What off season moves do we need to make to compete with pats?

[peytonmanning18]

Hire Ron Meeks

Ha

[coltsfanatic24]

There's really nothing we can do. As long as the Patriots have Brady and BB they're impossible to beat. We have to hope that the Ravens or Steerlers can knock them out of the playoffs. We held Gronk to 28 yards and they still won by 38, just a bad matchup for the Colts and one offseason won't change it.

[Narcosys]

Safeties who can actually cover. Linebackers who can stop the run. D Lineman who can get pressure.

[GoColts8818]

Grigson's acquisitions include:

Vontae

Hilton

Luck (but 99.99999% of the world would have taken Luck, so I don't really give him that much credit for this one)

Fleener

Allen

Newsome (unknown, but has showed a lot of potential)

Redding has been really solid during his time here

I remember people being really hyped when we signed RJF

Art Jones has been solid when healthy

Adams was really good considering we got him so late and people were writing him off

Mewhort

Freeman

 

He has a lot of work to do and he hasn't made every perfect decision (see: Trent, Werner), but I think he's done a pretty solid job

I hate when people try to take credit away from a GM when he makes a good move.  It was NOT a slam dunk to take Luck there was this guy named RG3 in the draft that several people thought the Colts should have drafted over Luck.  So Grigson should get credit for taking Luck. 

 

However, if you take Luck out of the draft class that that draft class was still stacked, HIlton, Fleener, Allen, and Ballard before he got hurt let the Colts rebuild their offense in one off-season. 

 

Add into that the signing of Redding and re-signing of Reggie Wayne and Mathis and the trade for Davis his first year as GM was a homerun.

 

His second year was a step backward.  The draft was a miss for the most part.  Other than Gosder, Bradshaw, and Toler his free agent signings were a miss too. 

 

This year he maximized his limited draft picks with Mewhort, Newsome and Moncrief all becoming significant starters by the end of the season and Jackson helping on special teams.  The only one we don't know about is the tackle who has been on IR all year.  His free agent signings were a bit of a mixed bag.  The guys he re-signed were all good re-signings and sometimes keeping your own is just as important as who you go get.  Remember on the day of free agency we all thought Davis was gone and out of no where Grigson got a deal done.  Jones and Jackson didn't deliver tonight but have helped improve our run defense over the course of the season and then bringing Adams in out of no where turned out to be a great move. 

 

All and all Grigson has done a good job and it shows with the Colts going from 2-14 to the AFCCG in three short years.  Remember when Grigson was hired people were saying it would be realistic to expect the Colts to be back in the playoff picture in three years.  Instead he has built a team that has been to the playoffs all three years he's been GM and has them way ahead of schedule of where they are supposed to be. 

[The Old Crow]

You guys have to build up your offensive and defensive lines with size, speed , and a ton of depth. That is how you punch Belichick in the face, and get Brady complaining. The Ravens had those elements in place, but had catastrophic secondary injuries that ultimately cost them. You guys have work to do on both sides of the ball to beat Bellichick. You also need nasty guys who scare the Patriots like Bernard Pollard and Anquan Boldin, who the Ravens foolishly let go, who punish the Patriots, and aren't intimidated by them.

Irsay and Grigson laid out the right plan on getting bigger and more physical on both the offensive and defensive lines, but can they draft it or acquire it through free agency ? That is the question.

[Detectacon]

We need new cameras and ball deflators!!!!!.....I kid, I kid.

 

I think we need for our coaches to open their eyes. I am not saying to fire them. I am saying that they have flashes of genius and the capability to put a good game plan together/adjust when needed. The problem is that they don't stick to what works. They try to force things like the run. We are at our best with the ball in Luck's hands and the coaches won't accept it.

 

Oh, and a better O Line. Definitely a better O Line. 

[Myles]

Size on the D line.   Every year it is the same.    You can run against the Colts.   Manning used to score enough that teams would abandon the run.    Luck has been doing that somewhat this year too.  

[SilentHill]

New Defensive Coordinator.

[JColts72]

• Coming up with the right game play and make adjustments in order to not trounced again by any team.

[JColts72]

Size on the D line.   Every year it is the same.    You can run against the Colts.   Manning used to score enough that teams would abandon the run.    Luck has been doing that somewhat this year too.  

Have we not been asking for this since 1998.

[VegasColt]

Hire Dick LeBeau!

[coach kline]

_{We need an O-line and pass rushers.}

[Myles]

Have we not been asking for this since 1998.

Yep.   We have to keep asking.   

[ukcolt12]

In no particular order..

lights out running back 

offensive line

NT

ILB

Safety

mean streak

[lennymoore24]

Such a stupid strawman. How about when you have two years in a row with the most cap space in the league you put together a semi-quality defense? A semi-competent oline? WRs who can get seperation? 

 

Karlos Dansby got the same contract D'Qwell Jackson did. Toler got paid the same year Brent Grimes, Sean Smith, Aqib Talib, and DRC were free agents. 

 

I think what is stupid is your comments.  My point is that in 3 years, it is hard to replace 48 of 53 players and have them all solid, if not good.  Sure, mistakes have been made.  Too much money has been thrown at a front 7 that can't stop a nosebleed.  But you also have to be realistic.  To beat the Patriots, you have to be able to run the ball and put heat on them.

[Superman]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'm not interested in making moves to stop the Pats. Keep building the roster, add talent at every position, scout hard, draft well, improve some schemes, and keep getting better. You don't build your team with the goal of beating one team. 

[lennymoore24]

Ok, so playing GM a bit.  In the draft, if a good one is available in round 1 or 2, I would take a RB.  We have to be able to pound the ball against NE.  GB doesn't have a great OLine.  Neither does NE.  But they run when they need to. I like Boom but I don't know that he is going to be that type of back.  Secondly, we need another pass rusher right now.  If we are going to make a free agent splash, Orakpo would be good I think.  And then through the draft, I hope we can get some big, mobile inside LBs and a safety to develop.

[jvan1973]

Build from the inside out. Need quality o and d lines.

[jvan1973]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'm not interested in making moves to stop the Pats. Keep building the roster, add talent at every position, scout hard, draft well, improve some schemes, and keep getting better. You don't build your team with the goal of beating one team.

It worked so good for rex and the jets

[Superman]

Ok, so playing GM a bit.  In the draft, if a good one is available in round 1 or 2, I would take a RB.  We have to be able to pound the ball against NE.  GB doesn't have a great OLine.  Neither does NE.  But they run when they need to. I like Boom but I don't know that he is going to be that type of back.  Secondly, we need another pass rusher right now.  If we are going to make a free agent splash, Orakpo would be good I think.  And then through the draft, I hope we can get some big, mobile inside LBs and a safety to develop.

 

I hope they don't let you anywhere near the draft room. There's no reason to draft a back in the first two days of the draft.

[Superman]

It worked so good for rex and the jets

 

Yeah, six years, 4-9 against the Pats. Kiss those rings, Rex.

[Coffeedrinker]

tired of them slaughtering us.

You don't make changes to compete with one team.

[Myles]

Ok, so playing GM a bit.  In the draft, if a good one is available in round 1 or 2, I would take a RB.  We have to be able to pound the ball against NE.  GB doesn't have a great OLine.  Neither does NE.  But they run when they need to. I like Boom but I don't know that he is going to be that type of back.  Secondly, we need another pass rusher right now.  If we are going to make a free agent splash, Orakpo would be good I think.  And then through the draft, I hope we can get some big, mobile inside LBs and a safety to develop.

No way would I use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a RB.   That is the easiest position to find someone out of nowhere.   Can't find big defensive linemen everywhere.  

[throwing BBZ]

We need an Oline badly that's all. We need time to get the ball down field.

 

 The Opposite is of course true. We need a short passing game.

 Grigs killed us by drafting Mewhort who will never be a good run blocker. Cherilus, a mistake, is very mediocre too. Thornton shows no sign to be a good run blocker and is not a good pass blocker.

 AC was a good run blocker until these Pittsburgh O-Line coaches got here.

 So, do not let Irsay or Grigson have ANYTHING to do with selecting o-lineman ot their Coach, fire our o-line coach.

[Luck-Fan12]

Such a stupid strawman. How about when you have two years in a row with the most cap space in the league you put together a semi-quality defense? A semi-competent oline? WRs who can get seperation?

Karlos Dansby got the same contract D'Qwell Jackson did. Toler got paid the same year Brent Grimes, Sean Smith, Aqib Talib, and DRC were free agents.

so true we never used cap space like we should have

[Coffeedrinker]

To me, it seems kind of obvious what changes need to be made.  All season long the middle of the D was exploited in both the passing game and running game.  I like Chapman, Kerr and Hughes but they need experience.  So they need to address the ILB position and the safety position.  I've been impressed with Adams all season but he was outplayed by Landry yesterday.  Freeman had two good against Cincy and Denver but really struggled against the Pats, his problem is definitely no athleticism, I think it's more mental, he just doesn't seem to be able to process things fast enough to deal with an offense that gives you as many different looks as the Pats did.  DQ is solid but is a bot long in the tooth.  He was a good stop gap for this year but should not be counted on moving forward.

 

On offense, I think the Colts are pretty much set.  Get a RB that can be relied upon to carry the ball 15-20 times a game, get a OC that will commit to running the ball consistently and get an oline coach in there that design some scheme to get lineman in better position on run blocking.

[a06cc]

The Opposite is of course true. We need a short passing game.

Grigs killed us by drafting Mewhort who will never be a good run blocker. Cherilus, a mistake, is very mediocre too. Thornton shows no sign to be a good run blocker and is not a good pass blocker.

AC was a good run blocker until these Pittsburgh O-Line coaches got here.

So, do not let Irsay or Grigson have ANYTHING to do with selecting o-lineman ot their Coach, fire our o-line coach.

Your right about your evaluation in some sense. Look up what type of scheme our offensive line would fit in. 4 out of 5 are for a zone blocking scheme. Well we're suppose to be a power blocking team. That's why I'm saying we need an Oline. Have to have guys that fit your scheme. Short passes aren't going help either. I can see what your saying. Play it safe and take what the defense gives you. But in a passing league you have to take your shots.

[NewColtsFan]

Such a stupid strawman. How about when you have two years in a row with the most cap space in the league you put together a semi-quality defense? A semi-competent oline? WRs who can get seperation? 

 

Karlos Dansby got the same contract D'Qwell Jackson did. Toler got paid the same year Brent Grimes, Sean Smith, Aqib Talib, and DRC were free agents. 

 

1.    I don't recall the Colts having the most cap space last year.    The year before, yes.   But not last year.   Grigson was very public about not planning on spending to the level we did in '14.

 

2.   The OL,  Right or wrong,  Grigson spent big money on Cherilous,  and he has spent a 2/3/4 on the OL.   And he brought in Thomas, who has been hurt two years in a row.    Thornton was hurt most of this year and Holmes....   well,  has not developed the way anyone expected.   Clearly we're hoping he's figured it out now.    The point is,  Grigson has invested heavily in trying to fix the OL.   But it hasn't worked out the way we wanted.   We have to hope the guys we have get better,  and we likely have to keep investing and bring in more higher quality players.

 

3.   Why are you bringing up Talib and DRC?    Those guys got huge contracts, did they not?

 

4.   As for WR,  it was not unreasonable to expect a higher level of performance from both Nicks and Wayne. Things look obvious in hindsight...

 

 

We are in year 3 of a near complete rebuild.   Expecting that it's going to be done without problems by this point is simply not realistic.

[#12]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. I'm not interested in making moves to stop the Pats. Keep building the roster, add talent at every position, scout hard, draft well, improve some schemes, and keep getting better. You don't build your team with the goal of beating one team. 

 

They did it with us - trading for Moss, Welker etc.  Belichick admitted so.

 

Now, in the past few years, after watching Seattle and SF, they seem to be somewhat following in that direction with the Browner acquisition, big RBs, etc. 

 

That said, we're not in a position to do such a thing.  A few moves aren't going to transform this team or push us past the Pats.

[NewColtsFan]

In order to get better we have to....

 

1.   Get much better on both the o-line and the d-line.    When the Colts lose we are losing the Battle of the Line of Scrimmage.   It's really hard to win when you're losing that battle.

 

2.   We need to get more skilled at the skill positions.    RB,  WR,   S,   CB. 

 

3.    We need to get tougher... 

 

4.    We need to address the issue of our healthy training program.    For three straight years since Grigson came in (perhaps longer if it was this way before he arrived)   the Colts have been among the league leaders in games lost due to injury.    I think this can be address and made better.    Simply saying "this is football,  guys get hurt" doesn't cut it anymore.     Stanford has been among the nations leading schools in FEWEST games lost for roughly 6-7 years in a row.    When the streak is that long,  it's no longer a coincidence.    There's a different and better way to approach our training/conditioning.

[Superman]

They did it with us - trading for Moss, Welker etc.  Belichick admitted so.

 

Now, in the past few years, after watching Seattle and SF, they seem to be somewhat following in that direction with the Browner acquisition, big RBs, etc. 

 

That said, we're not in a position to do such a thing.  A few moves aren't going to transform this team or push us past the Pats.

 

The Pats didn't get Moss and Welker to beat us. They got those guys to build a more complete team. They had no WRs in 2006. And their moves lately aren't emulating anyone. It's again an attempt by them to shore up their weaknesses; they've been weak at corner for several years now. 

 

By the way, emulating a team is completely different from trying to build your roster to beat a team. I'm fine with emulating the Pats and whoever else, to an extent. But it's also important to remember that this league changes every year. Probably more than that.

[Dustin]

2.   The OL,  Right or wrong,  Grigson spent big money on Cherilous,  and he has spent a 2/3/4 on the OL.   And he brought in Thomas, who has been hurt two years in a row.    Thornton was hurt most of this year and Holmes....   well,  has not developed the way anyone expected.   Clearly we're hoping he's figured it out now.    The point is,  Grigson has invested heavily in trying to fix the OL.   But it hasn't worked out the way we wanted.   We have to hope the guys we have get better,  and we likely have to keep investing and bring in more higher quality players.

 

Trying and failing isn't impressive. "Man, he sucks at putting together an oline, but at least he tried"

 

 

3.   Why are you bringing up Talib and DRC?    Those guys got huge contracts, did they not?

 

 

Nope. They got 1 year deals.

[NewColtsFan]

Trying and failing isn't impressive. "Man, he sucks at putting together an oline, but at least he tried"

 

 

 

Nope. They got 1 year deals.

 

 

They got 1 year deals in 2013, and then long term deals in 2014 with other teams.

 

It's quite possible that Grigson didn't want to sign these guys to 1-year deals.    That's what Grimes first got when he signed in 2013.

 

As for OL,  the point is somethings are out of your control.    There's no way to know what will happen to Holmes or Thornton.   Cherilus came with some risk and I don't like his contract,   but Grigson is trying to fix the problem as best he can.

 

You can complain about the roster all you want....  but we're just 3-years into a near complete rebuild and we've been in the playoffs every year and gone further in the playoffs every year.   Complaining about the quality of the roster when the Colts are this successful this soon just makes you a fan...

 

Everything is obvious in hindsight...  

[Dustin]

They got 1 year deals in 2013, and then long term deals in 2014 with other teams.

 

It's quite possible that Grigson didn't want to sign these guys to 1-year deals.    That's what Grimes first got when he signed in 2013.

 

As for OL,  the point is somethings are out of your control.    There's no way to know what will happen to Holmes or Thornton.   Cherilus came with some risk and I don't like his contract,   but Grigson is trying to fix the problem as best he can.

 

You can complain about the roster all you want....  but we're just 3-years into a near complete rebuild and we've been in the playoffs every year and gone further in the playoffs every year.   Complaining about the quality of the roster when the Colts are this successful this soon just makes you a fan...

 

Everything is obvious in hindsight...  

 

The ol Bill Polian defense. Except that Polian's team were better. 

 

It's not like this team is stuck with player from 2011. Every player on defense is a player Ryan Grigson signed or chose to stick. The same for offense. 

 

This "2-14 a few years ago" excuse needs to die. 

[NewColtsFan]

The ol Bill Polian defense. Except that Polian's team were better. 

 

It's not like this team is stuck with player from 2011. Every player on defense is a player Ryan Grigson signed or chose to stick. The same for offense. 

 

This "2-14 a few years ago" excuse needs to die. 

 

 

The reason Polians teams were better is that he had more than 3 years to build.    Polian ran the Colts for roughly 15 years.   He had more time and opportunity to build the team.    Same with Belichick.

 

Think of the number of teams that have been mediocre to bad over the last 15 years or so....   just off the top of my head....   Raiders,  Jags,  Cowboys,  Jets,   Bills,   Tampa,   Cleveland,  Detroit....     There are more....   but those 8 represent 1/4 of the entire NFL.

 

In other words,   building a winning franchise is hard.    Incredibly damn hard.    And, in case you hadn't noticed,   the Colts are winning.   And have been since Grigson got here.   Picked right up when he started and he did so with just an $80m payroll and $40 MIll of dead cap money.     That first year alone should've told you something.

 

The Colts are winning.   And as long as Luck is healthy,  we'll continue to win.   I don't know why you're expecting more at this point of the operation,   but you are....

 

By the way,  while I'm a big Grigson supporter,  I don't agree with every move or decision he's made.   But I try to keep my eye on the prize.   And ultimately,  the team is winning.  

[Dustin]

The reason Polians teams were better is that he had more than 3 years to build.    Polian ran the Colts for roughly 15 years.   He had more time and opportunity to build the team.    Same with Belichick.

 

Think of the number of teams that have been mediocre to bad over the last 15 years or so....   just off the top of my head....   Raiders,  Jags,  Cowboys,  Jets,   Bills,   Tampa,   Cleveland,  Detroit....     There are more....   but those 8 represent 1/4 of the entire NFL.

 

In other words,   building a winning franchise is hard.    Incredibly damn hard.    And, in case you hadn't noticed,   the Colts are winning.   And have been since Grigson got here.   Picked right up when he started and he did so with just an $80m payroll and $40 MIll of dead cap money.     That first year alone should've told you something.

 

The Colts are winning.   And as long as Luck is healthy,  we'll continue to win.   I don't know why you're expecting more at this point of the operation,   but you are....

 

By the way,  while I'm a big Grigson supporter,  I don't agree with every move or decision he's made.   But I try to keep my eye on the prize.   And ultimately,  the team is winning.  

 

You'd have to actively try to lose when you have a franchise QB and play in the AFC South. The difference between us and the Jaguars is that we have a QB. And as long as Luck is here, Grigson can continue to put together a bottom of the rung roster and not have to worry about his job.

 

His 2012 draft class was a homerun and so far that's what he's living off of at this point. 3 years the motto was "run the ball, stop the run; build a tougher team" and in 3 years, that vision is nowhere close to a fruition. And the team even regressed from last year defensively. 

[mintor]

You'd have to actively try to lose when you have a franchise QB and play in the AFC South. The difference between us and the Jaguars is that we have a QB. And as long as Luck is here, Grigson can continue to put together a bottom of the rung roster and not have to worry about his job.

 

His 2012 draft class was a homerun and so far that's what he's living off of at this point. 3 years the motto was "run the ball, stop the run; build a tougher team" and in 3 years, that vision is nowhere close to a fruition. And the team even regressed from last year defensively. 

  you could have a home run in 2012 draft ,lol. 

[dgambill]

Yeah, six years, 4-9 against the Pats. Kiss those rings, Rex.

I know about ifs and buts....but honestly if Rex has AL along with the rest of the team he has and his game planning against NE....that record is probably reversed. Rex can put together a good defensive game plan and honestly most of those games have come down to a single score......much much better than our 0-4 vs NE in the Luck era and losing by like an avg of 30pts.

[dgambill]

Its clear we still need to get better in the trenches and up the middle. OL/DL/LB  Funny thing is our DL is one of if not the biggest in the league yet they get thrown around....how is that possible. Do we need a better strength and conditioning coach...DL coach?? I like the core of our DL but clearly we can get better play from them. LBs to me is a huge issue. Mathis may help us coming back if he can be healthy and give us even half of what he did in 2013. Freeman/Jackson to me just aren't going to improve and leave me unimpressed...they've had big moments...but just flashes. Secondary is a strong point for us. QB/TEs too obviously. Hilton and Moncrief have the makings of good wrs. Nicks and Wayne are probably done here. Wrs to me are the easiest things to find in the draft or free agency. I don't know what good adding a rb will do until we clean up the line so I imagine we look at our OL/DL/LB in the draft. Cant fix everything in one offseason...but we aren't far off. Beating the Pats...well if they return healthy again next year with the same team mostly....uh well we need a hang over from them....or for Brady to get dinged up like Peyton did or something. That team just that dang good...from top to bottom....but we can still compete and win...we just need a better performance across the board and some much much better tackling.

[Superman]

I know about ifs and buts....but honestly if Rex has AL along with the rest of the team he has and his game planning against NE....that record is probably reversed. Rex can put together a good defensive game plan and honestly most of those games have come down to a single score......much much better than our 0-4 vs NE in the Luck era and losing by like an avg of 30pts.

 

How about IF we had that defense -- which was already on its way before Rex got there -- things would be different...

 

Like you said, ifs and buts. The reality is that Rex Ryan is 1-5 in his last six against the Pats, and hasn't sniffed the playoffs in four years. A loss is a loss. Yes, they can hang tough with the Pats, moreso than the Colts, but you don't build your team to beat another team. You build your team to be as complete as it can be. That's how you can compete in your division, it's how you make the playoffs in consecutive years, etc. We'll play the Pats once a year during the regular season. We still have 15 other games to worry about.