Grigson or Pagano) wouldn't want to leave that decision up to Irsay with a lot of question marks...say a 1 and done or bad playoff performance...I would want a strong showing because I'm sure there are some great coaches and GMs out there that would kill to handle this team....even some retired big name ones that wouldn't mind making a comeback....if the positon opened up every big name in the book would likely be on the list....Cower, Gruden, Harbaugh, etc on and on.

[BlueShoe]

No need to feel "sorry" for me, IMHO! I regard these forums as a "Privilege and Right" to voice our opinions about any football team especially the Indianapolis Colts. After all, it is a "COLTS" forum and site. Everyone here that values that does get "attention" via these web-site roadways. So, drive carefully, okay?

 

I have been riding these board roads for over 20 years, and understand the traffic signs well. As far as having a privilege, it works both ways. The Colts are privileged to have fans who care about the team enough to even bother voicing an opinion. Without the fans, there is no Colts. We pays the bills Jack! Believe that. 

[BlueShoe]

Who cares what they complain about? I just don't get why fans hold coaches in such esteem and treat players as easily replaceable products. If Irsay believes he can find a better man for the job, then so be it......after all that's the way we view players.

 

Recipe for disaster is to replace your head coach every 4 years. 

[Coltsman1788]

How many asskickings did Dungy endure at the hands of New England before he started returning the favor? He took a couple beatings in the playoffs and regular season and yet he was NEVER on the hot seat because of those specific losses.

 

 

 

Three - two in the playoffs.  Chuck's at 4 and 2. 

 

I don't really think that Dungy's two playoff losses really qualify as "butt kickings".  I agree that they were physically dominated but they did not give up an insane amount of points on defense.  Their offense was stiffled by the physical play of the Patriot secondary.  The regular season loss was a close game decided only when Edgerrin was stopped at the goal line as time expired and an "injured" Willie McGinest sprinted joyfully off the field.  The Dungy Colts were at least competitive with New England before clearing that hurdle first in 2005 and then ultimately in 2006 in the AFCC.  Though the Pats had the upper hand early on, you still sensed a healthy level of respect for Peyton and the Colts during the early Dungy years.

 

The Pagano era has played out much differently.  The Colts have not come close to even being competitive with New England. All four games have ended in blow outs, including two post season debacles.  These were "butt kickings" in the purest sense of the word.  The defense has surrendered tons of points and yards and have mustered very little offensively by comparison.  I also do not get the sense that the Patriots respect the Colts much...they seem to take them for a joke...with Brady photoshoping pictures of him riding the Colts logo.  There is no fear of Luck currently as there was for Peyton. 

 

Irsay sees this and will probably intervene if this continues.  Remember, the first coach in the Manning era was Jim Mora.  He made the playoffs but couldn't get a win.  When Irsay discerned the trend he made a move.  In came Dungy to lead the Colts eventually past New England and ultimately to a Super Bowl title.  The same could apply here in the Luck era if Pagano can't figure out how to beat New England.  Sometimes it takes that second coach to come in and give the team that extra push to get over the hump. 

 

Not extending Pagano's contract right now is a good decision in my opinion.  It doesn't mean that it won't happen, just that more evidence is needed to justify investing more of  Luck's early years into this particular coach.  This season will be his litmus test.  The monster is as built as its going to get.  Time to find out if it is ferocious enough or if it is time to head back to the lab with a new mad scientist.

[Superman]

Oh I agree....I think its more we need to keep the steady improvement we are on or at least not back slide. However, if we have a season where we lose our division or take a step back...say we see some of Grigsons move not working out well wouldn't surprise me to move on. Irsay made it very clear his lack of happiness for the Peyton years and ONLY 1 SB ring....if we look like we are headed to another decade like that...I take him at his word he won't be happy with that...meaning he wouldn't hestitate to move on if he thinks he has the right person to replace....like a Tony Dungy type coach. I imagine SB or not....beat the Pats or not...we need to show we are still progressing. We didn't pull the plug after Peytons early struggles against NE...no reason to now...even after a horrible upset in 05 against Pittsburg when we were a SB favorite....we stuck it out and won it finally in 06. That said Pagano and Grigson doesn't have the pedigree that Dungy and Polian had...I (if I were Grigson or Pagano) wouldn't want to leave that decision up to Irsay with a lot of question marks...say a 1 and done or bad playoff performance...I would want a strong showing because I'm sure there are some great coaches and GMs out there that would kill to handle this team....even some retired big name ones that wouldn't mind making a comeback....if the positon opened up every big name in the book would likely be on the list....Cower, Gruden, Harbaugh, etc on and on.

The offered extension was for a modest increase. I don't blame Pagano for playing it out. If the team has a good year, his market will be strong, and he can command a bigger increase. He's betting on himself, just like players do.

[Coltsman1788]

If the Ravens can have a bunch of UDFA and unknown players hold their secondary together, I don't see why we couldn't have Hughes and Co. step up on the defensive line. There's no way we're coming outta the draft with the help some people claim we need

One solid NT or DE is what we need. some act like we need all 3 starters outta this one draft smh

Jones Langford Draft

Or just roll with Jones Langford Hughes

Just get depth in the draft and build onto the secondary and offensive line

I don't think we can just roll with Jones, Langford, and Hughes and not expect to be ran over roughshod again by New England.  Sorry, Langford's addition alone isn't enough.  I agree we need to add a high level draft pick...preferably at NT.  We also lost RJF so his replacement should also come from this draft probably as a mid to late round depth pick.  I am in no way implying that all of our draft picks need to be spent addressing the Dline. We obviously have other needs as well.  However, what we have done in free agency thus far in and of itself probably still isn't enough to enable our D line to stand up to the Patriot's running game.  We need to augment it with solid drafting.

[BOTT]

Recipe for disaster is to replace your head coach every 4 years.

Who is calling for a coach to fired every 4 yrs? If Irsay doesn't think he is the right man for the job, then find someone else. Jim Mora was canned after 4 yrs and that seemed to work out fine.

[CanuckColt]

Recipe for disaster is to replace your head coach every 4 years. 

Recipe for success...you get rid of same 'old, same old' and get some fresh thinking and energy...not to mention you might just increase Head Coach competence over Average Chuck.

[ricker182]

Just a couple of random thoughts about this:

1. When Pagano and Grigson where hired Irsay stated something along the lines that he was okay with having a team that was balanced and defensively focused and not having an offense or QB put up Star Wars numbers. Yet, here we are with a top 3 offense and an average to below average defense. This is what the Colts have been for over a decade. I think Irsay expected something different and is not as patient this time around.

2. If we evaluate our defensive talent (not the whole team) we may have the worst defense in the AFC South. Texans first, followed by possibly the Titans and we may be on par or just behind the Jaguars. Of course, their offenses are bad thus effecting their overall team and defense negatively. For a coach and GM hired to build a hard-nosed defensive team, this does not bode well.

3. Personally, I think Pagano is a good coach. I would rate him 8 out of 10, meaning that if we replaced him with someone else there is only a 20% chance that his replacement would be an upgrade and an 80% chance that the replacement would be as good or worse.

4. Last point. I don't think that beating NE factors into this decision too much. Let's say we play NE and win, but we played horribly and NE played worse. Would this be a good sign of improvement? NO. To see improvement, we need to see that we can beat the best teams while they are at their best. The Colts showed that they were able to do this in 2013 but not in 2014.

Defense is the toughest thing to build in today's NFL. The rules favor the offense and it takes 11 guys to have a good defense. It only takes a few offensive players to make a good offense.

[NewColtsFan]

The offered extension was for a modest increase. I don't blame Pagano for playing it out. If the team has a good year, his market will be strong, and he can command a bigger increase. He's betting on himself, just like players do.

 

Here's an interesting piece from Pro Football Talk....  it's written by Mike Florio, who I know many here (you?) don't like...

 

It's a "think out loud" piece on what COULD go wrong this year....

 

I think it's worth reading.....

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/27/pagano-grigson-could-have-a-hard-time-staying-on-same-page-this-year/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[Superman]

Here's an interesting piece from Pro Football Talk....  it's written by Mike Florio, who I know many here (you?) don't like...

 

It's a "think out loud" piece on what COULD go wrong this year....

 

I think it's worth reading.....

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/27/pagano-grigson-could-have-a-hard-time-staying-on-same-page-this-year/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

 

I read it earlier. As you might imagine, I think it's nonsense. There are several examples of teams allowing coaches to play out the final year of their contract, most notably, Jason Garrett. And there are probably more examples of teams extending coaches, then firing them anyways, like Mike Smith last year. 

 

And the details are also important. Sadly, the one year offer wasn't reported originally, and a lot of people have missed that part. But this is an issue of Pagano wanting to prove his value as much as it's about Irsay not wanting to extend him yet. Maybe more. And the Colts have a fifth year option on Grigson, so he's not really lame-duck.

 

Neither of these two men are egotistical, neither of them play the blame game, they always speak in agreement, and they always take personal responsibility for what happens with this team. Pagano's comments this week about fixing the run defense strongly refute any idea that he would blame anyone else for any failures with this team. Grigson made similar comments suggesting that he holds himself accountable. I wouldn't expect either of them to point the finger at the other, under any circumstances.

 

And if Irsay decided after 2015 to get rid of one of them, I would expect him to get rid of both of them. If they don't pick up Grigson's fifth year, I would imagine a new GM would probably want to pick his own head coach. If things break badly for one of them, I think they break badly for the other also. 

 

But Florio likes to jump to conclusions and blow things out of proportion. I'm not even a little surprised that he would write this. And I don't think it's an accurate representation of how things would go between these two men and Irsay. It's entirely contrary to everything we know about them.

[ColtRider]

I have been riding these board roads for over 20 years, and understand the traffic signs well. As far as having a privilege, it works both ways. The Colts are privileged to have fans who care about the team enough to even bother voicing an opinion. Without the fans, there is no Colts. We pays the bills Jack! Believe that.

[/quote

"We pays the bills Jack!"

Really? & Jill pays mine!

[#12]

There's an easy solution to all of this.  Grigson and Chuck,  just put a reasonably balanced team on the field.  It doesn't have to consist of the Steel Curtain on defense, the '93 Cowboy O-line and Walter Payton taking handoffs - just a reasonably balanced team.  I've seen enough of Luck to know that, if you do so, he will win championships. 

[NewColtsFan]

I read it earlier. As you might imagine, I think it's nonsense. There are several examples of teams allowing coaches to play out the final year of their contract, most notably, Jason Garrett. And there are probably more examples of teams extending coaches, then firing them anyways, like Mike Smith last year. 

 

And the details are also important. Sadly, the one year offer wasn't reported originally, and a lot of people have missed that part. But this is an issue of Pagano wanting to prove his value as much as it's about Irsay not wanting to extend him yet. Maybe more. And the Colts have a fifth year option on Grigson, so he's not really lame-duck.

 

Neither of these two men are egotistical, neither of them play the blame game, they always speak in agreement, and they always take personal responsibility for what happens with this team. Pagano's comments this week about fixing the run defense strongly refute any idea that he would blame anyone else for any failures with this team. Grigson made similar comments suggesting that he holds himself accountable. I wouldn't expect either of them to point the finger at the other, under any circumstances.

 

And if Irsay decided after 2015 to get rid of one of them, I would expect him to get rid of both of them. If they don't pick up Grigson's fifth year, I would imagine a new GM would probably want to pick his own head coach. If things break badly for one of them, I think they break badly for the other also. 

 

But Florio likes to jump to conclusions and blow things out of proportion. I'm not even a little surprised that he would write this. And I don't think it's an accurate representation of how things would go between these two men and Irsay. It's entirely contrary to everything we know about them.

 

Wow.......

 

I think you misread this HORRIBLY.    Your dislike for Florio clouded your eyes.

 

He didn't say this WILL happen,  he said this COULD happen.    And it could.    What guys says today, in March,  can be different than what is said next January.   Frankly, I didn't see a word to disagree with and I'm stunned you did.

 

And Florio also noted that things worked out great for Garrett in Dallas under somewhat similar circumstances.

 

The thing that I don't like beyond the offer of a 1-year extension (I was OK with that) was that the raise was reported to be modest.

 

I mean -- seriously?    Pagano takes this team to the playoffs three straight years and goes further each year and the only thing that's offered is a modest 1-year raise?     Sorry,  but I think that's horse-pucky.    Complete nonsense and I think wrongly handled by Irsay.

 

Maybe this all works out as a master stroke of genius.   The team gets markedly better and Irsay sees enough improvement to offer an appropriate extension at an appropriate raise.   I just dislike unnecessary drama and honestly, I think this drama was completely unnecessary.

[Superman]

Wow.......

 

I think you misread this HORRIBLY.    Your dislike for Florio clouded your eyes.

 

He didn't say this WILL happen,  he said this COULD happen.    And it could.    What guys says today, in March,  can be different than what is said next January.   Frankly, I didn't see a word to disagree with and I'm stunned you did.

 

And Florio also noted that things worked out great for Garrett in Dallas under somewhat similar circumstances.

 

The thing that I don't like beyond the offer of a 1-year extension (I was OK with that) was that the raise was reported to be modest.

 

I mean -- seriously?    Pagano takes this team to the playoffs three straight years and goes further each year and the only thing that's offered is a modest 1-year raise?     Sorry,  but I think that's horse-pucky.    Complete nonsense and I think wrongly handled by Irsay.

 

Maybe this all works out as a master stroke of genius.   The team gets markedly better and Irsay sees enough improvement to offer an appropriate extension at an appropriate raise.   I just dislike unnecessary drama and honestly, I think this drama was completely unnecessary.

 

At this point, the drama is entirely imagined. This whole scene is trumped up.

 

Even if you disagree with Irsay's handling of the situation, that doesn't mean there's any drama between the three parties. This idea that Grigson and Pagano are going to go cutthroat on each other in any event is just completely foreign to what the two of them have been about over the last three years. And I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that Florio is pushing the idea. I think the idea is absurd on its merits.

 

Just because something could happen doesn't mean it will, or is even likely. Another PFT writer floated the idea that Andrew Luck could refuse to re-sign after 2015 because he feels slighted that the team isn't extending him now. How likely is that? 

 

And about Irsay's handling, I don't think it's as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. I don't understand why he would commit big money to Pagano beyond 2015. I've stated my opinion on that in this thread already. Pagano needs to show that he's not just a Phase 1 coach before he can demand more than Phase 1 money. I'm a Pagano fan, but I've been saying that expectations for this entire staff would be increased this year for awhile. This really doesn't surprise me, especially considering how Irsay moved on from Mora after four years.

 

About the money, according to this, Pagano makes more than Fox, Whisenhunt and Caldwell, who have been to the Super Bowl. He makes slightly less than Jason Garrett and Lovie Smith. A modest increase may have put him on the same level as them. He makes more than Ron Rivera, who signed an extension last year. He makes more than Rex Ryan, a retread who was a hot commodity. Other first time head coaches -- Mike Zimmer, Todd Bowles, Mike McCoy, Gus Bradley, Joe Philbin, etc. -- are paid less than Pagano. It's not like he's the lowest paid coach in the NFL, and it's not like Irsay cheaped out on him in the first place. Pagano likely wants top ten money, and that's fine, but I don't know if he can command that right now.

 

You mention the possibility that this is a stroke of genius. The other side of the coin is that the Colts could sputter in 2015, showing that Pagano isn't the right man to get the team to the next level. Again -- and again and again -- I'm a Pagano fan. But I don't see why Irsay should be offering him more than a modest increase beyond 2016 at this point. 

 

And back to the article, it's a Florio signature to write stuff like this: It also means that Grigson and Pagano could be tempted to blame each other, in the event that the 2015 season at any point unravels. Sorry to repeat myself, but that's not at all like either Grigson or Pagano, and there's ZERO reason to think that the situation would play out like that. And Florio is citing something that Kravitz said, who agrees with you. But I just don't buy it. There's been no indication that Grigson and Pagano aren't on the same page.

 

So on the subject of "horse-pucky," I think that's an appropriate description of this angle, and this article. 

[Robert Johnson]

Recipe for success...you get rid of same 'old, same old' and get some fresh thinking and energy...not to mention you might just increase Head Coach competence over Average Chuck.

or you might end up with someone worse,just curious,who are all these top notch coaches who are beating down the door to come coach here?

[Gavin]

At this point, the drama is entirely imagined. This whole scene is trumped up.

 

Even if you disagree with Irsay's handling of the situation, that doesn't mean there's any drama between the three parties. This idea that Grigson and Pagano are going to go cutthroat on each other in any event is just completely foreign to what the two of them have been about over the last three years. And I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that Florio is pushing the idea. I think the idea is absurd on its merits.

 

Just because something could happen doesn't mean it will, or is even likely. Another PFT writer floated the idea that Andrew Luck could refuse to re-sign after 2015 because he feels slighted that the team isn't extending him now. How likely is that? 

 

And about Irsay's handling, I don't think it's as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. I don't understand why he would commit big money to Pagano beyond 2015. I've stated my opinion on that in this thread already. Pagano needs to show that he's not just a Phase 1 coach before he can demand more than Phase 1 money. I'm a Pagano fan, but I've been saying that expectations for this entire staff would be increased this year for awhile. This really doesn't surprise me, especially considering how Irsay moved on from Mora after four years.

 

About the money, according to this, Pagano makes more than Fox, Whisenhunt and Caldwell, who have been to the Super Bowl. He makes slightly less than Jason Garrett and Lovie Smith. A modest increase may have put him on the same level as them. He makes more than Ron Rivera, who signed an extension last year. He makes more than Rex Ryan, a retread who was a hot commodity. Other first time head coaches -- Mike Zimmer, Todd Bowles, Mike McCoy, Gus Bradley, Joe Philbin, etc. -- are paid less than Pagano. It's not like he's the lowest paid coach in the NFL, and it's not like Irsay cheaped out on him in the first place. Pagano likely wants top ten money, and that's fine, but I don't know if he can command that right now.

 

You mention the possibility that this is a stroke of genius. The other side of the coin is that the Colts could sputter in 2015, showing that Pagano isn't the right man to get the team to the next level. Again -- and again and again -- I'm a Pagano fan. But I don't see why Irsay should be offering him more than a modest increase beyond 2016 at this point. 

 

And back to the article, it's a Florio signature to write stuff like this: It also means that Grigson and Pagano could be tempted to blame each other, in the event that the 2015 season at any point unravels. Sorry to repeat myself, but that's not at all like either Grigson or Pagano, and there's ZERO reason to think that the situation would play out like that. And Florio is citing something that Kravitz said, who agrees with you. But I just don't buy it. There's been no indication that Grigson and Pagano aren't on the same page.

 

So on the subject of "horse-pucky," I think that's an appropriate description of this angle, and this article.

"There's been no indication that Grigson and Pagano aren't on the same page."

Not that I am buying into this whole "Make or break year for Pagano" deal....But I think in all likelihood we as fans would not know for a fact if there was some dissension between the two...Im not saying that their is of course.....And maybe some Factual articles or breaking news of some sort would come out and make it known that their was some issues (such as NFL Network or ESPN).....

But I think they would keep that locked behind closed doors at all cost...I don't really see that there is an issue with them given that the team just came off of a season where they went to the AFC Championship game....But we do keep getting obliterated by the Pats....and we know losing to the point where the team was not even competitive (especially multiple times in a row now)can ruffle Jims feathers

[esmort]

At this point, the drama is entirely imagined. This whole scene is trumped up.

 

Even if you disagree with Irsay's handling of the situation, that doesn't mean there's any drama between the three parties. This idea that Grigson and Pagano are going to go cutthroat on each other in any event is just completely foreign to what the two of them have been about over the last three years. And I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that Florio is pushing the idea. I think the idea is absurd on its merits.

 

Just because something could happen doesn't mean it will, or is even likely. Another PFT writer floated the idea that Andrew Luck could refuse to re-sign after 2015 because he feels slighted that the team isn't extending him now. How likely is that? 

 

And about Irsay's handling, I don't think it's as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. I don't understand why he would commit big money to Pagano beyond 2015. I've stated my opinion on that in this thread already. Pagano needs to show that he's not just a Phase 1 coach before he can demand more than Phase 1 money. I'm a Pagano fan, but I've been saying that expectations for this entire staff would be increased this year for awhile. This really doesn't surprise me, especially considering how Irsay moved on from Mora after four years.

 

About the money, according to this, Pagano makes more than Fox, Whisenhunt and Caldwell, who have been to the Super Bowl. He makes slightly less than Jason Garrett and Lovie Smith. A modest increase may have put him on the same level as them. He makes more than Ron Rivera, who signed an extension last year. He makes more than Rex Ryan, a retread who was a hot commodity. Other first time head coaches -- Mike Zimmer, Todd Bowles, Mike McCoy, Gus Bradley, Joe Philbin, etc. -- are paid less than Pagano. It's not like he's the lowest paid coach in the NFL, and it's not like Irsay cheaped out on him in the first place. Pagano likely wants top ten money, and that's fine, but I don't know if he can command that right now.

 

You mention the possibility that this is a stroke of genius. The other side of the coin is that the Colts could sputter in 2015, showing that Pagano isn't the right man to get the team to the next level. Again -- and again and again -- I'm a Pagano fan. But I don't see why Irsay should be offering him more than a modest increase beyond 2016 at this point. 

 

And back to the article, it's a Florio signature to write stuff like this: It also means that Grigson and Pagano could be tempted to blame each other, in the event that the 2015 season at any point unravels. Sorry to repeat myself, but that's not at all like either Grigson or Pagano, and there's ZERO reason to think that the situation would play out like that. And Florio is citing something that Kravitz said, who agrees with you. But I just don't buy it. There's been no indication that Grigson and Pagano aren't on the same page.

 

So on the subject of "horse-pucky," I think that's an appropriate description of this angle, and this article. 

 

I agree, I don't think Irsay is disrespecting anyone or "painting himself into a corner".  IMO he is simply saying "you know what my vision was for this team when you were hired .... now show me you are ready to take the team to the next level and I will be more than happy to pull out the check book."  

 

He wasn't so specific in his stated expectations that he "painted himself into a corner" ... Irsay's idea of improvement and moving in the right direction may be totally different than everyone elses ... and the things he did specifically say he wanted to see improved is the glaringly obvious things that almost every fan, every media talking head, and even Pagano & Grigson realize are big problem areas. 

 

You know Irsay is not afraid to spend the money, but I think he learned a lesson from dealing with the Polians ... he realizes he should have gotten control of that situation sooner, and has no intention of letting the organization get to that point again before he steps in. I say good for him; I think Irsay is a top notch owner!

[Superman]

"There's been no indication that Grigson and Pagano aren't on the same page."

Not that I am buying into this whole "Make or break year for Pagano" deal....But I think in all likelihood we as fans would not know for a fact if there was some dissension between the two...Im not saying that their is of course.....And maybe some Factual articles or breaking news of some sort would come out and make it known that their was some issues (such as NFL Network or ESPN).....

But I think they would keep that locked behind closed doors at all cost...I don't really see that there is an issue with them given that the team just came off of a season where they went to the AFC Championship game....But we do keep getting obliterated by the Pats....and we know losing to the point where the team was not even competitive (especially multiple times in a row now)can ruffle Jims feathers

 

Sure, it would be hard to know that there was any dissent between the two. But we pretty much have the opposite. Aside from a conveniently timed comment from Kravitz today that there's a disconnect between the today, Grigson and Pagano have been practically saying the same thing every step of the way. They speak the same language. They're singing the same song. 

 

If there is any problem between the two, it's imperceptible. They've created a situation where it looks like everyone is in agreement all the time.

[Gavin]

Sure, it would be hard to know that there was any dissent between the two. But we pretty much have the opposite. Aside from a conveniently timed comment from Kravitz today that there's a disconnect between the today, Grigson and Pagano have been practically saying the same thing every step of the way. They speak the same language. They're singing the same song. 

 

If there is any problem between the two, it's imperceptible. They've created a situation where it looks like everyone is in agreement all the time.

True...But with jobs on the line with every win or loss that adds up or decision made you do have males that want to do or say what they can to ensure job security in a field where if your not pumping out SB's or playoff appearances year after year at least your usually here today/gone tomorrow (Though their are some exceptions) so heads can butt at times...Not a bad thing if cooler heads prevail

Like I said..Im not buying into it but we are going into year 4 of this regime and I find it hard to believe they have been on board with each other with every decision ever made...Possible sure...The odds are overwhelmingly against that though...Probably nothing in the end but I guess Im just taking the wait and see approach with this one given some of the things that have gone on on the field