Grigson's Combine comments

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

There's still a balance to be aimed for. That's probably the internal struggle Grigson has been dealing with, and maybe having the discussions with the rest of the staff as well.

 

Spending money on hot free agents isn't a silver bullet. I picked up on the 'more aggressive acquisitions' angle also, but we've seen tons of teams spend money on offensive linemen, and still have poor line play. Almost all of them, as a matter of fact. Almost invariably, the best offensive lines are homegrown, and a large percentage of teams with good line play are using players drafted in mid to late rounds. Almost invariably, it took time -- several seasons -- to achieve a consistently high level of line play.

 

So Grigson has to balance between developing the guys you have -- and the best way to do that is to put them on the field -- and upgrading with new talent and high draft picks. I'm sure part of him just wants to grab a vet in free agency to be a starter, but he also knows that there's no guarantee that said starter will actually upgrade the line (Cherilus, Thomas, and a host of other notable free agent linemen in recent years, including Andy Levitre, who was a huge favorite around here a couple years ago). 

 

It's not an exact science, despite the insistence of some here. "Why hasn't Grigson fixed the line, it's been three years!" Because it's really, really hard to build a good offensive line.

 

Just to throw another big money name out there, Alex Mack! This entire forum wanted Grigs to pursue with a fat pay day. Had Grigs signed him to a mega deal and he ended up on IR, a large sum of this forms users would be calling for Grigs's head on a stake.

 

Grigs has taken the steps to improve this roster at every single position. I dont believe he has standed pat on any spot on the roster since day 1.

[sundance75]

It has been established that you don't watch the games so how is it you know how well Shipley was or was not doing?  Secondly, Shipley is a nice roster guy who can play multiple positions but he is limited in his ability.  You know what he is and know that you can do better.  Now try to follow along here - Harrison's ceiling is higher.  So give him a shot thinking he will be better in December than October.  

Harrison's ceiling is not higher than Shipley's and never will be

[Colts_Fan12]

Harrison's ceiling is not higher than Shipley's and never will be

yes it is? He was an UDFA dear god some of you expected him to be an all pro he is strong as an ox I will never know where some of you got that Shipley is this all pro pro bowl center

[crazycolt1]

For the first time in disappointed in Grigson. If he is just now realizing how important the lines are in winning a championship or even games, it's a sad c statement from him, especially since he played the position. That's all I've ever said, you can't run without an oline. It doesn't matter who is back there if you don't have a line.

If this is the case, what was his philosophy before this?

You need to read the whole statement in it's entirety to get what he was saying. Just picking a small part of what was said is being narrow minded IMO. Did you even read the whole interview? Or just pick up on what you wanted to be negative about? There is such a thing as context. You seem to pick and choose and make up your own context. Before you get all bent out of shape with my comment go back and read the whole thing over and maybe you can understand not just my point but a few others as well.

[crazycolt1]

Well then that goes without saying. If that was their conviction before, he failed at it.

Sorry dude, you must be on the same wavelength as TKnignt24. Everyone seems to get exactly what was said and meant in the interview. Except you two.

[jskinnz]

Harrison's ceiling is not higher than Shipley's and never will be

 

Yeah, that is not really close to accurate.

[pacolts56]

Let me try to qualify the Grigson's statement in an attempt to get through to those who lack the common sense to think that getting good in the trenches has been an afterthought until now...

The NFL's makeup does not allow for a team to be elite everywhere. Some things need to be prioritized over others, and different teams use different methods in the endless attempt to gain the upper hand.

Grigson has made it clear from day one that they need to compete in the trenches, and he has demonstrated several examples of that commitment... drafting multiple linemen in early rounds, the big money signings of Gosder Cherilus and Art Jones etc.

This was not a eureka moment for Grigson and his staff (as some of you closet GMs, who have had all the answers all along, seem to believe), it was an acknowledgement that even greater priority needs to be placed in the trenches, probably at the expense of other areas of the team.

We have quite a few needs on this team, and those holes need to be filled to give us balance. However, I expect, from these comments, that the trenches will be prioritised above all others. Whether that is through taking O-Lineman or D-Lineman in the first round, or investing significant cap space in one or two in free agency, expect changes up front.

Well said....and his acquisitions of Ahmad Bradshaw and that unnamed "rolling ball of butcher knives" (that turned out to be butter knives) also show his and Pagano's attempt at a physical approach at RB.

Unfortunately, they bet their chips on one otherwise very good RB who can't stay healthy....and another guy who, in the final analysis, showed exactly how badly he needs an absolutely dominant O-line in front of him.

Grigson and Pagano have the right idea with a balanced and physical attack. Hopefully, they can cut down on the whiffs going forward.

Easier said than done.

[GoColts8818]

Harrison's ceiling is not higher than Shipley's and never will be

i think the Colts disagree with you which is why they stuck with him. With that said I think holmes is viewed as the starter going into camp.

[Narcosys]

Sorry dude, you must be on the same wavelength as TKnignt24. Everyone seems to get exactly what was said and meant in the interview. Except you two.

You're a day late and a dollar short.

[Dark Superman]

So the Colts are going to sign Suh, Hardy and Peterson?

I'm kidding..

[Dark Superman]

I haven't been this excited for free agency in my entire life.

[Dark Superman]

i think the Colts disagree with you which is why they stuck with him. With that said I think holmes is viewed as the starter going into camp.

I'm not a fan of Harrison, but I agree with you. How can you determine a guy's ceiling this early in his career?

[Dark Superman]

Harrison's ceiling is not higher than Shipley's and never will be

I disagree. And I'm not even a fan of Harrison.

[iLoveMyBoys]

Wassup guys ive been looking at these forums for years as a fan of the colts and finally decided to make one today. How do i post my own thread/topic for everyone else to reply to? Please help and thank you

[Nadine]

Wassup guys ive been looking at these forums for years as a fan of the colts and finally decided to make one today. How do i post my own thread/topic for everyone else to reply to? Please help and thank you

Hi Ivorysdad & Welcome 

For your first 10 posts you can post 5 replies per 24 hour period.  You cannot create a thread and also your posts have to be approved before going live.  Sorry for the inconvenience but we've found that it keeps down the trouble.

 

After 10 posts you can create threads so, you can be up and running in as little as two days

[iLoveMyBoys]

Ok appreciate the help Nadine

[crazycolt1]

You're a day late and a dollar short.

Not really. It was you who refused to understand the interview when many others tried explaining it to you. Your negativity just takes over and you have nothing left but contempt.

[Narcosys]

Not really. It was you who refused to understand the interview when many others tried explaining it to you. Your negativity just takes over and you have nothing left but contempt.

 

The post you originally quoted was me understanding, acknowledging, and addressing the clarification and then proposed another idea.  Are you sure you understand what you are reading?

[Defjamz26]

Perspective can be precious.  Are we saying that three years ago after being the worst..worst team in the NFL we expected to win a Super Bowl in three years?  I didn't see anyone putting that out there.  If anything we should be thrilled as a fan base that we've been one of the best teams in the NFL for the past three seasons.  I get it by the way, I'm as passionate as any fan and have been so since Bentley, Brooks Dickey, Daniels, Bickett, Butler, Beach, Hinton and the like.  I remember the lean years so I really appreciate waking up on Sundays knowing we should/can win every week.  A Super Bowl must come and it will.  Grigson should be learning hopefully he never stops learning how to do his job better.  I hate being the voice of reason.....

No we didn't expect a Superbowl, but we also didn't expect to be embarrassed 4 times in a row THE SAME EXACT WAY each team by New England. At this point you expected that we would at least have the building blocks of a solid defensive line and we don't. You thought that we'd be able to run the ball, and we can't.

 

Those weren't my expectations when the new regime came in, but that is what they themselves said their objective was: Stop the run, and run the ball. Most fans have every right to hold them to that standard. I get that some draft moves have been because of Luck (the offensive based 2012 draft) but the fire power on the defense is severely lacking.

[crazycolt1]

The post you originally quoted was me understanding, acknowledging, and addressing the clarification and then proposed another idea.  Are you sure you understand what you are reading?

Just how do you figure a three year old team that made the AFC championship game was failing? 49 out of 53 players are new to the roster. 2 of those are kickers, one on IR and the other facing off season surgery. Your expectations are unreal and reality seems to beyond your acknowledgments. Three strait 11-5 seasons under the circumstances has the Colts way over achieving on anyone's radar. Is it too hard for you to realize that your negativity gets old? But that is just fine. You can swim in your negative frame of mind from now on. I am tired of reading your comments that do nothing but show nothing but a whiners mentality. Nothing is ever good enough for you so I am wasting my efforts in trying to debate with you. Have yourself a great day

[Narcosys]

Just how do you figure a three year old team that made the AFC championship game was failing? 49 out of 53 players are new to the roster. 2 of those are kickers, one on IR and the other facing off season surgery. Your expectations are unreal and reality seems to beyond your acknowledgments. Three strait 11-5 seasons under the circumstances has the Colts way over achieving on anyone's radar. Is it too hard for you to realize that your negativity gets old? But that is just fine. You can swim in your negative frame of mind from now on. I am tired of reading your comments that do nothing but show nothing but a whiners mentality. Nothing is ever good enough for you so I am wasting my efforts in trying to debate with you. Have yourself a great day

Oh boy, you are out there. I only read the first sentence and stopped. The topic wasnt about the whole team, neither was his comment. It was about the lines, both of which have problem with the run. Creating lanes or stopping it. Do you disagree?

Edit: now that I've read the rest of your comment... you've got issues lol. But I'm mr. Negative lol

[TKnight24]

Just a few more days, and we see if Mr. Grigson's comments hold any water to them. Free Agency & Draft coming up. Let's see if he's really learned his lesson as he claims he has

[crazycolt1]

Oh boy, you are out there. I only read the first sentence and stopped. The topic wasnt about the whole team, neither was his comment. It was about the lines, both of which have problem with the run. Creating lanes or stopping it. Do you disagree?

Edit: now that I've read the rest of your comment... you've got issues lol. But I'm mr. Negative lol

Whatever you say. The only issue I have is the overload of negativity. It's no problem. Carry on.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I just want to see guys on the OL and D lines that can consistently win their one on one match ups, especially in crucial spots.  And working as a functional team.  Not too much to ask, is it?

[Pancake Block]

You explained it much better than I did. That was the point I was trying to make.

My take was that Grigson and Pagano both bought into and sold the theory that proper OL technique was everything.  I've even heard Luck make similar comments, usually after poor performances up front.  They are not wrong that proper blocking technique is critical, but athleticism and power are what separate the elite from the average.  Thornton, who has apparently fallen out of favor, has the size and power, but lacks the athleticism to get himself into good positioning.  He seems often off-balance and overreaches.  He hasn't been able to consistently correct that flaw.  When I look at our depth chart, I shudder to think what happens if Castonzo gets hurt.  Maybe Mewhort could slide over, but that takes away our best Guard.  We need to resign Joe Reitz as our most valuable back-up and upgrade C, RG, and RT.  Harrison was a rookie last year, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can improve enough to become a competent C.  Time will tell, but he has to quit committing those 5-yard penalties every week.  I don't see a bonafide, can't miss C in the draft this year, but there is always a hidden gem or two if Grigson can find them.

[crazycolt1]

My take was that Grigson and Pagano both bought into and sold the theory that proper OL technique was everything.  I've even heard Luck make similar comments, usually after poor performances up front.  They are not wrong that proper blocking technique is critical, but athleticism and power are what separate the elite from the average.  Thornton, who has apparently fallen out of favor, has the size and power, but lacks the athleticism to get himself into good positioning.  He seems often off-balance and overreaches.  He hasn't been able to consistently correct that flaw.  When I look at our depth chart, I shudder to think what happens if Castonzo gets hurt.  Maybe Mewhort could slide over, but that takes away our best Guard.  We need to resign Joe Reitz as our most valuable back-up and upgrade C, RG, and RT.  Harrison was a rookie last year, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can improve enough to become a competent C.  Time will tell, but he has to quit committing those 5-yard penalties every week.  I don't see a bonafide, can't miss C in the draft this year, but there is always a hidden gem or two if Grigson can find them.

I have my fingers crossed about Ben Heenan. He was selected first overall in 2012 in the CFL. Let's hope he is a hidden gem as you call it. I think picking him up saved a draft pick.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I haven't earnestly began to scout for my mock drafts yet, but it  sounds to me like La'el Collins (if he drops to us) is Grigson's kinda guy.  Move him inside to guard and he'll start, just like Mewhort at the other guard.  Hopefully Gosder Cherilus gets healthy and plays up to the big money we gave him.  Castonzo at LT.  L. Collins could fill duties at LT should Castonzo get nicked. That leaves our under performing centers to play bad enough to make the other guy the next game starter.  Until he under performs.  Then the next guy... and round and round it goes...I wish one would step up and show big time promise.

 

If that Collins isn't available, I'd like the other Collins, Landon Collins.  He'd be our SS Laron Landry should have been but never was, especially in the run D game.

 

I guess it will be time to start looking and grading draft prospects pretty soon.

[Sting]

It's year 3 & they're JUST NOW learning you have to win in the trenches!

How does a former offensive linemen & former Defensive Coordinator NOT know this?

Irsay had to have been on something when these hires we made

It took 3 years & 4 whoopings by the to figure this out?

That doesn't concern you at least one bit?

Yes, it certainly does.

[The Fish]

This place is funny. There was a period of time when Pep and Pagano were preaching run the ball, stop the run as a holy mantra, and that drove people bonkers.

I think they know it's importance, it's just not what this squad does best (at least on offense). 

[Superman]

This place is funny. There was a period of time when Pep and Pagano were preaching run the ball, stop the run as a holy mantra, and that drove people bonkers.

 

Yup. I mentioned that earlier. 

 

"But it's a passing league!! That's old school football!!!"

 

That was the popular response. And now, people are acting like the staff just figured this out. Why do we have to abandon context for the sake of sensationalism?

[Cynjin]

Why do we have to abandon context for the sake of sensationalism?

Because people just want to read headlines and don't want to be bothered with the details of a story.

[pgt_rob]

I had a small article pop up on my phone about Ryan Grigson mentioning you can never have too many pass rushers. It goes in further saying that he is going to do whatever it takes to get that pass rusher in the draft and FA no matter our other needs. So it does sound like that is one of Grigson's major focuses right now. I'm excited to see if he can get anyone in FA that is worth having. Justin Houston and JPP will probably get the franchise tag. Doesn't leave too many options out there in FA.

[throwing BBZ]

Pretty much drivel.
Grigson has a long history evaluating O-Line talent and he is just plain bad at it. The end.

[jskinnz]

Pretty much drivel.

Grigson has a long history evaluating O-Line talent and he is just plain bad at it. The end.

 

Of the players he has brought in during his 3 years, I believe he has drafted the center and LG for the Colts' forseeable future.  He got production out of Cherilus before injuries hurt his production last year.  Additionally I think Thomas would have contributed had injuries not wrecked two consecutive seasons.  The jury is out on Thornton and John.

 

So I don't think your "he is just bad at it" claim is valid - shocker there.

 

I won't conclude by saying The End because 1) my thoughts are certainly open for discussion and 2) it makes anyone who uses the phrase sound ridiculous, as if their input was the be all end all.  Your thoughts are most definently not that.

[Rally5]

No we didn't expect a Superbowl, but we also didn't expect to be embarrassed 4 times in a row THE SAME EXACT WAY each team by New England. At this point you expected that we would at least have the building blocks of a solid defensive line and we don't. You thought that we'd be able to run the ball, and we can't.

 

Those weren't my expectations when the new regime came in, but that is what they themselves said their objective was: Stop the run, and run the ball. Most fans have every right to hold them to that standard. I get that some draft moves have been because of Luck (the offensive based 2012 draft) but the fire power on the defense is severely lacking.

I get it, I was on fire during the game and I loathe New England, I even yelled at my Mom and I'm old, she's really old but deosn't read Colts forums, so.... You still have to dial in just about every fan in the NFL would trade places with us.  Our time is coming, I think they will fix the DLine...there are no complete teams, everyone has defeciences.  I really like cutting Landry and now Francios, that frees up 9M that I'm hoping goes toward D!  Cheers.

[southwest1]

Here's one of his direct quotes: 

 

To get to an elite level, we obviously have to shake some things up and do some things differently and take things to another level across the board. With acquiring players, with coaching, with anything that we feel needs improvement in our building, we’re going to try to get to the top of the mountain by implementing that attitude throughout.

 

http://www.endzonescore.com/2015/02/19/ryan-grigson-willing-shake-colts-roster-achieve-ultimate-goal/

 

That's the spirit of his comments, IMO. Not that he suddenly realized that you have to get better in the trenches, but that he realizes that they have more work to do.

I like the link you provided here Superman because it was a nice cross section of GM & HC quotes to tap into INDY's approach to free agency & the draft. Like you said it confirmed the necessity of getting bigger linemen in the trenches with size, speed, leverage, footwork, & hand placement on both lines.

 

Winning & losing is this league is contingent on 2 things: Pass protection & turnovers. Nothing new here. I just love that everybody is on the same page. You want quality on both lines. You gotta spend major greenback Benjamin's to get it. 

[Ohio Colt]

I hope Pagano learns to not get schooled by Bill Belichick again next season in the playoffs. I'm tired of it.

 

I feel fairly certain that Belichick could beat Pagano given any QB in the league under center. He's that much better of a coach. Not to sound like Brad Wells but it's true

[In Luck We Trust]

Grigson and Pagano had pressers today. Nothing of real consequence, IMO, but two things Grigson said stuck out to me. These are very loose paraphrases, from memory, so bear with me.

 

1) He said that they have learned the hard way about how important it is to be physical in the trenches. That probably seems obvious, but he seemed sort of enlightened, as if he and the staff have been further convinced about the need to get better up front, on both sides of the ball. He said that watching the Super Bowl and 'seeing how elite teams do it' really impressed this need upon him further.

 

2) Then he said that they are willing and ready to 'shake things up' a bit moving forward, with the draft and free agency. Kind of suggested that they'd be a little more willing to do certain things and explore certain avenues.

 

Taking those two comments and putting them together, it gave me the impression that the staff understands how critical this offseason is. For all the talk about how they've taken a significant step forward each year, it doesn't seem like they think that's an automatic thing. It seems like they know that there's a lot of work to be done to get to the next level, and they aren't content to just sit back and see what happens. Both Grigson and Pagano made specific comments about getting better in free agency.

 

I could be reaching, but it seems like this offseason might bring a little more aggressiveness in personnel acquisition, maybe a true playmaker in free agency. 

actions speak louder then words though. grigson is supposedly a " lineman " type of guy and if that was the case he should have known this a long time ago. if you cant run the ball you are not going to win. I guess we will have to see what he does this off season. 

[Superman]

actions speak louder then words though. grigson is supposedly a " lineman " type of guy and if that was the case he should have known this a long time ago. if you cant run the ball you are not going to win. I guess we will have to see what he does this off season. 

 

He's added a bunch of linemen. Attention to the line isn't the problem, on either side of the ball. Everyone from the owner on down has preached the importance of being able to run and being able to stop the run since January 2012, and they've tried to make it happen. This isn't new.

[Jason_]

actions speak louder then words though. grigson is supposedly a " lineman " type of guy and if that was the case he should have known this a long time ago. if you cant run the ball you are not going to win. I guess we will have to see what he does this off season. 

 

he DID know this a long time ago.  that's why both he and Pagano have been talking about getting better in the trenches, being able to run the ball and stop the run.  They've been talking about it since they both arrived.  This was not some "new" revelation to them.