Colts to sign Trent Cole, 2 years, $16m (update)

[backshoulderfade]

Why is it incorrect? Please explain.

Disruption is production. Cole was particularly disruptive. Sure he may be a little overpriced, but it's not a bad signing.

[Dark Superman]

Disruption is production. Cole was particularly disruptive. Sure he may be a little overpriced, but it's not a bad signing.

I agree. As a pure pass rusher, he's beyond anyone on our roster not named Mathis. I like the addition, Newsome, Werner and Walden can all learn from Mathis and Cole.

Cam Johnson as well.

[gacker65]

If disruption is production, the why is a lot of people, on this forum, so hard on Werner?  Werner was causing disruption last season, but not getting the sack.

 

I am not against the signing, but am against the money.  Cole does not start, IMO, unless RM can't start.  If RM starts, Cole becomes the 3rd wheel, as we should not take snaps from Newsome.

 

The question becomes, if RM can start, what do you do with Cole?   Remember, Walden's numbers was as good or better than Cole's and Walden plays the Sam OLB.

[backshoulderfade]

If disruption is production, the why is a lot of people, on this forum, so hard on Werner? Werner was causing disruption last season, but not getting the sack.

I am not against the signing, but am against the money. Cole does not start, IMO, unless RM can't start. If RM starts, Cole becomes the 3rd wheel, as we should not take snaps from Newsome.

The question becomes, if RM can start, what do you do with Cole? Remember, Walden's numbers was as good or better than Cole's and Walden plays the Sam OLB.

Werner did not get much production against the pass with heavy blitzing.

[gacker65]

Werner did not get much production against the pass with heavy blitzing.

I understand this.  This isn't about Werner, after last year.  This is about Newsome and his progression this coming season.  Werner, IMO, is going to play Sam OLB behind Walden.  Werner has progressed well at Sam OLB.

 

IMO, this becomes, if RM starts, do we regress Newsome's progress by playing Cole ahead of him.  This is why I say we way over paid Cole, because if RM starts, and Cole plays, we are taking snaps from Newsome and slowing Newsome's progress.

[backshoulderfade]

I understand this. This isn't about Werner, after last year. This is about Newsome and his progression this coming season. Werner, IMO, is going to play Sam OLB behind Walden. Werner has progressed well at Sam OLB.

IMO, this becomes, if RM starts, do we regress Newsome's progress by playing Cole ahead of him. This is why I say we way over paid Cole, because if RM starts, and Cole plays, we are taking snaps from Newsome and slowing Newsome's progress.

I don't think Mathis can be counted on. This is a matter of insurance and Cole is a damn good insurance policy by my estimations. Newsome will get his, I'm sure. I expect Cole to slide inside some on pass rushing downs.

[Gavin]

I understand this.  This isn't about Werner, after last year.  This is about Newsome and his progression this coming season.  Werner, IMO, is going to play Sam OLB behind Walden.  Werner has progressed well at Sam OLB.

 

IMO, this becomes, if RM starts, do we regress Newsome's progress by playing Cole ahead of him.  This is why I say we way over paid Cole, because if RM starts, and Cole plays, we are taking snaps from Newsome and slowing Newsome's progress.

To me it came down to 2 things:

 

1.If Mathis is not what he used to be or unfortunately gets hurt again and we put the same unit of Linebackers out there then the team takes the chance of having to create its own pass rush through blitzing, Newsome could step up as a pass rusher but if he don't and Mathis goes down or is not the same then were in trouble

 

2.Lets say we don't pick up Trent Cole and Mathis don't get hurt....Whos to say Newsome  has put on the strength and will be able to set the edge as needed? I know Cole can pass rush and set a violent edge....I watched some of his games last year on Rewind...He did not have the sack numbers because he had far less chances, He dropped back quite a bit

 

Now Im not saying Im all for stunting Newtons development.......Im sure as hell not but I think Pagano and staffs primary reason for this is to allow him to get stronger, Pagano and company know he can rush the passer, They saw it just like me and you....But they also had to have seen him getting overpowered on the edge and being undisciplined at times not holding it. Sitting him allows him to keep working in the weight room without having be forced into action before he is ready, I think Newsome finds himself on the field anyway actually sometimes

[Dustin]

If disruption is production, the why is a lot of people, on this forum, so hard on Werner? Werner was causing disruption last season, but not getting the sack.

I am not against the signing, but am against the money. Cole does not start, IMO, unless RM can't start. If RM starts, Cole becomes the 3rd wheel, as we should not take snaps from Newsome.

The question becomes, if RM can start, what do you do with Cole? Remember, Walden's numbers was as good or better than Cole's and Walden plays the Sam OLB.

Werner wasn't causing disruption.

[gacker65]

I don't think Mathis can be counted on. This is a matter of insurance and Cole is a damn good insurance policy by my estimations. Newsome will get his, I'm sure. I expect Cole to slide inside some on pass rushing downs.

We will have to agree to diagree.  You can't change my mind and I can't change your mind.

 

To me it came down to 2 things:

 

1.If Mathis is not what he used to be or unfortunately gets hurt again and we put the same unit of Linebackers out there then the team takes the chance of having to create its own pass rush through blitzing, Newsome could step up as a pass rusher but if he don't and Mathis goes down or is not the same then were in trouble

 

2.Lets say we don't pick up Trent Cole and Mathis don't get hurt....Whos to say Newsome  has put on the strength and will be able to set the edge as needed? I know Cole can pass rush and set a violent edge....I watched some of his games last year on Rewind...He did not have the sack numbers because he had far less chances, He dropped back quite a bit

 

Now Im not saying Im all for stunting Newtons development.......Im sure as hell not but I think Pagano and staffs primary reason for this is to allow him to get stronger, Pagano and company know he can rush the passer, They saw it just like me and you....But they also had to have seen him getting overpowered on the edge and being undisciplined at times not holding it. Sitting him allows him to keep working in the weight room without having be forced into action before he is ready, I think Newsome finds himself on the field anyway actually sometime

I understand what you are saying.

 

Now, let's get passed Cole's time as a DE.  For the last 2 years, Cole has played more like a Sam OLB not as a Rush OLB.  We did not bring him in as a Sam OLB, but as a Rush OLB.  We do not a Sam OLB as Walden has been good and Werner is progressing well as a Sam OLB, IMO.

 

You said that Rush OLB needs to set the edge, but No one complained about RM not setting the well while getting 15+ sacks in 2013.

 

I did not say it was a bad signing, I don't like what we are paying him.  We are giving Cole non elite pass rush starter money for, IMO, a rotational or 3rd string back-up.  I see rotational if RM does not come back or gets hurt.  I see 3rd string back-up if RM is good to go on opening day.

 

This is how I see Cole's signing.

[backshoulderfade]

We

What?

[backshoulderfade]

We will have to agree to diagree. You can't change my mind and I can't change your mind.

I suspected as much. And you are right, 8m per is too much for a situational rusher. Cole will not be that, IMO.

[gacker65]

Werner wasn't causing disruption.

Dustin, you have surprised me with this.  You normally cut straight to the heart of things.

 

We both know that Werner is a non factor in this dicussion.  We did not sign Cole as a Sam OLB, but as a Rush OLB.

 

The parties involved in this is RM and Newsome.  If RM is not ready for opening day, Cole and Newsome do a rotation.  If RM is ready opening day, IMO, Cole is a 3rd wheel.

 

As for Werner, we both know, he will rotate with Walden at Sam OLB. 

[Dustin]

Dustin, you have surprised me with this. You normally cut straight to the heart of things.

We both know that Werner is a non factor in this dicussion. We did not sign Cole as a Sam OLB, but as a Rush OLB.

The parties involved in this is RM and Newsome. If RM is not ready for opening day, Cole and Newsome do a rotation. If RM is ready opening day, IMO, Cole is a 3rd wheel.

As for Werner, we both know, he will rotate with Walden at Sam OLB.

We used a bunch of 3 and 4 OLB sets near the end of the season. It will probably continue this year. Every player will see adequate time.

[GoColts8818]

I don't think Mathis can be counted on. This is a matter of insurance and Cole is a damn good insurance policy by my estimations. Newsome will get his, I'm sure. I expect Cole to slide inside some on pass rushing downs.

ive been sayin and still feel the Colts needed to approach this season like they will not have Mathis and anything they get from him will be a bonus. Adding Cole shows me that's how they are doing it, Cole and Newsome should be a good pass rushing duo. Adding anything from Mathis could be down right scary.

[LockeDown]

Either Pagano or Grigson said, "You can't have too many pass rushers".   I'd rather have too many than not enough like last year. 

[jabbanobadda]

I like this signing.

[NewEra]

Not having Mathis out there last year was a huge blow. Don't want to repeat that again.

[Jason_]

I understand this. This isn't about Werner, after last year. This is about Newsome and his progression this coming season. Werner, IMO, is going to play Sam OLB behind Walden. Werner has progressed well at Sam OLB.

IMO, this becomes, if RM starts, do we regress Newsome's progress by playing Cole ahead of him. This is why I say we way over paid Cole, because if RM starts, and Cole plays, we are taking snaps from Newsome and slowing Newsome's progress.

Imo the odds are far more likely that Cole is the starter and mathis becomes the situational pass rusher rather than the other way around

[gacker65]

Imo the odds are far more likely that Cole is the starter and mathis becomes the situational pass rusher rather than the other way around

If so, then our Defense will be no better than last year.

[Warhorse]

Good thing there are fans who come out and dislike this signing...that way they display how wise they are if everyone remains healthy. But if just one of those rush specialists goes down for the season...this move will be brilliant. Oh ya....as far as the money it cost the Colts to get Cole, that is the going rate for a player of his caliber, regardless of what fans think.

 

Good move. Our having to blitz to get pressure, can be our undoing for just a play or two.....and that is all it takes to lose in the NFL, a couple of missed defensive plays.

[Warhorse]

If so, then our Defense will be no better than last year.

???

[Warhorse]

ive been sayin and still feel the Colts needed to approach this season like they will not have Mathis and anything they get from him will be a bonus. Adding Cole shows me that's how they are doing it, Cole and Newsome should be a good pass rushing duo. Adding anything from Mathis could be down right scary.

Thinking like a good GM.

[gacker65]

???

What is the question?  I am questioning whether Cole is going to be a good pass rusher or not.  From what I have seen, he would be a better Sam OLB if we didn't have Walden and Werner.

[Jason_]

What is the question? I am questioning whether Cole is going to be a good pass rusher or not. From what I have seen, he would be a better Sam OLB if we didn't have Walden and Werner.

We're not seeing the same thing then

[gacker65]

We're not seeing the same thing then

I guess, I looked past Cole's play at DE, which was good.  I'm looking at his play as rush OLB for the last 2 years, which has been worse than Walden's and better than Werner's.  Cole for the last 2 years has played like a Sam OLB not a Rush OLB.

[achcolts]

does anyone think we kind of overpaid?

 

edit: still like the signing, just wondering. not familiar with LB $$ numbers

[gacker65]

We used a bunch of 3 and 4 OLB sets near the end of the season. It will probably continue this year. Every player will see adequate time.

I hope you are right.  i just hope you are right.

[Dustin]

I have no idea why anybody would think a guy who's going to make $8M isn't going to see a lot of plays. If anybody is left out, it should be Werner, who's the worst of the 5 (Mathis, Cole, Walden, Werner, and Newsome)

[NewEra]

I have no idea why anybody would think a guy who's going to make $8M isn't going to see a lot of plays. If anybody is left out, it should be Werner, who's the worst of the 5 (Mathis, Cole, Walden, Werner, and Newsome)

He may be the worst of the bunch in pass rush but he's better than most in run defense. I think switching him to Waldens side will help big time.

[Dustin]

He may be the worst of the bunch in pass rush but he's better than most in run defense. I think switching him to Waldens side will help big time.

 

I guess but Walden is still rushing the passer 70% of the time on pass plays. 

[NewEra]

I guess but Walden is still rushing the passer 70% of the time on pass plays.

What I've noticed from Werner is he's trying the stuff he used in college. He doesn't have much pash rush moves. He just try's to bull rush and that crap is not working in the NFL. At least if that's your only move. I think he can still be good but he needs to add a lot more tricks to his bag.