This Team has a Coaching Problem/Fire Coaches (Merge)

[BrentMc11]

I could not agree more.  Luck is average AT BEST.  Not sure if he is better than Cutler.  Media has made this guy into the second coming.  Nice young man, book smart, tough as nails, but I question his football IQ and mechanics.  O-line is clearly not helping his growth.  With that said, I expect more people to get off his band wagon as they come to learn what we already know.

This post alone should qualify as the worst post of 2014. Merry Christmas.  You came in nice and hard with your 2 or 3 posts.  

 

After an awful game with huge mistakes and drops...The trolls come out in numbers.  And you Sir are just that.  Here's to you and your newbies that just come to troll....yeah...about 7 of you.....

 

             

[BrentMc11]

Please elaborate this statement.

I say please don't.  Luckily he will run out of posts for the day.  

[HungarianColtsFan]

I say please don't.  Luckily he will run out of posts for the day.  

 

 

I just didn't get his point. Luck's INT/Attempt ratio is 2.5%, while NFL's average is 2.4% Is that really high? 

[lollygagger8]

I didn't read the many pages or comments, so I may be repeating.....but I still cant believe he said this: 

 

 

When the woman commentator asked Pagano what they need to change in the 2nd half, he said "I don't have any answers" 

 

 

Ummmm...........that is the most inept and incompetent answer you could possibly give. He is supposed to be the leader of the team. How can players look up to someone like that?? 

[BrentMc11]

I didn't read the many pages or comments, so I may be repeating.....but I still cant believe he said this: 

 

 

When the woman commentator asked Pagano what they need to change in the 2nd half, he said "I don't have any answers" 

 

 

Ummmm...........that is the most inept and incompetent answer you could possibly give. He is supposed to be the leader of the team. How can players look up to someone like that?? 

He might have just blasted the team and told him how disappointed he was in them....and really did not want to talk at all.   He probably they were embarrassing....and stopped talking.

[Jason_]

We were beat soundly in that game until Luck went insane and brought us back.  We should have lost.  That game had nothing to do with Pagano's coaching talent, and everything to do with Luck's.

 

So, "We will never be anything more than a one and done team with our current staff in place."....except for that time that they did win...out of the only 2 attempts they've had so far.  Gotcha

 

Luck was also part of the reason the Colts got behind in the first place in that game...so there's that.

[Jason_]

I didn't read the many pages or comments, so I may be repeating.....but I still cant believe he said this: 

 

 

When the woman commentator asked Pagano what they need to change in the 2nd half, he said "I don't have any answers" 

 

 

Ummmm...........that is the most inept and incompetent answer you could possibly give. He is supposed to be the leader of the team. How can players look up to someone like that?? 

 

I agree that the answer he gave could have definitely been better but...how are the players supposed to look up to someone like that?  It's called coach-speak.  He's never going to give any kind of meaningful answer in those type of situations. 

[SteelCityColt]

Yes, the INTs and the six fumbles (same as Cutler).  There is a reason why running backs are no longer highly coveted.  That reason being the league has morphed into a passing league.  In addition, the running game is primarily a function of the O-line.  There are several top teams that have mediocre running backs.  Put those guys on the Colts and they fail.  Put our backs on those teams and they'll succeed (except for Trent - bust).  The fact that Luck has passed so much has allowed him to accumulate TDs and yardage at a rate higher than most other QBs.  If he had not thrown as much he would still have a high turnover rate (percentage biased) but he would not have the supporting stats that make some people think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  GO COLTS!!

 

Uh I don't think you understand what you're saying about his turnover percentage.. it's actually there or there abouts for the average. He's also got a markedly lower percentage than Cutler who was your comparison.

 

So if he hadn't thrown as much, say as many times as Romo (424 Attempts compared to Luck's 600) , he'd have 27 TDs to 10 INTs and 3300 yards. Not amazing but into the safe pair of hands QB range. 

 

If we flip it the other way and project Cutler to throw as much as Luck... we're looking at 32TDs, 21 INTs and 4160 yard compared to Andrew's 38TDs 16 Ints and 4601 Yards. 

 

Simple fact is, Luck has been carrying this team for a long time and it's starting to show. If you really think Cutler could have done as well then sorry but that's just laughable. 

[thestuman]

I would prefer Rick Venturi be our head coach.

 

... and I did screw up my comment regarding Luck's INT%.  With that said, let the beatings continue!!

 

 

GO COLTS!!

[pgt_rob]

 If he had not thrown as much he would still have a high turnover rate (percentage biased)

 

No.

[Gavin]

I agree that the answer he gave could have definitely been better but...how are the players supposed to look up to someone like that?  It's called coach-speak.  He's never going to give any kind of meaningful answer in those type of situations. 

I think sometimes calling your players out through the media is appropriate or at least a particular unit of the team (O Line)......Such as for example after the Pittsburgh game.....we got humiliated and bullied at the LOS on both sides of the ball.......A real garbage effort, They played with no heart or fight, I look to the Steelers game late in the 4th quarter on a field goal vs KC. A KC player lowered his shoulder and tried to bulldoze Ramon Foster back into the Kicker by lowering his shoulder and apparently trying to grab at his legs, Not only did Ramon take offense to it but his whole team backed him up. Now penalty flags were thrown on that play of course but players have to stick up and bring some attitude on the field.

 

Ill give another example: Jack Mewhort on the 2nd play offensive of the game for the Colts got thrown down by Tyrone Crawford.....Mewhort didn't get up and get in his face or nothing, Sometimes you just to play the part of the bully in football and be nasty...This O Line not only lacks fundamentals but they lack toughness and quite honestly they are soft when it comes to running the ball, Cherilus is another example....This happened in the preseason but he got stiff armed Paul Kruger and just bulled to the inside and gave up a big sack on Luck, Luck got absolutely blasted......All Cherilus did after that play was pick himself up off the ground and did not even look to Luck or check to see if he is alright, He just looked around like it was not a big deal and moved onto the next play...

 

There are a lot of players that respond to the approach of a coach telling it like it is whether that be in private (Im quite honestly not sure at this point this goes on but it could) or through the media, I personally like the Mike Tomlin and Tom Coughlin approach

 

 

Im not sitting here calling for Paganos job to be in jeopardy of course but if a team sucked or a unit sucked....well its alright to say it sometimes...Not all the time because that might get old an eventually ineffective , If a player needs to play better then say it, If said player has a problem with that well then that's on that player for not playing well enough and if he has a problem with the truth well then he is in the wrong line of work

[Jason_]

I think sometimes calling your players out through the media is appropriate......

 

 

That's really besides the point.  It really doesn't matter what you, I or anyone else thinks about calling players out through the media.  You think it can be appropriate at times, I'm not saying I completely disagree.  However, it's not something Pagano is going to do, and I don't think that is in any way indicative of his ability as a coach.

[UnitastoOrr]

Look I realize that the players are adults and for most have been playing the game for a long time, but coaching and front office has to come into play sometime (ex: the hated Patriots and another is Bill Polian) so there fore I see our coaching and front office as a goat that has to be held accountable at sometime. They are better than this, and it is up to the coaches to put player in successful situations. That is the part that bothers me. And yes I know we are only three years removed from the Peyton Manning disaster, And obviously we are not world beaters at this point, and injuries play a part, but the rest of the league is going thru the same thing to some extent and the better, improving teams are proving just that. An improved team does not go thru the four blowout games we have this year.

Show the fans something, call an ace an ace, get someone fired up and accountable, don't just say yeah we did not play well, or that I should have done this or done that, fess up to the reasons and do something about it. Change something and be accountable and motivational that is all I ask

[dgambill]

Are we still arguing the fake punt? Honestly, I don't have a problem with it. First off it is very early in the game...we have a whole game to come back from it. Second the game really isn't affecting us for the playoffs because we have wrapped up a first rd bye and playing on the road likely the rest of the way. Third there is no better way to practice this type of play for down the road then in real game circumstances. It was a costly learning session but we found out that no way we run that play again with McDonald out there or probably that length of a try. Pat threw a good ball though. Sure trying from our 20 probably isn't a good risk reward thing because even a first down doesn't put us in a scoring position but regardless the play would have worked but it wasn't executed. Had that been the playoffs this would be a different story. Had this happened at the 50 I'm sure nobody would have cared. Had it been preseason it wouldn't have mattered. Fact was we are locked into a first rd home game...and nothing is changing that. Live and learn. There are far more concerns about this team than that play call.

[GoColts8818]

I would prefer Rick Venturi be our head coach.

... and I did screw up my comment regarding Luck's INT%. With that said, let the beatings continue!!

GO COLTS!!

we tried that, the result was 1-15. Worse than 2011.

[dgambill]

I see there are many posts covering a wide area here. While Luck has struggled with his turnovers he has really been forced to throw the ball WAY to many times. You throw 40 times a game in this league your going to see 1-2 turnovers a game even with great qbs. Asking a young qb to throw that much with people at his feet and hanging off him and he can't step into his throws or make sure to keep his mechanics sound is just a recipe for disaster. Luck needs more protection...not just from a pass blocking perspective but a running game as well. He is a really really good qb...but won't reach his full potential without some help around him.

[DougDew]

deleted

[peytonmanning18]

The coaches aren't gettjng fired, someone lock this thread

[RockThatBlue]

I could not agree more. Luck is average AT BEST. Not sure if he is better than Cutler. Media has made this guy into the second coming. Nice young man, book smart, tough as nails, but I question his football IQ and mechanics. O-line is clearly not helping his growth. With that said, I expect more people to get off his band wagon as they come to learn what we already know.

Bashing luck and comparing him to Cutler is just dumb. This colts team is a 4 win team at best without Luck. He pretty much has to carry the team on his back every year.

[JlynRN]

I could not agree more.  Luck is average AT BEST.  Not sure if he is better than Cutler.  Media has made this guy into the second coming.  Nice young man, book smart, tough as nails, but I question his football IQ and mechanics.  O-line is clearly not helping his growth.  With that said, I expect more people to get off his band wagon as they come to learn what we already know.

 

LMAOOOOOO that is ludicrous and asinine !!!!  I feel sorry for you if you can't see that Luck is one the the best young QB's in the league.  But then you're probably not a Colts fan, but a troll from somewhere else.  

[UnitastoOrr]

I agree with a previous poster, Chuck Pagano and this coaching staff will not be the one that gets the Colts to the Superbowl.. It happened in San Francisco, Denver, St.Louis, Colts (Caldwell in for Dungy)

Tampa Bay, Oakland, Colts (Dungy, for Mora), it goes on and on. Our version of the Colts is headed in the same direction. And I also think Grigson has to be held accountable to some extent, we are still looking for offensive line help, and Defensive front seven. I also think that most, not all of our free agents have been second stringers or players that at this point have been over paid. I think the only one who has really worked out is Vontae Davis and Freeman. Jury is still out for Arthur Jones, Cory Redding is in the twilight of his career. Bradshaw has been good for the LITTLE time he has played I'm only talking about free agents.

   By the way, can't believe we have heard from Mr. Irsay. Tweet, tweet......

[TKnight24]

I didn't read the many pages or comments, so I may be repeating.....but I still cant believe he said this:

When the woman commentator asked Pagano what they need to change in the 2nd half, he said "I don't have any answers"

Ummmm...........that is the most inept and incompetent answer you could possibly give. He is supposed to be the leader of the team. How can players look up to someone like that??

Show Him The Door!

[TKnight24]

I think position coaches are of most concern. Offense and defensive lines (training) need overhaul. I'd expect them to look at Emanual and Gilbert replacements. The coordinators and their game prep needs serious overhaul too, but I don't think they necessarily need replacing though. I'm OK with Pagano, but if he doesn't see a need for upgrades, then that might be a different story.

Fact he doesn't change what doesn't work should be evidence enough to fire him

Admits the line was bad and that certain players had a bad game but yet in his presser he says Harrison and Holmes will split snaps at C

How does a playoff team (and I use that loosely cause we're only in the playoffs due to a poor division) not know what their starting offensive line is by week 17?

How is the starting line still in question in week 17?

[Superman]

If Harbaugh is out in SF, and doesn't take another NFL job, I'll take Mike Solari as offensive line coach.

[Superman]

I didn't read the many pages or comments, so I may be repeating.....but I still cant believe he said this: 

 

 

When the woman commentator asked Pagano what they need to change in the 2nd half, he said "I don't have any answers" 

 

 

Ummmm...........that is the most inept and incompetent answer you could possibly give. He is supposed to be the leader of the team. How can players look up to someone like that?? 

 

You know, I'm rewatching the game now, and I think that's a drastic misrepresentation of what Pagano said. Not only is it a second hand paraphrase, but the reporter was speaking extemporaneously.

[TrueColt!]

If they coached us to a win, we would be tied with Den right now. They just loss to the Bengals. We could've took a first round bye next week. But nope, fake punts and stuff got us manhandled. I do not understand the end goal of the coaching staff because it's not, to win. It can't be.

[GoColts8818]

If they coached us to a win, we would be tied with Den right now. They just loss to the Bengals. We could've took a first round bye next week. But nope, fake punts and stuff got us manhandled. I do not understand the end goal of the coaching staff because it's not, to win. It can't be.

1. The fake punt has been debated to death. It was a risk that didn't work but the reason it failed had nothing to do with coaching. The guy was wide open which means the play call worked because the Cowboys didn't see it coming and the design worked because the guy was open. The player didn't make the catch. That goes on him not the coaches. You could argue someone else should have been out there to throw too but if someone else was out there the Cowboys would have known something was up. If the Guy catches the ball this forum is a buzz with what a great call it was.

2. The idea the coaching staff doesn't have the goal to win is utterly ridiculous. Believe it or not they want to win more than we do. Their lively hood depends on winning gsmes. If the Colts lose for us okay they lost it stinks but you don't lose your job over it.

There is a lot to be upset about Sunday without needing to make stuff up like the idea the coaches goal isn't to win.

[achcolts]

First drive 3 run plays. With Andrew luck. that is all

[achcolts]

I didnt read much posts but i dont think the fake punt was a bad call. Had the ball been caught 100% everyone on this forum would have looooooooved it. I loved the idea,hated how it panned out. But the really bad part is that he dropped it, and thats just one of those moments that sets the tone of the game. He makes that catch the team woulda played with fire and possibly a different outcome. Either way thats not on the coaches. Im more concerned about the playcalling. Worst thing I've seen. Its as if they try too hard to outsmart the other team and it just end up backfiring

[BrentMc11]

You know, I'm rewatching the game now, and I think that's a drastic misrepresentation of what Pagano said. Not only is it a second hand paraphrase, but the reporter was speaking extemporaneously.

I totally agree.  Not sure what the woman's name was, but it was not an interview....just her words.  He obviously did not want to talk on camera.  He was embarrassed just like Redding was on the sideline.

[OffensivelyPC]

If they coached us to a win, we would be tied with Den right now. They just loss to the Bengals. We could've took a first round bye next week. But nope, fake punts and stuff got us manhandled. I do not understand the end goal of the coaching staff because it's not, to win. It can't be.

I don't mean to point out the obvious, but we have 10 of those things you called wins...

[CoachLite]

Captain of the Titanic: "Stay the course."  Gluck, gluck ...

[Mitch Connors]

Because they're spoiled.

Winning 11 games in each of the first 3 years isn't enough.

Some here want Pagano fired. Some here wish Pagano was fired so Arians would still be here.

Some want Manusky fired.

Spoiled.

How would you like to be a fan of..... Jacksonville, Tennessee, Atlanta, Buffalo, Oakland, St. Louis, Chicago, or Cleveland right about now? You think those fans wouldn't trade places with the Colts in a heart beat?

It's not uncommon for a post to show up saying Grigson has paid no attention to the OLine. That happens multiple times a year.

Except it's wrong. The guy has invested 2/3/4 in draft picks and brought in Cherilous and Thomas at considerable expense.

Some of the moves haven't worked out for reasons beyond Grigson's control. But that doesn't stop the ridiculous assertion that Grigson hasn't tried to build the line.

Fans are just being fans. But that doesn't make every claim they make right. Because they don't know what's going on on the inside. They just know they want wins and whatever changes they want to make that happen.

I agree that 99.96% of the people on here are majorly overreacting but it's also not fair to say they're spoiled.

Past success breeds future expectations.

1. Last year we beat the Seahawks and broncos (both Super Bowls teams) as well as a few other top tier teams. None this year.

2. We didn't really lose any players in the offseason.

3. We are a worse team than last year. Which was a year sooner in the rebuild and, theoretically, should have been a worse team.

Who's to blame for that? Robert Mathis? If losing him is the catalyst what makes our coaches different from teams that lose their super stars and still succeed (wilfork in New England last year, Palmer in Arizona, patriots and Drew Bledsoe, etc)?

[pgt_rob]

Captain of the Titanic: "Stay the course."  Gluck, gluck ...

 

"schhtick to the prochesss."

[Dustin]

"schhtick to the prochesss."

"Rolling balls of butcher knives sharpen rolling balls of butcher knives"

[TKnight24]

Captain of the Titanic: "Stay the course." Gluck, gluck ...

So...... We're gonna sink is what you're saying?

[TKnight24]

@HolderStephen: I need to say this: if #Colts lose in 1st rd Pagano will and should be on very hot seat. BUT all I hear is blame for coaching. What about...

@HolderStephen: Cont'd: the embarrassing execution? Dropped passes, missed blocks, penalties, bad tackling. There is so much blame to go around.

[BrentMc11]

"schhtick to the prochesss."

Is that you Lou Holtz?  

[SteelCityColt]

I would prefer Rick Venturi be our head coach.

 

... and I did screw up my comment regarding Luck's INT%.  With that said, let the beatings continue!!

 

 

GO COLTS!!

 

 

Fair enough  

[lollygagger8]

You know, I'm rewatching the game now, and I think that's a drastic misrepresentation of what Pagano said. Not only is it a second hand paraphrase, but the reporter was speaking extemporaneously.

 

 

I totally agree.  Not sure what the woman's name was, but it was not an interview....just her words.  He obviously did not want to talk on camera.  He was embarrassed just like Redding was on the sideline.

 

Look I'm not trying to be Negative Nancy, but Pagano should've been embarrassed. I am as a Colts fan was completely embarrassed, as I'm sure many of you are. That doesn't excuse him from crappy "answers" (lack thereof) regardless of how the lady put it in context. 

 

His responses have to better. His chuckisms are tired. 

 

Just like when asked why this player is a starter, he says "because he's our starter" and said it twice in a row, because he doesn't have a good answer.