Harbaugh, "Flacco is the best Qb in football."

[amfootball]

Tough call at end , but the Ravens were taking chances all game. Wouldn't have been the call I would have made, but you take the chances on the road. That interception came up snake eyes. Another good game, we came up on the short end.

Well Crow, I have been waiting to say this but Brady outplayed Flacco. ;)  I have to admit I never saw the Ravens going up and down the field on our defense like they did in the first half. What a great game plan by Kubiak to go to Daniels and also throw that little side screen to the RB that went for a TD. And the power run game was a beast. You have a keeper in Forsett. 

 

In terms of the last play by Joe, I had not issue with his decision. Browner was out and Ryan was on Torrey with safety help. If he had just threw the ball sooner before the safety got over there then he has a chance as Torrey has Ryan beat to the end zone. Not a good throw either but I didn't mind the decision at that point.

[amfootball]

Its a 53 player game, i am glad you agree to it

 

Just like its not all Brady 

This may be the one instance where an entire half of football was about one player. Brady. The Pats ran the ball four times in the second half- a QB sneak by Brady and three kneel downs by Brady. He dropped back on every play and came back from a 14 point deficit twice and then led the GW drive at the end. Perhaps one of the best halves of football in playoff history.

[MJD42]

This may be the one instance where an entire half of football was about one player. Brady. The Pats ran the ball four times in the second half- a QB sneak by Brady and three kneel downs by Brady. He dropped back on every play and came back from a 14 point deficit twice and then led the GW drive at the end. Perhaps one of the best halves of football in playoff history.

Yes, we had no run game. Our defense was a sieve and yet Brady refused to go down. What a performance by him and the receivers.

[The Old Crow]

Well Crow, I have been waiting to say this but Brady outplayed Flacco. ;) I have to admit I never saw the Ravens going up and down the field on our defense like they did in the first half. What a great game plan by Kubiak to go to Daniels and also throw that little side screen to the RB that went for a TD. And the power run game was a beast. You have a keeper in Forsett.

In terms of the last play by Joe, I had not issue with his decision. Browner was out and Ryan was on Torrey with safety help. If he had just threw the ball sooner before the safety got over there then he has a chance as Torrey has Ryan beat to the end zone. Not a good throw either but I didn't mind the decision at that point.

Both Brady and Flacco played great games. We came up a play short, but he gambled and took a chance. The gambling kept them in the game, but the last one just didn't work out . I would have played it more conservative, but I have no problem going for it all. It worked four times, just not that time.

[amfootball]

Both Brady and Flacco played great games. We came up a play short, but he gambled and took a chance. The gambling kept them in the game, but the last one just didn't work out . I would have played it more conservative, but I have no problem going for it all. It worked four times, just not that time.

What did you think of your defensive game plan? I was surprised that  you did not pressure Brady more. Our Oline was pretty good all night despite losing our center early. Seemed as if Brady was able to recognize the match ups all night and exploit them.

[The Old Crow]

Yes, we had no run game. Our defense was a sieve and yet Brady refused to go down. What a performance by him and the receivers.

He won you the game. Both he and Belichick obviously watched the Chargers game when they lined up to pass , didn't even try to run, and beat us. Obviously , that secondary was the Achilles heal of his team, but they gave a good effort for what they had.

[pgt_rob]

What did you think of your defensive game plan? I was surprised that you did not pressure Brady more. Our Oline was pretty good all night despite losing our center early. Seemed as if Brady was able to recognize the match ups all night and exploit them.

Pressure Brady more? He was pressured a ton from what I saw and hit many times. I would say Flaccos line played better, much better. In terms of QB play, Brady had the better game starting in the 3rd quarter.

[The Old Crow]

What did you think of your defensive game plan? I was surprised that you did not pressure Brady more. Our Oline was pretty good all night despite losing our center early. Seemed as if Brady was able to recognize the match ups all night and exploit them.

I would have blitzed a bit more, but I think Dean was doing everything he could to protect an overmatched secondary. What we need next year are two press type CB's to stop the dinking and dunking Brady did, and Peyton does also. We just didn't have the talent to adequately defend it.

[dw49]

 

It would be team friendly. I don't see why it shouldn't be. As you said, he'll be 41 when the contract expires. It would sort of take the Brady framework, but with more money overall. If you don't mind, I'll go ahead and present the entire deal, as I see it.

 

Five years, $80m, $45m "guaranteed," $15m signing bonus, 2016 option bonus of $10m; $41m in new money, three extra years, expires after the 2019 season (Brees will turn 41 the January after that season)

 

 

Year     PreB      NewB      OB      Salary      Cap hit

2015     7.4        3.0                    8.0          18.4

2016     7.4        3.0         2.50     7.0          19.9

2017                 3.0         2.50     14.0         19.5

2018                 3.0         2.50     13.0         18.5

2019                 3.0         2.50     13.0         18.5

 

Now, we can ask whether Brees would accept that kind of deal. It's basically $16m/year for the next five years, with the first two years fully guaranteed, $5m of the third year fully guaranteed, and then you can guarantee the rest for injury on a year to year basis. Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton and Tom Benton would have quite a sale to make, but I would imagine that Brees would appreciate the need to spread his money out, and this makes it so he can retire as a Saint. It's a very respectful and appreciative legacy deal. 

 

Counter?

 

 

I simply think the Saints will be punished a bit more than that and you need to add some guaranteed money other than that guaranteed 5 mill base in year 3. That's really absolutely useless and his agent would IMO never accept something like that. Unless he "feel apart in year 3 , his base would have to be worth approx 13-14 mill at the very least.. back ups get 5 mill. So your still at only adding a 15 mill signing bonus to the deal and I don't think that get;s it done.

[jvan1973]

This may be the one instance where an entire half of football was about one player. Brady. The Pats ran the ball four times in the second half- a QB sneak by Brady and three kneel downs by Brady. He dropped back on every play and came back from a 14 point deficit twice and then led the GW drive at the end. Perhaps one of the best halves of football in playoff history.

Huh, brady picked off Flacco twice? That is impressive

[-JJ-]

Pressure Brady more? He was pressured a ton from what I saw and hit many times. I would say Flaccos line played better, much better. In terms of QB play, Brady had the better game starting in the 3rd quarter.

Yeah Brady was hit pretty hard and often. He made some good moves on some of those. Plus getting the ball out quick on the fast tempo which you have to do sometimes with that kind of pressure. I wouldn't call the pressure dominant like the Giants had but good pressure nonetheless.

[Shane Bond]

It was a great game by him, one of his best ever in the post season.. you can't possibly deny that? It was an amazing game

And so was for Edelman and Gronk and others

[Shane Bond]

This may be the one instance where an entire half of football was about one player. Brady. The Pats ran the ball four times in the second half- a QB sneak by Brady and three kneel downs by Brady. He dropped back on every play and came back from a 14 point deficit twice and then led the GW drive at the end. Perhaps one of the best halves of football in playoff history.

Yeah, i bet he caught the ball too. Gronk what an useless player.

[Superman]

I simply think the Saints will be punished a bit more than that and you need to add some guaranteed money other than that guaranteed 5 mill base in year 3. That's really absolutely useless and his agent would IMO never accept something like that. Unless he "feel apart in year 3 , his base would have to be worth approx 13-14 mill at the very least.. back ups get 5 mill. So your still at only adding a 15 mill signing bonus to the deal and I don't think that get;s it done.

 

So you don't think the upfront cash and the extra years is incentive enough? I wouldn't think he'd be looking for a raise. It's basically the same money (a little bit more) for the next two years, plus an extra three years. If he's willing to do anything team friendly, I would think that would be a good starting point. 

[dw49]

So you don't think the upfront cash and the extra years is incentive enough? I wouldn't think he'd be looking for a raise. It's basically the same money (a little bit more) for the next two years, plus an extra three years. If he's willing to do anything team friendly, I would think that would be a good starting point. 

 

 

What good are the extra years when they are not guaranteed ? The 5 mill of the 3rd year base salary is just frills IMO. It has zero meaning. I agree with you that he wouldn't be looking for a raise. You're deal is guaranteeing him 30 mill over the next two years and giving him pretty much nothing after that, What good are extra years if not guaranteed at a favorable base salary. The deal he has now would pay him 39 mill over the next two years. That's 9 mill less as the 5 mill you guarantees him in year 3 IMO is nothing more than fluff. That's what a good back up gets.

 

I missed your option bonus. Yeah... that might be close. 

[Superman]

What good are the extra years when they are not guaranteed ? The 5 mill of the 3rd year base salary is just frills IMO. It has zero meaning. I agree with you that he wouldn't be looking for a raise. You're deal is guaranteeing him 30 mill over the next two years and giving him pretty much nothing after that, What good are extra years if not guaranteed at a favorable base salary. The deal he has now would pay him 39 mill over the next two years. That's 9 mill less as the 5 mill you guarantees him in year 3 IMO is nothing more than fluff. That's what a good back up gets.

It's $40m guaranteed over the next two years, including the option bonus. The whole point of guaranteeing the second year is that it makes the option bonus a formality.

The $5m in Year 3 pretty much locks him in for Year 3. The cap penalty to release him before that would be $21m. And the full Year 3 salary is injury guaranteed.

To me, it essentially guarantees him Year 3, assuming he doesn't completely erode before then. And then it gives him a good salary as a nearly 40 year old. Doing that deal now is to his advantage, in case he has a bad year, or gets hurt, or gets undermined by the next great QB prospect. And it all but guarantees him $54m over the next three years, when he currently has zero guaranteed money.

[dw49]

It's $40m guaranteed over the next two years, including the option bonus. The whole point of guaranteeing the second year is that it makes the option bonus a formality.

The $5m in Year 3 pretty much locks him in for Year 3. The cap penalty to release him before that would be $21m. And the full Year 3 salary is injury guaranteed.

To me, it essentially guarantees him Year 3, assuming he doesn't completely erode before then. And then it gives him a good salary as a nearly 40 year old. Doing that deal now is to his advantage, in case he has a bad year, or gets hurt, or gets undermined by the next great QB prospect. And it all but guarantees him $54m over the next three years, when he currently has zero guaranteed money.

 

 

I understand all of what you are saying and think that's probably close to something that would work. However guaranteeing 5 mill of a 14 mill base is pointless and I've never seen anything like that before. I understand what you mean... it will be "harder" for the saints to release him because it will add 5 mill to the dead money. I just don't think they write that kind of stuff into contracts. If hies base was say 18 mill for that year and 10 were guaranteed ... that would be different.

[Superman]

I understand all of what you are saying and think that's probably close to something that would work. However guaranteeing 5 mill of a 14 mill base is pointless and I've never seen anything like that before. I understand what you mean... it will be "harder" for the saints to release him because it will add 5 mill to the dead money. I just don't think they write that kind of stuff into contracts. If hies base was say 18 mill for that year and 10 were guaranteed ... that would be different.

 

You're probably right about the amount. You could probably call it $10m of the $14m salary. Or you could just say the entire 2017 base salary goes guaranteed if he's on the roster on the last day of the 2016 regular season, like the Pats did with Brady for 2015. Or a combination of the two. 

[dw49]

You're probably right about the amount. You could probably call it $10m of the $14m salary. Or you could just say the entire 2017 base salary goes guaranteed if he's on the roster on the last day of the 2016 regular season, like the Pats did with Brady for 2015. Or a combination of the two. 

 

Maybe a roster bonus (?) or maybe just around the guaranteed amount of money you have without the 5 mill.

 

  Brees really didn't have that great of a season , the team struggled and they have very little cap room without the Brees problem. He's probably more likely to do something more "team friendly" than I was originally thinking. He really does need to "bend over a bit" as he's getting older and that team needs help.

[Superman]

Maybe a roster bonus (?) or maybe just around the guaranteed amount of money you have without the 5 mill.

 

  Brees really didn't have that great of a season , the team struggled and they have very little cap room without the Brees problem. He's probably more likely to do something more "team friendly" than I was originally thinking. He really does need to "bend over a bit" as he's getting older and that team needs help.

 

Yeah, you could split the salary into a roster bonus and base salary. But if the salary, or a portion of it, goes guaranteed at the end of the previous year, it locks him in. 

 

And I agree, the whole premise is that the team needs to create cap space, yet Brees is obviously not going anywhere. They have some work to do.

[GoPats]

yeah took it all himself, see you are doing it again

 

At least you're consistent.  ;)

 

Of course it's a team effort, but that was one of the best, most clutch performances by a QB I've seen in a playoff game. You guys always talk about how Luck carries your team because Indy has no run game and a shaky O-line. Brady was under fire all night and, aside from a QB sneak and the kneel-downs at the end of the game, the Pats didn't run the ball once after halftime. 

[Shane Bond]

At least you're consistent. ;)

Of course it's a team effort, but that was one of the best, most clutch performances by a QB I've seen in a playoff game. You guys always talk about how Luck carries your team because Indy has no run game and a shaky O-line. Brady was under fire all night and, aside from a QB sneak and the kneel-downs at the end of the game, the Pats didn't run the ball once after halftime.

just as consistent as your snotty comments.

I feel bad for Edelman and Gronk really.

[GoPats]

just as consistent as your snotty comments.

I feel bad for Edelman and Gronk really.

 

I've been accused of many things but being "snotty" has never been one of them. That's new... thank you for the chuckle.  ;)

 

Why would you feel bad for Edelman and Gronk? Because they aren't getting the credit that their QB might get? That's football dude. Everyone did their jobs for the most part. 

 

It always takes a team effort. We know that. Our appreciation for Brady is justified and stems from the fact that he's been doing this (winning) for 15 years regardless of who is around him. Nine conference title games in 15 years? C'mon, it doesn't matter how much someone may hate him... that's an amazing accomplishment. Over half of the career playoff games he's been in were either conference championships or Super Bowls. And you've got to basically take 2008 out of the equation since he played around 8:00 of football that season. 

 

In addition to that, this is an era when teams are not supposed to have long-term success. If you win your players and coaches get pilfered by other teams... you get low draft picks (the only top-10 pick the Patriots have had in recent years was the one they got from SF inn 2008 and used on Mayo)... you get a harder schedule... etc-etc. 

 

It's the coach-QB combo... those two guys are the constants. Brady was brilliant during the second half of that game with the team essentially riding on his shoulders. 

[amfootball]

I've been accused of many things but being "snotty" has never been one of them. That's new... thank you for the chuckle.  ;)

 

Why would you feel bad for Edelman and Gronk? Because they aren't getting the credit that their QB might get? That's football dude. Everyone did their jobs for the most part. 

 

It always takes a team effort. We know that. Our appreciation for Brady is justified and stems from the fact that he's been doing this (winning) for 15 years regardless of who is around him. Nine conference title games in 15 years? C'mon, it doesn't matter how much someone may hate him... that's an amazing accomplishment. Over half of the career playoff games he's been in were either conference championships or Super Bowls. And you've got to basically take 2008 out of the equation since he played around 8:00 of football that season. 

 

In addition to that, this is an era when teams are not supposed to have long-term success. If you win your players and coaches get pilfered by other teams... you get low draft picks (the only top-10 pick the Patriots have had in recent years was the one they got from SF inn 2008 and used on Mayo)... you get a harder schedule... etc-etc. 

 

It's the coach-QB combo... those two guys are the constants. Brady was brilliant during the second half of that game with the team essentially riding on his shoulders. 

One of the best second halves I have ever seen him play. Right up there with the second half of the snow bowl game ...

[mintor]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12118096/joe-flacco-best-quarterback-football-baltimore-ravens-coach-john-harbaugh-says

 

I understand sticking up for your players, but the best QB in football?

 

 

lol  this only his 7 season.  peyton on his 18 season . too early say he best qb ,lol

[mintor]

One of the best second halves I have ever seen him play. Right up there with the second half of the snow bowl game ...

  right he reason they lost bye throwing  the int in end zone ,lol

[Shane Bond]

I've been accused of many things but being "snotty" has never been one of them. That's new... thank you for the chuckle. ;)

Why would you feel bad for Edelman and Gronk? Because they aren't getting the credit that their QB might get? That's football dude. Everyone did their jobs for the most part.

It always takes a team effort. We know that. Our appreciation for Brady is justified and stems from the fact that he's been doing this (winning) for 15 years regardless of who is around him. Nine conference title games in 15 years? C'mon, it doesn't matter how much someone may hate him... that's an amazing accomplishment. Over half of the career playoff games he's been in were either conference championships or Super Bowls. And you've got to basically take 2008 out of the equation since he played around 8:00 of football that season.

In addition to that, this is an era when teams are not supposed to have long-term success. If you win your players and coaches get pilfered by other teams... you get low draft picks (the only top-10 pick the Patriots have had in recent years was the one they got from SF inn 2008 and used on Mayo)... you get a harder schedule... etc-etc.

It's the coach-QB combo... those two guys are the constants. Brady was brilliant during the second half of that game with the team essentially riding on his shoulders.

DUDE , I like that word.

It's always a team is the point. Just putting all the victory on one guy is bogus. If Pats win its Brady. If they lose, either they have bad receivers or bad OL.

Give some love to Edelman and Gronk. Without them your offense is in shambles. We have games to prove that.

[PickFor6]

39 tds

On the most loaded offense in the league, during the regular season beating up on weak teams.

It's a shame he couldn't carry any of those regular season tds over to the playoffs because he desperately needed them and failed to deliver in a home playoff game against a team that has an average defense.

No excuses for that performance... he played horribly and was one of the main reasons they lost the game

[jvan1973]

On the most loaded offense in the league, during the regular season beating up on weak teams.

It's a shame he couldn't carry any of those regular season tds over to the playoffs because he desperately needed them and failed to deliver in a home playoff game against a team that has an average defense.

No excuses for that performance... he played horribly and was one of the main reasons they lost the game

He was injured. Didn't he and the broncos bounce the pats just twelve months ago?

[amfootball]

He was injured. Didn't he and the broncos bounce the pats just twelve months ago?

You are blaming his performance on his injury? Really? I did not see any limp and the announcers said he was as healthiest he has been all season with the bye week and all. I think the Colts got the better of him by covering up the middle and tackling well on the short passes and forcing the outside the numbers passes. He never looked like he was laboring to me. He never looked like Rodgers did vs Dallas all game.

[jvan1973]

You are blaming his performance on his injury? Really? I did not see any limp and the announcers said he was as healthiest he has been all season with the bye week and all. I think the Colts got the better of him by covering up the middle and tackling well on the short passes and forcing the outside the numbers passes. He never looked like he was laboring to me. He never looked like Rodgers did vs Dallas all game.

The colts played great man to man all day. Andrew and the offense also played great. TY stole talibs lunch money. But I've watched every game the man has ever played. Over throwing sanders like he did all day is something i haven't seen. The injury was to his left quad. If he was unable to step into his throws that would explain that. As far as the announcer knowing how he felt is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. Peyton wouldn't say it was the issue, but something was up. He was hitting the over the top throws in the first half.

His arm has been an issue since the surgery but it isn't considerably worse than it was in the AFCCG last year and the early part of this season

[amfootball]

The colts played great man to man all day. Andrew and the offense also played great. TY stole talibs lunch money. But I've watched every game the man has ever played. Over throwing sanders like he did all day is something i haven't seen. The injury was to his tight quad. If he was unable to step into his throws that would explain that. As far as the announcer knowing how he felt is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. Peyton wouldn't say it was the issue, but something was up. He was hitting the over the top throws in the first half.

His arm has been an issue since the surgery but it isn't considerably worse than it was in the AFCCG last year and the early part of this season

He has looked that way since mid-season though with this throws and the injury supposedly occurred on Dec. 14. I will agree that he did look worse on Sunday but I credit that more to the Colts than I do to his injury. I am surprised you don't feel similar as that really takes away form the great defensive effort your team put forth IMO.

[jvan1973]

He has looked that way since mid-season though with this throws and the injury supposedly occurred on Dec. 14. I will agree that he did look worse on Sunday but I credit that more to the Colts than I do to his injury. I am surprised you don't feel similar as that really takes away form the great defensive effort your team put forth IMO.

I guess you didn't read the first part of my post

[amfootball]

I guess you didn't read the first part of my post

I did. I just think it was more about what the Colts did vs any injury Manning had.

[jvan1973]

I did. I just think it was more about what the Colts did vs any injury Manning had.

Where did i say otherwise. But to act like it wasn't a factor is ignorant

[amfootball]

Where did i say otherwise. But to act like it wasn't a factor is ignorant

You said, "But I've watched every game the man has ever played. Over throwing sanders like he did all day is something i haven't seen."

 

I saw him do it plenty this season vs the Pats, the Rams and last year vs Seattle. Not surprising the Colts had a defensive plan that mirrored those teams and got the same result from Manning.

[jvan1973]

You said, "But I've watched every game the man has ever played. Over throwing sanders like he did all day is something i haven't seen."

I saw him do it plenty this season vs the Pats, the Rams and last year vs Seattle. Not surprising the Colts had a defensive plan that mirrored those teams and got the same result from Manning.

Actually you didn't see it against the pats. The rams got preasurre all day. There is nothing about those three games that are similar in his performance

It was more like the cincy game

[amfootball]

Actually you didn't see it against the pats. The rams got preasurre all day. There is nothing about those three games that are similar in his performance

It was more like the cincy game

I would rate it 90% what Colts did and 10% on any injury.

[jvan1973]

I would rate it 90% what Colts did and 10% on any injury.

Thanks for your input Doc. But that doesn't change the fact those three games weren't at all similar

[amfootball]

Thanks for your input Doc. But that doesn't change the fact those three games weren't at all similar

They were very similar in terms of the defensive game plan. It is not rocket science how to beat Manning healthy or not just have to be disciplined enough and consistent enough to do it. It is a shame the Colts are not getting more credit.