Bigger need, Defense or Offensive Line?

[Manning1887]

As much as I would love for us to draft a load of defensive players in the draft, we need to add some talent to the offensive line as well. 

 

Case for the Offensive Line

Obviously we need a healthy Luck in order to challenge for a Super Bowl. He has taken more than his share of hits. I noticed in the Titans game that he is starting to get "happy feet" while he is in the pocket. A healthy and effective (perhaps even competent) running game would also help keep Luck upright and help the defense by keeping them off the field.It appears to me that Khaled Holmes has a future at center despite his propensity for injuries. Castonzo is locked in at left tackle. Cherilus has struggled at right tackle and battled injuries this season. Thornton has been a bust at right guard. Mewhort has seemed to play well at left guard.

 

Can we afford to use a high draft pick on the offensive line?

I am interested to see if Ulrick John brings anything to the table next season. However, if a guy like Cedric Ogbuehi falls to us, he may be too good to pass up. He struggled when he was moved to left tackle this season, but he is athletic, although he could stand to add a little bulk. He could play guard before being moved to right tackle. La'el Collins from LSU is another option who could start at guard and move to tackle. He has battled injury this season and that has affected his level of play as scouts have viewed his 2013 performance as better and more indicative of his future. These are the only two guys who may fall to the latter part of the first that I would consider. In the 2nd or 3rd round, I would look at Jake Fisher from Oregon. He played left tackle this year for Oregon but has played all over the line for the Ducks.

 

Case for the Defense

Anyone who has watched the defense lately can see we need help. Thank the Lord we have Mike Adams at safety this year. There are a plethora of players we could take early who could have an impact, and the value with our first round pick may lie on the defensive side of the ball. A guy like Danny Shelton from Washington would provide improved nose tackle play. He would probably make Arthur Jones look much better, and drastically improve our run defense. I really like DeForest Buckner from Oregon. A 6'7" 290 lb athletic 3-4 end who could help against the run and provide more of a pass rush from the defensive line. Marcus Peters would be a nice addition to the secondary. Corner is not a big need, but Peters has elite talent. He would pair beautifully with Davis, and Toler has struggled this season. I also am a big fan of Shaq Thompson as a safety. I read an article on nfl.com recently where a couple of scouts view him as a second round pick. He was graded lower than Lavonte David. I am just not sure if we would view him as a safety.

 

Basically, many different directions the team could go. What do you think?

[MTC]

We need to upgrade the defense ASAP.

[crazycolt1]

IMO I think offensive line should be the #1 concern. Protecting Luck and run blocking at this point is in my opinion more important than the defense. I think we have all of our picks so I would think both sides of the ball can get some help. We all have our wishes but I think Grigson may go with the best available? Who knows?

[12isthenew18]

defense

[Boiler_Colt]

Offensive Line is a greater need. Look at Dallas, their defense is still mediocre but an elite O-line has made them a contender in one season.

[austriancolt]

I think the Colts need to address both of their Lines with their first two picks next year. I would go with Eddie Goldman with our first pick. He is a talented DT who has the skills to pressure the QB and he would be an immediate upgrade over Hughes and Chapman improving the whole Defense. With our second pick I would like to get a guy like Ty Sambrailo OT from Colorado State. I know Cherilus was injured but he was a disappointment so far and eats a lot of our cap cake. Due to dead money Colts are not going to release him but Sambrailo has the talent to move inside and play Guard as well. I don't expect the Colts to end their Harrison/Holmes project at the Center position but a guy like Reese Dismukes (C from Auburn) would be a great pick with our third! 

[Superman]

Specific to the draft? Defense. We have very few young defensive players who can impact the game. Most of our better defenders are free agents, and because of that, our cap is about 60% defense. We need some young playmakers on defense who can grow and develop without choking the cap.

[NewColtsFan]

I've been dying to build a great defense.    I called for it a year ago.

 

But,  we're heading into year 4 and we STILL haven't fixed the OL.    And until we do,  Luck will always be under great pressure and the running game will always stall out.      So, reluctantly,  the OL is first.

 

BUT THEN,  I'd like to use picks 2/3/4 to the defense.    One at each level.   DL, Safety, LB.

 

In R5,  we can look for the best RB or WR available....

 

And in R6,   the best WR or RB available that we didn't take the round before.

 

R7.....   Best Player Available, regardless of position.

[BOTT]

Draft: defense

Free Agency: offensive line

[Superman]

I've been dying to build a great defense.    I called for it a year ago.

 

But,  we're heading into year 4 and we STILL haven't fixed the OL.    And until we do,  Luck will always be under great pressure and the running game will always stall out.      So, reluctantly,  the OL is first.

 

BUT THEN,  I'd like to use picks 2/3/4 to the defense.    One at each level.   DL, Safety, LB.

 

In R5,  we can look for the best RB or WR available....

 

And in R6,   the best WR or RB available that we didn't take the round before.

 

R7.....   Best Player Available, regardless of position.

 

And while that sounds great in theory, I think we all know Grigson's draft board is not going to be set up based on positional need.

[loudnproudcolt]

Offensive Line is a greater need. Look at Dallas, their defense is still mediocre but an elite O-line has made them a contender in one season.

 

This is right on the money. Luck needs to be protected. He has had so many hits, leading to fumbles, and getting rid of the ball quicker than he wants, leading to interceptions. He feels he has to carry the team and takes risks.

 

A team that can run the ball successfully lends itself to play action. It would give our deep threats, TY, Montcrief, and Fleener the extra second where the CB is sucked in for just a quick look. Also the quote is right on. A defense can be mediocre if you can control the line of scrimmage on the OL. The amount of plays they are out there is less, they have more energy. Additionally, anytime the other team has the ball, as long as they need to make the long march, turnovers happen. We have CB's, and if we get the safety position up to where it should be, our defense would be just fine, if we have a good or superior OL. Oh how I can wish.

Look what one player did for Dallas this year. The one pick from Notre Dame solidified that line. They do have a lot of 1st rounders, 3/5, but regardless Dallas has been mediocre at best until this year, and the OL is the reason. They make Romo, Dez. and DeMarco go.

[Defjamz26]

Offensive line can probably be fixed with what we have though. Maybe a little shuffling

[NewColtsFan]

And while that sounds great in theory, I think we all know Grigson's draft board is not going to be set up based on positional need.

 

 

I'm not sure that's true....

 

I'm not sure that Werner was the highest rated player on our board, or the highest rated player at a position of need?

 

Same with Mewhort.     Same with Thornton, Holmes, and Hughes.    Same with Newsome.

 

Moncrief is an example of highest rated despite position of need. 

 

I think there are plenty of examples of Grigson targeting a certain player for a position of need and pulling the trigger.

[Superman]

I'm not sure that's true....

 

I'm not sure that Werner was the highest rated player on our board, or the highest rated player at a position of need?

 

Same with Mewhort.     Same with Thornton, Holmes, and Hughes.    Same with Newsome.

 

Moncrief is an example of highest rated despite position of need. 

 

I think there are plenty of examples of Grigson targeting a certain player for a position of need and pulling the trigger.

 

Unless we see his board, there's no way to say definitively, but I'm convinced that Grigson doesn't draft based on positional need. I think he takes the highest rated guy on his board. And I think that's true of all the players you named. Whether I agree with his board is a different story...

 

And in cases like Hilton or Hughes, whom he moved up for, I think if he gets within shouting distance of a player he's fallen in love with, he'll try to get him. He only moved up 5 spots for Hilton.

 

Of course, I think perceived need can influence any GM's board, consciously or otherwise. But I don't think Grigson is going to say "we're going OL in the first round." This is based on his drafts and his comments on how he approaches his drafts.

[BOTT]

Offensive line can probably be fixed with what we have though. Maybe a little shuffling

I would bring in a solid vet for the interior if the line......which should have been done this past off season.

[Manning1887]

This is right on the money. Luck needs to be protected. He has had so many hits, leading to fumbles, and getting rid of the ball quicker than he wants, leading to interceptions. He feels he has to carry the team and takes risks.

 

A team that can run the ball successfully lends itself to play action. It would give our deep threats, TY, Montcrief, and Fleener the extra second where the CB is sucked in for just a quick look. Also the quote is right on. A defense can be mediocre if you can control the line of scrimmage on the OL. The amount of plays they are out there is less, they have more energy. Additionally, anytime the other team has the ball, as long as they need to make the long march, turnovers happen. We have CB's, and if we get the safety position up to where it should be, our defense would be just fine, if we have a good or superior OL. Oh how I can wish.

Look what one player did for Dallas this year. The one pick from Notre Dame solidified that line. They do have a lot of 1st rounders, 3/5, but regardless Dallas has been mediocre at best until this year, and the OL is the reason. They make Romo, Dez. and DeMarco go.

 

This is easier said than done though. I felt like the offensive linemen in the 2014 draft were particularly good. It seems as though the offensive linemen in the 2015 class are full of question marks. At this moment, it seems like La'el Collins and/or Cedric Ogbuehi have a shot at being available in the 20's, but they are no sure thing. If Brandon Scherff falls into the late teens, perhaps we could trade up for him. Scherff has had some injury issues but is strong as an ox, and he could be an impact right guard similar to Zack Martin with the Cowboys.

[CS Coltsfan]

We have to protect Luck !! if that means we draft OLine or cjhange Offensive Line coach or both.... but Oline is priority # 1 just like I felt it was last year...  I do think we need to at minimum get an Oline guy in the first 2 rounds... Mewhort has been a pleasant surprise... I didn't think he would be near as good as he has..

 

 

Cameron Erving C  FSU... he has great upside... versatile can play all 3 positions on the Oline...hope he can stay until our pick in the 2nd.. but he probably won't...

 

Shaq Thompson as a safety... could also be our ILB .. be covers well and is good on the run as well as pass rusher and loves to hit..

my concern is will he last to our 2nd rnd pick

 

initially at the first part of the college season I was all for Benardrick Mckinney, ... great size and speed...but have concerns if he would be able to cover the TE's and recievers that we need in the middle... probably best one for that is Eric Kedricks from UCLA..

 

be great is we could grab Erving in the 1st and Shaq in the 2nd... or vise versa

[CS Coltsfan]

I like Ronnie Stanely T.. from ND... but don't think he will even get to us in the 1st...

[Colts_Fan12]

I'd love a big nose tackle and an inside and outside linebacker in this draft also got S as a need tho too hope we can fill as many as possible

[CS Coltsfan]

me too, but at what cost to Luck?? .. we were in week 16 and on our 10 starting Oline.... I know we had injuries but IMO we could have had a more consistent Oline even with the injuries than what we had and to me that is Coaching and Pride

[Track Guy]

Our O-line really is the key. If we can acquire a veteran player through free agency that is good and has position versatility, I say we make that happen even if it's a bit expensive. In which case, defense would really be where I'd want us to go early in the draft. If we don't bring in any good O-linemen through free agency I don't see how we even have a choice not to try to do everything in our power to upgrade the O-line in the draft.

[CS Coltsfan]

I agree with the O-line being Key... but last year we had numerous chances in FA to get a center and/ or a guard and the FO response was when questioned... we looked at everyone and we didn't feel that they were any better / any improvement over what we currently had... IMO our Oline worked better last year on the whole... we ran better ... Luck passed better ( accuracy) ... that may be on better routes ran or play calling... just seem as bad as it was that this years O-line seem worse even with the upgrade at LG..

[Coltscrazy]

This is easier said than done though. I felt like the offensive linemen in the 2014 draft were particularly good. It seems as though the offensive linemen in the 2015 class are full of question marks. At this moment, it seems like La'el Collins and/or Cedric Ogbuehi have a shot at being available in the 20's, but they are no sure thing. If Brandon Scherff falls into the late teens, perhaps we could trade up for him. Scherff has had some injury issues but is strong as an ox, and he could be an impact right guard similar to Zack Martin with the Cowboys.

I think this is absolutely true.  I think it is pretty obvious OL is our biggest need, but it looks like real slim pickings.  There are no Tarik Glenns or Larry Warfords this year.  Some guys can run block, and are helpless against speed, while other can pass block but get absolutely no push.  I think Miami is looking really smart for taking Jwuan James early last year.  It's getting really hard to find athletic, agressive, OL who can both run and pass block, even with a late first round pick.  Go Iupati in FA, and pray about the RT because I don't see a solution in the draft.  This draft is crazy loaded with linebackers, and I think that will have to be our pick.  I'd probably take a linebacker with the first two picks and grab a DB in the third.

1.  Hau"oli Kikaha  OLB

2.  Eli Harold or Nate Orchard OLBs

3.Daryl Williams RT or Kurtis Drummond S

[rock8591]

OL Free agency, Defense draft. Safety and LB are positions where players can perform ASAP.

[DougDew]

Defense.  All of the teams with good QBs that the colts played this year scored at least 40 points, IIRC.

 

There are enough young players to develop on the oline.  Need more younger players on the D.

[akcolt]

we have to fix the O Line to go anywhere. If Luck keeps getting hit like he has nothing else will matter. He is the franchise.  I think Superman is right Grigs will go BPA hopefully Collins slips to us.

 

Would love to see

Collins

Perryman

Harris

 

It will be interesting to see how far the two Ducks fall as well Olomu with the recent injury and Armstead was banged up all year both make big plays wouldn't mind grabbing either one of those guys. Both were seen as first round talent at one point as well.

 

WE have to get the O Line squared away. It is a complete mess. If everyone were healthy does anyone know who our starters are? I am not absolutely  sure who the C or RG would be. You can't operate like that we need some continuity it is frustrating, Who's in charge and what are they trying to accomplish?

[coltsfanatic24]

Defense is a much bigger need, front 7 needs to be upgraded.

[Gavin]

Like Superman said, Specific to the draft:Defense

 

In general: O Line and I don't think its close, Problem is I don't see Grigson tinkering with the O Line much, Im expecting much of the O Linemen we have now back except Nixon....Maybe Reitz....But I expect both of those players to be replaced with perhaps 1 late draft pick or undrafted player and 1 backup vet who can come in and compete........No clear upgrades, just competition

[theanarchist]

As much as I would love for us to draft a load of defensive players in the draft, we need to add some talent to the offensive line as well. 

 

Case for the Offensive Line

Obviously we need a healthy Luck in order to challenge for a Super Bowl. He has taken more than his share of hits. I noticed in the Titans game that he is starting to get "happy feet" while he is in the pocket. A healthy and effective (perhaps even competent) running game would also help keep Luck upright and help the defense by keeping them off the field.It appears to me that Khaled Holmes has a future at center despite his propensity for injuries. Castonzo is locked in at left tackle. Cherilus has struggled at right tackle and battled injuries this season. Thornton has been a bust at right guard. Mewhort has seemed to play well at left guard.

 

Can we afford to use a high draft pick on the offensive line?

I am interested to see if Ulrick John brings anything to the table next season. However, if a guy like Cedric Ogbuehi falls to us, he may be too good to pass up. He struggled when he was moved to left tackle this season, but he is athletic, although he could stand to add a little bulk. He could play guard before being moved to right tackle. La'el Collins from LSU is another option who could start at guard and move to tackle. He has battled injury this season and that has affected his level of play as scouts have viewed his 2013 performance as better and more indicative of his future. These are the only two guys who may fall to the latter part of the first that I would consider. In the 2nd or 3rd round, I would look at Jake Fisher from Oregon. He played left tackle this year for Oregon but has played all over the line for the Ducks.

 

Case for the Defense

Anyone who has watched the defense lately can see we need help. Thank the Lord we have Mike Adams at safety this year. There are a plethora of players we could take early who could have an impact, and the value with our first round pick may lie on the defensive side of the ball. A guy like Danny Shelton from Washington would provide improved nose tackle play. He would probably make Arthur Jones look much better, and drastically improve our run defense. I really like DeForest Buckner from Oregon. A 6'7" 290 lb athletic 3-4 end who could help against the run and provide more of a pass rush from the defensive line. Marcus Peters would be a nice addition to the secondary. Corner is not a big need, but Peters has elite talent. He would pair beautifully with Davis, and Toler has struggled this season. I also am a big fan of Shaq Thompson as a safety. I read an article on nfl.com recently where a couple of scouts view him as a second round pick. He was graded lower than Lavonte David. I am just not sure if we would view him as a safety.

 

Basically, many different directions the team could go. What do you think

I like the idea of signing a veteran offensive lineman. A true stud with leadership. This line is young an inexperienced mostly and needs a leader. Draft the best available S or DE in round 1.

[GwinnettColt]

I would bring in a solid vet for the interior if the line......which should have been done this past off season.

 

It would be interesting to explore some different blocking schemes as well.  

[NewColtsFan]

It would be interesting to explore some different blocking schemes as well.  

 

Thank you.    Agreed.

 

I'd like to hear from CoffeeDrinker, who apparently understands OL blocking like few others here...

 

I'd like to know what he thinks of Man blocking vs. Zone blocking schemes. 

 

I'm about maxed out on Man blocking.    I works when it's done right,  but I get the sense that we don't often do it very well.

And I also get the sense that most colleges run mostly zone blocking.    I suspect it's easier to learn and easier to execute.   And that means most college kids coming into the NFL are going to pick-up zone blocking quicker than man blocking.

 

In short,  it feels like we've made our blocking schemes harder on ourselves than we need to.

 

We don't need to phase out the man schemes.   But more zone schemes I think would be very helpful.

 

Of course,  I also could be entirely full of _____!     One can never count that out!!        

[Gavin]

Thank you.    Agreed.

 

I'd like to hear from CoffeeDrinker, who apparently understands OL blocking like few others here...

 

I'd like to know what he thinks of Man blocking vs. Zone blocking schemes. 

 

I'm about maxed out on Man blocking.    I works when it's done right,  but I get the sense that we don't often do it very well.

And I also get the sense that most colleges run mostly zone blocking.    I suspect it's easier to learn and easier to execute.   And that means most college kids coming into the NFL are going to pick-up zone blocking quicker than man blocking.

 

In short,  it feels like we've made our blocking schemes harder on ourselves than we need to.

 

We don't need to phase out the man schemes.   But more zone schemes I think would be very helpful.

 

Of course,  I also could be entirely full of _____!     One can never count that out!!        

Zone Blocking: your blocking an area

 

Man Blocking is exactly as it says it is: your blocking a man

 

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/5/27/4363750/zone-blocking-running-football-breakdown-highlights-analysis-diagram

 

 

There is more to Zone then that though, The above link covers much of it

 

We should have been doing Zone Blocking since the acquisition of Satele and Mcglynn actually I believe(It would have helped but you can only help bad O Linemen so much). Though in my personal opinion from what I see when I watch these guys (our O Linemen) I think doing more Zone Blocking will only help so much, Most of our O Linemen are young and there techniques are very inconsistent, often times they struggle to pick up there feet when they do use the proper hand technique.....And quite frankly I think some of the blocking assignments are bad. I'd demonstrate with pictures if I could

 

Zone Blocking requires smaller mobile O Linemen....Think Evan Mathis 6'5" 298lbs...Where as many think of Man Blocking O Linemen as having to be massive road graders......Think Mike Lupati 6'6" 331lbs

 

Khaled Holmes would fit that O Lineman best suited for Zone Blocking do to him being very mobile for an O Lineman but he is not an O Lineman thats going to blow a bigger D Lineman off the ball consistently

[CopenhagenColt]

Free Agency and the Draft can't be separated. We need better to improve both defense and O-line, so Grigson will be looking at FA/Draft as a whole.

Cowboys have the best O-line in football currently, and suddenly they're contenders and Romo looks like an elite QB and DeMarco Murray looks like a hall of famer. I'm sure that had we had their O-line, Luck would be this years MVP.

But unfortunately, we don't and our QB gets hit way to much and our running game is, at best, mediocre.

 

A good RT and a Guard would be nice. An elite C would be nice, but that won't happen.

[conklincolt]

Free agency will be tuff.  we have to pay  TY and luck and others very soon.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

O line, then defense, then offensive weapons

[BOTT]

Free agency will be tuff.  we have to pay  TY and luck and others very soon.

Not sure why everyone thinks all the colts young guys are going to get elite money. With Russell Wilson still to be signed the Seahawks have signed a number of the defensive stars to nice contracts. Colts should be fine

[mintor]

As much as I would love for us to draft a load of defensive players in the draft, we need to add some talent to the offensive line as well. 

 

Case for the Offensive Line

Obviously we need a healthy Luck in order to challenge for a Super Bowl. He has taken more than his share of hits. I noticed in the Titans game that he is starting to get "happy feet" while he is in the pocket. A healthy and effective (perhaps even competent) running game would also help keep Luck upright and help the defense by keeping them off the field.It appears to me that Khaled Holmes has a future at center despite his propensity for injuries. Castonzo is locked in at left tackle. Cherilus has struggled at right tackle and battled injuries this season. Thornton has been a bust at right guard. Mewhort has seemed to play well at left guard.

 

Can we afford to use a high draft pick on the offensive line?

I am interested to see if Ulrick John brings anything to the table next season. However, if a guy like Cedric Ogbuehi falls to us, he may be too good to pass up. He struggled when he was moved to left tackle this season, but he is athletic, although he could stand to add a little bulk. He could play guard before being moved to right tackle. La'el Collins from LSU is another option who could start at guard and move to tackle. He has battled injury this season and that has affected his level of play as scouts have viewed his 2013 performance as better and more indicative of his future. These are the only two guys who may fall to the latter part of the first that I would consider. In the 2nd or 3rd round, I would look at Jake Fisher from Oregon. He played left tackle this year for Oregon but has played all over the line for the Ducks.

 

Case for the Defense

Anyone who has watched the defense lately can see we need help. Thank the Lord we have Mike Adams at safety this year. There are a plethora of players we could take early who could have an impact, and the value with our first round pick may lie on the defensive side of the ball. A guy like Danny Shelton from Washington would provide improved nose tackle play. He would probably make Arthur Jones look much better, and drastically improve our run defense. I really like DeForest Buckner from Oregon. A 6'7" 290 lb athletic 3-4 end who could help against the run and provide more of a pass rush from the defensive line. Marcus Peters would be a nice addition to the secondary. Corner is not a big need, but Peters has elite talent. He would pair beautifully with Davis, and Toler has struggled this season. I also am a big fan of Shaq Thompson as a safety. I read an article on nfl.com recently where a couple of scouts view him as a second round pick. He was graded lower than Lavonte David. I am just not sure if we would view him as a safety.

 

Basically, many different directions the team could go.  

 

What do you think Case for o'line is first period. luck get hurt then your screwed.   defense be last.,  no rb is needed.