Let's Trade Peyton

[DILLIGAFER]

And look at my avatar if you think i dont like peyton. I have the upmost respect and admiration for the man. Go back and read my posts concerning Manning if you have any doubt on where i stand. You obviously havent read a darn thing i wrote over the this season about manning.

[jskinnz]

***Wrong. He has played with more injuries than Manning has over the years. Will it limit his years? Who knows. He hasnt hung his cleats up yet. Till either one does, its anyones GUESS.

Again completely pointless to Manning. Tell me Big Ben's injury that deals with regenerating a nerve in his throwning arm and his recovery from that.

You keep talking about how things are unsure with Luck. Tell me the certainty that anyone has that Manning returns to full health and performance.

[DILLIGAFER]

Again completely pointless to Manning. Tell me Big Ben's injury that deals with regenerating a nerve in his throwning arm and his recovery from that.

You keep talking about how things are unsure with Luck. Tell me the certainty that anyone has that Manning returns to full health and performance.

Let me try and simplify things down for you further..

As i stated, injuries happen. Rothlesberger has had alot, but know one knows how it will effect how long he will play in the NFL.. as we dont know how Mannings injury will effect how long he will play in the NFL. They have similarities. Regardless if you in particular see it or not.

I stated nothing to the effect of Mannings injury vs Lucks lack of NFL experience. I base it on Mannings NFL carrer minus his recent injuries VS Lucks NFL experience, which is none.

I would rather bet on Manning getting better and playing again, than on an unproven college QB that hasnt played a single snap in the NFL.

[KyFan18]

Neckbeard? :unsure:

Andrew Luck. Have you not noticed that he rocks a neckbeard?

[KyFan18]

Yes, trade Peyton to a team that is a QB short of winning a championship, e.g., San Fran. See if Andrew can duplicate Peyton's success with a talent-challenged team.

I thought I laid the sarcasm on thick enough that it would be obvious to all. Guess not, so I'll just say what I mean. DON'T trade Manning. DON'T draft Luck.

[BIGugly]

I thought I laid the sarcasm on thick enough that it would be obvious to all. Guess not, so I'll just say what I mean. DON'T trade Manning. DON'T draft Luck.

Hard to write that chiz isn't it? I've tried also, but just can't lay in on thick enough, I guess.

OBTW, KY, my roots are in KY. Parents, grandparents, zillion aunts and uncles, cuzzins, etc. I'm guessing you are a Tamme fan. He looks better all the time, expecially for a a guy who's a 'tweener. (TE/WR)..Gonna be here a looong time as Snow's successor at long snapper. He's all I hear about from my 'kin....

[KyFan18]

Hard to write that chiz isn't it? I've tried also, but just can't lay in on thick enough, I guess.

OBTW, KY, my roots are in KY. Parents, grandparents, zillion aunts and uncles, cuzzins, etc. I'm guessing you are a Tamme fan. He looks better all the time, expecially for a a guy who's a 'tweener. (TE/WR)..Gonna be here a looong time as Snow's successor at long snapper. He's all I hear about from my 'kin....

I am a big Tamme fan. Was ecstatic when he came to the Colts. I wish he could find a bigger niche in the passing game playing alongside Clark.

A lot of Hoosiers have Kentucky roots. I have two uncles and an aunt in Indiana as well.

[jskinnz]

Let me try and simplify things down for you further..

As i stated, injuries happen. Rothlesberger has had alot, but know one knows how it will effect how long he will play in the NFL.. as we dont know how Mannings injury will effect how long he will play in the NFL. They have similarities. Regardless if you in particular see it or not.

I stated nothing to the effect of Mannings injury vs Lucks lack of NFL experience. I base it on Mannings NFL carrer minus his recent injuries VS Lucks NFL experience, which is none.

I would rather bet on Manning getting better and playing again, than on an unproven college QB that hasnt played a single snap in the NFL.

To your last line - fair enough. But you seem to have this sentiment that those in favor of drafting Luck and turning the keys off the team over to him are completely ridiculous in their thinking and they most assuredly are not. If you look around, there are some very savvy football people who think that is exactly what the team should do. And that Luck is as sure a thing as any player to come into the league since Elway. That is some freaking high praise.

[BIGugly]

I have a suggestion.

Why don't we all calm down and stop reacting emotionally to this issue.

We don't know Manning's status. We don't know if he can come back, at what capacity. We don't know if he does come back for how long it will be. We don't know how Luck is going to do in the NFL, we don't know what offers may be on the table from what teams for the first pick. We don't technically know if we're going to get that first pick (I know, I know, but stranger things have happened in the NFL)

We do know that if Manning can't go, we have no real option at QB. We know that even with Manning, there are holes on this team that need to be addressed. We know that at some point very soon we will have to deal with the fact that Peyton Manning is not going to be our QB forever even if he does come back.

That points to drafting a QB this year. I don't really see any way around that. Now, that doesn't mean it has to be Luck, but the thought of going into next season with our current roster of QBs given the uncertainanty around Manning's neck is something that will keep me up at night (and it should keep YOU up at night too)

Get used to it. The media is gonna stir this chiz until April.

[DILLIGAFER]

To your last line - fair enough. But you seem to have this sentiment that those in favor of drafting Luck and turning the keys off the team over to him are completely ridiculous in their thinking and they most assuredly are not. If you look around, there are some very savvy football people who think that is exactly what the team should do. And that Luck is as sure a thing as any player to come into the league since Elway. That is some freaking high praise.

You will never get it. Holy crap. Again, for the last time, the statements in this thread are trade Manning get luck. I am against this. What i am for is keeping Manning, do not trade him AND draft luck! I have never once said i was against drafting him so dont put your words in my mouth. You once again have miss quoted me and others. And by the looks of it, will continue to do so because you refuse to thoroughly read post past and current. I am done trying to explain it. I think you do it to get a rise out of people.

[TN_Colts_Fan_18]

This really doesn't mean anything but just some fun facts about Ryan Leaf and Andrew Luck.

1.) Ryan Leaf was 6'5" 235 coming out of college. Andrew Luck is 6'4" 235

2.) Ryan Leaf played his college ball in the Pac-10. Luck plays in the Pac-12

3.) Leaf won the offensive player of the year in the Pac-10 in 1997. Luck won this year's offensive player of the year in the Pac-12.

4.) Leaf was predicted by many to be a better pro prospect than Manning back in the 1998 draft. Luck is predicted by many to come in a take Manning's job next season.

The Colts organization made the correct decision back in 98'. What will they do in 12'?

From what I saw from Luck over the very few games I have watched Stanford, he's a great QB, no doubt, but is he an NFL QB. There is a big difference, besides whenever a player plays in any conference other than the SEC it is difficult to determine how good they are. I live in the heart of the SEC and when I watch these other conferences play, they just look like an upper high school level compared to the South Eastern Conference.

[dn4192]

This really doesn't mean anything but just some fun facts about Ryan Leaf and Andrew Luck.

1.) Ryan Leaf was 6'5" 235 coming out of college. Andrew Luck is 6'4" 235

2.) Ryan Leaf played his college ball in the Pac-10. Luck plays in the Pac-12

3.) Leaf won the offensive player of the year in the Pac-10 in 1997. Luck won this year's offensive player of the year in the Pac-12.

4.) Leaf was predicted by many to be a better pro prospect than Manning back in the 1998 draft. Luck is predicted by many to come in a take Manning's job next season.

The Colts organization made the correct decision back in 98'. What will they do in 12'?

From what I saw from Luck over the very few games I have watched Stanford, he's a great QB, no doubt, but is he an NFL QB. There is a big difference, besides whenever a player plays in any conference other than the SEC it is difficult to determine how good they are. I live in the heart of the SEC and when I watch these other conferences play, they just look like an upper high school level compared to the South Eastern Conference.

I don't remember, but I don't think Leaf was in college that long, very short college career with some great numbers and a great arm and a .2 cent brain. Wonder what Leaf scored on teh Wonderlick

[oldunclemark]

Andrew Luck. Have you not noticed that he rocks a neckbeard?

I dont really look at Andrew much except when he has his helmet on...

You realize he's going to have to shave if he comes to Indianapolis.

This is republican-land . We dont want no long-haired hippie freaks here

[BIGugly]

This really doesn't mean anything but just some fun facts about Ryan Leaf and Andrew Luck.

1.) Ryan Leaf was 6'5" 235 coming out of college. Andrew Luck is 6'4" 235

2.) Ryan Leaf played his college ball in the Pac-10. Luck plays in the Pac-12

3.) Leaf won the offensive player of the year in the Pac-10 in 1997. Luck won this year's offensive player of the year in the Pac-12.

4.) Leaf was predicted by many to be a better pro prospect than Manning back in the 1998 draft. Luck is predicted by many to come in a take Manning's job next season.

The Colts organization made the correct decision back in 98'. What will they do in 12'?

From what I saw from Luck over the very few games I have watched Stanford, he's a great QB, no doubt, but is he an NFL QB. There is a big difference, besides whenever a player plays in any conference other than the SEC it is difficult to determine how good they are. I live in the heart of the SEC and when I watch these other conferences play, they just look like an upper high school level compared to the South Eastern Conference.

Who in the SEC do you like at QB? And it doesn't have to be a senior. Our pick coud warrant trades for picks next year too.

[jaycat76]

I have a suggestion.

Why don't we all calm down and stop reacting emotionally to this issue.

We don't know Manning's status. We don't know if he can come back, at what capacity. We don't know if he does come back for how long it will be. We don't know how Luck is going to do in the NFL, we don't know what offers may be on the table from what teams for the first pick. We don't technically know if we're going to get that first pick (I know, I know, but stranger things have happened in the NFL)

We do know that if Manning can't go, we have no real option at QB. We know that even with Manning, there are holes on this team that need to be addressed. We know that at some point very soon we will have to deal with the fact that Peyton Manning is not going to be our QB forever even if he does come back.

That points to drafting a QB this year. I don't really see any way around that. Now, that doesn't mean it has to be Luck, but the thought of going into next season with our current roster of QBs given the uncertainanty around Manning's neck is something that will keep me up at night (and it should keep YOU up at night too)

I agree with fundamentals of this statement. We need an insurance policy at QB. I believe that RG3 is the perfect candidate. The kid obviously has the talent and the numbers to justify it. If Andrew Luck was not an option we all know that Griffin would be the first QB taken. As a current student at Kansas State University I have had the pleasure of watching RG3 in person in two contests against my beloved wildcats and I can say that he is undoubtedly the real deal. He can do it all and he really is a pass the ball first QB who just happens to have track stud speed. He would be a great option for the Colts for multiple reasons. First and foremost he would be willing to wait for the starting job behind Manning and I'm sure would learn a great deal while doing so. I say this with supreme confidence because I know for a fact that Griffin has said he would prefer to earn his law degree instead of going into the draft. Now it would be prudent for Griffin to have it made clear to him that he could get paid a lot of money, not exactly Luck type money, to learn from Manning for the next few seasons while he continued working toward his law degree. Why not? Is it a crazy concept? Why can't an intelligent individual like Griffin be on an NFL roster while working towards his law degree? Law school or no school, either way I do believe that RG3 could be convinced to come play in the NFL. Most importantly I believe that he could be convinced to wait and learn from one of the best to ever play. I truly believe that the Colts will be able to trade the no. 1 pick to Washington for the no. 5 pick and some other incentives, and be able to land Griffin with said no. 5 pick. (this based off draft projections as of right now). This would also allow for Indy to save some money and still have a great insurance policy behind Manning. With this saved money the organization can look at working on some new contracts for some of our key veterans that are scheduled to become free agents. Obviously this scenario also allows for the franchise to keep the face of this franchise where he belongs. #18 should finish his career in Indianapolis, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[Flash7]

I dont really look at Andrew much except when he has his helmet on...

You realize he's going to have to shave if he comes to Indianapolis.

This is republican-land . We dont want no long-haired hippie freaks here

Curtis Painter's a "long haired hippie freak" and you're right, we don't want him around.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't remember, but I don't think Leaf was in college that long, very short college career with some great numbers and a great arm and a .2 cent brain. Wonder what Leaf scored on teh Wonderlick

Leaf scored a 27.. One point below Peyton's 28.

He started 2 years. Pac 10 championship.. Came out before his junior year. Main difference is Luck played more in his first year.

http://www.nflstatanalysis.net/2011/03/qb-wonderlic-scores.html

[BIGugly]

Not sure who is local and who isn't. But one thing Polian said on one his weekly radio/TV spots when asked about Leaf vs Payton was that it was a "no brainer" after interviewing each player. He said that Leaf was aloof and had the "what are ya gonna do for me" attitude. Manning game in with a notebook and wanted to know how soon he could get a play book if they drafted him. In jest he told Polian if he didn't draft him, he would kick the Colst butt every year they played against him.

Now I have no way of knowing how much of this is absolutely true, but I did hear Polian report it this way when questioned about it a couple of years later.

Point is, it was not a tough decsion based on what the Colts FO knew vs what the pundits THOUGHT they knew.

I gotta hunch about this with Luck. I've only seen him play twice. He is impressive, but is he the second coming? I'll go with the Colts FO on this one. They are saying they have not even come close to deciding what they are gonna do. I've heard Polian and Irsay both say this. I don't think they lie, but they play a pretty mean game of poker face when it comes to the draft.

I'm just sayin'....

[JoKeR]

The Colts can't trade Manning, they would have to release him. Colts would get nothing out of it except alot of cap room.

I don't want the Colts to release Manning and don't think it will happen anyway. I believe the Colts will either...

A-Draft Luck and keep Manning

B-Trade the 1st pick for multiple picks and still draft 1 of the top QBs like Barkley and keep Manning.

Both contingent that Manning is cleared to play and doesn't retire either.

Just because the media is talking ( out there...) doesn't mean the likely hood increases.

And if Manning is healthy, the Colts will draft a QB that could start week1, whether its Luck or not.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Not sure who is local and who isn't. But one thing Polian said on one his weekly radio/TV spots when asked about Leaf vs Payton was that it was a "no brainer" after interviewing each player. He said that Leaf was aloof and had the "what are ya gonna do for me" attitude. Manning game in with a notebook and wanted to know how soon he could get a play book if they drafted him. In jest he told Polian if he didn't draft him, he would kick the Colst butt every year they played against him.

Now I have no way of knowing how much of this is absolutely true, but I did hear Polian report it this way when questioned about it a couple of years later.

Point is, it was not a tough decsion based on what the Colts FO knew vs what the pundits THOUGHT they knew.

I gotta hunch about this with Luck. I've only seen him play twice. He is impressive, but is he the second coming? I'll go with the Colts FO on this one. They are saying they have not even come close to deciding what they are gonna do. I've heard Polian and Irsay both say this. I don't think they lie, but they play a pretty mean game of poker face when it comes to the draft.

I'm just sayin'....

I've heard some of the same stories.. But I think he told Irsay the Kicking of his tail for the next 15 years. I think Leaf missed a meeting with Mora at the combine, while Manning more or less interviewed them. He was the same way when he was recruited at Tennessee, in a book, Archie said he fell asleep while Peyton grilled Cutcliffe and Fulmer. I've also read where in QB meetings Manning would answer for Helton, or the other QB's and they would have to tell Manning to shut the blanks up and that Cutcliffe had to be more prepared for those meetings because Peyton would come in with a legal pad full of questions.

Luck is benefited by the WCO. If we draft him, I hope we make that change to the WCO whether he sits for 2-3 years behind Manning or not.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The Colts can't trade Manning, they would have to release him. Colts would get nothing out of it except alot of cap room.

I don't want the Colts to release Manning and don't think it will happen anyway. I believe the Colts will either...

A-Draft Luck and keep Manning

B-Trade the 1st pick for multiple picks and still draft 1 of the top QBs like Barkley and keep Manning.

Both contingent that Manning is cleared to play and doesn't retire either.

Just because the media is talking ( out there...) doesn't mean the likely hood increases.

And if Manning is healthy, the Colts will draft a QB that could start week1, whether its Luck or not.

He will still end up counting more towards the cap than the amount of cap savings we get for 2012.

[BIGugly]

I've heard some of the same stories.. But I think he told Irsay the Kicking of his tail for the next 15 years. I think Leaf missed a meeting with Mora at the combine, while Manning more or less interviewed them. He was the same way when he was recruited at Tennessee, in a book, Archie said he fell asleep while Peyton grilled Cutcliffe and Fulmer. I've also read where in QB meetings Manning would answer for Helton, or the other QB's and they would have to tell Manning to shut the blanks up and that Cutcliffe had to be more prepared for those meetings because Peyton would come in with a legal pad full of questions.

Luck is benefited by the WCO. If we draft him, I hope we make that change to the WCO whether he sits for 2-3 years behind Manning or not.

Can't come up with "WCO" expression. What it is?

[JoKeR]

He will still end up counting more towards the cap than the amount of cap savings we get for 2012.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Just reaffirms my opinion. Don't drop Manning!

[JoKeR]

He will still end up counting more towards the cap than the amount of cap savings we get for 2012.

Just to make sure I understand you. If the Colts cut Manning, is there a cap penalty?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Just to make sure I understand you. If the Colts cut Manning, is there a cap penalty?

Yes...

It is complicated

We will see an acceleration of the signing bonus(that he received prior to training camp), 20 million- the 4 million used this year which would amount to 16 million of dead space which will be helped out due to us carrying 5.6 million of the (option bonus yet to be paid), We've allotted a portion of that this year, so we will get a 5.6 credit towards the 16 million which in the end would result in a 10.4 dead cap space hit for 2012 if he is released.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Can't come up with "WCO" expression. What it is?

West Coast offense.

[BIGugly]

West Coast offense.

Aw, jeez....

Well, that's gonna require a new coaching staff.

That's a positive thing.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Aw, jeez....

Well, that's gonna require a new coaching staff.

That's a positive thing.

No..

That is a blessing!

[supremecoltsfan300]

No..

That is a blessing!

Aw, jeez....

Well, that's gonna require a new coaching staff.

That's a positive thing.

getting rid of Caldwell would be a huge mistake. We can't win without that trademark "blank stare". Wait, maybe it's we can't win WITH that blank stare....

[jedi.creech]

Was having an Interesting conversation with a friend of mine... Basically was laid out like this... If Manning was released (cause of cap and Manning not wanting to cripple his "next" team trade is out of question), and he goes to an AFC team example Jets. Two or three years from now (it would take this long to happen cause Colts only addressing the QB position in this years draft will kill us due to so many holes that needed addressed wasn't) if manning new team faces Colts in playoffs... Which team you rooting for? Now this is "assuming" Luck isn't a complete flop, and can some how find a way to get this Swiss cheese team to a playoff before Manning does decide to retire

[icf]

gotta laugh at all those people who try to make Luck out to be the next Ryan Leaf.

He's got as much a chance of being the next Leaf as he does of being the next Manning.

Some people here need to realize that there will come a day...be it in 3 months, 3 years or sometime that Manning WILL NOT BE THE QB OF THE COTLS ANYMORE!!!!!! I think a few of you are going to jump off a bridge the 1st time you realize that Manning isn't ever going to play for the Colts anymore.

Everyone moves on and it's the job of the organization to plan for their replacement so the team doesnt falter to bad when it happens. The 2012 draft may not be the time to take Manning's replacement, we dont know for sure yet, but that time is coming very soon.

[KyFan18]

Who in the SEC do you like at QB? And it doesn't have to be a senior. Our pick coud warrant trades for picks next year too.

I know you weren't asking me, but I like Aaron Murray of Georgia. Only a sophomore.

[SilentHill]

I wouldn't be as upset as I thought if we trade him, but I also don't think we get the bounty we need for him. I mean if we trade him that throws up a MAJOR red flag to any team that he is potentially not as good as he use to be.

[Coltsman1788]

Why do people think Peyton needs more championships to cement his legacy? How many SB titles does Dan Marino or Brett Farve have? Elway only has 2, Joe Namath only has 1.

Also there is no guarentee should Peyton go to another team that they would make it to a SB let alone win.

The reason is that Tom Brady is Peyton's contemporary. He has three rings, 4 AFC Titles, the all-time TD single-season record, and an undefeated regular season under his belt. If you stack that up against what Peyton has achieved with the Colts, who do you think comes out ahead? I think some Colts fans are obsessed with Peyton being perceived as being the greatest ever to play the game. But Brady makes it highly debatable whether Peyton is even the best of his era. Thus, some Colts fans feel an added urgency for Peyton to make one last flurry to cement this claim as time ticks away. It doesn't really matter to me personally if Peyton is the G.O.A.T., but some here seem obsessed by it.

[BIGugly]

I know you weren't asking me, but I like Aaron Murray of Georgia. Only a sophomore.

Will look for him when I next see Georgia play.

[jskinnz]

You will never get it. Holy crap. Again, for the last time, the statements in this thread are trade Manning get luck. I am against this. What i am for is keeping Manning, do not trade him AND draft luck! I have never once said i was against drafting him so dont put your words in my mouth. You once again have miss quoted me and others. And by the looks of it, will continue to do so because you refuse to thoroughly read post past and current. I am done trying to explain it. I think you do it to get a rise out of people.

I get it completely. It is not hard to understand. My entire and simple premise is that there is rational thought behind the idea of trading Manning.

[jskinnz]

I wouldn't be as upset as I thought if we trade him, but I also don't think we get the bounty we need for him. I mean if we trade him that throws up a MAJOR red flag to any team that he is potentially not as good as he use to be.

Uhh, not really. First of all Manning would have to pass a physical to whichever team traded for him so if they decided he was not healthy enough, trade gets rescinded.

But even before that, what it really says is they have decided to go Luck's direction and that does not necessarily speak to Manning's health but more so to the team's desire to start their future now.

[SilentHill]

Uhh, not really. First of all Manning would have to pass a physical to whichever team traded for him so if they decided he was not healthy enough, trade gets rescinded.

But even before that, what it really says is they have decided to go Luck's direction and that does not necessarily speak to Manning's health but more so to the team's desire to start their future now.

A physical has nothing to do with arm strength and accuracy. Which are the two big ??? on him right now.

[BIGugly]

A physical has nothing to do with arm strength and accuracy. Which are the two big ?? on him right now.

There, fixed it for ya.

[vitoaf27]

Leaf scored a 27.. One point below Peyton's 28.

He started 2 years. Pac 10 championship.. Came out before his junior year. Main difference is Luck played more in his first year.

http://www.nflstatan...lic-scores.html

According to http://espn.go.com/nfl/feature/video/_/id/7303334/ultimate-scouting-report, under the "Measureables," Peyton and Eli both tied for the NFL high of 39 on the Wonderlic. This is coming from ESPN, so chances are it's legit.