Let's Trade Peyton

[FireJimCaldwell]

According to http://espn.go.com/n...scouting-report, under the "Measureables," Peyton and Eli both tied for the NFL high of 39 on the Wonderlic. This is coming from ESPN, so chances are it's legit.

I've never seen that stat for Peyton. I've seen it for Eli. I remember seeing something with Peyton saying he finished it in like 6 minutes or something like that...

[shaunzo]

Trade him.

1.) We have no clue how Manning will respond coming off three neck surgeries.

2.) Manning is not getting any younger. By all accounts, age-wise, he should be declining.

3.) Manning hasn't even been able to work out (heavily) until recently, so he may not be in 100% shape to commence next season.

4.) We aren't going to win a Superbowl next season with our current coaching staff, poor special teams, poor defense, etc. By all accounts, we need to think "rebuilding mode." Yes, Peyton makes us better, but there's only so much he can do. Let him try winning a Superbowl elsewhere. He deserves it.

5.) He will steal Luck's practice snaps. Why do you all think Sorgi and Painter play so poorly!?!

6.) His contract is expensive. Can you imagine the cap space we will save with him gone?

7.) Considering the Carson Palmer trade, we should get at least a 1st and 2nd rounder for Peyton. Why pass that up while saving cap space?

8.) Our o-line is poor. Factor in Peyton's rust, age, and Caldwell's coaching, and Peyton could get re-injured. That means bye bye draft pick trades!

9.) Football is a business, period. The Patriots had no qualms saying bye to Moss, Vrabel, Bruschi, and Seymour. Want to bet Brady's turn will come?

Good points except for the O-Line. They really are much improved this year, and will only be better next year. But that defense, ouch.

[Bond Shane]

The reason is that Tom Brady is Peyton's contemporary. He has three rings, 4 AFC Titles, the all-time TD single-season record, and an undefeated regular season under his belt. If you stack that up against what Peyton has achieved with the Colts, who do you think comes out ahead? I think some Colts fans are obsessed with Peyton being perceived as being the greatest ever to play the game. But Brady makes it highly debatable whether Peyton is even the best of his era. Thus, some Colts fans feel an added urgency for Peyton to make one last flurry to cement this claim as time ticks away. It doesn't really matter to me personally if Peyton is the G.O.A.T., but some here seem obsessed by it.

With due respect to you, purists know who has better game ( Manning v Brady ).

Championships are won by

53 players ( Offense, Defense, Special teams )

Great coaching stafff

Great Front Office

Peyton Manning's Quarterback Rating in playoffs are better than Brady.

Now compare the other factors ( coaches, defenses , special teams etc ) between the 2 teams for the last 10 yrs. Also see the real colts without Manning this year.

Now if we still think Brady is better than Manning, then Sun must be rising from West.

[luvdacolts67]

Come on guys we have to trade Peyton, right? I mean we are 0-12 without him this season. If we release or trade him, we should be a lot better, right? Ryan Leaf Jr. at Stanford is our savior.

On a serious note, these people who are even considering the thought of trading or releasing the greatest QB to play football to put faith in some guy in college that doesn't even play in the SEC, needs to wake up and realize the reason this organization has been a powerhouse in the NFL for the past 9 years is because of 18. It's that simple. Shouldn't the Colts organization and Colts fan give Manning the opportunity to come back next season and bring this team back to greatness? If Peyton is healthy and says he's ready to play, Polian and Irsay have to trust him and give him the chance to come back and lead this franchise back to the promise land.

I have to laugh about your " bring this team back to greatness" quote. This team hasnt won a game without him and with him they make the playoffs and then lose. Manning is the GOAT but he cant do it all. The problem is in the front office and since that dosnt seem to ever change I dont care who is your QB, our team will not ever get to a championship caliber level. The question isnt Manning or Luck. Luck will never be as great as Manning and I dont know if Manning has enough time left to make the moves that are necessary to build a great team. If Pollian continues using the same Philosophy, It wont matter.

[Coltsman1788]

With due respect to you, purists know who has better game ( Manning v Brady ).

Championships are won by

53 players ( Offense, Defense, Special teams )

Great coaching stafff

Great Front Office

Peyton Manning's Quarterback Rating in playoffs are better than Brady.

Now compare the other factors ( coaches, defenses , special teams etc ) between the 2 teams for the last 10 yrs. Also see the real colts without Manning this year.

Now if we still think Brady is better than Manning, then Sun must be rising from West.

It's debatable...I don't think that Manning is head and shoulders above Brady like many here do. Manning is more of a cerebral quarterback and to some that makes him the greatest. To me it makes him unique but to argue that it makes him the best of all time is a stretch. His on-field results don't back up that kind of claim. Colts fans often make alot of excuses to qualify Peyton for G.O.A.T., if he was truly G.O.A.T. the excuse making would not be needed. The career would speak for itself. Nevertheless, I consider Peyton to be among the best to have played...I just don't think he's the G.O.A.T.

As far as post-season comparisons go, don't just look at quarterback rating but consider everything:

Brady 14-5; (3-1 in Super Bowls); 30 TDs 16 INT; 4,108 yards; 85.7 QB Rating

Manning 9-10 (1-1 in Super Bowls); 28 TD 19 INT; 5,164 yards; 87.5 QB Rating

That difference in QB rating is miniscule when compared to their overall post-season record and the number of championships won. Any G.O.A.T. candidate should be standing head & shoulders over his contemporaries at least. The stats don't bear out such claims.

[JaseAiden23]

I do believe he is the reason why he have that nice stadium we sit in every weekend. He is the reason why the Colts and Pats had one of the best games of all time.

I do believe he gave this hoosier some hope of football in a basketball state. Yea lets trade the guy who brought us all this and much more. I say we ride this pony til the legs fall off. There is no garuntees that A. Luck is going to be the next best thing to sliced bread anyways. IMO i say we draft him and trade him for some picks. Give Peyton some more weapons and for Gods sake help our D!

[Bond Shane]

It's debatable...I don't think that Manning is head and shoulders above Brady like many here do. Manning is more of a cerebral quarterback and to some that makes him the greatest. To me it makes him unique but to argue that it makes him the best of all time is a stretch. His on-field results don't back up that kind of claim. Colts fans often make alot of excuses to qualify Peyton for G.O.A.T., if he was truly G.O.A.T. the excuse making would not be needed. The career would speak for itself. Nevertheless, I consider Peyton to be among the best to have played...I just don't think he's the G.O.A.T.

As far as post-season comparisons go, don't just look at quarterback rating but consider everything:

Brady 14-5; (3-1 in Super Bowls); 30 TDs 16 INT; 4,108 yards; 85.7 QB Rating

Manning 9-10 (1-1 in Super Bowls); 28 TD 19 INT; 5,164 yards; 87.5 QB Rating

That difference in QB rating is miniscule when compared to their overall post-season record and the number of championships won. Any G.O.A.T. candidate should be standing head & shoulders over his contemporaries at least. The stats don't bear out such claims.

Coltsman1788 - Happy Sunday.

Again, i am not sure which part was hard to understand from my previous posting. I will give it another shot.

If you want to compare Manning to Brady - its individual comparison. In individual comparison we use Quarterback rating and Manning is ahead.

If you bring in all the SB victories and playoff victories as per your stats above, it involves 53 players, coaching and FO.

2 different scenarios.

We cant tell Brady is better than Manning or Manning is better than Brady based on Titles as it involves other factors.

Again, this year clearly explains what Manning has been carrying for all 13 yrs.

We all clearly know Patriots defense, special teams and coaching were way better than Colts over the 10 yrs period.

[jskinnz]

A physical has nothing to do with arm strength and accuracy. Which are the two big ??? on him right now.

Do you really think a team would invest the huge cost of his salary or the necessary draft picks to get him and not have some reasonable assurance that he is healthy?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Do you really think a team would invest the huge cost of his salary or the necessary draft picks to get him and not have some reasonable assurance that he is healthy?

It seems like we did. There is no way with the shape that he was in should have given him the contract that we did.

[hawkeyes]

IMO this is simply a stupid idea ... 1) IF Peyton is damaged goods we will get nothing for him. 2) By the looks of it, theres really not going to be any way to show that he is not damaged goods until next season.

[objectivecoltsfan]

IMO this is simply a stupid idea ... 1) IF Peyton is damaged goods we will get nothing for him. 2) By the looks of it, theres really not going to be any way to show that he is not damaged goods until next season.

This.

No one is going to give up a significant draft pick for a 36 year old coming off his 3rd neck surgery. If he is healthy, the Colts have to keep him because they will have a heck of a better chance of winning a Super Bowl with PM for the next 3 years then they would while trying to develop Luck.

[SilentHill]

Do you really think a team would invest the huge cost of his salary or the necessary draft picks to get him and not have some reasonable assurance that he is healthy?

Thats my whole point.... If you go back and read my original post I was saying how we wouldn't get what we needed to get rid of him.

[scorptile]

how do we know if luck isnt the second coming of ryan leaf. i still think the colts trade down and get lots of picks over the next three years and build a team not just draft one player that hides the problems were seeing. you dont need a "high end" QB to win superbowls. for those that think brady is a high end QB is fooling yourself. he was a late round pick for one and guess what it took the patriots one heck of a defense and video taping other teams to win 3 superbowls in 4 years. look at the teams that have won the superbowl the past decade. almost all have had steller defenses except for the colts whos defense became steller to win the sb. i want to see that a decent qb with a good o line, running game and one heck of a defense.

[SanAntonioColt]

From what I remember he also has embellished a few of his injuries, some in fact which his coach has offered a countering opinion on the seriousness of a couple of those injuries.

Kind of like the late Steve McNair who was injured on every play even handoffs to his RBs. Some guys just seem to crave the "warrior" label. Some guys take a real ding and just "rub some dirt on it" and go about their business.

[GoPats]

how do we know if luck isnt the second coming of ryan leaf. i still think the colts trade down and get lots of picks over the next three years and build a team not just draft one player that hides the problems were seeing. you dont need a "high end" QB to win superbowls. for those that think brady is a high end QB is fooling yourself. he was a late round pick for one and guess what it took the patriots one heck of a defense and video taping other teams to win 3 superbowls in 4 years. look at the teams that have won the superbowl the past decade. almost all have had steller defenses except for the colts whos defense became steller to win the sb. i want to see that a decent qb with a good o line, running game and one heck of a defense.

You must work in sanitation because you, sir, are an expert on dealing garbage. It's always the same thing with you.

Tell me all day that you think Manning is better than Brady, and I will listen to your opinion. There is no way to reach an indisputable consensus on that, so I've always said that there is a very valid argument that can be made to support that notion.

But tell me that Tom Brady is not a "high end" QB and you make yourself look unequivocally foolish.

[GoPats]

I've mostly observed this topic and the only thing I can conclude is that the Indy fan base is made up of two general "types" of people:

1. Indianapolis Colts fans

2. Peyton Manning fans

This is not a case of one being right and one being wrong... I've never rooted for a specific player, and if Brady was traded to the Jets tomorrow I would still be a Patriots fan. It's simply a matter of personal preference.

And relative to the comparison to Roethlisberger's long string of injuries... apples and oranges. Manning may not be able to throw a football next spring. At least not the way he would need to in order to play at a high level in the NFL. I would also think it's pretty easy to support the notion that a neck injury, and the possible consequences attached to it, is a much more serious thing than hurting a knee, a shoulder, an ankle, etc. We're talking about nerves regenerating when we're talking about the type of injury Manning has. Big Ben has been more banged up more often, but nothing that's really happened to him is going to threaten his health after football the way Manning's neck injury could impact his life in a negative way.

[The Fish]

Indianapolis Colts fan here, but it's strange because the success was in large part due to Manning so it's been one in the same for 13 years now that it's difficult to make a distinction.

I think you'll find that there maybe a majority of Peyton fan's though.

[GrizzColt]

If we do start over with Luck, he should feel right at home with the Colts. Receivers who don't stretch the field (Wayne) and who drop passes(Garcon).

[DILLIGAFER]

Indianapolis Colts fan here, but it's strange because the success was in large part due to Manning so it's been one in the same for 13 years now that it's difficult to make a distinction.

I think you'll find that there maybe a majority of Peyton fan's though.

Im a Peyton Manning fan. You have a problem with that? Im I not the "right" kinda fan for you? The only reason im a colts fan is because i followed Manning from Tennessee to Indy.

So you being strictly a colts fan makes your opinions on what should be done with Manning more credible than mine just because im a Manning fan first and a colts fan second? Uh, no.

[DILLIGAFER]

I've mostly observed this topic and the only thing I can conclude is that the Indy fan base is made up of two general "types" of people:

1. Indianapolis Colts fans

2. Peyton Manning fans

This is not a case of one being right and one being wrong... I've never rooted for a specific player, and if Brady was traded to the Jets tomorrow I would still be a Patriots fan. It's simply a matter of personal preference.

And relative to the comparison to Roethlisberger's long string of injuries... apples and oranges. Manning may not be able to throw a football next spring. At least not the way he would need to in order to play at a high level in the NFL. I would also think it's pretty easy to support the notion that a neck injury, and the possible consequences attached to it, is a much more serious thing than hurting a knee, a shoulder, an ankle, etc. We're talking about nerves regenerating when we're talking about the type of injury Manning has. Big Ben has been more banged up more often, but nothing that's really happened to him is going to threaten his health after football the way Manning's neck injury could impact his life in a negative way.

Omg this last sentence. Are you serious? Ben R hasnt had any injuries that will effect him after his football career? Huh so concussions, broken bones, ect have no effect on life after football?

sure, concussions are just a part of the game and create no ill effects on the brain... wow. Your last sentence in your post is the dumbest thing i think i have ever read on the forum.

[Bond Shane]

You must work in sanitation because you, sir, are an expert on dealing garbage. It's always the same thing with you.

Tell me all day that you think Manning is better than Brady, and I will listen to your opinion. There is no way to reach an indisputable consensus on that, so I've always said that there is a very valid argument that can be made to support that notion.

But tell me that Tom Brady is not a "high end" QB and you make yourself look unequivocally foolish.

GoPats - With due respect, whats the difference between 2001 to 2004 Pats and 2005 to 2011 Pats?.

One common factor is Brady and the first scenario 3 SBs and the second scenario none.

The answer to this will explain where Brady stands.

[wirymo]

Thanks to the media, ESPN, etc we are forced to believe that you have to win multiple SBs in order to be one of the greatest. This may be true in sports like golf, Nascar, even NBA. However, football is the ultimate team sport. It takes so many things to happen at once to even win a game. Anyone who has seen what PM has done game in and game out for the past 10+ years knows why he is quite better than Brady.

To sum it up, if I had a random team with random players and a random system, there's no one that I would rather have at QB than PM.

[GoPats]

Omg this last sentence. Are you serious? Ben R hasnt had any injuries that will effect him after his football career? Huh so concussions, broken bones, ect have no effect on life after football?

sure, concussions are just a part of the game and create no ill effects on the brain... wow. Your last sentence in your post is the dumbest thing i think i have ever read on the forum.

Your continuously antagonistic and overall sucky attitude toward anyone who disagrees with you aside...

Broken bones suck and yes, they lead to conditions like arthritis and chronic pain. I've broken seven bones and have two plates and 11 screws holding various parts of my skeleton together. When it rains I'm like a human barometer.

I've also been concussed three times in my life. And yes, concussions are serious business. Look at what's happening to Sidney Crosby right now. He could be done. In other cases, people fully recover from concussions.

Roethlisberger obviously has, or he would not have been cleared to play. And although the guy takes a beating and I'm sure will be a sore old man someday, he's not unique when it comes to football players. Many guys live with pain for the rest of their lives. Heck, MOST of them do.

But Manning's case is a bit different. He's had multiple surgeries to try to correct a degenerative condition causing his cervical bones to push on his spine and nerve roots. Reports have varied widely so none of us really know how bad it is or how quickly he's recovering, but if he still has numbness or tingling in his extremities due to nerve damage, that's serious, potentially permanent stuff. Are you aware that spinal cord injuries sometimes never fully heal? Or that Manning actually sought out stem cell therapy?

Look, I've been trolling Indy boards for a long time now. I've seen many different versions of you... I've seen them come and go. If you want to pick a fight with me every time I post on a topic, we can do that, but I assure you I have no interest in it. I don't take these things quite as seriously as you apparently do, but I notice it's not just me you have a problem with. So maybe try to relax a little and try to see that you're the common denominator in a lot of little spats here lately. It's unnecessary and I'm here to talk about football, not to argue with strangers.

[GoPats]

GoPats - With due respect, whats the difference between 2001 to 2004 Pats and 2005 to 2011 Pats?.

One common factor is Brady and the first scenario 3 SBs and the second scenario none.

The answer to this will explain where Brady stands.

I don't really understand your point. The 2001-2004 Patriots teams were more "complete" than any version since the end of that run, yes. But Brady has won two MVPs (including the first and only unanimous selection in league history), set several records, and has generally been stellar at his position since the Patriots' defense started to decline. You're also kind of ignoring the fact that New England was one crazy helmet catch away from completing what would have been the undisputed best season in NFL history only a few short years ago.

I've said it before but I'll repeat it...

I have absolutely zero issues with someone giving the opinion that Manning is better. It's a very arguable case. But if anyone says it's "not even debatable," that's homerism at its worst. Of course it's debatable. It will always be debatable, whether we like it or not.

I have my own opinion, of course, and thank you for sharing yours in a civil manner. I respect that.

[GoColts8818]

I don't really understand your point. The 2001-2004 Patriots teams were more "complete" than any version since the end of that run, yes. But Brady has won two MVPs (including the first and only unanimous selection in league history), set several records, and has generally been stellar at his position since the Patriots' defense started to decline. You're also kind of ignoring the fact that New England was one crazy helmet catch away from completing what would have been the undisputed best season in NFL history only a few short years ago.

I've said it before but I'll repeat it...

I have absolutely zero issues with someone giving the opinion that Manning is better. It's a very arguable case. But if anyone says it's "not even debatable," that's homerism at its worst. Of course it's debatable. It will always be debatable, whether we like it or not.

I have my own opinion, of course, and thank you for sharing yours in a civil manner. I respect that.

The difference is the defense. Brady if anything has gotten better the more they have to depend on him. The thing I find ironic about the Pats now is that they are built very much like the Manning teams that they beat in the playoffs. Dependent on a franchise QB and a defense that plays bend don't break.

[The Fish]

Im a Peyton Manning fan. You have a problem with that? Im I not the "right" kinda fan for you? The only reason im a colts fan is because i followed Manning from Tennessee to Indy.

So you being strictly a colts fan makes your opinions on what should be done with Manning more credible than mine just because im a Manning fan first and a colts fan second? Uh, no.

wow, a bit defensive, eh.

I'm not trying to tell you any of that, I just agreed with someone else who pointed out that there are two camp's.

[GoPats]

The difference is the defense. Brady if anything has gotten better the more they have to depend on him. The thing I find ironic about the Pats now is that they are built very much like the Manning teams that they beat in the playoffs. Dependent on a franchise QB and a defense that plays bend don't break.

I totally agree with that. What I think happened is that after the '06 AFC Championship Game, Belichick realized that he wasn't going to win with guys like Reche Caldwell and Doug Gabriel catching passes from Brady. So starting in '07 the team began loading up on offensive talent and took the reigns off Brady. Now, in lots of ways, they've become the Colts from the earlier part of the decade. If they can't outscore you, they can't beat you.

[jedi.creech]

Well.... I wish I knew what was going to happen with Manning.... The Colts Proshop FINALLY got the jersey I was wanting to get my daughter in size, and I am not sure if I should buy it now or not.... Hate not knowing his fate.... I'm sure once it's announce he will be staying or not, if he does stay the Jersey will be sold out on that size again LOL.... Been waiting 2 years for her size.

[GoPats]

Well.... I wish I knew what was going to happen with Manning.... The Colts Proshop FINALLY got the jersey I was wanting to get my daughter in size, and I am not sure if I should buy it now or not.... Hate not knowing his fate.... I'm sure once it's announce he will be staying or not, if he does stay the Jersey will be sold out on that size again LOL.... Been waiting 2 years for her size.

Buy it! It's not like he's being deported or something. Even if he doesn't make it back, he's still been the face of the Colts all these years!

[Daniel Bogh]

"....to put faith in some guy in college that doesn't even play in the SEC,..."

What does that have to do with anything?

I don't disagree with the spirit of what you are saying but that line alone will cause people not to take you seriously. It's way too biased.

You do realize that, historically, far more great QB's have come from out of the SEC than have come from within it, right?

D

[basketballsteve]

Depends on the offer(s) (is it a Cowboys trading Herchel Walker offer) what team(s) would Peyton go to, what coaches are being fired, where is Peyton in several months in terms of health and rehab.

I'm just saying if you make up your mind now to trade Peyton you do so with limited knowledge and it makes no sense to say that trading is or is not a good idea at this point.

[supremecoltsfan300]

"....to put faith in some guy in college that doesn't even play in the SEC,..."

What does that have to do with anything?

I don't disagree with the spirit of what you are saying but that line alone will cause people not to take you seriously. It's way too biased.

You do realize that, historically, far more great QB's have come from out of the SEC than have come from within it, right?

D

but the GOAT did come out of the sec

No but seriously i agree that more non-sec qbs have turned out to be great. the sec quarterbacks lately are just horrible, i.e. alabama and lsu quarterbacks.

[jedi.creech]

Buy it! It's not like he's being deported or something. Even if he doesn't make it back, he's still been the face of the Colts all these years!

Well if he retired I would still be happy having the Jersey for her, but if he is traded.... That's my worries about buying it.

[a06cc]

We'll find out next season what are moves will be. I don't care what Archie Manning had to say, Luck isn't ready to play in the NFL. So if we draft him he'll need about 2 or 3 years to get ready to play. Andrew Luck needs to work on his passing and 3 step drop. They aren't NFL fast enough. Even if Manning didn't like it, he better help him out. After Manning is done he can be the Colts QB coach and continue what we have here in Indy.

[fvantagio]

Will look for him when I next see Georgia play.

And Tyler Bray. Im interested to see how he does next year. He got injured this year, but when he was playing he doing so at a very high level. He is also a 6'6 QB from Tennessee with a laser rocket arm

[fvantagio]

Some guys take a real ding and just "rub some dirt on it" and go about their business.

"Please whatever you do, don't do that. It can lead to a serious infection. Just lay and bed and rest up. I don't know what kind brianiac came up with the whole dirt thing anyways."

[Bleedin Blue]

IMO this is simply a stupid idea ... 1) IF Peyton is damaged goods we will get nothing for him. 2) By the looks of it, theres really not going to be any way to show that he is not damaged goods until next season.

And what if he turns out to be damaged goods? Then we get nothing. I'm willing to bet teams would give a couple of decent draft picks just to take a chance on Peyton. If he looks hampered and inaccurate next year we get nothing.

[FireJimCaldwell]

And what if he turns out to be damaged goods? Then we get nothing. I'm willing to bet teams would give a couple of decent draft picks just to take a chance on Peyton. If he looks hampered and inaccurate next year we get nothing.

Why would they do that for a chance? What are "couple of decent draft picks" a 1 & 2 for a chance? No way.

It doesn't even take into consideration that as it stands right now that he CANT BE TRADED at all, and if he feels that the team wants to trade him, there would be zero reason for him to push back the due date of his option bonus? Why would he do that just so the Colts would weaken his new team by fleecing a couple of draft picks from them.

This Peyton Manning for this upcoming year ends one of three ways. 1) He retires. 2) we pick up the option bonus and he plays. 3) we do not pick up the option bonus and he's a free agent. Then we must decide what to do with the draft pick.

[Bleedin Blue]

Why would they do that for a chance? What are "couple of decent draft picks" a 1 & 2 for a chance? No way.

It doesn't even take into consideration that as it stands right now that he CANT BE TRADED at all, and if he feels that the team wants to trade him, there would be zero reason for him to push back the due date of his option bonus? Why would he do that just so the Colts would weaken his new team by fleecing a couple of draft picks from them.

This Peyton Manning for this upcoming year ends one of three ways. 1) He retires. 2) we pick up the option bonus and he plays. 3) we do not pick up the option bonus and he's a free agent. Then we must decide what to do with the draft pick.

Not true. There is a trade window on his current contract. Plus if you follow the comments on NFL Network you would have caught discussions on contract re-negotiations as well. There are several ways in which this could unfold...not just the three you have outlined.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Not true. There is a trade window on his current contract. Plus if you follow the comments on NFL Network you would have caught discussions on contract re-negotiations as well. There are several ways in which this could unfold...not just the three you have outlined.

Actually there isn't a trade window. Because his Option bonus is due before the new league year opens. A player can't be traded after the trade deadline until the new league year opens. There is no valid reason for him to renegotiate a deal so that he can be traded.