Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[crazycolt1]

I hear you but spygate was 7 years ago and ball inflation is not anywhere in the same ball park in terms of an offense. I do think they get fined, probably heavily but not sure much is warranted beyond that. They have not broken any rules since 2007 and this one is not major according to the NFLs own rule book. I guess we will see. I agree it is a poor look again and no Pats fan is happy about it. I am quite angry actually and want answers from Bill and Brady but we do need the rest of the investigation to come out. It is very difficult to prove tampering.

Cheating is cheating. So cheating to a lesser degree is OK in your eyes? They haven't been cheating in 7 years! Not till last Sunday? I have some beach front property for sale here in Indiana and I would give you a real good deal on it. How about it? Property taxes are real cheap here compared to the New England area.

[ElMaestro]

I've been driving and listening to multiple stations, and people/guests all morning.  Many interesting things have come to light I'll recap here in one post (haven't read all posts her so maybe it was coverd by previous, but not likely all these items.

 

1. Colts were already suspicious.  On an interception of the Pats by Mike Adams in Nov, a Colts equipment manger noticed the ball at reduced pressure back then!  So when DQ intercepted, it was checked by equipment guy immediately.  That's when Coach Pagano and Grigson were informed, then the league was informed.

 

2. Every ball, Colts and Patriots, were tested for air pressure 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game.  Every one was determined to be at 13 psi +/- .5 psi.  This is totally acceptable.

 

3. At halftime, all balls we rechecked, and all Colts balls were within spec.  11 of the 12 Patriots balls were 2 lbs below minimum.  That means 11 Patriots balls at 10.5 psi

 

4. All out of compliance ball should have been brought back up to spec at halftime when they were found to be flawed.

 

5. This isn't about whether the Colts could have won the game or not, this is about integrity of the game.  Baseball is dead serious about such matters (IE: Pete Rose, the hit king). We'll see how serious the NFL is about maintaining any integrity in their sport.

 

6. Somebody is accountable if all allegations prove true, and it can't be the pimply faced kid toting around the ball bag.

Good summary and jives with everything I heard over the lunch hour.  

[Superman]

I've been driving and listening to multiple stations, and people/guests all morning.  Many interesting things have come to light I'll recap here in one post (haven't read all posts her so maybe it was coverd by previous, but not likely all these items.

 

1. Colts were already suspicious.  On an interception of the Pats by Mike Adams in Nov, a Colts equipment manger noticed the ball at reduced pressure back then!  So when DQ intercepted, it was checked by equipment guy immediately.  That's when Coach Pagano and Grigson were informed, then the league was informed.

 

2. Every ball, Colts and Patriots, were tested for air pressure 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game.  Every one was determined to be at 13 psis +/- .5 psi.  This is totally acceptable.

 

3. At halftime, all balls we rechecked, and all Colts balls were within spec.  11 of the 12 Patriots balls were 2 lbs below minimum.  That means 11 Patriots balls at 10.5 psi

 

4. All out of compliance ball should have been brought back up to spec at halftime when they were found to be flawed.

 

5. This isn't about whether the Colts could have won the game or not, this is about integrity of the game.  Baseball is dead serious about such matters (IE: Pete Rose, the hit king). We'll see how serious the NFL is about maintaining any integrity in their sport.

 

6. Somebody is accountable if all allegations prove true, and it can't be the pimply faced kid toting around the ball bag.

 

To the bolded, I heard that the balls were reinflated at halftime, then checked again right after the game. I haven't heard whether they were deflated again.

[Dustin]

Legit question: If the Pats forfeit a draft pick, do we get it?

[ColtStronger]

I have no clue.  I'm many years out of practice in my physics.  My response to derakynn was about the weather and how the footballs deflated because of the air temperature outside of the football.  If the patriots footballs deflated because of the weather, then it stands to reason that the Colts footballs would have also deflated.  So if you measured them both and the Patriots footballs were 2 PSI less than the required levels and the Cotls were within the required parameters, then clearly the weather did not have the drastic effect suggested by some defending the Patriots intentionally deflating the football.

Oh, gotcha.  They were obviously tampered with if 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI under required limit, and Colts weren't.  There were quite a few players tweeting about this also, Mark Brunell said Brady would have definitely been able to tell just by feel, so would the refs, and any ordinary person for that matter.

[pgt_rob]

The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred.

[PotatoHead]

Brady would know better then anyone if the balls were deflated and most likely deflated to his preference

[jvan1973]

Just thought about this. Now we know why macafees' punts were so horrible.

they use K balls for punts and kicks

[bababooey]

I'm at work...what's he saying?

NFL needs to make a decision before the teams take off for arizona, you can say "on to seattle" all you want when its funny and youre at home but not on media day on monday, tuesday, wednesday. you can't suspend him for 2 meaningless games next season. the nfl knows everything already they just don't know how they are going to deal with this.

 

Said how air pressure is not an issue, all the balls were checked and approved correctly. dispelled anything about the balls deflating naturally and with weather. talked about thank God the game wasn't close, the colts even admitted it they woulda still gotten smoked. the nfl is thankful this wasnt a close game.

[Superman]

Every time a player gets called for holding, facemask etc, it is a violation of the rules.  Technicaly, it is the same as this violation of the rules.  Likewise, when a player gets away with something it is a violation of the rules.  Nobody ever calls a player a cheater for attempting to gain an advantage by holding.  Is he violating the rules?  Of course.  Is he hoping to gain an advantage by holding.  Of course. 

 

I don't see this as a big deal.  The Colts were outscored by a greater margin after the underinflated balls were discovered.  In my opinion, This (underinflated balls) did not help and are not the reason we lost Sunday.  In retrospect, I would bet that the Pats are sorry they did this because they got caught.  How is that any different than a player getting away with PI, holding, facemask, contact beyond 5 yards or any other violation of the NFL rules? 

 

Bovine excrement. Penalties during play are not cheating. Purposefully and deliberately breaking the rules is cheating. 

[crazycolt1]

there's no confirmed report of any results regarding the Colts balls.

Then why was it reported on ESPN and Yahoo the Colts football tested OK?  You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.

[ColtStronger]

Legit question: If the Pats forfeit a draft pick, do we get it?

Sadly I don't think so.  I think everybody just moves up.

[jvan1973]

Interesting fact: the issue was rectified at the beginning of the 2nd half. The Pats scored 17 points in the first half and 28 in the 2nd half when they were playing with properly inflated balls. So there was absolutely no advantage. In fact, they played worse with under-inflated balls. Point differential may very well have been even greater had they played with properly inflated balls all game long.

Also, Rodgers has stated that he likes to push the boundaries in regards to over-inflating his team's balls. And the Buccaneers did something similar during their SB win. So did the Vikings:

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/green_bay_minnesota_tampa_bay.html

This is a league wide issue. Many teams have done and continue to do this. It's simply personal preference. Some teams like under-inflation, some like over-inflation. They all push the boundaries.

This is a non issue.

its against the rules and cheating

[ColtsBlueFL]

Just thought about this. Now we know why macafees' punts were so horrible.

 

12 special balls are kickers balls.  They are never out of control of the refs, nor are they used in normal field of play duties.  So what Pat and AV do/did is totally on them.

 

[Dustin]

Tom Brady after the Baltimore game "Read the rules".

 

This guy is despicable. Let's see what he says now. 

[dw49]

I agree with that.  I was just adding another layer of arguments on top of it, which is basically what PT said below. 

 

 

Got ya

[bababooey]

Interesting fact: the issue was rectified at the beginning of the 2nd half. The Pats scored 17 points in the first half and 28 in the 2nd half when they were playing with properly inflated balls. So there was absolutely no advantage. In fact, they played worse with under-inflated balls. Point differential may very well have been even greater had they played with properly inflated balls all game long.

 

Also, Rodgers has stated that he likes to push the boundaries in regards to over-inflating his team's balls. And the Buccaneers did something similar during their SB win. So did the Vikings:

 

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/green_bay_minnesota_tampa_bay.html

 

This is a league wide issue. Many teams have done and continue to do this. It's simply personal preference. Some teams like under-inflation, some like over-inflation. They all push the boundaries.

 

This is a non issue.

do you still believe in santa too?

[BrownianMotion]

its against the rules and cheating

 

Against the rules? Yes.

 

Cheating? Absolutely not. By very definition of the word.

 

cheat

 verb \ˈchēt\

: to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something

 

There was no advantage. Therefore it is not cheating.

[Superman]

Legit question: If the Pats forfeit a draft pick, do we get it?

 

I think we should, but no.

[mintor]

Legit question: If the Pats forfeit a draft pick, do we get it?

 

 

yes

[ColtStronger]

I love how Patriot fans and players/Belichek just laugh it off like it's a big conspiracy theory or something, or come up with the excuse, you're just mad cause we beat you so bad, or even like it would've mattered?  SO, the point is that you cheated, and that's against the rules...  Doesn't matter the result of the game.

[ColtsBlueFL]

To the bolded, I heard that the balls were reinflated at halftime, then checked again right after the game. I haven't heard whether they were deflated again.

 

I'm sure that is part of the investigation, and the league has bottled up the leaks about the story, for now.

[NewColtsFan]

I was just thinking the same thing.  The Dirty tricks were unnecessary but were the downfall of that administration.  

It doesn't look good for the Patriots organization.

 

Another question that's bothering me.  Was it the Indy reporter that was the first reported this? Who told him? The NFL has kept things hush hush before.  How was this made public?  Not saying it's not a worthy story.  I'm just wondering

 

It was Kravitz, and I'd guess someone in the Colts organization tipped him late.    The Colts were alerted during the game.   The word got to Grigson.     He alerted the NFL to suspicions....   and then everything started to move....     so my guess is the Colts tipped Kravitz....

[mintor]

Sadly I don't think so.  I think everybody just moves up.

 colts injured party get any picks  from the pats. 

[BrownianMotion]

do you still believe in santa too?

 

No, I believe in facts. Something this thread greatly lacks.

 

In addition to the link I posted earlier, which showed that several teams have done the same thing currently and in the past, here is Terry Bradshaw talking about it in his book:

 

Most fans don’t know it, but before the game we would doctor the footballs that would be used. Until the season of 2000 it was up to the home team to provide twenty-four game balls to the officials for each game. A brand-new NFL football straight from the factory is not easy to throw or catch. It’s rock hard and very slippery. So in the privacy of the locker room before the game, players would take the footballs and rub them and scrub them to remove the glaze, or deflate them, then pump them up with air real big to stretch the leather. On some teams the kickers would put them through a cycle in the dryer. Some teams did this, but naturally not the Steelers, because we were righteous folk who would never stretch the rules, and when these other teams—not the Steelers—were finished, they would put them back in the plastic wrapping and right back in the box. Some teams—who were not the Steelers—after the officials had checked and approved the game balls, would let out a couple of pound of air to make it easier for the quarterback to grip it. A little less air would make the ball spongier. It was what might be called a perceived advantage-both teams played with the same ball.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=wuWJhkUqRKEC&lpg=PA58&vq=doctor&pg=PA67#v=onepage&q=doctor&f=true

[crazycolt1]

omg bro look at yourself just be happy youre in the superbowl and have three titles already, we are allowed to say what we want this is colts.com if you dont like it get out

am is female. not bro.

[Nadine]

Interesting fact: the issue was rectified at the beginning of the 2nd half. The Pats scored 17 points in the first half and 28 in the 2nd half when they were playing with properly inflated balls. So there was absolutely no advantage. In fact, they played worse with under-inflated balls. Point differential may very well have been even greater had they played with properly inflated balls all game long.

 

Also, Rodgers has stated that he likes to push the boundaries in regards to over-inflating his team's balls. And the Buccaneers did something similar during their SB win. So did the Vikings:

 

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/green_bay_minnesota_tampa_bay.html

 

This is a league wide issue. Many teams have done and continue to do this. It's simply personal preference. Some teams like under-inflation, some like over-inflation. They all push the boundaries.

 

This is a non issue.

 

Obviously it's a  personal preference and I have no clue how widespread it is in the league to change the ball after it's been approved as within specs.

 

Sounds like the argument kids make "Everybody does it"

 

It's not a non issue.  There are rules and procedures in place for this and that means it is an issue.

[Nadine]

It was Kravitz, and I'd guess someone in the Colts organization tipped him late.    The Colts were alerted during the game.   The word got to Grigson.     He alerted the NFL to suspicions....   and then everything started to move....     so my guess is the Colts tipped Kravitz....

That's interesting to me.  Maybe wanted to make sure this was not swept under the rug

[Dustin]

Patriots fans have gone from "this sounds ridiculous" to "everybody does it!"

[ColtStronger]

 colts injured party get any picks  from the pats. 

Well hopefully it is a 1st round pick!  Then I wouldn't be so mad afterall lol 

Kidding, yes I would, the team needs serious repricussion for cheating multiple times.  Sounds like Colts were already aware of this before, when Mike Adams picked off Brady last game and the staff thought the ball was a little deflated.

[BrownianMotion]

Obviously it's a  personal preference and I have no clue how widespread it is in the league to change the ball after it's been approved as within specs.

 

Sounds like the argument kids make "Everybody does it"

 

It's not a non issue.  There are rules and procedures in place for this and that means it is an issue.

Kevin Clark ✔ @KevinClarkWSJ

NFL head coaches here at Senior Bowl seem downright offended that people think this deflation stuff is a big deal.

 

Sounds to me like it's pretty widespread and a non issue.

[bavanlan]

Which still needs to be proven. But feel free to assume...

[mintor]

 colts injured party get any picks  from the pats. 

[Superman]

 

Against the rules? Yes.

 

Cheating? Absolutely not. By very definition of the word.

 

cheat

 verb \ˈchēt\

: to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something

 

There was no advantage. Therefore it is not cheating.

 

 

So, Belichick is the greatest mind in the NFL, right? He broke the rules, but there's no advantage? Why?

 

This is nonsense. The Pats cheated. Again.

[Dustin]

It was Kravitz, and I'd guess someone in the Colts organization tipped him late.    The Colts were alerted during the game.   The word got to Grigson.     He alerted the NFL to suspicions....   and then everything started to move....     so my guess is the Colts tipped Kravitz....

 

Yeah, Grigson or someone high up in the Colts administration leaked this.

[PrincetonTiger]

colts injured party get any picks  from the pats.

I did not know that

[Dustin]

Kevin Clark ✔ @KevinClarkWSJ

NFL head coaches here at Senior Bowl seem downright offended that people think this deflation stuff is a big deal.

 

Sounds to me like it's pretty widespread and a non issue.

 

And there are NFL  player out right calling the Patriots cheaters. Jerry Rice, Terrence Knighton, ect..

[Dan'l Boom]

For the same reason premeditated murder carries a harsher sentence than manslaughter.  

Both are murder.  If it's the "same reason", then you agree "holding" is cheating.  And anyone caught holding is a "cheater".

 

By your analogy, a player who physically harms another while committing a rules infraction would be guilty of a greater cheating?

[ElMaestro]

Kevin Clark ✔ @KevinClarkWSJ

NFL head coaches here at Senior Bowl seem downright offended that people think this deflation stuff is a big deal.

 

Sounds to me like it's pretty widespread and a non issue.

Circling the wagons, IMO.  Circling the wagons.  

[Nadine]

Kevin Clark ✔ @KevinClarkWSJ

NFL head coaches here at Senior Bowl seem downright offended that people think this deflation stuff is a big deal.

 

Sounds to me like it's pretty widespread and a non issue.

Gonna need more than that Kevin Clark.  Name Names and also let me know if you are a Pats fan