NFL zeroed in on locker room attendant

[Narcosys]

Oh sure, I don't think it was a credit to their integrity... obviously one of the first things anyone is going to ask for is access to CCTV footage. They had to. Didn't mean to project it that way. (Part of my job is to work with police in the US and RCMP in Canada to get them footage... video forensics is huge these days.) 

 

As far the rules for the ball boys go, I honestly have no idea. I would think, prior to this incident and the hoopla around it, it was not considered a big deal for the ball guy to duck into the men's room for 90 seconds on his way out to the field. I think the whole process was probably a little looser than it's all written up. No one had ever been accused of anything and there was no reason to suspect any chicanery, because referees touch the ball on every play when they set it. 

 

I want the NFL to answer these questions as part of their investigation:

 

1. Can they confirm that all 12 of NE's balls were measured with a gaugen pre-game? Or did Walt Anderson visually inspect them only? They've said the "process was followed," but what's the process, exactly? 

 

2. Were the PSIs written down somewhere before the game? For both NE and Indy's balls?

 

3. If so, what were the PSIs on Indy's balls before the game and at halftime? (Just for the basis of comparison, almost like a "control" group in a science experiment.) 

 

3. How much air, exactly, did all 12 of the balls lose? 

 

Getting these facts will allow us to rule certain things out (like atmospheric factors). Some of them have been mentioned or addressed in the "leaks" that have happened but I want to hear it from the official source. A lot of times, when a story breaks like this the overall gist is there, but the details are off. I just want to see those details, you know? 

You would have a smorgasboard in Korea, nearly everyone and their mothers have CCTV. 

 

Good list.  I would add one more.  What were the levels of the replacment balls after the game.  If they were affected in the same way, then it substantiates the first half results.  If not, then why did the first half balls lose pressure and not the second half.  So i guess two questions.

[Superman]

Fair enough about the first part...but I want to stay with this Marvin Harrison thing just because I'm talking about how people will 'defend their team until they are PROVEN to have done something', just as your fan base did then. Colts fan's did it with that situation and that's fine...but when Patriots fans do it with this situation, we are automatically considered wrong in the head. And, to use YOUR terminology, in Marvin's case not only WAS there a murder, but ALSO a smoking gun. And you guys still defended it saying there was no proof!

 

The fact that his gun was involved...in more than one incident...would certainly be a 'logical conclusion' for many that he would be involved somehow, mush like how you consider lots of the deflategate reports as easy to draw some conclusions. Listen, I'm not bringing Marvin up to rehash it...I'm bringing it up because the way people responded to it and the way you guys defended it is the same as how people are treating this situation. While we choose to wait for facts and wait for the findings of the actual investigation, others somehow already know and have chosen therefor not to listen to anything else.

 

And the way posters like bababooey are responding to our posts...it would be the equivalent of me simply ignoring any legitimate points of yours and just stomping my feet yelling 'MURDERERS! YOU SUPPORT MURDERERS! over and over and over again. Nothing was proven, the 'smoking gun' was not enough to convict, yet I already made up my mind. Boom...I'm right, you're wrong. Go murder some more people. 

 

That's the kind of nonsense that we're dealing with. 

 

Regarding Marvin, the two situations are just drastically different. It seems like crazy talk to think that quiet, respectful Marvin Harrison could ever be even remotely connected to a murder. Taking a default position of "we need to wait and see what comes out" isn't strange at all.

 

The Patriots have a reputation -- earned, by the way, despite the fact that Spygate has been overblown in the past 7 years -- of pushing the envelope. Taking the same default position is giving them a benefit of the doubt that they don't really deserve, in a lot of minds. 

 

Regardless, the beef here is not with the "let's what and see" angle. The beef is with the dismissive attitude of the majority of Pats fans, including long time and respected members of this board (pre-dating this board, even). Pretending that this is only a big deal because it's about the Patriots (which is condescending), suggesting that this is the Colts fault (which many have done), acting like this is comparable to PED usage by the Seahawks (which has already been penalized and is in the past, making it a false equivalency), acting like other teams have had this issue because of Aaron Rodgers comments (which is, at best, a creative twist)... that's where the beef is.

[GoPats]

You would have a smorgasboard in Korea, nearly everyone and their mothers have CCTV. 

 

Good list.  I would add one more.  What were the levels of the replacment balls after the game.  If they were affected in the same way, then it substantiates the first half results.  If not, then why did the first half balls lose pressure and not the second half.  So i guess two questions.

 

That's a good question too! 

 

The CCTV system in London is unreal, probably the most extensive in the world. I read somewhere that the average Brit is on camera upwards of 300 times a day if they live or work in the city. That's amazing. 

[Superman]

I don't think that's what happened, but isn't it a possibility? Not a lot of fans or NFL people cared too much about ball PSI prior to last Monday. I can't speak to whether or not refs do that 100% of the time, or what happens when they go through the process.

 

Is there any chance Anderson checked the balls, thought they seemed fine, and proceeded without measuring them? Are the PSIs written down somewhere? Is there a form that has to be filled out, or whatever? I'd just like the NFL to clarify that process and yes, confirm that the balls were indeed measured with a gauge prior to kick-off. 

 

The other major question is how much did they deflate? Because, like I said, those numbers could conceivably deep-six Belichick's little science lecture last weekend. And I'm inclined to believe the Patriots know what the numbers are, and wouldn't have presented that argument if there was no way it could have been true. 

 

This is conjecture, but I believe it is a remote possibility, at best.

 

IF Coleman or his crew didn't properly check the pressure of the balls with a gauge like they are supposed to, then I agree with Kraft that the Patriots deserve an apology. There should never have been an investigation, at least not beyond asking Coleman if the balls were checked prior to the game. And if he lied and said he did when he really didn't, then he should probably get axed. Not only would he have allowed the NFL to kick off this investigation and overshadow the biggest event of the year, while wasting tons of resources, but also a crew chief should have enough integrity to tell the truth when asked. 

 

But again, given what we KNOW about the source of the investigation, it's hard to believe that Coleman and/or his crew would be negligent about measuring the balls. And it's hard to believe that the NFL would allow that crew to officiate that game without knowing that there had been a complaint two months earlier. Coleman and his crew were evidently on the lookout for non-compliant balls, which is likely why they stopped play to switch balls in the first half.

[dynasty13]

Regarding Marvin, the two situations are just drastically different. It seems like crazy talk to think that quiet, respectful Marvin Harrison could ever be even remotely connected to a murder. Taking a default position of "we need to wait and see what comes out" isn't strange at all.

 

The Patriots have a reputation -- earned, by the way, despite the fact that Spygate has been overblown in the past 7 years -- of pushing the envelope. Taking the same default position is giving them a benefit of the doubt that they don't really deserve, in a lot of minds. 

 

Regardless, the beef here is not with the "let's what and see" angle. The beef is with the dismissive attitude of the majority of Pats fans, including long time and respected members of this board (pre-dating this board, even). Pretending that this is only a big deal because it's about the Patriots (which is condescending), suggesting that this is the Colts fault (which many have done), acting like this is comparable to PED usage by the Seahawks (which has already been penalized and is in the past, making it a false equivalency), acting like other teams have had this issue because of Aaron Rodgers comments (which is, at best, a creative twist)... that's where the beef is.

 

But see...essentially you just admitted that 'Because it's the Patriots' this blew up as it did and people aren't waiting to see what comes from the investigation. The reason we saw that is because you yourselves do! I for one am not comparing it to PED usage or any other scandal....I am simply looking at fan response to this situation and fan response to other situations.

 

You just said yourself that because the Patriots have a reputation, they don't get the benefit of the doubt. In other words, because it's the Patriots, we elect NOT to wait and see...which has been my complaint since day one.

[GoPats]

This is conjecture, but I believe it is a remote possibility, at best.

 

IF Coleman or his crew didn't properly check the pressure of the balls with a gauge like they are supposed to, then I agree with Kraft that the Patriots deserve an apology. There should never have been an investigation, at least not beyond asking Coleman if the balls were checked prior to the game. And if he lied and said he did when he really didn't, then he should probably get axed. Not only would he have allowed the NFL to kick off this investigation and overshadow the biggest event of the year, while wasting tons of resources, but also a crew chief should have enough integrity to tell the truth when asked. 

 

But again, given what we KNOW about the source of the investigation, it's hard to believe that Coleman and/or his crew would be negligent about measuring the balls. And it's hard to believe that the NFL would allow that crew to officiate that game without knowing that there had been a complaint two months earlier. Coleman and his crew were evidently on the lookout for non-compliant balls, which is likely why they stopped play to switch balls in the first half.

 

Well, really, almost anything we're saying is conjecture at this point.  ;)

 

Part of the reason I wonder about the overall process is the Aaron Rodgers thing. The quote was that they over-inflate GB's footballs and see if the refs take any out. Are we to infer, then, that they sometimes don't? Otherwise, why over-inflate them? If you look at the quote (which was Simms quoting Rodgers, of course, and not Rodgers' words directly) that's how it reads. 

 

Again I'm not hanging my hat on this... I just think it's a fair question to ask. 

[Superman]

But see...essentially you just admitted that 'Because it's the Patriots' this blew up as it did and people aren't waiting to see what comes from the investigation. The reason we saw that is because you yourselves do! I for one am not comparing it to PED usage or any other scandal....I am simply looking at fan response to this situation and fan response to other situations.

 

You just said yourself that because the Patriots have a reputation, they don't get the benefit of the doubt. In other words, because it's the Patriots, we elect NOT to wait and see...which has been my complaint since day one.

 

No, not really.

 

The "because it's the Patriots" thing has been that no one would even care about this if it were any other team, that it's being blown out of proportion and doesn't matter because they stomped the Colts anyways, that fans of other teams are desperately looking for a reason why the Patriots are so good so that they can feel better about their team not being able to beat them, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum. There's plenty of evidence of this in the many posts on this topic over the last week.

[Superman]

Well, really, almost anything we're saying is conjecture at this point.  ;)

 

It's not conjecture to say that all of the Patriots balls were non-compliant, and the Colts balls were not. That's the heart of the matter, really.

 

Part of the reason I wonder about the overall process is the Aaron Rodgers thing. The quote was that they over-inflate GB's footballs and see if the refs take any out. Are we to infer, then, that they sometimes don't? Otherwise, why over-inflate them? If you look at the quote (which was Simms quoting Rodgers, of course, and not Rodgers' words directly) that's how it reads. 

 

Again I'm not hanging my hat on this... I just think it's a fair question to ask. 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12201369/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-upset-referees-take-air-footballs

 

This is what Rodgers said:

 

 

Every game they're taking air out of the footballs I'm throwing

 

 

I don't see how it's possible to infer that they sometimes don't take air out of the footballs the Packers use. He literally said "every game." Whether he meant that literally or not is a different story, but your inference isn't really an inference. It's more of a twist, and it seems to be based on secondhand information, when there's firsthand information available.

 

Also, are we saying that the refs are feel-testing the Packers footballs, and deciding to take air out based on how they squeeze them? That's another leap. Rodgers entire argument was that he doesn't believe there should be a maximum PSI, which suggests -- and this is definitely conjecture -- that air is being removed from the balls to make them complaint on the basis of PSI, not feel-testing. If they were just squeezing the footballs and then taking air out because they didn't like how they feel, I would think Rodgers would have mentioned that.

 

To me, there's nothing to what Rodgers said. His entire complaint was that the refs often take specific action to make sure the Packers balls are compliant, and his complaint was specific to the requirement, not the process.

[GoPats]

<Clipped for brevity>

 

Well I think it's safe to say... they'll be using that gauge every game from now on!  ;)

[dgambill]

It could very well turn out that way. But I'm sure you can't blame me, as a Pats fan, for wanting to wait to see if that actually happens. Don't pretend you wouldn't do the same exact thing in my shoes. 

Hey...I'm not hating on you. I remember a ton a fans on here supporting Robert Mathis even when he broke the rules. There is no proof he took the ban substance to cover up his HGH use but it doesn't matter. Its breaking the rules regardless. Everything is circumstancial at this point. I would say there is so much smoke that there is likely a fire....now who set the fire...etc...that probably will never be found out...but anywhere else...leaders usually take the fall. I don't blame you for waiting...its tough having the negativity about a team you obviously feel strongly about. I felt bad when the Pacers ruined things for me too. That said it won't last forever and hopefully things get cleaned up. It took several years before I could spend money and go to a Pacer game again....sadly after one of my favorite players was gone but I couldn't go support a team that behaved that way. I know everyone isnt perfect but that was a team of social misfits. NE isn't the same don't get me wrong...just giving my perspective. If my coach continues to have these scandals based on breaking the rules or going around them etc...it be hard to support them. Thanks for your honesty and being a stand up poster. Sadly on the internet...crazy people's opinions/comments carry the same weight as most of us reasonable peoples. Good luck in the game Sunday.

[bababooey]

But see...essentially you just admitted that 'Because it's the Patriots' this blew up as it did and people aren't waiting to see what comes from the investigation. The reason we saw that is because you yourselves do! I for one am not comparing it to PED usage or any other scandal....I am simply looking at fan response to this situation and fan response to other situations.

 

You just said yourself that because the Patriots have a reputation, they don't get the benefit of the doubt. In other words, because it's the Patriots, we elect NOT to wait and see...which has been my complaint since day one.

Because it's the Patriots....but you missed the second part...... who have a history of cheating and a tendency to push the envelope regarding the rules.....and being arrogant enough to laugh it all off and dismiss allegations that the NFL is investigating.

[dynasty13]

Because it's the Patriots....but you missed the second part...... who have a history of cheating and a tendency to push the envelope regarding the rules.....and being arrogant enough to laugh it all off and dismiss allegations that the NFL is investigating.

 

Any comment on the Marvin Harrison thing I brought up? How you all blindly defended him, even the 2nd time his gun was connected to a shooting, simply because nothing was proven yet? How you all waited until the investigation was over, even though there was 'a history' of him being involved in some shady behavior previously? What's the difference?

[Flying Elvis]

How does one prove deflation if one can't prove inflation?

[bababooey]

Any comment on the Marvin Harrison thing I brought up? How you all blindly defended him, even the 2nd time his gun was connected to a shooting, simply because nothing was proven yet? How you all waited until the investigation was over, even though there was 'a history' of him being involved in some shady behavior previously? What's the difference?

Exactly, nothing was confirmed the first time around, unlike for your team. You're also trying to change a Colt fan's view so you're wasting your breath here.

[OffensivelyPC]

Any comment on the Marvin Harrison thing I brought up? How you all blindly defended him, even the 2nd time his gun was connected to a shooting, simply because nothing was proven yet? How you all waited until the investigation was over, even though there was 'a history' of him being involved in some shady behavior previously? What's the difference?

The difference is that the Patriots were guilty of spygate so they don't really get the proverbial benefit of the doubt.  Harrison was never charged - either time.  The difference is, an accusation against the patriots for cheating after they've been caught cheating before.  Harrison was just accused by someone who was convicted of giving police a false report.  If you still think the two are the same, there's really nothing else I can say.  There certainly isn't any logical way to spin the Harrison case to somehow be analogous to deflate gate.

[dynasty13]

Exactly, nothing was confirmed the first time around, unlike for your team. You're also trying to change a Colt fan's view so you're wasting your breath here.

Ok got it...hypocrisy aside, just to summarize:

No matter how damning the evidence at the time, you all defended a person in the middle of a murder investigation simply because nothing was proved or confirmed yet, even when it happened a second time, but you're all ready to gather your pitchforks and burn the New England offices down when there is nothing but contradictory reports and hopeful speculation at this point?

If the investigation turns up that they knowingly did this, by all means raise the flag upside down and fire away. Only then will your vitriolic response to this situation be justified. But if they are cleared and the investigation turns up nothing, you should probably be first in line to apologize based on how vocal and 'how sure' you've been over the last week and a half.

[Superman]

How does one prove deflation if one can't prove inflation?

 

It depends on what your definition of "is" is...

[dynasty13]

The difference is that the Patriots were guilty of spygate so they don't really get the proverbial benefit of the doubt. Harrison was never charged - either time. The difference is, an accusation against the patriots for cheating after they've been caught cheating before. Harrison was just accused by someone who was convicted of giving police a false report. If you still think the two are the same, there's really nothing else I can say. There certainly isn't any logical way to spin the Harrison case to somehow be analogous to deflate gate.

Easy to say at the end, but as it was going on and nothing was proven OR disproven and the evidence didn't look so good...it had to be annoying to defend. I mean, HIS gun? The point is that Im comparing fan responses, not the situations themselves. All we have right now are allegations as well.

If this investigation turns up nothing and the Patriots are essentially 'not charged'...are you all going to admit you were wrong? Or are you going to continue to go on and act like the Patriots are the despicable franchise you've made them out to be?

[our_dbs_rock]

I find it funny that the Pats complained about the Jets tampering. And then follow that up by using a formation in the Ravens game that goes up to the very edge of being legal and then the following week they get caught cheating.

How inflated do your balls have to be to say one team is 'cheating' and go right out and cheat yourself.

[OffensivelyPC]

Easy to say at the end, but as it was going on and nothing was proven OR disproven and the evidence didn't look so good...it had to be annoying to defend. I mean, HIS gun? The point is that Im comparing fan responses, not the situations themselves. All we have right now are allegations as well.

If this investigation turns up nothing and the Patriots are essentially 'not charged'...are you all going to admit you were wrong? Or are you going to continue to go on and act like the Patriots are the despicable franchise you've made them out to be?

you can ask for that if you're exonerated and not a moment before.I've been on these forums long enough I'm not gonna disappear because I was wrong and a pats fan was right

[bababooey]

Easy to say at the end, but as it was going on and nothing was proven OR disproven and the evidence didn't look so good...it had to be annoying to defend. I mean, HIS gun? The point is that Im comparing fan responses, not the situations themselves. All we have right now are allegations as well.

If this investigation turns up nothing and the Patriots are essentially 'not charged'...are you all going to admit you were wrong? Or are you going to continue to go on and act like the Patriots are the despicable franchise you've made them out to be?

The patriots are going to be charged, there doesn't need to be a reasonable doubt. It's a convicted cheater team. 11 deflated balls vs. 12 perfect ones. They are despicable

[dynasty13]

The patriots are going to be charged, there doesn't need to be a reasonable doubt. It's a convicted cheater team. 11 deflated balls vs. 12 perfect ones. They are despicable

Well darn, what's taking the NFL this long then?

[bababooey]

Well darn, what's taking the NFL this long then?

Because they don't want to destroy their image anymore when it's easy to see a convicted cheater is in the superbowl and just got caught cheating again. Plus Wells is going back to the other tapes to see that the ball boy goes to "the bathroom" with the balls every week and will see how long the cheating goes back.

[dynasty13]

Because they don't want to destroy their image anymore when it's easy to see a convicted cheater is in the superbowl and just got caught cheating again. Plus Wells is going back to the other tapes to see that the ball boy goes to "the bathroom" with the balls every week and will see how long the cheating goes back.

I'm honestly starting to think you're just screwing with us all. Like you can't possibly believe the garbage that you post, it's all just a big joke or something? You really think the NFL is intentionally waiting until after the Super Bowl because they don't want to destroy their image by having a team play in their championship game that people believe cheated?

Have you, like, been alive the past week and a half? Have you seen the way the media and fans such as yourself are looking at this team? They've all, and you've all, already decided they're guilty...it has nothing to do with protecting their image for an extra 4 days by just sitting around and delaying while not being able to control the narrative.

The NFL obviously doesn't feel the same way as you...they are actually conducting an investigation, gathering facts, and not just spewing out their speculation on a freakin' whim. Did you hear they've contacted the physics department at Columbia to conduct a study on how the weather and temperature may affect the balls? They have nothing and now they're looking to see the potential validity of the Patriots claims.

It's not cut and dry as you want it to be. I'm starting to think you just can't accept it.

[Shane Bond]

you can ask for that if you're exonerated and not a moment before.I've been on these forums long enough I'm not gonna disappear because I was wrong and a pats fan was right

Damn right

[dynasty13]

Damn right

Hahhhahha really Shane????

You ALWAYS disappear when someone proves you wrong! Now I know you guys are all just screwing with us.

Is this real life?

[corgi]

I'm honestly starting to think you're just screwing with us all. Like you can't possibly believe the garbage that you post, it's all just a big joke or something? You really think the NFL is intentionally waiting until after the Super Bowl because they don't want to destroy their image by having a team play in their championship game that people believe cheated?

Have you, like, been alive the past week and a half? Have you seen the way the media and fans such as yourself are looking at this team? They've all, and you've all, already decided they're guilty...it has nothing to do with protecting their image for an extra 4 days by just sitting around and delaying while not being able to control the narrative.

The NFL obviously doesn't feel the same way as you...they are actually conducting an investigation, gathering facts, and not just spewing out their speculation on a freakin' whim. Did you hear they've contacted the physics department at Columbia to conduct a study on how the weather and temperature may affect the balls? They have nothing and now they're looking to see the potential validity of the Patriots claims.

It's not cut and dry as you want it to be. I'm starting to think you just can't accept it.

Why are you still arguing about all of this? Does it really bother you that people have negative opinions of the Patriots and want to see the team get in trouble for suspected cheating? It's pretty obvious the guys you keep arguing with are not going to back off at all.

[jabbanobadda]

Because they don't want to destroy their image anymore when it's easy to see a convicted cheater is in the superbowl and just got caught cheating again. Plus Wells is going back to the other tapes to see that the ball boy goes to "the bathroom" with the balls every week and will see how long the cheating goes back.

I was wondering if they were going to go back and see if he took that same bathroom break every week. Have you heard this somewhere?

[dynasty13]

Why are you still arguing about all of this? Does it really bother you that people have negative opinions of the Patriots and want to see the team get in trouble for suspected cheating? It's pretty obvious the guys you keep arguing with are not going to back off at all.

Why? Because it's Super Bowl week, my team is in it, and this is all anyone cares to discuss.

[Flying Elvis]

It depends on what your definition of "is" is...

Ha ha! It took me a minute to figure that one out. I will leave you nice people alone until this is settled one way or the other or somewhere in between.

[OffensivelyPC]

Why? Because it's Super Bowl week, my team is in it, and this is all anyone cares to discuss.

you've spent enough time on this forum for that to be true whatsoever.

[braveheartcolt]

Oh sure, I don't think it was a credit to their integrity... obviously one of the first things anyone is going to ask for is access to CCTV footage. They had to. Didn't mean to project it that way. (Part of my job is to work with police in the US and RCMP in Canada to get them footage... video forensics is huge these days.)

As far the rules for the ball boys go, I honestly have no idea. I would think, prior to this incident and the hoopla around it, it was not considered a big deal for the ball guy to duck into the men's room for 90 seconds on his way out to the field. I think the whole process was probably a little looser than it's all written up. No one had ever been accused of anything and there was no reason to suspect any chicanery, because referees touch the ball on every play when they set it.

I want the NFL to answer these questions as part of their investigation:

1. Can they confirm that all 12 of NE's balls were measured with a gaugen pre-game? Or did Walt Anderson visually inspect them only? They've said the "process was followed," but what's the process, exactly?

2. Were the PSIs written down somewhere before the game? For both NE and Indy's balls?

3. If so, what were the PSIs on Indy's balls before the game and at halftime? (Just for the basis of comparison, almost like a "control" group in a science experiment.)

3. How much air, exactly, did all 12 of the balls lose?

Getting these facts will allow us to rule certain things out (like atmospheric factors). Some of them have been mentioned or addressed in the "leaks" that have happened but I want to hear it from the official source. A lot of times, when a story breaks like this the overall gist is there, but the details are off. I just want to see those details, you know?

Sir, for the use of the word 'chicanery' I will honourably pardon you for being a fan of that cheating bunch of reprobates.

However, if you beat the Seahawks, I withold the right to rescind that pardon.

[bababooey]

I was wondering if they were going to go back and see if he took that same bathroom break every week. Have you heard this somewhere?

It could be wrapped up in 2 days but seeing as the NFL brought in scientists to figure out ball physics and digital forensics to go through videos im assuming they are trying to see how far back it may go considering the statistics point to the fact it may have not been an isolated incident.

Edit: Peter King confirmed they are looking back farther than last week.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Oh sure, I don't think it was a credit to their integrity... obviously one of the first things anyone is going to ask for is access to CCTV footage. They had to. Didn't mean to project it that way. (Part of my job is to work with police in the US and RCMP in Canada to get them footage... video forensics is huge these days.) 

 

As far the rules for the ball boys go, I honestly have no idea. I would think, prior to this incident and the hoopla around it, it was not considered a big deal for the ball guy to duck into the men's room for 90 seconds on his way out to the field. I think the whole process was probably a little looser than it's all written up. No one had ever been accused of anything and there was no reason to suspect any chicanery, because referees touch the ball on every play when they set it. 

 

I want the NFL to answer these questions as part of their investigation:

 

1. Can they confirm that all 12 of NE's balls were measured with a gaugen pre-game? Or did Walt Anderson visually inspect them only? They've said the "process was followed," but what's the process, exactly? 

 

2. Were the PSIs written down somewhere before the game? For both NE and Indy's balls?

 

3. If so, what were the PSIs on Indy's balls before the game and at halftime? (Just for the basis of comparison, almost like a "control" group in a science experiment.) 

 

3. How much air, exactly, did all 12 of the balls lose? 

 

Getting these facts will allow us to rule certain things out (like atmospheric factors). Some of them have been mentioned or addressed in the "leaks" that have happened but I want to hear it from the official source. A lot of times, when a story breaks like this the overall gist is there, but the details are off. I just want to see those details, you know? 

 

I don't think that's what happened, but isn't it a possibility? Not a lot of fans or NFL people cared too much about ball PSI prior to last Monday. I can't speak to whether or not refs do that 100% of the time, or what happens when they go through the process.

 

Is there any chance Anderson checked the balls, thought they seemed fine, and proceeded without measuring them? Are the PSIs written down somewhere? Is there a form that has to be filled out, or whatever? I'd just like the NFL to clarify that process and yes, confirm that the balls were indeed measured with a gauge prior to kick-off. 

 

The other major question is how much did they deflate? Because, like I said, those numbers could conceivably deep-six Belichick's little science lecture last weekend. And I'm inclined to believe the Patriots know what the numbers are, and wouldn't have presented that argument if there was no way it could have been true. 

 

Here's is an official that Refereed (Jim Daopoulos) a dozen or so games in Foxboro, and describes the layout, separation, security, and protocol of what they do to the game footballs balls at Gillette.  This is an A/V clip from ESPN-

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12232539

 

The same official is reported as saying this-

 

“So the competition committee said, ‘We’re going to let the quarterbacks determine which footballs they want, practice with them all week, do what you want with them, as long as the football is not overly scuffed up. Then submit that ball to the officials, and the officials can tell if they’d want to use it for a game, and then they’ll stick a gauge into it and check the weight. Once they do that, that ball has met the requirements, and they put them in a bag, and they stay in that room with them, that locker room, until they leave to go to the field about 10 minutes before kickoff.

 

“So there’s a 10-minute window where they hand those footballs off to the ballboys, and the ballboys then walk out with the officials and bring them out on the field. So that’s where the confusion is. Where did any of this occur? I can tell you Walt Anderson, probably more than any other referee, is a by-the-rules stickler. I’m sure that the footballs that came in from the Patriots equipment man were right at 12.5 pounds, and the officials are not going to adjust the footballs as long as it’s 12.5.”

 

Q: So the teams don’t warm up with the game balls?

JD: "No, they don’t have the footballs. The footballs go out about 10 minutes before the game."

 

Q: Any chance Walt Anderson didn’t stick a pressure gauge in each of the 24 or 36 footballs? Maybe he just did the squeeze test?

JD: “They have a gauge and they have to check every football. It’s usually given to the youngest or newest member of the crew — it’s almost like a rite of passage into the NFL. During the playoffs, it’s usually an alternate official, so it’s a veteran official that does it. I would not even question whether they did or not. It’s just something you do, like putting your pants on or getting ready for the game.”

 

This supposedly happens every pre-season, regular season, and post season game.  Every one.  If someone is gonna cut corners and do the squeeze test, it would likely be a pre-season game, not an AFC championship game.

 

And this was from Pro Football Talk on Jan. 21, 2015-

 

"First, per a league source, the NFL has reviewed the entire process and determined that the balls were properly checked by the officials before the game.  Which means that, when the balls left the possession of the referee, the pressure was at least 12.5 PSI and no more than 13.5 PSI."

 

The rest I await the Wells investigation.

[corgi]

Why? Because it's Super Bowl week, my team is in it, and this is all anyone cares to discuss.

Yeah as someone else pointed out that's not why you are here. Stop going back to the Marvin Harrison situation. That has nothing to do with the fact that the Patriots continue to break the rules. All of five people on here care to discuss the Patriots playing in the superbowl.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Peter King once got to join a Ref crew pregame for football inspection/prep.  Nice video:

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

[dynasty13]

Yeah as someone else pointed out that's not why you are here. Stop going back to the Marvin Harrison situation. That has nothing to do with the fact that the Patriots continue to break the rules. All of five people on here care to discuss the Patriots playing in the superbowl.

Again, I'm not comparing the situations themselves...I'm comparing the way fans responded to speculative conclusions without any proof. The reactions of fans are similar...anti colters jumped to conclusions while colts fans blindly defended him...more than once. The evidence seemed pretty damning, but boy did you guys stick by your guy!

Now you're the ones jumping to conclusions based on speculation, and the only justification you have for your hypocritical response is 'they don't get the benefit fit of the doubt'.

What is so hard about looking at the situation itself, without the past or future or anything else outside the present, and the facts surrounding it and what has been proven or not proven at this point! Put it this way... You can't be selected to a jury if you have any preconceived notions about anything relating to a case....in other words, not a single one of you who mentions spygate as a reason to not let this play out before assuming would even be qualified to make a ruling on this case! You wouldn't even be considered.

Don't be blinded by your preconceived notions, take this investigation for what it is and don't make a decision until the facts are presented and the NFL rules. THAT is why I brought up Marvin Harrison....because if we all jumped the gun and 'ruled' only a week and a half after his name first popped up in that case, we probably would have found him guilty too given the evidence presented. Interesting how things may change when you wait for an investigation to be completed....sometimes it makes all the difference in the world.

[ricker182]

You Patriots fans seen awfully worried about how this is going to turn out.

I can tell you guys think Belichick may have cheated, otherwise you wouldn't be here trying to defend him. You'd laugh it off and ignore us.

[corgi]

Again, I'm not comparing the situations themselves...I'm comparing the way fans responded to speculative conclusions without any proof. The reactions of fans are similar...anti colters jumped to conclusions while colts fans blindly defended him...more than once. The evidence seemed pretty damning, but boy did you guys stick by your guy!

Now you're the ones jumping to conclusions based on speculation, and the only justification you have for your hypocritical response is 'they don't get the benefit fit of the doubt'.

What is so hard about looking at the situation itself, without the past or future or anything else outside the present, and the facts surrounding it and what has been proven or not proven at this point! Put it this way... You can't be selected to a jury if you have any preconceived notions about anything relating to a case....in other words, not a single one of you who mentions spygate as a reason to not let this play out before assuming would even be qualified to make a ruling on this case! You wouldn't even be considered.

Don't be blinded by your preconceived notions, take this investigation for what it is and don't make a decision until the facts are presented and the NFL rules. THAT is why I brought up Marvin Harrison....because if we all jumped the gun and 'ruled' only a week and a half after his name first popped up in that case, we probably would have found him guilty too given the evidence presented. Interesting how things may change when you wait for an investigation to be completed....sometimes it makes all the difference in the world.

Dude I so do not give two craps about any of this anymore.If you think myself or anyone else is a hypocrite that also falls into the don't give a crap pile. You brought up Marvin to deflect comments away from the whole deflation thing, and that's fine however you want to justify it. It's fine. You've wasted so much time trying to get people to wait and not judge the Patriots, and the doesn't matter at all. I still haven't gotten an answer from you about why you care what we think. I'm annoyed that every time I log onto the Colts forum I see 87 recent posts from you about this. All 87 are the same exact post with some words and sentences shuffled around.

 

Have you noticed that since you have been on your crusade not one single Colts fan who was against you to start with has come to your side or agreed? You do realize that even if the Patriots are found "innocent" that pretty much everyone will still think they are guilty right? I don't need a lecture about due process, evidence, and being selected to a jury. I don't care about that in regards to this situation. It doesn't matter to me if you get bent out of shape over it or if you think I'm a bad person. I'm annoyed with your crusade, and the schtick that seems to be on a never ending loop of rinse, wash, repeat. 

 

Do yourself and me a favor and don't respond, because I'm not going to read it. You can give me the winning lotto numbers from now until Armageddon and I still won't respond. Just pointing out that you have done nothing but waste everyone's time and nothing you said about any of this has had any impact on anyone.

[dw49]

Any comment on the Marvin Harrison thing I brought up? How you all blindly defended him, even the 2nd time his gun was connected to a shooting, simply because nothing was proven yet? How you all waited until the investigation was over, even though there was 'a history' of him being involved in some shady behavior previously? What's the difference?

 

 

There really must be something in the air in Baawston. BB is insane still saying they were innocent is spygate. " Something everybody did and in front of 70,000 people" is what he says about that. Then the billionaire with the crooked teeth comes on and says he's awaiting an apology for his crooked coach and lying QB. Then you guys come on and bring up a Marvin Harrison thing and compare it to the NE franchise cheating. Incredible.. What does what Colt fans think of what Harrison's involvement was in that shooting have to do with your team breaking the rules ? Are you people insane ? For the record I knew MH personally as he was a teammate of a relative I had that went to Syracuse. He's a total oddball and God only knows if he was involved. What that has to do with the Pats circumventing NFL rules totally escapes and baffles me. Who gives a flying crap about what this board thinks about his involvement ?  Even if he's guilty , it's one less than the NE TE that looks to have knocked off at least 2 people and only an * would blame he franchise for that * being a serial killer.