Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[House]

No but wait, people on here have said they hate cheaters no matter what? Now it sounds like you hate some cheaters, but let others slide because "the games don't matter as much".

If that isn't some sort of wacky double standard than I don't know what is.

People also hate multiple offense cheaters who cheat in the biggest games too. If this were accusations against the Ravens or Colts. You would be melting down.

[RockThatBlue]

Where is the Rodgers outcry then?

It is absolutely 100% because of the Pats success and that they were caught 8 years ago... If the fricken Jets were caught, no one blink twice. Rodgers admitted on the air to overinflating the balls to get a better grip, where is the outrage? Carolina was caught heating balls, AGAINST THE RULES! Show me the 50 page thread dedicated to that?

You guys are fooling yourselves over the "no one likes cheaters" line. We all know it's because it happened to the Pats.

False.

[bababooey]

If BB is the supposed smartest coach in football, how is he the only one caught doing illegal things that everyone else is doing?

[bababooey]

nothing is confirmed from the league about any of it. Butthe same people reporting about the pats balls said all the colts balls were in spec at halftime

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

 

Source: Footballs were properly checked before Colts-Patriots game

[Cynjin]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

Here is somemore info that I did not see posted. It answers a couple of the questions being asked.

[Valpo2004]

So you are comparing a rampant steroid user/abuser with deflated footballs?

 

If you ask me the deflated footballs is worse.  

 

At least with cycling they can just give the win to the guy who was in 2nd place as he likely would have won if Lance wasn't doping.  Even with doping football players they are regularly tested, so a key player doping can't bring into question everything they've done in their entire career, just what they've done between their last test and the one they where caught on.

 

Deflated footballs we can't go back and see how the game would have gone if the Pats used properly inflated footballs.  

 

Maybe Tom Brady is a bum who can't throw a properly inflated football and would have been out of the league in a year or 2 like most 6th round draft picks.  Is it likely?  No, but we can't rule it out because we have no idea how long they have been doing this.

 

Maybe Belichek is a terrible coach who can't win consistently without cheating.  Likely? No but you can't rule it out.

 

You don't know that because no one can say for certain that they played in any game without cheating.  And even a minimal edge is still an edge.  Given how many games are decided by 1 score, it's huge IMO.

 

And don't get me wrong, this has zero to do with the Colt's game and everything to do with every game before that. 

[amfootball]

If you ask me the deflated footballs is worse.  

 

At least with cycling they can just give the win to the guy who was in 2nd place as he likely would have won if Lance wasn't doping.  Even with doping football players they are regularly tested, so a key player doping can't bring into question everything they've done in their entire career, just what they've done between their last test and the one they where caught on.

 

Deflated footballs we can't go back and see how the game would have gone if the Pats used properly inflated footballs.  

 

Maybe Tom Brady is a bum who can't throw a properly inflated football and would have been out of the league in a year or 2 like most 6th round draft picks.  Is it likely?  No, but we can't rule it out because we have no idea how long they have been doing this.

 

Maybe Belichek is a terrible coach who can't win consistently without cheating.  Likely? No but you can't rule it out.

 

You don't know that because no one can say for certain that they played in any game without cheating.  And even a minimal edge is still an edge.  Given how many games are decided by 1 score, it's huge IMO.

 

And don't get me wrong, this has zero to do with the Colt's game and everything to do with every game before that. 

Wow. Just wow.

[Turftoe]

After reading so many messages on the IndyStar website, there's a real trend: While a few (very few) Colts fans that suggest the loss was attributable to the footballs, most have gone out of their way to say that it was not the reason they lost (got trounced).  However, most every Pats fan says that the Colts fans are blaming the loss on the footballs with varying degrees of insults - not a one has expressed disappointment in possible cheating.

 

I was telling a friend on Monday that I wish we had Bellichick - I likened him to Bobby Knight.  Both are brilliant minds at their respective sport and don't care what the press or public has to say.  Now, seeing another example of the Pats skirting the rules, I have to say Bill doesn't belong in the same breath with Mr. Knight (even being the * that he is).

[Hoosier]

The reason this has exploded, though, is because of the Patriots' past transgressions, more so than their sustained success. And that's why as a fan I'm pretty angry this morning with BB.

Refreshing and admirable honesty.

[Cynjin]

Where is the Rodgers outcry then?

 

It is absolutely 100% because of the Pats success and that they were caught 8 years ago... If the fricken Jets were caught, no one blink twice.  Rodgers admitted on the air to overinflating the balls to get a better grip, where is the outrage?  Carolina was caught heating balls, AGAINST THE RULES!  Show me the 50 page thread dedicated to that?

 

You guys are fooling yourselves over the "no one likes cheaters" line.  We all know it's because it happened to the Pats.

Why would there being any outrage over Rodgers? Rodgers was saying that he liked overinflated footballs and that the Refs would take air out of the footballs when they inspected them. There is no evidence that Rodgers had the footballs overinflated after the inspection.

[ElMaestro]

A simple question, and one I do not know because I don't do this, but do Colts fans go over to Patriots forums and post?  I've never even thought of doing something like that, but it appears we have plenty of New England fans here posting.  

[HoggHannah]

People also hate multiple offense cheaters who cheat in the biggest games too. If this were accusations against the Ravens or Colts. You would be melting down.

 

Do you have any clue how many rules violations there were recently?  Come on take a guess.

 

The Seahawks held illegal practices.

The Jets repeated tampered with players.

Washington and Dallas recently violated the cap.

The Pittsburgh coach tried to trip a player IN THE FIELD OF PLAY.

 

Where is the outrage?

[Hoosier]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

Here is somemore info that I did not see posted. It answers a couple of the questions being asked.

That's great news that the league isn't going to take the bullet for them.

[HoggHannah]

Why would there being any outrage over Rodgers? Rodgers was saying that he liked overinflated footballs and that the Refs would take air out of the footballs when they inspected them. There is no evidence that Rodgers had the footballs overinflated after the inspection.

 

He said that he intentionally inflated the balls and try to pass inspection.  That's intent to cheat is it not?

 

I guess it doesn't count unless you get caught, right?

[SouthernCal]

Do you have any clue how many rules violations there were recently? Come on take a guess.

The Seahawks held illegal practices.

The Jets repeated tampered with players.

Washington and Dallas recently violated the cap.

The Pittsburgh coach tried to trip a player IN THE FIELD OF PLAY.

Where is the outrage?

There were outrage in the Pittsburgh coach trip incident.

Dallas is going to have problems signing their best players this year. No idea what's going on with Washington.

Even Seattle players was using addarell and there were outrage and suspensions.

[jvan1973]

Do you have any clue how many rules violations there were recently? Come on take a guess.

The Seahawks held illegal practices.

The Jets repeated tampered with players.

Washington and Dallas recently violated the cap.

The Pittsburgh coach tried to trip a player IN THE FIELD OF PLAY.

Where is the outrage?

There was plenty of outrage, and all have been punished and the jets are being investigated

[dw49]

Not sure if this is brought up in the 33 page thread but in case it isn't here it is....

 

There is no need to investigate and prove that this was done to punish New England. I'm sure the NFL would love to get to the bottom of it but here's what I'm saying.

 

The Colts balls have been found to be OK. So that lets weather out of the equation.

The 11 Pat balls all show the same amount of deflation .. 2 lbs.

 

The above makes it 100% guilty of tampering with the balls. There is no way in heck a jury would deliberate more than 15 minutes on this one.

 

 

If already covered ... delete this

[ruksak]

I heard them discussing how this incident may effect the Super Bowl on ESPN First Take, and boy did they miss the big factor. 

 

Here's something that occurred to me, and I'm curious what others think;

 

Will this cause a profound homefield advantage for the Seahawks, now that certainly many of the fans will view NE as the "bad guys" in this contest? My suspicion is that this will be the most 1-sided crowd in Super Bowl history. The Seahawks were already likely going to be represented well, as they were last year. But this changes things, it causes neutral or non-committal fans to profoundly root against the CHEAT's. 

[jvan1973]

He said that he intentionally inflated the balls and try to pass inspection. That's intent to cheat is it not?

I guess it doesn't count unless you get caught, right?

I think BB has that last sentence tattooed on his back

Also, the packers didn't tamper with the balls after inspection

[pacolts56]

Where is the Rodgers outcry then?

 

It is absolutely 100% because of the Pats success and that they were caught 8 years ago... If the fricken Jets were caught, no one blink twice.  Rodgers admitted on the air to overinflating the balls to get a better grip, where is the outrage?  Carolina was caught heating balls, AGAINST THE RULES!  Show me the 50 page thread dedicated to that?

 

You guys are fooling yourselves over the "no one likes cheaters" line.  We all know it's because it happened to the Pats. 

If that's the case then Rodgers is a cheater as well.

 

Like Laron Landry is a cheater....and got whacked for it.

 

I make no distinction between a Colts cheater or a Pats cheater or a Browns "texting" cheater.

[Dustin]

The Patriots have ruined their legacies. Tom Brady and Belichick will never be recognized as GOATs because they will forever be known as cheaters.

[HoggHannah]

Also, the packers didn't tamper with the balls after inspection

 

Must be great being a Colts fan and having the ability to throw out unconfirmed information at a whim and not get called on it.

[Nadine]

Before the news came out that 11 of the 12 Patriots game balls were deflated you said that this was such a serious accusation that the colts would look bad because they blew the whistle because they lost so badly.  You were spinning the issue into sour grapes but you did say it was serious

What I am implying in my obtuseness is the first part of your statement. That is all that is needed and the second half of your statement is the conjecture that people will jump too. That is why the accusation itself is so serious and has warranted a league investigation.

 
 
Today your take is spinning the other direction.  It's not a serious accusation, it's only a story because the Pats are a winning franchise

I was talking about the public at large Gramz not you personally. The public at large would view this as a non story if it was a perennial loser like the Jags but because it is the most winning franchise of the past 15 years you get the crazy, over the top reactions.

Sorry but it is still a serious accusation regardless of how much the Patriots deserved the win and the Colts deserved the loss.

 

Don't blame the whistle blower.  Blame your organization

[amfootball]

I heard them discussing how this incident may effect the Super Bowl on ESPN First Take, and boy did they miss the big factor. 

 

Here's something that occurred to me, and I'm curious what others think;

 

Will this cause a profound homefield advantage for the Seahawks, now that certainly many of the fans will view NE as the "bad guys" in this contest? My suspicion is that this will be the most 1-sided crowd in Super Bowl history. 

I think it was going to be decidedly a Hawks crowd anyways. They travel well and the location is much closer than for us in NE. And NE was already more hated before all this.

 

I can see this galvanizing the Pats team the same way spygate did which could be a good motivation for them. We'll see ... still so much to come out of the investigation.

[HoggHannah]

If that's the case then Rodgers is a cheater as well.

 

Like Laron Landry is a cheater....and got whacked for it.

 

I make no distinction between a Colts cheater or a Pats cheater or a Browns "texting" cheater.

 

I eagerly await the Rodgers is a cheater thread.  Not holding my breath though.

[SouthernCal]

Must be great being a Colts fan and having the ability to throw out unconfirmed information at a whim and not get called on it.

You're in the colts forums........

[jvan1973]

Must be great being a Colts fan and having the ability to throw out unconfirmed information at a whim and not get called on it.

Must be nice to be a pats fan and have your head stuck in the sand

[Valpo2004]

No but wait, people on here have said they hate cheaters no matter what?  Now it sounds like you hate some cheaters, but let others slide because "the games don't matter as much".

 

If that isn't some sort of wacky double standard than I don't know what is.

 

I hate cheaters period, if the Titans or the Jags where cheating I wouldn't say "lets just let them go".  They would have to be punished and if they cheated multiple times I would say suspended forever.

 

But when cheaters win (which the titans and the jags don't) it calls everything, the entire history of the game into question.  

 

Did the Pats ever legitimately win a game?  Did they ever legitimately win a SB?  We don't know.  Championships write the history of the game.  Not the last place team.  

 

The teams that could have possibly been screwed of their own championship by the Pats are numerous.  Championships change careers for coaches, they give the fans of that team pride and joy.  We will never know who lost out on all of that because the Pats deflated footballs and maybe made catches that they might have not made with legtimate footballs.

[peytonmanning18]

Still wondering how said team managed a 28-0 second half domination with fully inflated balls? I thought this was a huge cheat that shook the foundations of integrity. Could it be that it really doesn't make a difference and this is massively overblown? It not like we don't have other players coming forward (see Rodgers, Johnson), with similar stories.

Had the final score been 42-41, the Patriots would still be just as big of cheaters as they are with a 42-7 win. There is nothing less relevant about this whole thing than the final score of the game.

[Buck Showalter]

You're in the colts forums........

a pats fan on a Colts forum celebrating  a sb berth by blindly defending the shady transgressions of the pats organization!!!

classic

[House]

Do you have any clue how many rules violations there were recently? Come on take a guess.

The Seahawks held illegal practices.

The Jets repeated tampered with players.

Washington and Dallas recently violated the cap.

The Pittsburgh coach tried to trip a player IN THE FIELD OF PLAY.

Where is the outrage?

There was outrage for 2/4 of those examples.

You fail at playing the victim. But your blind loyalty is admirable.

[ColtStronger]

It's not the fact that the Colts lost, because they would've lost anyway, it's the principle of cheating.  There was SpyGate and now DeflateGate.  Plus didn't they have another teams playbook once?  Also the crap with the ineligible WR, and I'm sure there is more I can't think of (even more on top of that, perhaps they were never caught).  It is about damn time the Pats face serious consequences.  To think they only lose a draft pick (because they're team is already so good), or a fine (because they're filthy rich anyway), and slap them on the wrist by that after how many times of being caught doing illegal or immoral things.  All of them coming from the Belichek era.  In other sports you see heisman winners and record breakers get banned or their acheivements vacated (Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Reggie Bush, Pete Rose) from all different sports, the NFL even suspended Sean Peyton for a season and other players for a role in the bounty scandal.  Richie Incognito for bullying!  These are 1 time getting caught, although some of them cheated or did immoral things for a long period of time and then got caught, but the Patriots are habitual offenders!!  It think a severe punishment is definitely warranted.  I'm talking Vacated SB's, or at least suspend Belichek and Kraft for a whole season!!  I mean it's gone way too far, and nothing has been done.  Unfortunately with the difference between these scandals and Pat's, is that the NFL tries to downplay the severity and keep everything hush hush.  I'm so sick and tired of it!!  A statement from other owners and fans need to be made!

 

BTW I saw a pic on FB that Goddell was at Roberts Kraft's house (Pats owner) the night before the game!!  Sure it could be a fake picture, no evidence proving it wasn't photoshopped, but it had to be recent because on the TV in the background it was a Pats-Ravens game (perhaps of the Divisional Round?)  This all smells a little fishy to me. 

 

I for one am boycotting the SB and wish I was a public figure, only to speak out and have others join me.  I would love to see the NFL lose viewers for the precious Cheat Bowl (Pete Carroll is a cheater also.  Has numerous allegations with USC... "Once a cheater, always a cheater").  Wouldn't it be a shame if fans were sick of Goddell's antics (Ray Rice scandal amongst others), in his tenure with the NFL, and didn't watch the game, causing marketers to lose millions for their overpaid 30 second time slot during the SB, and them dropping the NFL as a sponser? 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

Using my chemistry knowledge I did some calculations. Assumg The indoors were 70 degrees and the balls were at the minimum allowed PSI of 13.5, there is no chance the balls weren't tampered with (Barring 11 balls having holes in then). The change in temperature (which I assumed to be 40 during the game) would only account for a maximum change of 1 psi ( .9 to be exact at 12.6 psi. Much lower than the 2 that the balls were found to be devoid of. So throw out any of your temperature theories.

Not only that, but the Colts footballs would have also deflated under the same circumstances.  It'd be helpful to know what the weight of those were.

[Indeee]

I'm a Colts fan first and foremost of all else. If what the reports say is true the balls deflated we're checked at halftime. So? what was done about it? we're the balls removed from play? My point is that at half it was 17-7 while using deflated balls, well if they removed thise balls than the Pats played much better with regulation balls as they poured it on after halftime. This deflation did not hamper the outcome to me.

 

Okay, the point of intent here to gain advantage. This is where I have issue and it goes to every team but specifically the Pats as it always seems they are up to something. We truly can't be naive here to think they aren't concocting something all the time and sometimes they get caught, most times they are not. THIS IS THE ISSUE. There shouldn't be any teams trying to gain an advantage over anither team outside of REAL game planning, home field advantage (which is earned) fairly or at least should be and stratedgy through true drafting and coaching.

 

This is where the Pats become dispised by me. They are going beyond the natural, legal advantages everyone can normally obtain. So what does that say about this "so called genius coach". What it says to me is that he doesn't trust his 1) Coaching ability, 2) Player accountability, 3) Players in general and 4) Seems to have a huge fear of the "every given sunday" cliche.

 

Take this into consideration. Why do you believe fans and coaches and players alike get so upset when officials make bad calls to determine outcome of games? Heck why was instant replay created in the first place. Answer: TO STOP AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE outside of normal legal circumstance governed and granted to each team in the NFL.

 

If those of you arguing and steaming cannot understand why this is a huge issue especially when the Pats are concerned then you have fell off the boat and are swimming in the sea of dillusional.

 

Alas, until the NFL steps in and takes away seriously meaningful things, this stuff will continue to happen. Strip the offenders of championships, records, income sharing or trophies. Draft picks aren't enough in my opinion and neither are personal fines that can easily be accumulated back the first quarter of the following season

 

Just my take

[HoggHannah]

I hate cheaters period, if the Titans or the Jags where cheating I wouldn't say "lets just let them go".  They would have to be punished and if they cheated multiple times I would say suspended forever.

 

 

 

IF?  Carolina WAS cheating and got caught.  They got off with a warning.

 

See this to me is laughable, and shows cherry picking.  Ignore the cheaters, except the ones you don't like.

[Cynjin]

He said that he intentionally inflated the balls and try to pass inspection.  That's intent to cheat is it not?

 

I guess it doesn't count unless you get caught, right?

It would count if he had the footballs over-inflated after the inspection. The issue at hand is that it appears that the Patriots had the footballs deflated after the inspection, if the Patriots had submitted under-inflated footballs before the inspection and the refs reinflated the footballs there would be no issue.

[PrincetonTiger]

The Patriots have ruined their legacies. Tom Brady and Belichick will never be recognized as GOATs because they will forever be known as cheaters.

Agreed

Their Accomplishments will be questioned from now on Ala The Raiders of the Stickum era

[Buck Showalter]

It's not the fact that the Colts lost, because they would've lost anyway, it's the principle of cheating.  There was SpyGate and now DeflateGate.  Plus didn't they have another teams playbook once?  Also the crap with the ineligible WR.  It is about damn time the Pats face serious consequences.  To think they only lose a draft pick (because they're team is already so good), or a fine (because they're filthy rich anyway), and slap them on the wrist by that after how many times of being caught doing illegal or immoral things.  All of them coming from the Belichek era.  In other sports you see heisman winners and record breakers get banned or their acheivements vacated (Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Reggie Bush, Pete Rose) from all different sports, the NFL even suspended Sean Peyton for a season and other players for a role in the bounty scandal.  Richie Incognito for bullying!  These are 1 time getting caught, although some of them cheated or did immoral things for a long period of time and then got caught, but the Patriots are habitual offenders!!  It think a severe punishment is definitely warranted.  I'm talking Vacated SB's, or at least suspend Belichek and Kraft for a whole season!!  I mean it's gone way too far, and nothing has been done.  Unfortunately with the difference between these scandals and Pat's, is that the NFL tries to downplay the severity and keep everything hush hush.  I'm so sick and tired of it!!  A statement from other owners and fans need to be made!

 

BTW I saw a pic on FB that Goddell was at Roberts Kraft's house (Pats owner) the night before the game!!  Sure it could be a fake picture, no evidence proving it wasn't photoshopped, but it had to be recent because on the TV in the background it was a Pats-Ravens game (perhaps of the Divisional Round?)  This all smells a little fishy to me. 

 

I for one am boycotting the SB and wish I was a public figure, only to speak out and have others join me.  I would love to see the NFL lose viewers for the precious Cheat Bowl (Pete Carroll is a cheater also.  Has numerous allegations with USC... "Once a cheater, always a cheater").  Wouldn't it be a shame if fans were sick of Goddell's antics (Ray Rice scandal amongst others), in his tenure with the NFL, and didn't watch the game, causing marketers to lose millions for their overpaid 30 second time slot during the SB, and them dropping the NFL as a sponser? 

 

whats up with goodell's pants???

don't the kraft's have toilet's???

looks like he just wet himself!!

[ruksak]

I think it was going to be decidedly a Hawks crowd anyways. They travel well and the location is much closer than for us in NE. And NE was already more hated before all this.

 

 

You remember about 24 hours ago I was calling for NE to blow the Hawks out. 

 

Well......this changes things dramatically IMO. I believe the home field advantage will be profound, as in, y'all won't be able to hear a dang thing. 

 

 

I can see this galvanizing the Pats team the same way spygate did which could be a good motivation for them. We'll see ... still so much to come out of the investigation.

I honestly don't think it's gonna work like that this time. We're not talking about critics saying they're not good enough. Your team is under fire, and it's about to get much much worse, especially if things continue on the current trajectory. I cannot fathom a much greater distraction than this, a distraction that should give your team little fire and lots of shame. Shamed people don't typically perform well. 

[HoggHannah]

It would count if he had the footballs over-inflated after the inspection. The issue at hand is that it appears that the Patriots had the footballs deflated after the inspection, if the Patriots had submitted under-inflated footballs before the inspection and the refs reinflated the footballs there would be no issue.

 

Which still needs to be proven.  But feel free to assume...