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Possible trades?


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Dion Jordan straight up for Bjoern Werner would be a total robbery on our part. 

 

IMO It'd be total robbery on THEIR part. Dion Jordan may be a good athlete, but a horrible FOOTBALL PLAYER.

Werner's the opposite.

 

I see Dion Jordan fizzling out of the league soon.

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Don't think he's all that , but cordalle Patterson. Maybe with a good quarterback he can make something happen, and can help us in the return game. Cristian ponder ? Come on man!!! I can't believe they chose that guy in the top 15 that year..

I never understood that pick either Ponder wasn't much in college

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morris claiborne comes to mind

The difference in my mind between Vontae and someone like Claiborne is that Vontae actually played well on the field for decent amount of time, he just had issues off the field and attitude problems that contributed to him playing poorly on the field sometimes too. He just wasnt consistent and had the issues to go with that.

Claiborne on the other hand straight up hasnt played well. He hasnt shown much of any flashes of brilliance for any amount of continuous lengths of time AND he has some character issues etc. He pretty much just hasnt lived up to his ability from College. Some players never make the transition... If i was a GM (which i am clearly not and nowhere near qualified, but for what my 2 cents are worth) I would stay away from Claiborne.

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The difference in my mind between Vontae and someone like Claiborne is that Vontae actually played well on the field for decent amount of time, he just had issues off the field and attitude problems that contributed to him playing poorly on the field sometimes too. He just wasnt consistent and had the issues to go with that.

Claiborne on the other hand straight up hasnt played well. He hasnt shown much of any flashes of brilliance for any amount of continuous lengths of time AND he has some character issues etc. He pretty much just hasnt lived up to his ability from College. Some players never make the transition... If i was a GM (which i am clearly not and nowhere near qualified, but for what my 2 cents are worth) I would stay away from Claiborne.

I did say id only give a 7th round pick lol

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IMO It'd be total robbery on THEIR part. Dion Jordan may be a good athlete, but a horrible FOOTBALL PLAYER.

Werner's the opposite.

 

I see Dion Jordan fizzling out of the league soon.

 

No, Werner is a bad athlete and a bad player. At least Jordan has some potential. 

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Don't think he's all that , but cordalle Patterson. Maybe with a good quarterback he can make something happen, and can help us in the return game. Cristian ponder ? Come on man!!! I can't believe they chose that guy in the top 15 that year..

 

Patterson is Percy Harvin 2.0.  Really fast but doesn't have the receiving skills.  Only real value is gaget plays designed to get the ball into his hands and hope his speed can cause problems.

 

Their speed and athletic ability make them extremely tempting and you see the possibilities when they use that speed to make a big explosive play.  But in the end they don't really do much for you.

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Hmm. Trade targets?

 

I'd look at Kenny Vaccaro with the Saints. We could probably get him for a 3rd rounder or less, and he's a solid cover man. Played Nickle corner his first year, but struggled with traditional safety and got benched. He could use some Pagano in his life. 

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Patterson is Percy Harvin 2.0. Really fast but doesn't have the receiving skills. Only real value is gaget plays designed to get the ball into his hands and hope his speed can cause problems.

Their speed and athletic ability make them extremely tempting and you see the possibilities when they use that speed to make a big explosive play. But in the end they don't really do much for you.

i understand all that. Obviously we shouldn't give a 2nd rd pick for him like vontae, but a late. His services would be used on special teams, and maybe running back/jet sweep type of plays
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Milliner and Claiborne are not even worth discussing. I don't want the team to give up even a bologna sandwich for either of them

 

Claiborne at the very least is worth discussing.  I'd be all for taking a chance on him for the right price

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i understand all that. Obviously we shouldn't give a 2nd rd pick for him like vontae, but a late. His services would be used on special teams, and maybe running back/jet sweep type of plays

 

I honestly don't think he's worth rostering to be honest.

 

Any time you bring him in the defense is gonna look for the jet sweep.

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Claiborne at the very least is worth discussing. I'd be all for taking a chance on him for the right price

this everyone says he hasn't shown flashes but that's cause he has never fit the cowboys defense either plus Pagano is great at coaching up CBs
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this everyone says he hasn't shown flashes but that's cause he has never fit the cowboys defense either plus Pagano is great at coaching up CBs

Well to be fair he did fit the Cowboys defense when he was drafted, but it was right after his rookie year that Dallas fired rob Ryan and brought in kiffin and that's when they changed to the zone defense...which doesn't fit Claiborne nearly as well. :)
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Patterson is Percy Harvin 2.0.  Really fast but doesn't have the receiving skills.  Only real value is gaget plays designed to get the ball into his hands and hope his speed can cause problems.

 

Their speed and athletic ability make them extremely tempting and you see the possibilities when they use that speed to make a big explosive play.  But in the end they don't really do much for you.

 

Yeah, Percy Harvin isn't like that at all. 

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Well to be fair he did fit the Cowboys defense when he was drafted, but it was right after his rookie year that Dallas fired rob Ryan and brought in kiffin and that's when they changed to the zone defense...which doesn't fit Claiborne nearly as well. :)

yep I'd like to see what he could do with continued work in a man to man. Also we helped Vontae turn his career around. I think with Pagano and even Vontae himself helping him out there's a chance he could really turn it around
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Werner was a straight up beast in college as a 4-3 DE. He can set the edge and make a sure tackle. He's not a type of LB that can change directions quickly or smoothly but he has football smarts and is a sure tackler. Deion was flash, and the Fins traded up to get him. Werner is basically learning the position and gets raves from current players, he's not horrible, he's not bad either. He might not be #1 pick quality, but he's a good player that will help us..

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Werner was a straight up beast in college as a 4-3 DE. He can set the edge and make a sure tackle. He's not a type of LB that can change directions quickly or smoothly but he has football smarts and is a sure tackler. Deion was flash, and the Fins traded up to get him. Werner is basically learning the position and gets raves from current players, he's not horrible, he's not bad either. He might not be #1 pick quality, but he's a good player that will help us..

 

Finally, someone who gets it.

 

Dion Jordan is a pure ATHLETE, not a football player. He does not have a track history of success, not even during college days. A 3-4th rounder at best but the Dolphins got stupid and spent their #3 pick on a project athlete instead of a football player. 

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Werner for Jordan sounds great. It's a low-risk, high-reward opportunity for both teams. Jordan was drafted by Ireland, not the current GM so the Dolphins may not even want him and he's not a scheme fit. Werner isn't a scheme fit but even if he failed at 4-3 DE in Miami, he could be tolerable at 4-3 OLB.

 

I wouldn't trade a bag of chips for Claibourne. But if we had to give something to trade, it'd be a 7th rounder or one of our worst players.

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Werner for Jordan sounds great. It's a low-risk, high-reward opportunity for both teams. Jordan was drafted by Ireland, not the current GM so the Dolphins may not even want him and he's not a scheme fit. Werner isn't a scheme fit but even if he failed at 4-3 DE in Miami, he could be tolerable at 4-3 OLB.

I wouldn't trade a bag of chips for Claibourne. But if we had to give something to trade, it'd be a 7th rounder or one of our worst players.

see Jason's post above our mine Claiborne dont fit the zone scheme they run that's why he is playing very poor
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Werner was a straight up beast in college as a 4-3 DE. He can set the edge and make a sure tackle. He's not a type of LB that can change directions quickly or smoothly but he has football smarts and is a sure tackler. Deion was flash, and the Fins traded up to get him. Werner is basically learning the position and gets raves from current players, he's not horrible, he's not bad either. He might not be #1 pick quality, but he's a good player that will help us..

Why is it that fans just have to describe a player through a filter of the round in which they were drafted? I'll bet my hind end that coaches don't do that crap. After they are drafted and assessed for their ability to start, draft round is the last thing on a coaches mind. Only fans describe a first round selection that settles in with 2nd round ability as trash.

 

It reveals a lot about one's understanding of the game.

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Why is it that fans just have to describe a player through a filter of the round in which they were drafted? I'll bet my hind end that coaches don't do that crap. After they are drafted and assessed for their ability to start, draft round is the last thing on a coaches mind. Only fans describe a first round selection that settles in with 2nd round ability as trash.

It reveals a lot about one's understanding of the game.

He doesn't have 2nd round ability. More like 4th-5th.

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He doesn't have 2nd round ability. More like 4th-5th.

That whole round designation thing is odd to me. Like my post said, I dont think coaches view through a filter like fans do. Has he become an elite player? No. Has he become a great player? Not yet. Is he trash? Absolutely not.

 

But he can play at the NFL level, which is what every GM hopes when they make any selection. The idea that a first round player needs to play like a first round player, and a second round player needs to play like a second round player, and so on and so on....is to me.....over analyzation of a simple concept.....draft players who can help the team. Some turn out to be elite, some great, some serviceable, some failures. If a front office and their staff viewed drafted players like the above description, I would consider them highly incompetent. 

 

But we all are allowed our own descriptions, mine to mine, yours to yours. Sorry about the long winded reply.

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That whole round designation thing is odd to me. Like my post said, I dont think coaches view through a filter like fans do. Has he become an elite player? No. Has he become a great player? Not yet. Is he trash? Absolutely not.

 

But he can play at the NFL level, which is what every GM hopes when they make any selection. The idea that a first round player needs to play like a first round player, and a second round player needs to play like a second round player, and so on and so on....is to me.....over analyzation of a simple concept.....draft players who can help the team. Some turn out to be elite, some great, some serviceable, some failures. If a front office and their staff viewed drafted players like the above description, I would consider them highly incompetent. 

 

But we all are allowed our own descriptions, mine to mine, yours to yours. Sorry about the long winded reply.

 

You're the one who brought up designations. 

 

As for Werner, I don't know how anyone can think he's been anything but bad. Even the coaching staff had him as a healthy scratch in this eras most important game. He's even been called out publicly by the GM. Not the mark of a good player. 

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You're the one who brought up designations. 

 

As for Werner, I don't know how anyone can think he's been anything but bad. Even the coaching staff had him as a healthy scratch in this eras most important game. He's even been called out publicly by the GM. Not the mark of a good player. 

 

When did Werner get "called out" by Grigson? 

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When did Werner get "called out" by Grigson? 

 

Actually,  it was Pagano who "called him out"....

 

And it was Grigson who tried to walk it back a bit and try to put lipstick on the pig.

 

Tried to make it sound like what happened in the AFC championship game was just an innocent numbers problem that Werner fell victim to.

 

Sorry,  that might be a believable thing if it weren't for the fact that Werner is a former 1st round draft pick.   I wasn't buying what Grigson was selling....

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Forget Claiborne, I think Justin Gilbert(yea, another Cleveland trade)has a higher ceiling than Claiborne. Same measure-ables, but an electric punt returner. If we give up Bjorn' Werner, we're getting rid of 1st round dead weight, and getting a great successor to Greg Toler.

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Forget Claiborne, I think Justin Gilbert(yea, another Cleveland trade)has a higher ceiling than Claiborne. Same measure-ables, but an electric punt returner. If we give up Bjorn' Werner, we're getting rid of 1st round dead weight, and getting a great successor to Greg Toler.

not really a realistic trade
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What Grigson said he had to "hit the weight room" or something to that effect.

 

ah gotcha, yeah I believe that was after his rookie year, both he and Pagano said that Werner needed to hit the weight room to improve his overall strength.

 

Actually,  it was Pagano who "called him out"....

 

And it was Grigson who tried to walk it back a bit and try to put lipstick on the pig.

 

Tried to make it sound like what happened in the AFC championship game was just an innocent numbers problem that Werner fell victim to.

 

Sorry,  that might be a believable thing if it weren't for the fact that Werner is a former 1st round draft pick.   I wasn't buying what Grigson was selling....

 

That's actually not what Grigson said.  He said that they had noticed him making solid improvements up until a certain point late in the season, and then he hit a wall and was "working through some things".  He said that, due to that, they felt it best to deactivate him and go with the extra CB.

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ah gotcha, yeah I believe that was after his rookie year, both he and Pagano said that Werner needed to hit the weight room to improve his overall strength.

 

 

That's actually not what Grigson said.  He said that they had noticed him making solid improvements up until a certain point late in the season, and then he hit a wall and was "working through some things".  He said that, due to that, they felt it best to deactivate him and go with the extra CB.

 

I believe Grigson tried to explain the need to deactivate him based on our cornerback problem.   I think the "working through some things" was code for....   "he's not playing well"...     after all,  Pagano could've said the same thing,  but he didn't.

 

Like I said,  Grigson was trying to walk back Pagano's comments.   Even if you think he was trying to throw Werner a bone by covering for him with "working through things..."    I'm sorry,  I'm just not buying it.    Not for a 1st round pick in the biggest game of the year/career.

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