Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[ruksak]

But it was the New England Patriots. In a championship game. Under the same coach and QB that were caught cheating before. So Yes you are correct the outrage would be different if it was week 17 titans vs jags. But it's not.

What's being ignored so far by the media; Would the Patriots have gotten this far if they didn't cheat with Baltimore? Did they do this (and other things) against Balt? Would the Colts be in the SB if the Ravens had advanced to come here, instead of us facing the Pats in a rain soaked cheating affair? 

 

This is a tangled web, far more convoluted than many in the media are willing to indulge in. 

[House]

Hey guys I'm sure this is in no way influenced by the fact that I am a Pats fan, but no big deal. Amirite?!?!

[Buck Showalter]

Props to all the pats fans standing by their team and justifying ballsgate that takes a special kind of 'championship' mentality!

[corgi]

So you're admitting that it wouldnt be a big deal if it was another team....but because it is the Patriots, the response is different?

Patriots have a history of cheating, it would still be the same outcry because it's a bigger deal than Patriots want to admit. It may be turned up to 11 instead of 10, but to think no one would care if it were another team is just blind Patriot homerism.

[ruksak]

So you're admitting that it wouldnt be a big deal if it was another team....but because it is the Patriots, the response is different?

First of all; Y'all got caught once already for cheating. Y'all were accused of cheating against the rams and it could never be empirically verified.

 

So yes, because it's the Patriots, people are naturally more aggressive when dealing with a multiple offender. Even our justice system abides by such parameters. 

[House]

Props to all the pats fans standing by their team and justifying ballsgate that takes a special kind of 'championship' mentality!

Are you familiar with Jonestown.......

[corgi]

Also props to Pats fans for twisting every comment to try themselves feel better about their scummy franchise.

[That Guy]

So you're admitting that it wouldnt be a big deal if it was another team....but because it is the Patriots, the response is different?

 

Rightfully so.  The Patriots know that they are under more scrutiny than any other team (we all know why).  Instead of trying to go out and prove to the world that they can play by the rules, they seem to cheat and attract controversy more than any other team.  These things tend to become bigger deals when they're repeated...  and repeated...  and repeated...

 

If they want the scrutiny and the stigma around them to end, all they have to do is stop cheating (or as Belichick would see it, stop getting caught).

[House]

So you're admitting that it wouldnt be a big deal if it was another team....but because it is the Patriots, the response is different?

You realize that multiple time offenders are always treated differently, in the context of our legal system, than first time offenders right? Public opinion is no different.

[ruksak]

Are you familiar with Jonestown.......

Hey.....Jim Jones was honest about what he was doing. He is no Bill Belichick. 

[pacolts56]

Cheaters gunna cheat. BB will be exonerated as they find a corrupt ball boy or something. You know they will find a great excuse for it, you just feel it coming. NFL will get BB over this, it's good for ratings even though they hate him.

IMO, anyone drawing a paycheck from Robert Kraft that had knowledge or participation in this should get slammed with harsh individual discipline...in addition to the team as a whole.

That goes for Belichick, who lords over everything BUT those paychecks, and will now suddenly plead ignorance....all the way down to the part-time ball boy.

I'm not expecting it....but I really hope Goodell scorches the earth on this one.

[House]

Can someone photoshop BB and Tom Brady, into the meme of the kid saying he wants to do "hoodrat stuff with my friends."

I would very much enjoy that.

[bababooey]

So you're admitting that it wouldnt be a big deal if it was another team....but because it is the Patriots, the response is different?

Correct, New England gets no benefit of the doubt due to the game being a championship game and their history of cheating.

[House]

Hey.....Jim Jones was honest about what he was doing. He is no Bill Belichick.

Once again Ruk. You have proven me a fool.

I shall now retreat into my shame cave....

[dynasty13]

Again, I'm not justifying anything...and it sounds like most responding are, in fact, agreeing with my assessment that 'because its the Patriots, people are angry'.

 

That isn't me defending the action, I'm simply giving my opinion on the responses to it.

 

As was asked on one of the news programs...is this any different than say, pine tar on a pitchers hand? A hockey stick with a little extra bend? All are against the rules and Im not saying whether or not is the same...but I believe the vitriolic response to THIS one is 100% attributed to the team that is under question...and not the action itself.

 

That's all I was asking, I was just curious.

[ruksak]

I shall now retreat into my shame cave....

You can't. The shame cave is full of Patriots. 

[GoColts8818]

Well... balls.  ;)

 

A few Pats fan thoughts:

 

1. If Mortenson's sources are correct, then of course the Patriots should be held accountable. I'm not sure that we (Patriots fans) have just blindly defended the team here... we just asked that people reserve judgment until the facts come out. But I'm not going to sit here and argue the merits of the rule and the alleged violation. 

 

2. Very disappointed as a fan, only because BB has got to realize that after Spygate, everything the Patriots do is (deservedly) under the microscope. Why even risk it at this point? Once you're embroiled in any sort of controversial situation, controversy will always follow you. BB needed to keep his nose, and his team's nose, clean for the duration of his run here, and he didn't do that. It's pathetic on a lot of levels and I can't believe I'm actually considering the notion of Kraft firing him for it, but I am. 

 

3. While in my heart of hearts I don't believe for a second that this ultimately impacted the outcome on Sunday, the Patriots owe the Colts an apology. I heard this morning that one Colts player (they didn't name him) tweeted out that this didn't swing the game, and that the Patriots would have won if they used a bar of soap instead of a football (great line whoever that was). But still, any deliberate manipulation of the balls makes an apology necessary. When they're done with that, the next one should go out to us, their fans. All I do is park myself on a comfy couch about once a week between September and mid-winter to watch games. We've supported them all along. And this type of nonsense not only impacts the players, it impacts us. 

 

4. If you're a Colts fan or fan of another team who is enjoying this, can't say I blame you. Have a blast. There's no excuse for what NE allegedly did and here's your chance to pile on. 

 

5. I've been wondering this morning if the fumbles in the Ravens game (one by Amendola, recovered, one by Edelman, recovered, and one by Vereen that was reviewed and overruled) had something to do with this. Ball security was an issue in that game, and BB harped on it all week prior to the AFCCG. If it's been a longstanding practice it just seems odd that it would only come out now, especially given the points I mentioned in bullet #2. 

 

 

To my fellow Pats fans:

 

There is no point at this stage of the game in presenting any strawman arguments or pointing to other instances where the rules about ball prep may have been broken by other teams. Yes, it seems unjust on a lot of levels that it's made out to be a big deal because it's New England. But that is what Belichick's actions have brought upon the fan base. 

 

The simple fact is that it certainly appears as though there was a deliberate violation of the rules. If they're exonerated somehow of course this is all null and void, but from what we know this morning, they appear guilty. And the violation of the rules last Sunday has nothing to do with anything that any other team or QB has done. If you get pulled over for speeding, it doesn't help your case to say, "Well I bet some guy drove through here 10 minutes ago going even faster than I did!" 

 

No matter what other people tell you, there is no asterisk next to the previous NE championships. If they win a week from Sunday, there will be no asterisk next to that one either. 

 

I'm a lifelong New Englander and will be rooting for them a week from Sunday. Don't get me wrong. But at this point, with everything that's happened, the Patriots were foolish to put themselves in this spot and deserve whatever punishment they get.

i like this for the most part and frankly if the Pats hadnt been caught cheating before this would still be a story but I don't know how big. So you are correct when you say that BB's actions have brought this on the franchise.

I will also say that while there won't be an asterisk next to your championships to a lot of people they are gong to be viewed differently because like I said before its very hard to believe that the only two times they cheated they just happened to get caught. The league isn't going to remove those titles or put an asterisk by them but a lot of people are going to view the Pats as having cheated to win them.

[JustAColtsFan]

Here is one thing I dont get. Luck has been throwing footballs since he was probably 3 or 4. He KNOWS what a properly inflated ball feels like. A couple pounds of psi would be instantly noticeable to him. Brady is a mechanics freak, I dont think he would play with an underinflated ball either, would throw off his mechanics.

 

Neither QB was asking for new balls during the game that I could see.

Only the balls that the Patriots were using on offense were underinflated.  It doesn't effect the flight of the thrown ball but greatly enhances the ability to grip the ball.  This makes it easier to throw, catch and hold onto in wet an cold conditions.  Therefore it is and advantage and is cheating.  Quote from ESPN "11 of the 12 Patriot balls were found to be underinflated"  not the balls the Colts were using.  If Jackson hadn't intercepted Brady in the 2nd quarter they probably would have gotten away with it.  He gave the intercepted ball to one of the Colt's equipment manager who felt it was underinflated and reported it to Grigson and Pagano.

[House]

Again, I'm not justifying anything...and it sounds like most responding are, in fact, agreeing with my assessment that 'because its the Patriots, people are angry'.

That isn't me defending the action, I'm simply giving my opinion on the responses to it.

As was asked on one of the news programs...is this any different than say, pine tar on a pitchers hand? A hockey stick with a little extra bend? All are against the rules and Im not saying whether or not is the same...but I believe the vitriolic response to THIS one is 100% attributed to the team that is under question...and not the action itself.

That's all I was asking, I was just curious.

You were absolutely, and continue on, justifying the situation, and the outrage, not asking an innocuous question lol.

People seem to not enjoy cheaters cheating multiple times and getting no repercussions, that's not a Pats thing. That's a life thing.

[House]

You can't. The shame cave is full of Patriots.

I think they're all on denial hill right now, but I'll check for you.

[dynasty13]

You were absolutely, and continue on, justifying the situation, and the outrage, not asking an innocuous question lol.

People seem to not enjoy cheaters cheating multiple times and getting no repercussions, that's not a Pats thing. That's a life thing.

 

I didn't realize that I made the point that all those instances I mentioned were ok...I was simply asking if the responses we're seeing were worthy of 'the crime'.

 

And as it turns out, many are agreeing with me about it only being blown up this much if because its the Patriots. Nowhere did I say what they did was ok...I have only mentioned the responses to the action in each of my posts...

[Cynjin]

He may but this is no way in the same ball park as bountygate .... or spygate for that matter.

I think the problem is that if this is true, and I want to emphasize that the investigation is not complete, it is not the first time the Patriots have been caught doing this sort of thing. If fining the organization and coach and taking away a first round pick is not enough of a deterrent then the NFL needs to find some punishment that will be a deterrent.

[Derakynn]

Using my chemistry knowledge I did some calculations. Assumg The indoors were 70 degrees and the balls were at the minimum allowed PSI of 13.5, there is no chance the balls weren't tampered with (Barring 11 balls having holes in then). The change in temperature (which I assumed to be 40 during the game) would only account for a maximum change of 1 psi ( .9 to be exact at 12.6 psi. Much lower than the 2 that the balls were found to be devoid of. So throw out any of your temperature theories.

[House]

I didn't realize that I made the point that all those instances I mentioned were ok...I was simply asking if the responses we're seeing were worthy of 'the crime'.

And as it turns out, many are agreeing with me about it only being blown up this much if because its the Patriots. Nowhere did I say what they did was ok...I have only mentioned the responses to the action in each of my posts...

Justifying it as a "lesser cheat", is justifying the situation. And yes people are reacting because a multiple offender of cheating, is accused of cheating. Find me anywhere, that isn't the case. It's not a Pats thing. It's a people hate cheaters thing.

[House]

https://vine.co/v/OIehxX6j6iw

[amfootball]

I think the problem is that if this is true, and I want to emphasize that the investigation is not complete, it is not the first time the Patriots have been caught doing this sort of thing. If fining the organization and coach and taking away a first round pick is not enough of a deterrent then the NFL needs to find some punishment that will be a deterrent.

I hear you but spygate was 7 years ago and ball inflation is not anywhere in the same ball park in terms of an offense. I do think they get fined, probably heavily but not sure much is warranted beyond that. They have not broken any rules since 2007 and this one is not major according to the NFLs own rule book. I guess we will see. I agree it is a poor look again and no Pats fan is happy about it. I am quite angry actually and want answers from Bill and Brady but we do need the rest of the investigation to come out. It is very difficult to prove tampering.

[jvan1973]

Bob Kravitz is the happiest person on earth. He finally broke a story that got picked up worldwide

[amfootball]

Justifying it as a "lesser cheat", is justifying the situation. And yes people are reacting because a multiple offender of cheating, is accused of cheating. Find me anywhere, that isn't the case. It's not a Pats thing. It's a people hate cheaters thing.

People don't hate cheaters just cheaters that win a lot. That is what is at play here. No one would care if this was the Jags ...

[Susie Q]

He may but this is no way in the same ball park as bountygate .... or spygate for that matter.

Yes but it's a " second offense "  and that should be taken into consideration.   I would think that should have some baring on the punishment that is handed down by the  NFL  seeing that the SB  is their money maker with all the commercials that cost mega bucks to run and sponsor's may be waiting to see how this is handled. Could get real interesting to say the least.

[corgi]

Patriots fan photographed near Foxborough this AM.

 

[ElMaestro]

Again, I'm not justifying anything...and it sounds like most responding are, in fact, agreeing with my assessment that 'because its the Patriots, people are angry'.

 

That isn't me defending the action, I'm simply giving my opinion on the responses to it.

 

As was asked on one of the news programs...is this any different than say, pine tar on a pitchers hand? A hockey stick with a little extra bend? All are against the rules and Im not saying whether or not is the same...but I believe the vitriolic response to THIS one is 100% attributed to the team that is under question...and not the action itself.

 

That's all I was asking, I was just curious.

Not you, not me, not a sportscaster, not a coach, not even a player would be able to make a determination if this would have changed the outcome of the game or not.  It's impossible to accurately determine the advantage in grip with an under inflated ball.  Sure, people, including us, are going to say this or say that, but no one really knows with 100% accuracy.  It's impossible. 

 

Let's say it's 3 and 6 and Brady drops back and dumps a ball to short middle receiver for a first down.  It's raining like all beat hell.  Did the under inflated ball allow or assist him to make that catch and thus get the first down?  Or would he have dropped it and the Pats forced to punt.

 

Let's say Blount gets the hand off and picks up a first down.  Once again, the ball is slick and did the under inflated ball allow or assist him to hold onto that hand off and prevent Colts players from knocking the ball loose?  Or would he have fumbled the ball and the Colts would have taken possession?

 

I really don't know what impact the under inflated balls had on the game.  I do know plenty of players are coming out and saying that an under inflated ball would give you grip advantage, especially in wet and blustery conditions.  

 

And I would feel this way if it were any two teams playing each other.  

[Cynjin]

If this is proven true, and I think the Patriots should get full due process, it is very disturbing. Maybe an apologist could say it didn't make a difference in the Colts game, but how about the Ravens game ? If Flacco was throwing a correctly inflated football, and Brady a deflated one, it calls into question the integrity of the game . If this is proven true after the spygate saga, it would reflect very poorly on the Patriots organization. We don't know about the Ravens game, but is it too much of a stretch if the Colts game reports are found true ?

This is another question that comes up because I doubt the first time they did it, if they did it, was in the game with the Colts.

[jvan1973]

I hear you but spygate was 7 years ago and ball inflation is not anywhere in the same ball park in terms of an offense. I do think they get fined, probably heavily but not sure much is warranted beyond that. They have not broken any rules since 2007 and this one is not major according to the NFLs own rule book. I guess we will see. I agree it is a poor look again and no Pats fan is happy about it. I am quite angry actually and want answers from Bill and Brady but we do need the rest of the investigation to come out. It is very difficult to prove tampering.

it says in the rulebook that breaking the rules is nothing major? Why have a rule book? Not that BB has one anyway

[corgi]

I hear you but spygate was 7 years ago and ball inflation is not anywhere in the same ball park in terms of an offense. I do think they get fined, probably heavily but not sure much is warranted beyond that. They have not broken any rules since 2007 and this one is not major according to the NFLs own rule book. I guess we will see. I agree it is a poor look again and no Pats fan is happy about it. I am quite angry actually and want answers from Bill and Brady but we do need the rest of the investigation to come out. It is very difficult to prove tampering.

They have not been caught breaking any rules since 2007.

[jvan1973]

People don't hate cheaters just cheaters that win a lot. That is what is at play here. No one would care if this was the Jags ...

No, most people just hate cheaters in general

[amfootball]

Yes but it's a " second offense "  and that should be taken into consideration.   I would think that should have some baring on the punishment that is handed down by the  NFL  seeing that the SB  is their money maker with all the commercials that cost mega bucks to run and sponsor's may be waiting to see how this is handled. Could get real interesting to say the least.

I think it will be Susie IF they can prove tampering.

[Dustin]

Already getting the "everybody did it!" excuse from Deflaitriot fans. 

[cmgww]

Smh

[amfootball]

They have not been caught breaking any rules since 2007.

Right.

[Cynjin]

I hear you but spygate was 7 years ago and ball inflation is not anywhere in the same ball park in terms of an offense. I do think they get fined, probably heavily but not sure much is warranted beyond that. They have not broken any rules since 2007 and this one is not major according to the NFLs own rule book. I guess we will see. I agree it is a poor look again and no Pats fan is happy about it. I am quite angry actually and want answers from Bill and Brady but we do need the rest of the investigation to come out. It is very difficult to prove tampering.

Yes we will see. I would like to hear answers from both Bill and Tom too, but I don't expect it. It has to be frustrating for most Pats fans to keep hearing about things like this.