NFL poll: Who's the biggest challenger to the Patriots in 2015?

[amfootball]

I agree you take what is given, but that play was a bad call regardless of the result. The situation called for two runs.

Pete said he was going to run on third on fourth given he had the time out. They had to throw on one of the remaining three downs in order to be able to run all three plays. The pass itself was not the issue but the call to run the slant makes no sense from that position on the field. But again, the play is only being as heavily criticized as it is because Butler made a spectacular play. Anything but a TO there and the Hawks run their next two plays and no remembers second down.

[The Old Crow]

I love it when people make claims that are 100% unprovable. You have no evidence that Lynch would have scored.

Let's see, Lynch had 24 carries for 102 yards for a 4.3 average after Justin Forsett burned the Patriots run D for 129 yards. If I'm a betting man, I think I know where I would put my money had Lynch been given two runs against the Patriots defense from the half yard line. Everyone knew where the smart money should go, except Pete Carroll.

[The Old Crow]

Pete said he was going to run on third on fourth given he had the time out. They had to throw on one of the remaining three downs in order to be able to run all three plays. The pass itself was not the issue but the call to run the slant makes no sense from that position on the field. But again, the play is only being as heavily criticized as it is because Butler made a spectacular play. Anything but a TO there and the Hawks run their next two plays and no remembers second down.

He can say what he wants, but when Lynch had 102 yards already, there is no way you pass that ball, just no way. Butler made a great play , but the play never should have been called.

[amfootball]

Let's see, Lynch had 24 carries for 102 yards for a 4.3 average after Justin Forsett burned the Patriots run D for 129 yards. If I'm a betting man, I think I know where I would put my money had Lynch been given two runs against the Patriots defense from the half yard line. Everyone knew where the smart money should go, except Pete Carroll.

That has not been talked about enough I think in regards to the playoffs just how bad the Pats defense was all around. Gave up 31 to the Ravens and Forsett ran wild and let up the bomb plays to Wilson and the Hawks. In those two games the D averaged 27 points. Normally both games are a loss but #12 saved the day all playoffs long.

[The Old Crow]

I just said that.......... You said it better but I just said that.

Brady had a winning performance, not a legendary one. He beat two battered secondaries, and was writing his concession speech on the sidelines, when Pete Carroll handed the Lombardi trophy to the Patriots in the silliest call in sports history. I'm glad I don't live in Seattle, because I would be ill for life after that.

[amfootball]

Brady had a winning performance, not a legendary one. He beat two battered secondaries, and was writing his concession speech on the sidelines, when Pete Carroll handed the Lombardi trophy to the Patriots in the silliest call in sports history. I'm glad I don't live in Seattle, because I would be ill for life after that.

It was as legendary as it gets. He defined the word with two comebacks that had never been done in the history of football. Coming back twice from 14 vs your Ravens and from 10 points down in the fourth quarter in the SB against the best defense in the league. Even the most staunch Montana fans are conceding Brady is the best ever based on this playoff run.

[SouthernCal]

It was as legendary as it gets. He defined the word with two comebacks that had never been done in the history of football. Coming back twice from 14 vs your Ravens and from 10 points down in the fourth quarter in the SB against the best defense in the league. Even the most staunch Montana fans are conceding Brady is the best ever based on this playoff run.

"Even the most staunch Montana fans are conceding Brady is the best ever on this playoff run."

I didn't see that in the 49er forums

[amfootball]

"Even the most staunch Montana fans are conceding Brady is the best ever on this playoff run."

I didn't see that in the 49er forums

You are from CA. What is your opinion of Montana and Steve Young? Why did the niners ever think Young was better than Montana? I have never ever understood that.

[The Old Crow]

That has not been talked about enough I think in regards to the playoffs just how bad the Pats defense was all around. Gave up 31 to the Ravens and Forsett ran wild and let up the bomb plays to Wilson and the Hawks. In those two games the D averaged 27 points. Normally both games are a loss but #12 saved the day all playoffs long.

Tom obviously played well, and did what he had to do to win, and took advantage of weaknesses. That is not in doubt. The Patriots still had healthier and more complete teams than the Seahawks and Ravens did at the end of the season. That is where the luck factor comes in and helps you win a SB. The Ravens got some of that luck in 2012.

[The Old Crow]

It was as legendary as it gets. He defined the word with two comebacks that had never been done in the history of football. Coming back twice from 14 vs your Ravens and from 10 points down in the fourth quarter in the SB against the best defense in the league. Even the most staunch Montana fans are conceding Brady is the best ever based on this playoff run.

Again, he beat battered and injured secondaries. Nice comebacks , but not legendary because of circumstances.

[SouthernCal]

You are from CA. What is your opinion of Montana and Steve Young? Why did the niners ever think Young was better than Montana? I have never ever understood that.

I didn't live to see Montana play so I'm invalid. Montana's injury vs the Giants caused him to go to KC.

[The Old Crow]

It was as legendary as it gets. He defined the word with two comebacks that had never been done in the history of football. Coming back twice from 14 vs your Ravens and from 10 points down in the fourth quarter in the SB against the best defense in the league. Even the most staunch Montana fans are conceding Brady is the best ever based on this playoff run.

What some supposed Montana fan that lives in Boston ? Lol

[amfootball]

Tom obviously played well, and did what he had to do to win, and took advantage of weaknesses. That is not in doubt. The Patriots still had healthier and more complete teams than the Seahawks and Ravens did at the end of the season. That is where the luck factor comes in and helps you win a SB. The Ravens got some of that luck in 2012.

Yes, I never denied some luck. Don't forget the three fumbles in the Ravens game that the Pats recovered. Lucky bounces there for sure. But Brady did those comebacks without a run game that is what makes it so special IMO. The Ravens and Hawks knew he would be passing as he did even play action much. He just stood in the shotgun and picked them apart to the tune of 50 attempts. He is the only SB QB to have that many attempts and win the game. That is how rare it is for a QB to put a team on his back like that and not only throw but complete them and win. I will he honest. I did not think he had three of those type of performances left in him at this stage. I do wonder if Jimmy sitting behind him upped the ante this year and made him even more focused.

[amfootball]

What some supposed Montana fan that lives in Boston ? Lol

It has been all over the talking head stations. Most are conceding Brady. Not all but many have come to that conclusion because of this run.

[SouthernCal]

It has been all over the talking head stations. Most are conceding Brady. Not all but many have come to that conclusion because of this run.

In Boston?

[amfootball]

I didn't live to see Montana play so I'm invalid. Montana's injury vs the Giants caused him to go to KC.

I did live to see him. And I will tell you he was still playing great in 1990 as evidenced by his seasons in KC when he took them to the AFCCG in his first season. I think one of the things that is a blemish for Montana in the GOAT convo is that he was traded so the niners could go with Young who then won the SB. As great as Montana was he was still replaced by a QB the niners felt was better and they were validated when they got that ring in 94.

[SouthernCal]

I did live to see him. And I will tell you he was still playing great in 1990 as evidenced by his seasons in KC when he took them to the AFCCG in his first season. I think one of the things that is a blemish for Montana in the GOAT convo is that he was traded so the niners could go with Young who then won the SB. As great as Montana was he was still replaced by a QB the niners felt was better and they were validated when they got that ring in 94.

Steve Young didn't go back to the super bowl after that though. I don't think Young would be that effective with the Chiefs like Montana was. After that lone superbowl win, Young kept losing to Farve/GB. 3 years straight.

[amfootball]

Steve Young didn't go back to the super bowl after that though. I don't think Young would be that effective with the Chiefs like Montana was. After that lone superbowl win, Young kept losing to Farve/GB. 3 years straight.

He had two league MVPs in 92 and 94 and SB MVP in 94 and made the HoF. He was better than Montana those years but in fairness Montana was aging. He said recently that he would have kept playing after 94 if it was not for a concussion.

[ViriLudant]

Let's see, Lynch had 24 carries for 102 yards for a 4.3 average after Justin Forsett burned the Patriots run D for 129 yards. If I'm a betting man, I think I know where I would put my money had Lynch been given two runs against the Patriots defense from the half yard line. Everyone knew where the smart money should go, except Pete Carroll.

Pray tell, what were Lynch's stats last season when facing a goal-to-goal at the one yard line?

[SouthernCal]

Pray tell, what were Lynch's stats last season when facing a goal-to-goal at the one yard line?

What were NE's stats last season when facing a RB a goal-to-goal at the one yard line?

[GoPats]

The biggest challenger to the Pats in 2015 is: 

 

 

 

Hmm, looks like... a properly inflated football? 

 

You might be right. I mean, we know we can eliminate "the Colts' run defense" as a possible answer.  

 

(Just playin'/sayin'...) 

 

[GoPats]

So we're a point now where the SB win is losing credibility because other teams had injuries and poor depth in certain spots?

 

Does this apply for some weaker losing teams in the past decade? Like, say, a Colin Kapernick-lead offense with SF, or the Mighty Rex Grossman and the '06 Bears? 

 

[SouthernCal]

not really. Lakers won the finals because Perkins got injured. SF offense with Kaepernick during those years(not last) was actually good.

[pgt_rob]

Hmm, looks like... a properly inflated football? 

 

You might be right. I mean, we know we can eliminate "the Colts' run defense" as a possible answer.  

 

(Just playin'/sayin'...) 

 

 

Hey, we are working on that.

[GoPats]

Hey, we are working on that.

 

Colts should go after Pork Chop. Add some size up front! 

[GoPats]

I'm sure Belichick watched the Ravens- Chargers game when SD didn't even try to run and Rivers carved up their secondary. Brady played well, but it wasn't legendary, as he beat up on two banged up secondaries.

 

I disagree quite strongly. When there's some HOF induction career recap video made at some point in the future, it should lead with the last two drives of the Super Bowl. He was something like 13/15 on those possessions and I'm pretty sure he didn't have an incomplete pass on the last one. 

 

This was basically the same secondary that made the record-setting Broncos look like a JV team last year, and at crunch time, Brady owned them. 

 

You can devalue it if you want, but it would be just as easy to turn around and say that the Patriots wouldn't have lost to the Ravens in the 2012 post season if they had Gronk, a healthy Talib, etc. 

[The Old Crow]

It has been all over the talking head stations. Most are conceding Brady. Not all but many have come to that conclusion because of this run.

Probably NESN. Lol

[The Old Crow]

So we're a point now where the SB win is losing credibility because other teams had injuries and poor depth in certain spots?

Does this apply for some weaker losing teams in the past decade? Like, say, a Colin Kapernick-lead offense with SF, or the Mighty Rex Grossman and the '06 Bears?

No, not about losing credibility , just about not being a legendary performance. Good SB win, but aided by a lot of breaks going their way.

[The Old Crow]

I disagree quite strongly. When there's some HOF induction career recap video made at some point in the future, it should lead with the last two drives of the Super Bowl. He was something like 13/15 on those possessions and I'm pretty sure he didn't have an incomplete pass on the last one.

This was basically the same secondary that made the record-setting Broncos look like a JV team last year, and at crunch time, Brady owned them.

You can devalue it if you want, but it would be just as easy to turn around and say that the Patriots wouldn't have lost to the Ravens in the 2012 post season if they had Gronk, a healthy Talib, etc.

Those injuries were definately a factor in the Ravens win. Even though Flacco had one of the greatest post seasons of all time, I'm not calling that legendary. Brady took advantage of weakened secondaries like he should have. A bunch of dink and dunks , as workmanlike as a blue collar lunch pail, but hardly legendary .

[The Old Crow]

Pray tell, what were Lynch's stats last season when facing a goal-to-goal at the one yard line?

Statistically, it wasn't the best this season, but it was on the half yard line, and you had two chances to run before you have to pass. With 102 yards already, and the Patriots run defense getting battered, it was the only move. You need only to look at what Lombardi did against the Cowboys on the Ice Bowl to know what the correct thing was to do. That is why there will never be a Carroll trophy !

[GoPats]

Those injuries were definately a factor in the Ravens win. Even though Flacco had one of the greatest post seasons of all time, I'm not calling that legendary. Brady took advantage of weakened secondaries like he should have. A bunch of dink and dunks , as workmanlike as a blue collar lunch pail, but hardly legendary .

 

I absolutely respect your opinion on it, I just happen to disagree. Under those circumstances, in front of a crowd that heavily favored the other team, against the NFL's best defense over the past few years, in a spot where no team in Super Bowl history had ever staged a comeback... I don't know, to me that defines the word "legendary." 

[amfootball]

Probably NESN. Lol

NFL Network, ESPN, Mike and Mike, Pardon the Interruption, etc. Even Woody Paige who hates the Patriots said Brady is the greatest and greater than Montana.

[amfootball]

I absolutely respect your opinion on it, I just happen to disagree. Under those circumstances, in front of a crowd that heavily favored the other team, against the NFL's best defense over the past few years, in a spot where no team in Super Bowl history had ever staged a comeback... I don't know, to me that defines the word "legendary." 

And with his integrity being challenged for two weeks under the most scrutiny a QB has ever had heaped on them since Namath and he responded with the best fourth quarter in SB history and his third SB MVP.

[UKCOLT17]

NFL Network, ESPN, Mike and Mike, Pardon the Interruption, etc. Even Woody Paige who hates the Patriots said Brady is the greatest and greater than Montana.

 

it shouldnt even be a topic u cant really ever compare players of different eras whole things stupid to me

[JerodMayo51]

No, Carroll blew the game.

Lots of coaches disagree with you and when I get home to my computer I'll pull the stats of a bunch of qbs this year at the 1 yard line passing the football

The numbers speak for themselves, with extremely high percentages of touchdown throws and not a SINGLE interception.

In order to get 4 plays worth out of that set of downs, they HAD to pass at least once, and statistically it was a very safe play that also had a very, very high success rate.

But whatever, I can recognize it for what it actually was and that's a young kid making an unbelievable, game winning play to seal the victory.

It evens out anyways, because the Pats would have been 5-0 in SBs if not for miracle plays that were gift wrapped to the giants, TWICE

[amfootball]

it shouldnt even be a topic u cant really ever compare players of different eras whole things stupid to me

I agree. Very difficult to compare players of different eras but it happens all the time. GOAT discussions dominate all sports.

[JerodMayo51]

No. Lane is a good slot corner. And wright is actually a good line backer.

Well it's obvious to point out what Brady did the obvious is carving up Simon and Wright while getting Sherman, Thomas, Kam, Maxwell tired to pinpoint their weakness. That's what he did in the superbowl.

Edit: Oh yeah btw, look at my name. SouthernCal = Los Angeles = hate all Boston and Bay Area teams. So yeah I can diminish it because **** Boston lol. If Brady was doing the same thing for chicago, I wouldn't be saying anything lol.

Fair enough

[SouthernCal]

I agree. Very difficult to compare players of different eras but it happens all the time. GOAT discussions dominate all sports.

your profile pic before is better. change back plz. i hardly recognize you now

[JerodMayo51]

That has not been talked about enough I think in regards to the playoffs just how bad the Pats defense was all around. Gave up 31 to the Ravens and Forsett ran wild and let up the bomb plays to Wilson and the Hawks. In those two games the D averaged 27 points. Normally both games are a loss but #12 saved the day all playoffs long.

Yup, his body of work in the post season for that SB was legendary. One of the greatest performances in the history of the league and it's being overlooked because people want to focus on Wilson throwing an interception

[SouthernCal]

Fair enough

You guys did the same with New York. Like Jeter's last game at NY. That game was a little greased for him in the end.