This Team has a Coaching Problem/Fire Coaches (Merge)

[Cynjin]

Of course, let's throw shade .

????

[CoachLite]

Well.....their "fire Pagano and the staff" narratives are perilously close to being destroyed since we've equaled last season's playoff accomplishment, and God forbid could surpass it with an upset at Denver next week, after which they'd probably need grief counseling.

 

Not only that....but their favorite foil to Chuck Pagano....Bruce Arians....was unfortunately not able to offset his lesser talented QB with the Yoda-level coaching supremacy he supposedly enjoys over Chuck Pagano and Pep Hamilton in an effort to beat the Panthers....champions of the powerhouse NFC South.

 

In other words.....roster talent and experience matters....and a coaching staff can only do so much with young developing players.

 

Who knew?

I'm baaack ...

While I've not been a fan of our coaching, it takes time for coaches to learn to be good or even great coaches. I do hope Pep Hamilton gets the job of his dreams - elsewhere - not because he doesn't have good tactics (he does), but because he lacks good strategies. The only way I'd support firing a coach if there was someone demonstrably better available (I guess that holds for players in the queue, too). Not sure I know who that would be.

My complaint has always been our coaching underperforming our talent level (I agree with H. Nicks that this is the most talented team he's played on including the Giants SB). I stand by my statement.

[pacolts56]

I'm baaack ...

While I've not been a fan of our coaching, it takes time for coaches to learn to be good or even great coaches. I do hope Pep Hamilton gets the job of his dreams - elsewhere - not because he doesn't have good tactics (he does), but because he lacks good strategies. The only way I'd support firing a coach if there was someone demonstrably better available (I guess that holds for players in the queue, too). Not sure I know who that would be.

My complaint has always been our coaching underperforming our talent level (I agree with H. Nicks that this is the most talented team he's played on including the Giants SB). I stand by my statement.

So in spite of you yourself stating that it takes time for the coaching staff itself to learn and develop....you contend that three 11-5 seasons and three playoff berths in the first three years of a comprehensive roster rebuild, including a complete coaching staff change, is underperforming?

 

Because not only does that suggest a completely unrealistic level of expectation beyond Pagano and the staff's success so far....but by THAT standard and definition of "underperforming", and in the results-based reality of NFL coaching....you would have considered guys like Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells and Chuck Noll to be utterly miserable failures after each of those coach's first three seasons.

 

Seriously.....do you not see your own contradiction?

[CoachLite]

So in spite of you yourself stating that it takes time for the coaching staff itself to learn and develop....you contend that three 11-5 seasons and three playoff berths in the first three years of a comprehensive roster rebuild, including a complete coaching staff change, is underperforming?

 

Because not only does that suggest a completely unrealistic level of expectation beyond Pagano and the staff's success so far....but by THAT standard and definition of "underperforming", and in the results-based reality of NFL coaching....you would have considered guys like Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells and Chuck Noll to be utterly miserable failures after each of those coach's first three seasons.

 

Seriously.....do you not see your own contradiction?

No contradiction. 11 - 5 could have easily been 13 - 3, or better. We over-rely on the great talent of Andrew Luck to win games. In general, the performance of all NFL teams has been down this year. But consider, why do good coaches consistently do better than average or poor coaches? With the salary cap, the only way to out-perform is to coach better play from all the players - including the journeymen and the rookies.

[pacolts56]

No contradiction. 11 - 5 could have easily been 13 - 3, or better. We over-rely on the great talent of Andrew Luck to win games. In general, the performance of all NFL teams has been down this year. But consider, why do good coaches consistently do better than average or poor coaches? With the salary cap, the only way to out-perform is to coach better play from all the players - including the journeymen and the rookies.

Sure it is.

 

Be my guest.....chase your tail trying to find a team that tore itself down to the ground....roster, coaches and front office....and then immediately missed not a single a beat of long playoff tradition once the rebuild commenced and then continued it for three years straight.

 

Guess what? You can't.

 

And saying it could have "easily" been 13-3 or better is really grasping for straws in your attempt to degrade Pagano....especially when you conveniently fail to mention that it could've also been 1-15, 7-9 and 10-6....like it was for Jimmy Johnson. Or 3-12-1, 9-7 and 10-6....like it was for Bill Parcells. And I could rattle off plenty more well-known examples, if you'd like.

 

The Colts are on an upward arc that finds us probably 4-5 playmakers away from unquestionable Super Bowl contention. For now, we're good enough to have a puncher's chance against anyone with the players we have. 

 

That alone is a credit to the coaching staff.

[RockThatBlue]

We won the first playoff game. Clearly pagano needs fired.

[ThatOneColtFan]

I guess being right is more important than watching your team succeed. Why can't you just enjoy the win?

That bad team made the playoffs playing in the most competitive conference in football. Three teams won double digits and the worst won 7....

And that Meh quarterback has been in the league four years and taken his team to the playoffs all four years.

Denver is the home team. They're favored to win.

This coaching staff that you're not impressed with beat Seattle last year -- the year they won the Super Bowl. We beat Denver too, and they went to the Super Bowl also. They beat San Francisco, who was one play away from going to the SB. And they beat KC -- twice. All in the same year.

So, if that's not enough to show what this staff is capable of, I'd respectfully suggest the issues are yours and not theirs.

This staff knows what it's doing..... I'm sorry you -- and a number of other people here -- don't seem to know that.

Hahaha, are you really trying to pretend Dalton is good in the postseason? There is a reason they haven't won one with him and Marvin Lewis. Come on, stop pretending we beat a good team. They rank last in rushing the QB and have a decent QB.

Luck had one of his best games against their best unit (their DBs). So that basically sealed their fate. No way our O-line does this against the Broncos pass rush. Unless you want to pretend Cincy's is just as good.

[ThatOneColtFan]

I guess being right is more important than watching your team succeed. Why can't you just enjoy the win?

If that's how you want to interpret it, then sure, go ahead and read it that way. I was thrilled that we won and actually thought the coaches did a good job. As they usually do against teams without a QB.

This game should've been a blowout, all these stupid penalties and dropped passes. It's still annoying to watch at times. Good teams WILL NOT let you get away with that. Thank goodness Dalton is Dalton.

[NewColtsFan]

Hahaha, are you really trying to pretend Dalton is good in the postseason? There is a reason they haven't won one with him and Marvin Lewis. Come on, stop pretending we beat a good team. They rank last in rushing the QB and have a decent QB.

Luck had one of his best games against their best unit (their DBs). So that basically sealed their fate. No way our O-line does this against the Broncos pass rush. Unless you want to pretend Cincy's is just as good.

 

I'm well aware of who and what Andy Dalton is.    And I know how poor he is in the playoffs.

 

And I also know he helped get the Bengals to the playoffs in each of his first four years,  and as soon as you learn to accept that,  you'll make better posts here....

[GoColts8818]

Hahaha, are you really trying to pretend Dalton is good in the postseason? There is a reason they haven't won one with him and Marvin Lewis. Come on, stop pretending we beat a good team. They rank last in rushing the QB and have a decent QB.

Luck had one of his best games against their best unit (their DBs). So that basically sealed their fate. No way our O-line does this against the Broncos pass rush. Unless you want to pretend Cincy's is just as good.

funny how people just try to excuse something away when it doesn't support their arguement.

No the Bengals are not the best team in the NFL and yes the Colts are going to have a major step up in competition this but beating a team that got to the playoffs when two other teams from their divison does make that team a good win. When you shut then out for three of the four halves you play against that season you did something right.

Is the Bengals win the most impressive win the Colts could get? No but the Colts are now 3-3 against the other AFC playoff teams this season and 3-4 overall against playoff teams. Not a great record I'll admit that but sure destroyes the "they haven't beaten anyone who isn't a bottom feeder" argument.

Also, Dalton is not a great QB but look at who the QBS Manning's Colts lost to in his first three playoff trips, McNair, pretty good but after that Fielder and Pennington. At least Luck and the Colts are beating those lesser QBs early in his career.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Hahaha, are you really trying to pretend Dalton is good in the postseason? There is a reason they haven't won one with him and Marvin Lewis. Come on, stop pretending we beat a good team. They rank last in rushing the QB and have a decent QB.

Luck had one of his best games against their best unit (their DBs). So that basically sealed their fate. No way our O-line does this against the Broncos pass rush. Unless you want to pretend Cincy's is just as good.

 

Cincy beat Denver, like 2 weeks ago.

[GoColts8818]

If that's how you want to interpret it, then sure, go ahead and read it that way. I was thrilled that we won and actually thought the coaches did a good job. As they usually do against teams without a QB.

This game should've been a blowout, all these stupid penalties and dropped passes. It's still annoying to watch at times. Good teams WILL NOT let you get away with that. Thank goodness Dalton is Dalton.

i agree the Colts have things to clean up and I would add turnovers to your list. Still turnovers and dropped passes go on the players at least some of the dumb penalties do too. Still I have said and still feel those pentalties show a lack of discipline and I do feel that's one thing Pagano could really do a better job with.

[Jules]

Major major coaching problem.

 

;)

 

:yay:

[Jules]

Major major coaching problem.

 

;)

 

:yay:

[GoColts8818]

So who wants to fire Pagano now?

[James Harden]

Sorry Chuck. Please forgive me 

[HoosierColt89]

This is a glorious example of why the Internet doesn't run professional sports franchises.

[SouthernCal]

Crickets.

[Warhawk]

No way our O-line does this against the Broncos pass rush. Unless you want to pretend Cincy's is just as good.

 

Yeah, about that...

[backshoulderfade]

Chuck and the whole coaching team is terrible. I mean we have only won 1 more game each season while he's been in charge. 17 losses? Pathetic. I'm leaving to become a Jags fan.

[ThatOneColtFan]

I'll gladly eat my crow. I'm not afraid of admitting I was wrong on some things. But we still have things to fix.

-Penalties kill us

-Weird play calls at times

-Bad STs coaching

-Defense needs to hustle (CJ run on 4th down unacceptable).

I see Pagano finally realized Richardson is useless and said "thanks but no thanks." Clear sign he is improving!

[BrentMc11]

So who wants to fire Pagano now?

Some of this freakshow we call so-called fans would fire their grandma.  The next will be...fire em all if they cannot beat the patriots.  I may start going on the offensive again.  

[BrentMc11]

I'll gladly eat my crow. I'm not afraid of admitting I was wrong on some things. But we still have things to fix.

-Penalties kill us

-Weird play calls at times

-Bad STs coaching

-Defense needs to hustle (CJ run on 4th down unacceptable).

I see Pagano finally realized Richardson is useless and said "thanks but no thanks." Clear sign he is improving!

You are a true football genius.  Penalties kill us.  No   Sherlock.

[Danfish98]

I'll gladly eat my crow. I'm not afraid of admitting I was wrong on some things. But we still have things to fix.

-Penalties kill us

-Weird play calls at times

-Bad STs coaching

-Defense needs to hustle (CJ run on 4th down unacceptable).

I see Pagano finally realized Richardson is useless and said "thanks but no thanks." Clear sign he is improving!

Bad ST coaching?!? Go watch Colts games from 5 years ago on repeat until the awful ST play makes you want to gouge your eyes out. Cribbs needs to make smarter decisions but the Colts have perhaps the best ST play in the league.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Yes, I think you can coach a team into avoiding penalties.

Weird that people get fired up over such innocuous post.

Even weirder that people hold grudges over the internet.

@Danfish, I guess I think Cribbs should improve his judgment, I won't completely blame coaching but you can gradually see that the play was sort of coming.

[jvan1973]

Yes, I think you can coach a team into avoiding penalties.

Weird that people get fired up over such innocuous post.

Even weirder that people hold grudges over the internet.

@Danfish, I guess I think Cribbs should improve his judgment, I won't completely blame coaching but you can gradually see that the play was sort of coming.

Perhaps you should watch again. A fair catch doesn't stop that play from happening.

[SilentHill]

Don't jump the gun... we've been out coached by Belichick and CO every time we've played them in the Pagano / Luck era.

 

We really need to have a solidly coached game next weekend, win or lose.

[jvan1973]

Don't jump the gun... we've been out coached by Belichick and CO every time we've played them in the Pagano / Luck era.

We really need to have a solidly coached game next weekend, win or lose.

What coach doesn't get out coached by Belichick

[SilentHill]

What coach doesn't get out coached by Belichick

 

Good point, but we need to cross that hurdle. The play calling was really atrocious last time we played them.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Rex Ryan for one.

He has always contested Belichick with far inferior teams. Pagano has been lights out this postseason (needs to discipline us more--too many dumb penalties) but if Rex was our coach, that spot in the SB would be a lock.

[Jason_]

I'll gladly eat my crow. I'm not afraid of admitting I was wrong on some things. But we still have things to fix.

-Penalties kill us

-Weird play calls at times

-Bad STs coaching

-Defense needs to hustle (CJ run on 4th down unacceptable).

I see Pagano finally realized Richardson is useless and said "thanks but no thanks." Clear sign he is improving!

 

Just a couple of points:

 

--EVERY team has some things they need to fix.  There is no perfect team out there.

 

--yes penalties are killers, but consider this.  Last year, the colts were the least penalized team in the league with the exact same coaching staff.  Players have to take some responsibility

 

--weird playcalls at times..yeah I'll give you that but again, that could be said of pretty much every team in the league

 

--bad STs coaching?  yeah...no.  Cribbs has been around returning kicks long enough to know when he should call a fair catch.  That's entirely on him.  The STs coaches have been coaching their butts off this year.

 

--defense needs to hustle...they were hustling all game long.  Had it not been for that penalty on Jones on the first drive, then potentially they hold the Broncos offense to 3 points.  They were tackling well all game except for that play.  Unfortunately broken tackles do happen from time to time, albeit that was probably the worst time during that game for them to not tackle well.  If they had been tackling poorly all game long, then I could see putting that on the coaches.  That was not the case however. 

 

as a side note, I find it a bit ridiculous when a fan uses the word "unacceptable". 

[tfunky14]

Yep......

3 straight playoff appearances

3 straight 11 win season

Now a AFCCG!

 

 

Sure this team has a coaching problem....

[ThatOneColtFan]

Why can I not expect more from the team?

I just see things that will kill is against teams like the Patriots and would rather we work on them then suffer a stomach turning loss.

Unlike Manning, Brady won't be playing on a turn quad, we need to being our A game and a lot of players are going to have to play their best games as a Colt. Pagano especially is going to have to coach his best game period. I honestly see the Pats as our greatest test, we get past them and I think our chances of hoisting the Lombardi are pretty damn good.

I don't see how you can view the CJ play as acceptable. Some players stood around and didn't bother hustling. How is that ok?

[jvan1973]

Why can I not expect more from the team?

I just see things that will kill is against teams like the Patriots and would rather we work on them then suffer a stomach turning loss.

Unlike Manning, Brady won't be playing on a turn quad, we need to being our A game and a lot of players are going to have to play their best games as a Colt. Pagano especially is going to have to coach his best game period. I honestly see the Pats as our greatest test, we get past them and I think our chances of hoisting the Lombardi are pretty damn good.

I don't see how you can view the CJ play as acceptable. Some players stood around and didn't bother hustling. How is that ok?

How is focusing on the negative helping? There is no one from the coaching staff on this board looking for answers. They know what needs work. Not all problems can be fixed by coaching. Relax and enjoy the success

[BlueCollarColts]

Rex Ryan for one.

He has always contested Belichick with far inferior teams. Pagano has been lights out this postseason (needs to discipline us more--too many dumb penalties) but if Rex was our coach, that spot in the SB would be a lock.

There is no such thing as a lock in the payoffs

[ThatOneColtFan]

You should hear what my friends are saying about the Colts v Pats game then. Depressing.

They are already going on about which NFC team has the best chance of stopping NE. It's insulting! Makes me want that W that much more. Sorry to anyone I offend here.

I am one of the more fiery fans lol.

[tfunky14]

Why can I not expect more from the team?

I just see things that will kill is against teams like the Patriots and would rather we work on them then suffer a stomach turning loss.

Unlike Manning, Brady won't be playing on a turn quad, we need to being our A game and a lot of players are going to have to play their best games as a Colt. Pagano especially is going to have to coach his best game period. I honestly see the Pats as our greatest test, we get past them and I think our chances of hoisting the Lombardi are pretty damn good.

I don't see how you can view the CJ play as acceptable. Some players stood around and didn't bother hustling. How is that ok?

Did you even watch the run by CJ?????  Yes the Colts missed the tackle but got to give CJ credit too, he made some moves so he could get the 1st down.......Just like Boom did against Houston a few weeks back.    Geez people...

[tfunky14]

How is focusing on the negative helping? There is no one from the coaching staff on this board looking for answers. They know what needs work. Not all problems can be fixed by coaching. Relax and enjoy the success

well said

[Superman]

Rex Ryan for one.

He has always contested Belichick with far inferior teams. Pagano has been lights out this postseason (needs to discipline us more--too many dumb penalties) but if Rex was our coach, that spot in the SB would be a lock.

 

Rex's Jets were 4-9 against the Pats, including the playoffs. 

[ThatOneColtFan]

With the teams Rex had that is great. They did have one of the best O-line in years in 09 though.

That is still better than 0-3 and all being +20 point losses IIRC. I am betting his record is better with a Luck caliber QB.

I am now happy with Pagano though, and think he can lead this team, I was wrong about him. This team is forming an identity in the postseason right before our very eyes.