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Was Jim Harbaugh really a success at SF?


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....As many games as his 49er teams won and all the title games they 'reached',we judge QBs and coaches by

titles they win..not by coming close..not by how much better they got than the previous QB or coach..

/We are very, very critical of QBs who lose in the title game repeatedly.

..So as Harbaugh leave his team in decline with injured vets and a questionable QB......you can judge...was Jim Harbaugh a success at SF?

Your thoughts......

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Yes, he was a success.  3 consecutive NFC Championship Game appearances, a trip to the Super Bowl, that's a lot of success in a short span of time.  He inherited a talented team, but he also brought the talent together and made it all work whereas coaches before him were unable to do so

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....As many games as his 49er teams won and all the title games they 'reached',we judge QBs and coaches by

titles they win..not by coming close..not by how much better they got than the previous QB or coach..

/We are very, very critical of QBs who lose in the title game repeatedly.

..So as Harbaugh leave his team in decline with injured vets and a questionable QB......you can judge...was Jim Harbaugh a success at SF?

Your thoughts......

 

Maybe you do but I do not.

 

 

Yes he was very successful at San Francisco, they were a consistently mediocre team before he got there after they were a championship quality team.

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Maybe you do but I do not.

 

 

Yes he was very successful at San Francisco, they were a consistently mediocre team before he got there after they were a championship quality team.

Then John Fox is a success..right? See what Im saying.

Fox is considered (to some) to have fallen short while Harbaugh is considered a savior.

Look at their records the last 4 years.

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The answer to your question lies with the prior regime ...   how did that work out?   And the next one will give a definite answer.  

 

Egos...          The Jerry Jones effect is in full "effect" here...          Sad really.

 

Harbaugh can flat get it DONE.     and has EVERYWHERE he has went.   

 

He will have Michigan a NT contender in his second season.  

 

....As many games as his 49er teams won and all the title games they 'reached',we judge QBs and coaches by
titles they win..not by coming close..not by how much better they got than the previous QB or coach..

/We are very, very critical of QBs who lose in the title game repeatedly.

..So as Harbaugh leave his team in decline with injured vets and a questionable QB......you can judge...was Jim Harbaugh a success at SF?

Your thoughts......

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Then John Fox is a success..right? See what Im saying.

Fox is considered (to some) to have fallen short while Harbaugh is considered a savior.

Look at their records the last 4 years.

 

I think the situations are different, but yes I see what you are saying.  Fox has been successful, first with Carolina and now with Denver.

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I think the situations are different, but yes I see what you are saying.  Fox has been successful, first with Carolina and now with Denver.

I'm not saying Harbaugh has failed..certainly not....but Fox has a better record in the last 4 years..

..has also lost in the Super Bowl....and he's hardly considered a genius

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Then John Fox is a success..right? See what Im saying.

Fox is considered (to some) to have fallen short while Harbaugh is considered a savior.

Look at their records the last 4 years.

Harbaugh didn't have Peyton Manning as his quarterback. Wherever Manning goes, expectations are raised. Harbaugh did well with what he had, though I'm sure he would have liked a ring or two.
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I'm going to express what will likely be a very non-PC opinion.

 

I think teams and fans that judge purely on titles are foolish.  Are titles important, no doubt.   Are the the ultimate goal, no doubt.  Are they easy to obtain, obviously not.  Judging a QB or a coach only by the final destination completely discounts the number and impact of injuries (yes, they do make a difference).  While not the "ultimate" achievement, going deep in the playoffs is something only the best teams do.  It takes luck to make the Super Bowl and sometimes luck to win the Super Bowl.  It also takes talent, and talent that performs up to their potential.

 

An old saying that is very true:  "When you win (as a coach or a qb) you get more credit than you deserve and when you lose you take more blame than you deserve."

 

If a well-coached team has one team member that makes a bone-headed play that costs a championship, some of you would blame the coach.  The coach gets a team prepared to play but the humanity of the player can blow the opportunity.  I think it was 2006, AFC Championship round between the Chargers and the Patriots.  Chargers make an interception that could seal the game and a player who shall never be named decides to run the ball out of the end zone and fumbles it back to the Patriots who go on to win the game and go to the Super Bowl.  That situation had been very recently discussed by the coaches with the team.  The player didn't stop and draw on the coaching he had been given and he cost a potential SB appearance.  Coaches are not Gods, they're mentors.  The ultimate competitor is the player(s).  

 

If a team makes the playoffs consistently and goes past the first round on a consistent basis, I believe you are foolish to tear up an organization rather than tweak it.  

 

A coach is only going to be as good as the players the front office procures for him.  A great coach can be hampered by a poor GM or owner.  I don't know enough about SF to know how their drafts have gone and what he had to work with.  It seems like a philosophical difference/personality difference is the main issue.  Not sure firing the coach in that circumstance is what needs to happen *See Marty Schottenheimer & AJ Smith feud*

 

Look at the statistics of teams that routinely replace coaching staffs, it's really bad.  Look at the Raiders as a prime example, 20 years of the merry-go-round has left them deep in the wilderness.  

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I'm not saying Harbaugh has failed..certainly not....but Fox has a better record in the last 4 years..

..has also lost in the Super Bowl....and he's hardly considered a genius

Yes, Harbaugh is a great coach.

Fox does not get credit for his most recent success because he has Manning as his QB. When they win, it is because of Manning but when they lose it is because of the coaching. Unlike most fans here, I like Fox. He went to the Super Bowl with Jake Delhomme as his QB, if memory serves me correctly.

I'd still take Harbaugh over Fox.

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Yes, he was a success.  3 consecutive NFC Championship Game appearances, a trip to the Super Bowl, that's a lot of success in a short span of time.  He inherited a talented team, but he also brought the talent together and made it all work whereas coaches before him were unable to do so

This.

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Yes.

 

To follow some of the logic offered in this thread, I guess there have been only 48 successful coaches in the history of the modern NFL.  :)

 

Less than that if you count multiple superbowl wins by some coaches.

 

Which then would mean that some are 2 or 3 times more successful than others.

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So are you legitimately posting a question? Or are you just trying to find some weird way to legitimize John Fox?

Because the situations were far from apples to apples.

And even then Harbaugh has accomplished more to this point.

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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who wins and how teams win. Sometimes it's coaching, sometimes it's the more rare but ever aparent case of a guy like Peyton Manning (still coaching...just not the coach lol). Then there are the Seahawks who...well I don't know how to explain them lol!

I think it's obvious that the 49ers had coaching to thank for what was definitely success. Vernon Davis was the TE version of Jeff George.

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time will only tell when we see how they do this upcoming season.

 

They have a lot of resigning to do with players so that will be a huge blow considering many of them will be upset about Harbaugh. Half the team will be eligible for free agency.

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....As many games as his 49er teams won and all the title games they 'reached',we judge QBs and coaches by

titles they win..not by coming close..not by how much better they got than the previous QB or coach..

/We are very, very critical of QBs who lose in the title game repeatedly.

..So as Harbaugh leave his team in decline with injured vets and a questionable QB......you can judge...was Jim Harbaugh a success at SF?

Your thoughts......

 

I have no idea why you'd put title games they "reached" into quotes?     They reached 3 straight title games -- period.

 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?   

 

Those three straight title games were in his first three years.    Wouldn't Colts fans be thrilled with Chuck Pagano if he had taken the Colts to three straight title games in his first three years?      And if Pagano got run out of town after that,  wouldn't the fan base here be furious?

 

Harbaugh was hugely successful for three seasons.    And yet he started year 4 with reports that he had to win a Super Bowl or else he'd likely be gone.     Who in the world does business that way?

 

He's a royal pain in the behind.    But Harbaugh is an outstanding coach.    He just burns out everyone he deals with.   Players, fellow coaches,  administrators,  and even those he works for like his GM and owner.    He's got a short shelf-life.

 

But his run in SF was terrific.      I'm not sure how anyone argues otherwise.......

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Neither has won a title

 

Fox has coached in the NFL for decades.    Harbaugh for 4 years.

 

In his first three years he went to 3 NFC title games and one Super Bowl.

 

Not sure where the comparison is here?      Neither has won a title?     Big deal.    Most coaches haven't won a title.   That doesn't make them as good as Jim Harbaugh.

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Fox has coached in the NFL for decades.    Harbaugh for 4 years.

 

In his first three years he went to 3 NFC title games and one Super Bowl.

 

Not sure where the comparison is here?      Neither has won a title?     Big deal.    Most coaches haven't won a title.   That doesn't make them as good as Jim Harbaugh.

To add to this.....John Fox led a Panther team in 2003 to the SB in only his second year as HC and came within a last second  Adam V game winning field goal of winning the game....Some just don't seem to realize how important having good or great players is when it comes to winning games, If you have have a mediocre or bad roster I don't care how good of a coach ya are ya cant coach inept players, Case in point...Andy Reid.....former HC of the Eagles led his team to SB with Donavan Mcnabb as QB and TO at WR....1 great wr in his prime and 1 very good QB in his prime......Andy led that team to the SB.

 

 

Fast forward 10 years later Andy has a barely average QB and a team where a wr did not even score a TD this year......There is no amount of coaching a coach could do with Alex Smith as your QB. He aint terrible, He just aint that good

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I have no idea why you'd put title games they "reached" into quotes?     They reached 3 straight title games -- period.

 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?   

 

Those three straight title games were in his first three years.    Wouldn't Colts fans be thrilled with Chuck Pagano if he had taken the Colts to three straight title games in his first three years?      And if Pagano got run out of town after that,  wouldn't the fan base here be furious?

 

Harbaugh was hugely successful for three seasons.    And yet he started year 4 with reports that he had to win a Super Bowl or else he'd likely be gone.     Who in the world does business that way?

 

He's a royal pain in the behind.    But Harbaugh is an outstanding coach.    He just burns out everyone he deals with.   Players, fellow coaches,  administrators,  and even those he works for like his GM and owner.    He's got a short shelf-life.

 

But his run in SF was terrific.      I'm not sure how anyone argues otherwise.......

It can take decades to find a coach of Harbaugh's stature ... the last great one thay had was Seifert. They are now going to interview Josh McDaniels. I would be crying if I was a niners fan ...

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Is the OP being serious with this question?

 

Did you hear the press conference yesterday with the Niner CEO? It was combative. For the relationship to have ended over "philosophical" differences is a joke. Niners mgmt needed to get on board with Jim's philosophy. 

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Is the OP being serious with this question?

 

Did you hear the press conference yesterday with the Niner CEO? It was combative. For the relationship to have ended over "philosophical" differences is a joke. Niners mgmt needed to get on board with Jim's philosophy. 

 

Now, I don't know Jim Harbaugh personally so I'm merely speculating here. With that said, I've been in the business world for some years now and in my experience, there are certain guys with similar personality traits to Jim Harbaugh that just don't last a long time at one particular business. That kind of mentality and attitude works only so long before it drives people away. And when it involves head management (Harbaugh) vs. executive level (Owner/GM), it can get nasty very quickly. I'm surprised that the 49ers won 8 games this year with Harbaugh with all the trouble in that locker room.

 

I think that Harbaugh will probably be at Michigan a little longer than he was at Stanford and the 49ers mainly because he will have much more freedom to call his own shots with very little push back from the AD or anyone else for that matter.

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John Fox has a noted history of blunders in critical games as a head coach. He's not a bad head coach at all, but to try and use Harbaugh's short stint in SF as some kind of barometer to validate Fox's career is a monumental reach.

Harbaugh was THE key contributor to the Niners turnaround, whereas I would credit the Broncos recent turnaround more to John Elway/Manning than anyone else... John Fox is just kinda there, along for the ride, in my opinion.

And maybe that's just the price you have to pay, being the head coach of Peyton Manning. When you win, it's all Manning, but if you lose, it's the coaching lol

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Yes, of course Harbaugh was a huge success in SF. The 49ers are fools to let him go and I say that as a Seahawks fan. I don't doubt that he was a royal pain in the butt to deal with but you find a way to do it when you have a great coach.

Personally I think York and Baalke sabotaged their season this year because they were so desperate to get him out. I have no doubt they were the ones behind all the negative leaks about Harbaugh that kept coming out in the media. They are a couple of arrogant fools who have managed to undermine the best coach the team has had since Bill Walsh. Harbaugh's departure is good for the Seahawks and the rest of the NFC West but bad for 49ers fans.

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Time will tell.  Harbaugh may be overrated but dumping a coach like that who's done nothing but win games for years is not a good move.  

 

York has set himself and the next coach up for failure here.  The only way the next coach can succeed there is by winning the SB and soon.  That is it.  Otherwise they will be judged against what Harbaugh did which was 3 NFC championship games and a SB appearance in 4 years.  

 

Even though SF is one of the most talented teams in need of a coach, I wouldn't want to be the coach there.  Because you will automatically be hated.  

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Now, I don't know Jim Harbaugh personally so I'm merely speculating here. With that said, I've been in the business world for some years now and in my experience, there are certain guys with similar personality traits to Jim Harbaugh that just don't last a long time at one particular business. That kind of mentality and attitude works only so long before it drives people away. And when it involves head management (Harbaugh) vs. executive level (Owner/GM), it can get nasty very quickly. I'm surprised that the 49ers won 8 games this year with Harbaugh with all the trouble in that locker room.

 

I think that Harbaugh will probably be at Michigan a little longer than he was at Stanford and the 49ers mainly because he will have much more freedom to call his own shots with very little push back from the AD or anyone else for that matter.

Yes.  All of your skills, talent, and intellect in the world won't serve you well for very long if people just simply don't like you.....that you annoy the heck out them whenever you're in the same room.

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