What off season moves do we need to make to compete with pats?

[K-148]

OL: cut Cherilus, Thomas. Re-sign Reitz. Sign Iupati. Draft 1st round RT.

QB: re-sign Hasselbeck.

WR: do not re-sign Wayne, Hicks. Sign someone like Brandon Tate. Draft 2nd round WR.

RB: cut Richardson, Ballard. Re-sign Bradshaw. Draft 3rd round RB.

DL: re-sign Redding.

ILB: do not re-sign Freeman. Sign Brandon Spikes. Draft 4th round ILB.

OLB: re-sign Studebaker. Draft 6th round OLB.

CB: re-sign Butler, Gordy. Draft 5th round CB.

S: cut Landry. Re-sign Adams, Brown, Howell, Anderson. Draft 6th round S.

K: draft 7th round K.

Tender Shipley.

Clean the cap for 2016: Luck, Hilton, Allen, Fleener, Castonzo.

[wig]

You really don't think we have talent?  We could use more and not all of Pagano's moves have worked out, but he's made some great acquisitions

 

Not to mention that everyone on the roster is new.  It doesn't happen overnight.  Who played this year that was left over from the old regime?  Costanzo . . .  Anyone else?

[Buck Showalter]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'm not interested in making moves to stop the Pats. Keep building the roster, add talent at every position, scout hard, draft well, improve some schemes, and keep getting better. You don't build your team with the goal of beating one team. 

exactly look where that has gotten the Jags & Tenn...

[Superman]

Not to mention that everyone on the roster is new.  It doesn't happen overnight.  Who played this year that was left over from the old regime?  Costanzo . . .  Anyone else?

 

Reitz. McAfee and Vinatieri, of course, but they don't really count.

 

I think that's it. This is a completely new team. There are going to be some rough spots. 

[dgambill]

How about IF we had that defense -- which was already on its way before Rex got there -- things would be different...

 

Like you said, ifs and buts. The reality is that Rex Ryan is 1-5 in his last six against the Pats, and hasn't sniffed the playoffs in four years. A loss is a loss. Yes, they can hang tough with the Pats, moreso than the Colts, but you don't build your team to beat another team. You build your team to be as complete as it can be. That's how you can compete in your division, it's how you make the playoffs in consecutive years, etc. We'll play the Pats once a year during the regular season. We still have 15 other games to worry about.

I agree...but lets be honest...if you can beat the Pats there isn't a more complete team in football...you probably could beat anyone lol. Its not so much that we need to build a team to compete against them as we need a "GAMEPLAN" to compete with them...and Rex has been able to do that. Rex has done a fair amount in drafting for that team and coaching...I mean he has lost the whole secondary and you dont lose a Revis and it not affect you...but give that team a top 20 qb and it would be a different story...we saw how good they could be even with a mediocre playing Mark Sanchez. I agree you don't build your team to stop another...but you can build a gameplan...and our coaches clearly haven't learned that. 0-4 and its getting worse....I think we actually played them better in Lucks rookie year than recently but they didn't have this tough defense and and a healthy Gronk then though so its mute. I don't think Rex was building a team to beat NE necessarily he is just able to identify what they do better and do a better job at stoping it. He just didn't have a qb that could get the job done and if they could have got a better one than Geno I'm sure Rex would have. I agree with you though....its what doomed the AFC South so many years trying to build a team to beat Peyton...or Luck...because really it isn't so much as the personale as it is identifying a strategy that works and executing it.

 

As for building the "monster" that we claim to be doing...I don't see it. We still struggle to run the ball and stop it consistantly. We have proven we can score points with Lucks talents and our receivers and we have shown that our secondary more often than not can lineup across from anyone and shut them down for the most part...but that isn't a monster...the trenches and our lbs is what we were suppose to be building strong and we just aren't doing it. If I was giving us a grade for keeping to our "gameplan" or "strategy" of our rebuild I would give us a D. Luckily we have hit some homers in a few other areas that makes this team still an exceptional team from time to time. If we built what we were claiming we were building...we would have a team to beat NE....and likely anyone else on most Sundays. Hopefully we will realize that vision someday soon. 

[Dudley Smith]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'm not interested in making moves to stop the Pats. Keep building the roster, add talent at every position, scout hard, draft well, improve some schemes, and keep getting better. You don't build your team with the goal of beating one team. 

 

Not to mention that I would think that NE's Super Bowl window is probably closing here within the next couple of seasons with Brady nearing retirement. The Colts are only scratching the surface and their window looks to be open within two years and will remain open for probably the following ten. I actually think Grigson has done a pretty good job so far. The Richardson trade is really about the only strike against him, but I like that he willing to take a risk.

[achcolts]

O line and D line improvements, linebacker or two.  Mark my words, nothing else needs to be changed.  The game starts and ends at the trenches.  It is so evident that in all 4 games it is not the running game that destroys us, its really their oline.  they are able to do anything they want on offense because their oline just destroys our front.

[Superman]

I agree...but lets be honest...if you can beat the Pats there isn't a more complete team in football...you probably could beat anyone lol. Its not so much that we need to build a team to compete against them as we need a "GAMEPLAN" to compete with them...and Rex has been able to do that. Rex has done a fair amount in drafting for that team and coaching...I mean he has lost the whole secondary and you dont lose a Revis and it not affect you...but give that team a top 20 qb and it would be a different story...we saw how good they could be even with a mediocre playing Mark Sanchez. I agree you don't build your team to stop another...but you can build a gameplan...and our coaches clearly haven't learned that. 0-4 and its getting worse....I think we actually played them better in Lucks rookie year than recently but they didn't have this tough defense and and a healthy Gronk then though so its mute. I don't think Rex was building a team to beat NE necessarily he is just able to identify what they do better and do a better job at stoping it. He just didn't have a qb that could get the job done and if they could have got a better one than Geno I'm sure Rex would have. I agree with you though....its what doomed the AFC South so many years trying to build a team to beat Peyton...or Luck...because really it isn't so much as the personale as it is identifying a strategy that works and executing it.

 

So that pretty much means coach better and play better. I agree with that. 

 

And you're right, the things you need to do well to beat the Pats will apply to all good teams. But it's not about the Pats. Just get better, and everything else will take care of itself.

[dgambill]

So that pretty much means coach better and play better. I agree with that. 

 

And you're right, the things you need to do well to beat the Pats will apply to all good teams. But it's not about the Pats. Just get better, and everything else will take care of itself.

Yes...I edited my previous post to add kinda what your saying. I just think we are falling short in executing the plan of what we set out in Paganos original news conference when accepting the job. We have a lot of things right on this team...but to beat teams like NE and be the top of the pile at the end of the year we haven't addressed those areas properly...or coached to that level yet. Honestly if we was able to stop the run like Baltimore showed our secondary is good enough to get off the field against NE. And if we could consistantly run the ball Luck and our receivers/tes are good enough to beat coverage if we get favorable down and distances. Play better definately...but we still need to improve those areas to beat NE...or whoever else is in our way to a SB next year.

[Restored]

How about IF we had that defense -- which was already on its way before Rex got there -- things would be different...

 

Like you said, ifs and buts. The reality is that Rex Ryan is 1-5 in his last six against the Pats, and hasn't sniffed the playoffs in four years. A loss is a loss. Yes, they can hang tough with the Pats, moreso than the Colts, but you don't build your team to beat another team. You build your team to be as complete as it can be. That's how you can compete in your division, it's how you make the playoffs in consecutive years, etc. We'll play the Pats once a year during the regular season. We still have 15 other games to worry about.

 

 

I usually agree with you Superman but this time I have to disagree. Every other team in the Colts division builds to beat them. The Colts are a step beyond that in now trying to build themselves to beat teams (or in this case, one team) that stop them in the playoffs.

 

Even though Rex Ryan has lost a lot of times to New England, I think it is fair to say if he had Indy's offense during those games, he would have won a lot more of those games.

 

It's really simple right now. The Colts simply aren't competing well when they play the Patriots. Something just goes out the window when they play them. I'm lead to believe its a combination of talent and coaching staff not preparing players well. The amount of times I saw players in the Colts secondary completed lost on who to cover was insane. On the other hand, seeing the Colts defensive line get absolutely crushed shows me the lack of talent in the middle. It's two parts.

[Superman]

I usually agree with you Superman but this time I have to disagree. Every other team in the Colts division builds to beat them. The Colts are a step beyond that in now trying to build themselves to beat teams (or in this case, one team) that stop them in the playoffs.

 

And they can't.

 

These Colts are 16-2 in the division, and one of those was a fluke loss to the Jags. Even going back to the Manning years, back when everyone said "the Texans drafted Mario Williams because they know you have to rush the passer to beat the Colts," the Colts still owned the division. I think Mario Williams had a total of two wins against the Colts.

 

The Texans have a great defensive front, with the most dominant defensive player the league has seen in decades. The Colts have a bad offensive line. And we've beat them five times in a row.

 

You don't build your roster to beat one team. It doesn't work.

 

Even though Rex Ryan has lost a lot of times to New England, I think it is fair to say if he had Indy's offense during those games, he would have won a lot more of those games.

 

 

Like I said earlier, this "IF" game works both ways. End of the day, Rex Ryan's Jets were vastly inferior to the Pats. So IF they were building to beat the Pats (which I don't think was their focus, but whatever), they failed. Again, it doesn't work that way.

 

It's really simple right now. The Colts simply aren't competing well when they play the Patriots. Something just goes out the window when they play them. I'm lead to believe its a combination of talent and coaching staff not preparing players well. The amount of times I saw players in the Colts secondary completed lost on who to cover was insane. On the other hand, seeing the Colts defensive line get absolutely crushed shows me the lack of talent in the middle. It's two parts.

 

 

So again, get better, coach better, play better. Absolutely. But that's not about doing specific things with the objective of beating the Pats. Just get better however you can. The results will come.

[21isSuperman]

Not to mention that everyone on the roster is new.  It doesn't happen overnight.  Who played this year that was left over from the old regime?  Costanzo . . .  Anyone else?

Mathis, but he didn't play.  Vinny, McAfee, and Wayne, in addition to Castonzo

[wig]

Reitz. McAfee and Vinatieri, of course, but they don't really count.

 

I think that's it. This is a completely new team. There are going to be some rough spots. 

 

Ah.  Yeah, forgot special teams since I was mentally going through the starting offense and defense.

 

My point is this Fire Grigson stuff is ignorant.  He's had a couple misses like everyone else, but if he had the same batting average for the next ten years, he'll have built a very, very good team.

[-JJ-]

Generally you build for your division first. Although the Pats team is certainly worth a build but it took a few years while remaining completive.

 

I think our LBs are all 1st round.  Basically- big strong smart LBs.   Same with D line.

A QB. and good coaching staff.

 

Our Oline is more coached up than talent but either way you have to win in the trenches.

 

Of course a stong backfield  (CB/safety) is a plus but you need the line and LBs first.

 

IMO

[krunk]

I definitely think we need to add more dominant players along the front 7. 

I think Redding has served his purpose here, and is now replaceable. Also

there are other spots on the DL that need more dominant players.  We'll

need another pass rusher in the draft, plus bringing in more competition

at the linebacker spots.  Safeties need upgrading as well.

[BOTT]

I hate when people try to take credit away from a GM when he makes a good move.  It was NOT a slam dunk to take Luck there was this guy named RG3 in the draft that several people thought the Colts should have drafted over Luck.  So Grigson should get credit for taking Luck. 

 

However, if you take Luck out of the draft class that that draft class was still stacked, HIlton, Fleener, Allen, and Ballard before he got hurt let the Colts rebuild their offense in one off-season. 

 

Add into that the signing of Redding and re-signing of Reggie Wayne and Mathis and the trade for Davis his first year as GM was a homerun.

 

His second year was a step backward.  The draft was a miss for the most part.  Other than Gosder, Bradshaw, and Toler his free agent signings were a miss too. 

 

This year he maximized his limited draft picks with Mewhort, Newsome and Moncrief all becoming significant starters by the end of the season and Jackson helping on special teams.  The only one we don't know about is the tackle who has been on IR all year.  His free agent signings were a bit of a mixed bag.  The guys he re-signed were all good re-signings and sometimes keeping your own is just as important as who you go get.  Remember on the day of free agency we all thought Davis was gone and out of no where Grigson got a deal done.  Jones and Jackson didn't deliver tonight but have helped improve our run defense over the course of the season and then bringing Adams in out of no where turned out to be a great move. 

 

All and all Grigson has done a good job and it shows with the Colts going from 2-14 to the AFCCG in three short years.  Remember when Grigson was hired people were saying it would be realistic to expect the Colts to be back in the playoff picture in three years.  Instead he has built a team that has been to the playoffs all three years he's been GM and has them way ahead of schedule of where they are supposed to be.

Lol...it was a slam dunk to select Luck. Just because a handful of people out of hundreds leaned toward RG3 doesn't make it any less so. And guess what, if Grigson had told Irsay he preferred RG3 he wouldn't have been hired.

[Two_pound]

We could trade the whole team and coaches to the Jets for their team and coaches(except we would have get Ryan from Buffalo) because that great Jet team only lost 2 times to the pats by a total of 5 points, beat the steelers something we couldn't do. Who cares if they lost most all of their other games and finished 4-12. The Jets got it done where it counted!! No thanks people, I'll take our very talented team any day. 29 playoff games in the past 20 seasons, not very many teams have exceded that, so the Colts must be doing something right,regardless of what the whiners say.

[BOTT]

I hate when people try to take credit away from a GM when he makes a good move.  It was NOT a slam dunk to take Luck there was this guy named RG3 in the draft that several people thought the Colts should have drafted over Luck.  So Grigson should get credit for taking Luck. 

 

However, if you take Luck out of the draft class that that draft class was still stacked, HIlton, Fleener, Allen, and Ballard before he got hurt let the Colts rebuild their offense in one off-season. 

 

Add into that the signing of Redding and re-signing of Reggie Wayne and Mathis and the trade for Davis his first year as GM was a homerun.

 

His second year was a step backward.  The draft was a miss for the most part.  Other than Gosder, Bradshaw, and Toler his free agent signings were a miss too. 

 

This year he maximized his limited draft picks with Mewhort, Newsome and Moncrief all becoming significant starters by the end of the season and Jackson helping on special teams.  The only one we don't know about is the tackle who has been on IR all year.  His free agent signings were a bit of a mixed bag.  The guys he re-signed were all good re-signings and sometimes keeping your own is just as important as who you go get.  Remember on the day of free agency we all thought Davis was gone and out of no where Grigson got a deal done.  Jones and Jackson didn't deliver tonight but have helped improve our run defense over the course of the season and then bringing Adams in out of no where turned out to be a great move. 

 

All and all Grigson has done a good job and it shows with the Colts going from 2-14 to the AFCCG in three short years.  Remember when Grigson was hired people were saying it would be realistic to expect the Colts to be back in the playoff picture in three years.  Instead he has built a team that has been to the playoffs all three years he's been GM and has them way ahead of schedule of where they are supposed to be.

Lol...it was a slam dunk to select Luck. Just because a handful of people out of hundreds leaned toward RG3 doesn't make it any less so. And guess what, if Grigson had told Irsay he preferred RG3 he wouldn't have been hired.

There's really nothing we can do. As long as the Patriots have Brady and BB they're impossible to beat. We have to hope that the Ravens or Steerlers can knock them out of the playoffs. We held Gronk to 28 yards and they still won by 38, just a bad matchup for the Colts and one offseason won't change it.

The problem just isn't the Patriots. The Colts have been crushed by a number of teams of the last season and a half. Hell, the Cowboys loss just happened 3 weeks prior to getting beat down by the Pats.

[NewEra]

Build from the inside out. Need quality o and d lines.

Exactly to the t what u was going to put. Ray Lewis disappeared when he didn't have a line to keep him clean. I don't care what rb you bring in. If there's no hole he's not gaining crap. We need to start with the line in both sides of the ball.

Ponder this...how many different O line changes did we have? We got benched for who? Even though (insert name here) was playing better. Play the best players to help you win, period...

[BOTT]

Build from the inside out. Need quality o and d lines.

Keep it simple stupid.

[Superman]

Lol...it was a slam dunk to select Luck. Just because a handful of people out of hundreds leaned toward RG3 doesn't make it any less so. And guess what, if Grigson had told Irsay he preferred RG3 he wouldn't have been hired.

The problem just isn't the Patriots. The Colts have been crushed by a number of teams of the last season and a half. Hell, the Cowboys loss just happened 3 weeks prior to getting beat down by the Pats.

 

The Cowboys loss wasn't indicative of anything. We stopped their primary threat with half a gameplan. Just a sloppy game by an unfocused team.

 

But overall, this team has done a good job of beating good teams. It's only in 2014 that it was actually a problem. We beat the Packers and Texans in 2012, beat every good team in 2013, aside from the Pats. Consistency has been the issue.

[BOTT]

The Cowboys loss wasn't indicative of anything. We stopped their primary threat with half a gameplan. Just a sloppy game by an unfocused team.

 

But overall, this team has done a good job of beating good teams. It's only in 2014 that it was actually a problem. We beat the Packers and Texans in 2012, beat every good team in 2013, aside from the Pats. Consistency has been the issue.

The cowboys were more proof that the colts can't stop a good QB with a balanced offense. I get that the colts beat some good teams in early last year, but in the 2nd half of the season, and this year, it has been a different story. I understand beating elite teams is difficult, but the colts have been getting hammered.

[Two_pound]

Agree 100%. There really isn't much at all wrong with this team. If someone can tell me why we play so badly sometime, I'm listening.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Need a new equipment manager who will not pump the footballs up all the way.

[Mr.Debonair]

Besides drafting and FA. Coaching should upgraded. Manusky is an average D-Coordinator who lacks creativity, he should be let go. I would like a guy like Wade Phillips to be given a shot. Much like Norv Turner, Wade isn't a good HC but is a very good D-coordinator.

O-Line needs a coaching change as well. I know the talent isn't great but the technique and play recognition isn't very good by the O-Line.

Pep I will give more time. He's isn't seasoned in the NFL and it showed at times. He lacked the ability to adjust to what was being taken away. Also lacked creativity in finding ways to get our playmakers in space.

[Superman]

The cowboys were more proof that the colts can't stop a good QB with a balanced offense. I get that the colts beat some good teams in early last year, but in the 2nd half of the season, and this year, it has been a different story. I understand beating elite teams is difficult, but the colts have been getting hammered.

 

It wasn't different in the second half of the season. We lost Reggie, and the offense ground to a halt for a month and a half. The only even average team we lost to in 2013 was the Bengals. The losses to the Cardinals and Rams was, IMO, evidence of inconsistency. And we really didn't lose to any second rung teams in 2014, unless you want to count the Eagles.

 

As for the Cowboys game, I just don't think the team went into that game trying to win. Right, wrong or indifferent, I think guys were happy about clinching the division, and I think the coaching staff wanted to start making some adjustments to protect the QB, which is why we ran all those screen plays and checkdowns. Even on defense, playing Toler on the right side a few plays seemed experimental. 

[Superman]

Pep I will give more time. He's isn't seasoned in the NFL and it showed at times. He lacked the ability to adjust to what was being taken away. Also lacked creativity in finding ways to get our playmakers in space.

 

I don't understand this. The Colts led the league in big plays.

[BOTT]

It wasn't different in the second half of the season. We lost Reggie, and the offense ground to a halt for a month and a half. The only even average team we lost to in 2013 was the Bengals. The losses to the Cardinals and Rams was, IMO, evidence of inconsistency. And we really didn't lose to any second rung teams in 2014, unless you want to count the Eagles.

 

As for the Cowboys game, I just don't think the team went into that game trying to win. Right, wrong or indifferent, I think guys were happy about clinching the division, and I think the coaching staff wanted to start making some adjustments to protect the QB, which is why we ran all those screen plays and checkdowns. Even on defense, playing Toler on the right side a few plays seemed experimental.

Sure, the colts lost Reggie, but the games against the rams, cards, and bengals were over early (if I remember correctly)......just dominated from the get go. I can't honestly say Reggie would have made even the slightest difference. Even in the playoffs they were blown out in 7 of 8 quarters. For me, this team gets dominated way to often.

[evilleseniorfan]

Hire Peyton as offensive coordinator!!!

[Superman]

Sure, the colts lost Reggie, but the games against the rams, cards, and bengals were over early (if I remember correctly)......just dominated from the get go. I can't honestly say Reggie would have made even the slightest difference. Even in the playoffs they were blown out in 7 of 8 quarters. For me, this team gets dominated way to often.

 

Rams and Cards weren't good teams last year. So I didn't include them.

 

All I'm saying is that I don't think what happened in 2013 carried over to 2014. I think the 2013 team was better against good teams, but inconsistent against average to below average teams, and the 2014 routinely took care of business against the average teams, but didn't have that extra gear against good teams. It's a completely different issue, from where I'm sitting.

 

No question the team has to get better against top competition. I'm just saying, like I said earlier, let's not be too quick to declare something is a trend.

[Dustin]

Rams and Cards weren't good teams last year. So I didn't include them.

 

All I'm saying is that I don't think what happened in 2013 carried over to 2014. I think the 2013 team was better against good teams, but inconsistent against average to below average teams, and the 2014 routinely took care of business against the average teams, but didn't have that extra gear against good teams. It's a completely different issue, from where I'm sitting.

 

No question the team has to get better against top competition. I'm just saying, like I said earlier, let's not be too quick to declare something is a trend.

 

Cards were 10-6 in the best division in the NFL. 

[Superman]

Cards were 10-6 in the best division in the NFL. 

 

Okay. I guess I just discount them because they didn't make the playoffs. They deserve more credit than that.