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unitaswestand

Replace The Polians With Who?

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It seems to be a popular topic that someone calls for Bill and Chris Polians heads. I think the easy part is to say they should be fired. But for the people who are so passionate about that, what I would like to know is who do you suggest we replace them with? I would be curious as to what people you feel would be more qualified?

I have been a Colts fan since I saw them as a little kid in 1975. In the time since then, the Colts have been bad more then they have been good. And having a bad GM was a huge part of that, as we just didn't get very good players. Once Bill Polian came on board, I was so happy to have a guy with such a great track record at finding gems in the draft and undrafted. So I am one person who really doesn't want to see the Polians ran out of town because I don't want to go back to how it was before.

So firing them is the easy part. Who replaces them?

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No comment on who replaces them. I will say this. If Bill pulls the trigger on Luck, and trades or releases Peyton, then am not going to be a happy camper. The reason is he is old. He is not going to be around with Luck for the next 13 or so season like he was with Manning. He is completely asking his son, who no one is even sure knows what he is doing, to live with his choice. Believe me, if Luck comes in and Peyton is traded it will by Bill pulling the strings on that deal.

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No comment on who replaces them. I will say this. If Bill pulls the trigger on Luck, and trades or releases Peyton, then am not going to be a happy camper. The reason is he is old. He is not going to be around with Luck for the next 13 or so season like he was with Manning. He is completely asking his son, who no one is even sure knows what he is doing, to live with his choice. Believe me, if Luck comes in and Peyton is traded it will by Bill pulling the strings on that deal.

What leads you to believe that Chris would not agree with that move?

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No comment on who replaces them. I will say this. If Bill pulls the trigger on Luck, and trades or releases Peyton, then am not going to be a happy camper. The reason is he is old. He is not going to be around with Luck for the next 13 or so season like he was with Manning. He is completely asking his son, who no one is even sure knows what he is doing, to live with his choice. Believe me, if Luck comes in and Peyton is traded it will by Bill pulling the strings on that deal.

How do we know exactly what influence Bill has on Chris? It is very possible that Chris is left to be responsible for most decisions and he only asks Bill for help when he needs it. It is very possible that Chris thinks drafting Luck is the best thing for the Colts. And just because he is old and won't be with the team in the next 5 years, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing. Dick LeBeau is pretty old, but he consistently produces some of the best defenses in the league year after year

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U cant just keep something bad because u dont know if the next thing will be better or worse. Polian has really screwed up the last several years. it's similar to andy reid. Reid just is not right for the eagles anymore so he has to go. Outside of the manning pick, very few picks have added to our tean to make us a contender. there have been some but not many. the team all this year has been manningless but has not been able to win with polian's other picks.

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I've seen one name I wouldn't mind having IF and I think that is a huge IF we part ways with the Polians and that is the reports that AJ Smith might be on the market this off-season. He has clearly shown he knows how to get talent with the Chargers. I think if he was paired with the right coach he could work here. To me that's his biggest knock though, he's been weak with his moves at head coach both in dumping guys and hiring guys.

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So firing them is the easy part. Who replaces them?

My first thoughts were that depending on who we get as HC, it's possible they may also act as GM. I believe Cowher was his own GM in Pittsburgh and I think Fisher has been around the NFL long enough he would be up for the job. (No idea if he wants it or not though)

Problem here is that these positions usually come from executives, and most fans have no idea who would even be available. If you've ever heard me call for Polian's head, that comes with the unspoken rule that there must be someone better to take the job even if I don't know who that is and that if someone isn't available, then he obviously shouldn't be fired.

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I've seen one name I wouldn't mind having IF and I think that is a huge IF we part ways with the Polians and that is the reports that AJ Smith might be on the market this off-season. He has clearly shown he knows how to get talent with the Chargers. I think if he was paired with the right coach he could work here. To me that's his biggest knock though, he's been weak with his moves at head coach both in dumping guys and hiring guys.

The fact that he hired Norv Turner pretty much crosses him immediately off my list.

I'd rather keep the zombie than hire Turner.

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The fact that he hired Norv Turner pretty much crosses him immediately off my list.

I'd rather keep the zombie than hire Turner.

Yep that's why I said that's my biggest knock with him. I think he made a poor choice to fire Marty and then an even poorer choice to hire Norv and even more poor choice to stick with Norv as long as he has. People talk about Polian having an ego to be right the fact that Smith has hung with Turner as long as he has tells me ALL GMs have egos and want to be right.

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Yep that's why I said that's my biggest knock with him. I think he made a poor choice to fire Marty and then an even poorer choice to hire Norv and even more poor choice to stick with Norv as long as he has. People talk about Polian having an ego to be right the fact that Smith has hung with Turner as long as he has tells me ALL GMs have egos and want to be right.

Oh god that's right he hired Shotty too.

No thank you. We can do without the gleam here.

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I've seen one name I wouldn't mind having IF and I think that is a huge IF we part ways with the Polians and that is the reports that AJ Smith might be on the market this off-season. He has clearly shown he knows how to get talent with the Chargers. I think if he was paired with the right coach he could work here. To me that's his biggest knock though, he's been weak with his moves at head coach both in dumping guys and hiring guys.

AJ Smith is a bigger * than Polian and players avoid him like the plague.

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Oh god that's right he hired Shotty too.

No thank you. We can do without the gleam here.

I think that's where the owner, Irsay has to have a say in who the head coach is like Irsay did when we hired Dungy. Remember in Dungy's book it was Irsay who more or less talked him into coming to Indy not Polian. Either way I do think a coaching change is more likely to happen at the end of the year but I don't think the Polians are going to be shown the door. Like I've said before I don't think Polian's track record makes this year acceptable but I don't think this year over shadows what he's done here since 1998 either.

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For GM why not Marty Schottinhiemer, he knows the game, has a good history in the league...

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This league is about what have you done for me lately. Many successful GMs and coaches have been fired after having rough seasons following success. Polian has made some good picks here and there, mostly overlooked players, but overall he hasn't done a good job in the last few years. To add to this he seems to have become a control freak on level with Jerry Jones, yet he doesn't even own the team, heck technically he isn't even GM. Why is Bill here at all? He certainly should be preaching his philosophy of defense to the coaches. At most he should just be helping scout and draft players and be a consultant to his son. However I am not sure if Chris will allow this team to show his father the door and because of that he is expendable. If he wants to give it try without his father holding his hand and holding the rest of the organization hostage I would understand giving him a chance. If not, I am sure this team can find more qualified candidates than Chris. Ideally one capable of rebuilding this team and hiring the best coaches possibly. Most of all allowing those coaches to do their job and focus on doing his own.

As far as who it is, I don't know names but more of an approach. I would like to see this team target succesful scouting directions from successful organizations. The most important part of building a team is through the draft, especially with the salary cap. Signing and resigning players is very important as well and why I would like one from a successful organization where they hopefully have seen how their GM has managed the payroll well.

If they could actually land a current GM, obviously Ted Thompson from Green Bay and Kevin Colbert from Pittsburg would be ideal candidates. But good luck getting them out of their current positions. This is why I would be okay with signing people from their systems who have learned how to be successful from them and are ready to run their own team but have hit the glass ceiling with their current team.

As far as former coaches in the GM position, I am not a big fan. I don't think they would be as effective at scouting players and worst of all there is a good chance they will try to coach the team from their sky box and be difficult to work for. Now if he we have a guy like Belichick as the head coach and he is also splitting the GM duties with owner in picking his own talent that is different story. But guys like Belichick are rare and I don't think Irsay is someone we want as hands on as Kraft. Then again he did want Dungy and maybe he knows more about the game than we give him credit for. It would be funny if Polian wanted Leaf and Irsay wanted Manning.

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It seems to be a popular topic that someone calls for Bill and Chris Polians heads. I think the easy part is to say they should be fired. But for the people who are so passionate about that, what I would like to know is who do you suggest we replace them with? I would be curious as to what people you feel would be more qualified?

I have been a Colts fan since I saw them as a little kid in 1975. In the time since then, the Colts have been bad more then they have been good. And having a bad GM was a huge part of that, as we just didn't get very good players. Once Bill Polian came on board, I was so happy to have a guy with such a great track record at finding gems in the draft and undrafted. So I am one person who really doesn't want to see the Polians ran out of town because I don't want to go back to how it was before.

So firing them is the easy part. Who replaces them?

I agree with asking the question and I don't know who it will become but Polian is given too much credit for finding the gems, it was the scouts, but all the scouts have been let go it sounds over the years (while the picks have looked worse) so Polian is a good talker and sells stuff very well but you would have to agree, Polian/s have not acheived a good draft in 5 years or so and this years, while looking decent so far, is yet to be determined. Tobi drafted just as many good to great players as Polian has so far in a shorter time span. Faulk, Harrison, Glenn, Meadows, Ellis Johnson, Ken Dilger, Zack Crocket, Bertran Berry (great in Arizona) . He also brought in Harbaugh and started the turn and excitement of this franchise. I can't even beging to post the FA's he picked up along the way, amybe none, IDK, but Bill Polian is replaceable.

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He's an owner not a GM

That's why I posted another post saying I misunderstood the topic and I also rescinded my answer and gave a correct one.

:P

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It seems to be a popular topic that someone calls for Bill and Chris Polians heads. I think the easy part is to say they should be fired. But for the people who are so passionate about that, what I would like to know is who do you suggest we replace them with? I would be curious as to what people you feel would be more qualified?

I have been a Colts fan since I saw them as a little kid in 1975. In the time since then, the Colts have been bad more then they have been good. And having a bad GM was a huge part of that, as we just didn't get very good players. Once Bill Polian came on board, I was so happy to have a guy with such a great track record at finding gems in the draft and undrafted. So I am one person who really doesn't want to see the Polians ran out of town because I don't want to go back to how it was before.

So firing them is the easy part. Who replaces them?

Exactly. It's one thing to get rid of a problem. But beware. You may get exactly what you want, and the replacement may be worse.

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It has nothing to do with what he did in the distant past. The only relevant issue is what will they do in the future and the best predictor of that is recent performance.

Recently their drafts have been poor. They have gone out of their way to antagonize the paying customers. They have hired poorly qualified coaches and then meddled with their coaching decisions. Finally, and most importantly, their most recent season is well on its way to being a complete failure at 0-16.

I honestly would be surprised if there weren't dozens of people who could run this franchise more competently than the Polians have done recently.

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If we replace the Polians - though I don't think there's really anyone more qualified immediately available - as well as Caldwell, we woyld be in full-on rebuilding mode. That's not how I want Manning to spend his remaining years, and I promise you he wont be traded or cut. No coach, GM, or prospective collegiate athlete gives us as good a chance at winning Super Bowls as does Peyton Manning, so disrupting his "flow" is something we must avoid at all costs.

This last draft was exceptional, and the recent firings show that the Polians are far more aware of the situation than the fans. The timing was right, and we will see changes on defense next year. I don't think the Polians will go this season. If they are unable to build a team without Peyton after he retires and they are prepared for it (as it's simply not fair to judge from an unexpected injury), then the future will be in someone else's hands.

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It seems to be a popular topic that someone calls for Bill and Chris Polians heads. I think the easy part is to say they should be fired. But for the people who are so passionate about that, what I would like to know is who do you suggest we replace them with? I would be curious as to what people you feel would be more qualified?

I have been a Colts fan since I saw them as a little kid in 1975. In the time since then, the Colts have been bad more then they have been good. And having a bad GM was a huge part of that, as we just didn't get very good players. Once Bill Polian came on board, I was so happy to have a guy with such a great track record at finding gems in the draft and undrafted. So I am one person who really doesn't want to see the Polians ran out of town because I don't want to go back to how it was before.

So firing them is the easy part. Who replaces them?

It is a popular topic because their performance, lack of accountability and refusal to accept responsibility for the downward spiral of the organization. What person should replace them? There are several good candidates and if the Colts did their due diligence during the search for their replacement I am sure a good candidate would be hired. Please define what “more qualified” means?

I, too, have been a Colts fan for a long time, since the late 1960s. In that time the Colts, like any franchise have been good and bad. I believe the primary reason for the bad seasons in the 70s, 80s and early 90s were the result of bad ownership aided by some bad GMs (Jim Irsay, Joe Thomas sometimes...etc.). Robert Irsay, who owned the team from 1972 to the end of 1996, was one of the worst owners in pro sports. He meddled in all decision making – hiring (some) incompetent GMs – not all were bad; fired a coach at halftime, was cheap and the product on the field reflected that negligence.

We’ve had good seasons like going to the SB in 1968 (a loss) and again in 1971 (a win against the hated Cowboys) and several divisional championships in the 70s) that predate Polian. We’ve had bad seasons predating Polian, too. The mid-eighties come to mind. And we were 3-13 in Polian’s first season, have failed miserably in the playoffs under his tenure and now we are 0-12 and may go winless under Polian in 2011.

A lot of people, NFL analysts, other NFL pro personnel people, fans, columnists, pundits, etc. have come to the conclusion that Polian has been overrated for his so called ability to get very good players. His players consistently fold in the playoffs, yet perform well in the regular seasons and his last 5 drafts have been below average at best. Granted, Polian was a better GM for the Colts than Tobin (Tobin did win a SB with the Bears and he was responsible for drafting most members of their great 80s) defense. Tobin is a good example of what Polian has become – good (not great) track record with a former team(s) but eventually his abilities wane as now is the case with Polian.

I would love to see both Polians relieved of their responsibilities. I will even help them pack and donate money for a one way ticket out of town.

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There will always be great talent coming up whether it be coaching, playing or General Managing. The challenge is idenifyiing it and then working with it.

Reggie Mckenzie? maybe, there is no way of knowing for sure. That is why it is my vote to keep Bill as he has proven he can take a team and build it into a powerhouse several times. The thing that concerns me is that Chris has not. Nor has Regie Mckenzie or even AJ Smith for that matter. If we are to stick with team Polian then I think Irsay has to insure that Bill is at the helm for at least 3 years.

The common perception seems to be that Chris took over this year before the draft, but I remember Bill saying a month or two before 2011 draft that Chris had run the last couple years drafts and that he (Bill) was going to take charge again this year. So, while the 09 and 10 drafts weren't nearly as bad as some people would like to make them out to be ( certainly not as bad as 2007 ) I don't have a ton of confidence in Chris Polian. He could turn out to be great, non of us know, but I'd like either see Bill make one last hurrah, or go in another direction.

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While the Polians have struggled with draft picks over the last few seasons, they have also hit on many of them. Look, every GM misses on players, and the fact we have constantly been drafting at the end of every round has played a major role in this. The NFL is not set-up for the sustained success the Colts have had over the last decade...free agency, salary cap, and draft positions should cause every team to struggle a few seasons out of a decade. This pathetic excuse for a season is a combination of terrible coaching and a meddling front office (which resulted in the terrible coaches)....there's enough talent on this team for it to have at least 4 wins if the staff/front office were willing to adjust schemes and put the roster in the best position to win. I don't think Bill's (and Chris') problem is the talent department (this last draft was excellent if players can stay healthy), it rests in their stubborn insistence on dictating the decisions of the coaching staff and consistently meddling in personnel decisions that should rest with the coaching staff, as well as schematic decisions that should be dictated by the coaching staff. Thus, they hired a puppet in Caldwell and we are seeing how badly that works.

I think the main problem with firing the Polians is that there is not a proven, or even unproven, top replacement out there. It's funny that all those fans who want them ran out of town cannot name a viable alternative. AJ Smith is a bigger butt than the Polians, and doesn't have nearly the track record. He would be a terrible choice. I'm sure there are some unproven personnel men out there, but I don't think, unless we go into complete rebuilding mode sans PM, that hiring one of them is in the best interests of the team.

If I were Irsay, I would tell Bill and Chris to stick to scouting, drafting players, and managing a roster that fit the schemes of the NEW coaching staff. Let the coaches coach and keep the FO evaluating talent. The problem is the Polians draconian insistence on dictating every aspect of the franchise...Irsay needs to put his foot down, get rid of Caldwell, and bring in someone who will push back and put them in their place. This is probably a pipe dream as I have this unsettling feeling that Caldwell will be back and the Polians will be doing the exact same thing next year. I hope I'm wrong...guess we will wait and see.

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If I were Irsay, I would tell Bill and Chris to stick to scouting, drafting players, and managing a roster that fit the schemes of the NEW coaching staff. Let the coaches coach and keep the FO evaluating talent. The problem is the Polians draconian insistence on dictating every aspect of the franchise...Irsay needs to put his foot down, get rid of Caldwell, and bring in someone who will push back and put them in their place. This is probably a pipe dream as I have this unsettling feeling that Caldwell will be back and the Polians will be doing the exact same thing next year. I hope I'm wrong...guess we will wait and see.

Yep

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While the Polians have struggled with draft picks over the last few seasons, they have also hit on many of them. Look, every GM misses on players, and the fact we have constantly been drafting at the end of every round has played a major role in this. The NFL is not set-up for the sustained success the Colts have had over the last decade...free agency, salary cap, and draft positions should cause every team to struggle a few seasons out of a decade. This pathetic excuse for a season is a combination of terrible coaching and a meddling front office (which resulted in the terrible coaches)....there's enough talent on this team for it to have at least 4 wins if the staff/front office were willing to adjust schemes and put the roster in the best position to win. I don't think Bill's (and Chris') problem is the talent department (this last draft was excellent if players can stay healthy), it rests in their stubborn insistence on dictating the decisions of the coaching staff and consistently meddling in personnel decisions that should rest with the coaching staff, as well as schematic decisions that should be dictated by the coaching staff. Thus, they hired a puppet in Caldwell and we are seeing how badly that works.

I think the main problem with firing the Polians is that there is not a proven, or even unproven, top replacement out there. It's funny that all those fans who want them ran out of town cannot name a viable alternative. AJ Smith is a bigger butt than the Polians, and doesn't have nearly the track record. He would be a terrible choice. I'm sure there are some unproven personnel men out there, but I don't think, unless we go into complete rebuilding mode sans PM, that hiring one of them is in the best interests of the team.

If I were Irsay, I would tell Bill and Chris to stick to scouting, drafting players, and managing a roster that fit the schemes of the NEW coaching staff. Let the coaches coach and keep the FO evaluating talent. The problem is the Polians draconian insistence on dictating every aspect of the franchise...Irsay needs to put his foot down, get rid of Caldwell, and bring in someone who will push back and put them in their place. This is probably a pipe dream as I have this unsettling feeling that Caldwell will be back and the Polians will be doing the exact same thing next year. I hope I'm wrong...guess we will wait and see.

As a Cubs fan there was constant arguing over firing Hendry because of who would replace him. You can't stop from doing what needs to be done because of uncertainty. If Bill stays we can be certain that he will continue to meddle in the coaching and do what he can to keep a tough coach with strong beliefs out of this organization. The front office shouldn't be putting defensive/offensive schemes together, it should be the coaching staff. It won't matter if this team gets Zimmer to coach our defense and he isn't allowed to run his own defense.

Chris is our current GM, but can he perform on his own? Bill is talking about "taking control of things" and that shows to me either Chris doesn't have the ability to be GM or Bill is just a control freak. I think Bill needs to be asked to retire and step down. Bill is too old and stubborn to change at this point, his interference with coaching operations is only getting worse. Chris needs to be asked how he feels about his father leaving. If Chris is upset and goes against it, he has to leave as well. If he is willing to step up and do the job himself I understand Irsay giving him a chance. This is a big draft and it will suffer if Chris isn't cut out for the job, but atleast we will know if he has the ability to be our next GM. This could be a long next couple of years, but it will be even longer if we continue the current path.

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As a Cubs fan there was constant arguing over firing Hendry because of who would replace him. You can't stop from doing what needs to be done because of uncertainty. If Bill stays we can be certain that he will continue to meddle in the coaching and do what he can to keep a tough coach with strong beliefs out of this organization. The front office shouldn't be putting defensive/offensive schemes together, it should be the coaching staff. It won't matter if this team gets Zimmer to coach our defense and he isn't allowed to run his own defense.

Chris is our current GM, but can he perform on his own? Bill is talking about "taking control of things" and that shows to me either Chris doesn't have the ability to be GM or Bill is just a control freak. I think Bill needs to be asked to retire and step down. Bill is too old and stubborn to change at this point, his interference with coaching operations is only getting worse. Chris needs to be asked how he feels about his father leaving. If Chris is upset and goes against it, he has to leave as well. If he is willing to step up and do the job himself I understand Irsay giving him a chance. This is a big draft and it will suffer if Chris isn't cut out for the job, but atleast we will know if he has the ability to be our next GM. This could be a long next couple of years, but it will be even longer if we continue the current path.

I see your side and think it makes complete sense. However, I do not think a complete gutting of the coaching staff and FO is a smart move unless we draft Luck, cut Freeney and Peyton, let Mathis, Reggie, and pretty much all other veterans except Pierre walk, and go into complete rebuilding mode. Bill "retiring" and allowing Chris to completely take the reigns is decent solution and the perfect middle ground (e.g., not a complete overhaul, but not keeping everything status quo). We have no idea to what extent Chris thinks the FO should be making on the field decisions for the staff, and it would be good to find out what kind of GM he really is in the absence of his father.

It's going to be a long and interesting few months leading up to the draft....

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