play calls

[OLD FAN MAN]

some of you who are really into schemes and systems. what plays should we use to try to move the ball running and passing with our weak o-line. somethings that pep is not trying?

[21isSuperman]

When we get blitzed a lot, I would like to see us throw more short passes.  Trent has show himself to be reliable as a pass catcher, so I would like to see us use him a bit in the screen game.  I would also like to see some moving pockets/rollouts from Luck.  If it's 3rd and 1, we can go with all of our guys on the line and run a rollout.  Luck has speed, so we could probably pick up the first down off a play action.  However, it should be noted that a lot of this stuff is based on what happens in a game.  You can't make a blanket statement and say we should do one thing because the game might dictate that something else is more beneficial.  A lot of times, it's not so much "we should run this instead", but rather "why did we run that?", as was highly evident in the Cowboys game.  3 straight runs to start the game?  I understand the principle behind running on 3rd and long, but it's the start of the game.  Set a tone, take a deep shot, do something to get the defense on their heels or at least keep them honest.  Then we ran a few screen passes to the receivers that I didn't understand.

 

I'm not going to say I know more about schemes and plays than Pep, and hindsight is always 20/20 (if those 3 runs netted us a first down, I wouldn't be saying anything), but there are some things that really leave me to question what the coaches are thinking or how they are missing something so obvious.  With that said, the coaches know more about our players, our schemes, and the tendencies of our opponents, so Pep probably has reasons for what he calls.

[OLD FAN MAN]

When we get blitzed a lot, I would like to see us throw more short passes.  Trent has show himself to be reliable as a pass catcher, so I would like to see us use him a bit in the screen game.  I would also like to see some moving pockets/rollouts from Luck.  If it's 3rd and 1, we can go with all of our guys on the line and run a rollout.  Luck has speed, so we could probably pick up the first down off a play action.  However, it should be noted that a lot of this stuff is based on what happens in a game.  You can't make a blanket statement and say we should do one thing because the game might dictate that something else is more beneficial.  A lot of times, it's not so much "we should run this instead", but rather "why did we run that?", as was highly evident in the Cowboys game.  3 straight runs to start the game?  I understand the principle behind running on 3rd and long, but it's the start of the game.  Set a tone, take a deep shot, do something to get the defense on their heels or at least keep them honest.  Then we ran a few screen passes to the receivers that I didn't understand.

 

I'm not going to say I know more about schemes and plays than Pep, and hindsight is always 20/20 (if those 3 runs netted us a first down, I wouldn't be saying anything), but there are some things that really leave me to question what the coaches are thinking or how they are missing something so obvious.  With that said, the coaches know more about our players, our schemes, and the tendencies of our opponents, so Pep probably has reasons for what he calls.

pep may be saving some of this stuff for the playoffs

[James Ducheteau]

Lol, I keep thinking the whole team is saving stuff for back the playoffs, but then again sometimes i still believe in Santa Clause to, so maybe in just a fanatic . 

[Restored]

I think one that needs to be called more is rollouts/zone QB reads (similar to the plays that Seattle calls for RW). Heck, even the Bengals call designed QB runs for Andy Dalton and Luck is a significantly better athlete.

[krunk]

My main call is for more high percentage passing.  Getting the ball out quickly to backs swinging out of the backfield for an easy catch and run of 5 to 7 yards a pop,  Well set up screens that can go for at least 5 to 6 yards,  quick hitting crossing routes that you can take on a catch and run for 5 to 10 yards or more, bootlegs off power plays where Luck has the option to quickly pick up 5 yards or more on a run or dump it off to a back or tight end for some extra run after the catch.  We need more quick passing plays that allow us to control the TOP through the air.  I also think we have to become much better at catching the football.  All of the drops are killing us lately.

 

Everything I listed above is what will take some of the pressure off of Luck needing to seek the home run ball all the time while standing behind a swiss cheese O Line. We can start the game off with short high percentage plays that control TOP, get them tired out and then switch to the deep passing game as we progress.   I think playing this way will also give us the chance to run more confidently out of managable running situations instead of having to run on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 7.  I feel it will also be easier to open up holes for the ground game after the D lineman have been out there running around stuck on the field chasing those short passing plays. 

 

To me it's very similar to what the Seahawks do behind their line (which I think is honestly not all that good) except we would add in more of a deep element as the game progresses.  In my opinion this is the key to getting back to being major ball hogs like we used to be. It makes more sense to me especially when you look at the fact that we have more possesion style receivers than we do home run hitters.  It makes more sense to me to build the offense around the possesion game first and then progress into the deep passing element as the game moves along.   I feel this is the route we need to go in my opinion.

[Smonroe]

When I watch Seattle I keep thinking - our O line is as good (or as poor) as theirs, our QB, WRs, and TEs are probably better. Okay, we don't match up at RB, I'll give them that.

So why are their plays sharper? I know its not that simple, but our O should be as efficient as theirs.

[Restored]

When I watch Seattle I keep thinking - our O line is as good (or as poor) as theirs, our QB, WRs, and TEs are probably better. Okay, we don't match up at RB, I'll give them that.

So why are their plays sharper? I know its not that simple, but our O should be as efficient as theirs.

 

Because their running game actually works and teams can't just sit back there and tee off on RW like they do Luck.

[Smonroe]

Because their running game actually works and teams can't just sit back there and tee off on RW like they do Luck.

Their running game doesn't work just because of Lynch. In fact, in usually doesn't get going until later in the game.

Obviously a lot of their O works because of their defense, which helps in putting the opposing D back on the field.

As I said, I know it's not simple. I still think our O line schemes aren't accounting for deficiencies. The guys just can't execute the designed blocks.

It's like the definition of insanity. We keep running out of the same sets expecting different results.

[texascolt]

I think we should use the hurry up offence.

[krunk]

When I watch Seattle I keep thinking - our O line is as good (or as poor) as theirs, our QB, WRs, and TEs are probably better. Okay, we don't match up at RB, I'll give them that.

So why are their plays sharper? I know its not that simple, but our O should be as efficient as theirs.

 

 

I think they run so many plays that control the TOP keeping them in short and manageable that teams eventually tire out and the running lanes become bigger.  Plus the added element of Russel Wilson scrambling for first downs it's a really big test on the opposing teams stamina.  They also have a zone running scheme versus our man blocking scheme, although I think regardless of scheme you can still build the same results with the right plays. 

[Restored]

Their running game doesn't work just because of Lynch. In fact, in usually doesn't get going until later in the game.

Obviously a lot of their O works because of their defense, which helps in putting the opposing D back on the field.

As I said, I know it's not simple. I still think our O line schemes aren't accounting for deficiencies. The guys just can't execute the designed blocks.

It's like the definition of insanity. We keep running out of the same sets expecting different results.

 

I didn't say it worked because of Lynch. I agree that their defensive play contributes to the success of their offense as they go hand in hand. However, I think at the end of the day the lack of continuity as a result of benching/injuries as well as the lack of talent is really what has hurt the Colts offensive line and not so much their scheme.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

I would just like to see a pass CAUGHT for a change

[Gavin]

When I watch Seattle I keep thinking - our O line is as good (or as poor) as theirs, our QB, WRs, and TEs are probably better. Okay, we don't match up at RB, I'll give them that.

So why are their plays sharper? I know its not that simple, but our O should be as efficient as theirs.

multiple reasons to this question. I'll just say play design and execution on BOTH sides of the ball......cant get down 14-21 points and expect to run the ball. At the same time ya cant run the ball into the side of the defense thats overloaded and expect alot off success

[tomloge]

I'm not into schemes and systems, but have noticed that we are just incredibly predictable, on both offense and defense.  Especially on offense.   It was like that many years ago too with the Colts.  Maybe it's just an organizational thing, I don't know.  

[Smonroe]

I think they run so many plays that control the TOP keeping them in short and manageable that teams eventually tire out and the running lanes become bigger.  Plus the added element of Russel Wilson scrambling for first downs it's a really big test on the opposing teams stamina.  They also have a zone running scheme versus our man blocking scheme, although I think regardless of scheme you can still build the same results with the right plays. 

 

When you look at our failed running plays, and there's plenty to chose from, you'll either see a missed assignment or mixed up block, if you know what I mean.  The missed assignments are on the players IF you think it's possible that the player has the ability to make the block.  

 

That's what I don't understand.  And I'm not expert on line play.  But it seems pretty simple to me that if your linemen aren't capable of pulling, or swinging for a needed block, then you need to change up the line schemes.

 

I get it that we've had so much inconsistency with the interior line that they haven't been able to build up a rapport with each other.  Then maybe you have to simplify the schemes.  

 

/rant over/

[krunk]

When you look at our failed running plays, and there's plenty to chose from, you'll either see a missed assignment or mixed up block, if you know what I mean.  The missed assignments are on the players IF you think it's possible that the player has the ability to make the block.  

 

That's what I don't understand.  And I'm not expert on line play.  But it seems pretty simple to me that if your linemen aren't capable of pulling, or swinging for a needed block, then you need to change up the line schemes.

 

I get it that we've had so much inconsistency with the interior line that they haven't been able to build up a rapport with each other.  Then maybe you have to simplify the schemes.  

 

/rant over/

 

 

That's another aspect of the execution issues we've been having.   Hey I like simple so I wouldn't be against that either if it will help.

[krunk]

When you look at our failed running plays, and there's plenty to chose from, you'll either see a missed assignment or mixed up block, if you know what I mean.  The missed assignments are on the players IF you think it's possible that the player has the ability to make the block.  

 

That's what I don't understand.  And I'm not expert on line play.  But it seems pretty simple to me that if your linemen aren't capable of pulling, or swinging for a needed block, then you need to change up the line schemes.

 

I get it that we've had so much inconsistency with the interior line that they haven't been able to build up a rapport with each other.  Then maybe you have to simplify the schemes.  

 

/rant over/

 

 

I also think some of the runs that we do well, for some unknown reason we barely use the play.  For example I think we always make good gains using those off balance lines where we are running the counter tre/trap.  We ran well against the Eagles and the Jaguars using that and then all of a sudden we stopped.  Then we broke it out again against the Texans and Boom and Trent were gashing the Texans D late in the game.  Leaves me scratching my head sometimes.

 

Also I think we can set some good short passing plays and bootlegs up off those runs to control the TOP and keep things short and managable.  Problem is we never make much effort to take advantage.  I'm just not quite sure what has happened to a lot of the style that I saw Pep using with this offense when I watched them at Stanford.  It's more of a Bruce Arians style system now to me and I don't think it fits the reality of this offensive line.

 

I'm not saying we need to scrap the deep game, but we need to infuse the offense with more short passing plays that keep us in managable down and distance.  We should be able to run the ball well enough to pick up the first downs in those situations.  From there we can play action off those runs with a mix of long and short passes.

[Smonroe]

I also think some of the runs that we do well, for some unknown reason we barely use the play.  For example I think we always make good gains using those off balance lines where we are running the counter tre/trap.  We ran well against the Eagles and the Jaguars using that and then all of a sudden we stopped.  Then we broke it out again against the Texans and Boom and Trent were gashing the Texans D late in the game.  Leaves me scratching my head sometimes.

 

Also I think we can set some good short passing plays and bootlegs up off those runs to control the TOP and keep things short and managable.  Problem is we never make much effort to take advantage.  I'm just not quite sure what has happened to a lot of the style that I saw Pep using with this offense when I watched them at Stanford.  It's more of a Bruce Arians style system now to me and I don't think it fits the reality of this offensive line.

 

I'm not saying we need to scrap the deep game, but we need to infuse the offense with more short passing plays that keep us in managable down and distance.  We should be able to run the ball well enough to pick up the first downs in those situations.  From there we can play action off those runs with a mix of long and short passes.

I've come to accept that we don't have a good D and just hope we get some breaks and hold them under 30.

But we know the offense is under achieving. To your point, I often find myself saying "First Downs!" There's nothing wrong with a six yard checkdown, and moving the ball slowly down the field using all three downs. God knows it's done to us enough.

[krunk]

I've come to accept that we don't have a good D and just hope we get some breaks and hold them under 30.

But we know the offense is under achieving. To your point, I often find myself saying "First Downs!" There's nothing wrong with a six yard checkdown, and moving the ball slowly down the field using all three downs. God knows it's done to us enough.

 

 

Exactly!  Especially when you see how effective Herron is in the passing game.  Guy seems to break for 15 to 22 yards each time we shoot him the ball on a check down.  Certainly at least 5 to 10 yards.

[krunk]

I've come to accept that we don't have a good D and just hope we get some breaks and hold them under 30.

But we know the offense is under achieving. To your point, I often find myself saying "First Downs!" There's nothing wrong with a six yard checkdown, and moving the ball slowly down the field using all three downs. God knows it's done to us enough.

 

I think the D is decent depending on the style of offense the opponent brings, and personnel.  Or as Venturi labels it a "context defense".  I don't like this defense at all against Pittsburgh because they've got multiple ways to stop our blitzing and they have fast WRs across the board combined with a strong running game, plus Big Ben running around to avoid the blitz.  Maybe it sounds crazy, but I actually have more faith in them against New England as long as we continue to stop the run like we've been doing as of late.  I think we match up better with their WR personnel as they are mostly possesion type guys, we've gotten good pass rush against them, and Brady is mostly a sitting duck although he moves well in the pocket.  I think it's a group that definitely needs to be supported by good offensive play against some of the better opponents to get the W.

[krunk]

Pep Hamilton on the run game:

 

“We got to work at it.

“We’ve got to try and improve it and I’ve got to find schemes that have a chance.”

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Get-Two-Starters-Back-To-Practice-Dwayne-Allen-Likely-To-Miss-Regular-Season-Finale/b1d0cb78-2b56-4d8e-912a-ec6933d7e9cd
 

[sfergson727]

Pep is the master of the understatement.  Same old mantra, same lack of results.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Pep Hamilton on the run game:

 

“We got to work at it.

“We’ve got to try and improve it and I’ve got to find schemes that have a chance.”

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Get-Two-Starters-Back-To-Practice-Dwayne-Allen-Likely-To-Miss-Regular-Season-Finale/b1d0cb78-2b56-4d8e-912a-ec6933d7e9cd

 

we are depending on pep to move the ball with this weak o-line, come up with some things pep if you are reading this, show us what you can do with a weak o-line

[krunk]

They seem to be really intent on establishing the ground game, I'm hoping against Tennessee we will get to see a good dose of Tipton running the football.  I really wish they would get him more involved on game day along with these new running plays(Pep is working on) that fit what our guys can execute best.  It's the playoffs, you might as well use all 3 backs in some capacity, same way the Pats use Blount, Bolden/Gray, Vereen.

[krunk]

The best way for the Colts to win in the playoffs will be with Luck’s arm, but don’t think they’re going to completely abandon the run just yet.

“I’ve got to find a way schematically to come up with ways to put our backs in a position to where they can feature their talents,” Hamilton said. “They can get into the secondary and make a guy miss. They have one guy to avoid and make miss as opposed to two or three guys. We’ll do that. We’ll do that. At the same time, we’re going to be able to do whatever we need to do to get first downs, score touchdowns and it’s got to start this Sunday.”

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/

[HarryTheCat]

I'd run the play where we tell Pep that the game has been moved to Sunday night, and that he can sleep in late.  Then let Luck call his own plays.

[krunk]

My main call is for more high percentage passing.  Getting the ball out quickly to backs swinging out of the backfield for an easy catch and run of 5 to 7 yards a pop,  Well set up screens that can go for at least 5 to 6 yards,  quick hitting crossing routes that you can take on a catch and run for 5 to 10 yards or more, bootlegs off power plays where Luck has the option to quickly pick up 5 yards or more on a run or dump it off to a back or tight end for some extra run after the catch.  We need more quick passing plays that allow us to control the TOP through the air.  I also think we have to become much better at catching the football.  All of the drops are killing us lately.

 

Everything I listed above is what will take some of the pressure off of Luck needing to seek the home run ball all the time while standing behind a swiss cheese O Line. We can start the game off with short high percentage plays that control TOP, get them tired out and then switch to the deep passing game as we progress.   I think playing this way will also give us the chance to run more confidently out of managable running situations instead of having to run on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 7.  I feel it will also be easier to open up holes for the ground game after the D lineman have been out there running around stuck on the field chasing those short passing plays. 

 

To me it's very similar to what the Seahawks do behind their line (which I think is honestly not all that good) except we would add in more of a deep element as the game progresses.  In my opinion this is the key to getting back to being major ball hogs like we used to be. It makes more sense to me especially when you look at the fact that we have more possesion style receivers than we do home run hitters.  It makes more sense to me to build the offense around the possesion game first and then progress into the deep passing element as the game moves along.   I feel this is the route we need to go in my opinion.

 

39m

Mike Wells @MikeWellsNFL

The Colts exchanged the deep ball for shorter passes to keep Andrew Luck from getting hit late in the season http://t.co/xkuzyaxZgw

 

 

 

Just like I had been saying.  I xpect this to continue in the playoffs as well.

[ColtStronger]

some of you who are really into schemes and systems. what plays should we use to try to move the ball running and passing with our weak o-line. somethings that pep is not trying?

IDK much about schemes and a whole lot about playbooks, but I love the pulling guard, but it's hard to do because our interior sucks.  I love seeing DA block as a full back, but I definitely think Pep needs to run a lot more read option plays.  At least 4-7 plays a game, to keep it part of the gameplan and it would make a huge effect on running different plays out of the same package.  I think we need more mis direction plays.  Perhaps fake a pitch to boom but having TY/Moncrief/Cribbs crossing the formation and toss it to them. 

 

It just seems that Pep thinks we can line up with opposing teams let everyone know what were doing and execute it properly.  It's funny his "sneaky" plays are so obvious...  I was watching the Titans game with a friend Colts were on the 5.  Here are the main scenarios that call.  RB up the middle or PA pass to Coby Fleener or the RB.  I say watch this PA fake to the weakside where Coby Fleener is wide open.  What happens exactly that.  I catch myself saying, watch this run get stuffed in the backfield from the interior getting blown up.  Im definitely not the brightest crayon in the box but if me being an average Joe can figure out this elementry game plan, then I don't think it would be too hard for professionals to catch on.

 

My whole point is if we would run more "trick plays" it would make the defense play more conservative, and not expose our terrible line as much.  Talking about keeping the defense honest, not by running Trent only because they would know it's a pass if they didn't run him every so often but when the defense wants to bring an extra guy on a blitz look at Andrew Luck just fake that HB dive play, AND KEEP IT leaving the whole left side of the field wide open, and Andrew jogs for a gain of 15.  I would be able to count on 1 hand for all of the read option plays or end arounds the Colts have ran this year. 

 

Andrew loves the quick WR screen, why don't we do a WR screen pass?  With as much respect our WR's get when 1 touches the ball the defense flocks, trust me it would work.  You've seen McAfee call his own onside kick and recover it himself and punt pass that worked, just not caught.  I really don't see why Pep isn't more slick.  We may get lucky and score an easy TD, but other teams would have to play way more careful if we were pulling tricks out of our hat.  In return Luck wouldn't have as much pressure throughout the game.  It's a win-win situation, the way I see it, and if somebody fumbles or turns the ball over, big deal it happens multiple times a game EVERY game anyway.

[ColtStronger]

39m

Mike Wells @MikeWellsNFL

The Colts exchanged the deep ball for shorter passes to keep Andrew Luck from getting hit late in the season http://t.co/xkuzyaxZgw

 

 

 

Just like I had been saying.  I xpect this to continue in the playoffs as well.

I understand that logic, but it's exposing our WR's at the same time.  Hopefully RW doesn't see many, he is already beaten up and slow.