Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Ways to fix the OL going forward


Recommended Posts

So you think most people are as good at their jobs in year 1 as year 2, 3, or 4? There is young talent on this roster. Gavin had some nice points above about other issues that are causing problems.

Overall, I don't think the OL is as bad as everyone thinks. YPC is fine. Luck holds the ball a long time.

Exactly. Is our offensive line great? No, but it isn't terrible or near as bad as some make it out to be. Every running back we've played this season besides Richardson has had a pretty good YPC average, and even Richardson's YPC is 3.4 which is higher than last seasons. They struggle in pass protection at times, but still much better than in past years. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 128
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Yeah, I get the frustration a lot of people have with the interior line play. I just think we have several talented and capable players who are still young and can play RG. I don't know what the deal is with Holmes, but he probably played the finest 33 snaps of RG we've seen this season. Hugh Thornton needs refinement, but still has the tools. Xavier Nixon can play RG. 

 

Young guys like Zach Martin, Brandon Linder, Larry Warford, etc., have all been really good at RG. Linder and Warford were both third rounders. There are a few others who mostly play LG, but have done really well (we just saw Bitonio; he was a second rounder). 

 

I think, as we've recently discussed, that going out and signing a veteran to play guard, in particular, isn't a foolproof strategy for improving OL play. We tried it with Thomas, and haven't gotten any return on that investment. And Thomas was really good for us, in his limited time. It's just a tough way to go.

 

 

Holmes appeared to play well , must be someone else saw it differently .

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you think most people are as good at their jobs in year 1 as year 2, 3, or 4? There is young talent on this roster. Gavin had some nice points above about other issues that are causing problems.

Overall, I don't think the OL is as bad as everyone thinks. YPC is fine. Luck holds the ball a long time.

we went with unproven players on the o-line instead of proven talent. how did it work for us?

Link to post
Share on other sites

we went with unproven players on the o-line instead of proven talent. how did it work for us?

 

Should we talk about the teams who have spent money on so-called "proven talent" on the offensive line, but still don't have good line play? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt the front office will go with Harrison/Holmes at C next year. Combined with AC at LT and Mewhort, with another year of strength built, at LG, only the right side really is unsettled.

I would like to see Cherilous and Nixon man the right side. And then Ulrick John has supposedly bulked up to 315.

I don't think a lot of money or a high draft pick needs to be used on the OL.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Its hard when you have some many uneducated football fans commenting on what should be changed when they really don't know what is going on from a football standpoint.  It is far more indepth then just getting good players on the O-line.  And the TRich stuff gets old. 

 

There are certain individuals who don't/can't watch all the games, which is fine. Real life is different for everyone. Doesn't make anyone any less of a fan.

 

But it's incredible to me that some of those individuals feel justified in talking about who does and doesn't suck, suggesting that the coaches are dumb for playing one guy over another, etc. Everyone can and does have an opinion and a preference about certain things, but how can you expect to be taken seriously when you villify the staff, but you don't even watch the games?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. Is our offensive line great? No, but it isn't terrible or near as bad as some make it out to be. Every running back we've played this season besides Richardson has had a pretty good YPC average, and even Richardson's YPC is 3.4 which is higher than last seasons. They struggle in pass protection at times, but still much better than in past years. 

 

I've always thought that Trent was more of a short yardage back anyway where as Bradshaw and Herron can usually get more YPC.  Trent's a pretty good blocker also.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

No worries James. Just like Darrius Heyward-Bey, GM Grigs will personally escort him to the exit once INDY's season is over. God, I sure hope so anyway. 

 

Didn't Mike Holmgren draft him as a front office executive for the Browns too? Man, what a waste of a draft pick eh? 

I hope your right man he's a sorry excuse for a RB this team needs overhauled in the offseason.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We need players that fit a power scheme. We don't have an Oline that fit a power scheme besides Hugh Thornton. He is a twiner for zone and power. That's the problem with our line. We we ran with Ahmad, Brown and Boom it's zone block. We only used power a few times when we unbalanced the line. Trent have nice runs when we did that. After week 7 we didn't have unbalanced line play again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For next season I vote for bringing in 2 good proven vet guard FA's. I think u have to stop looking at potential & look for proven performance, before we get Luck get killed.

You can let the other guards we have battle it out for backups. At center u can keep Holmes & Harrison.

At tackle I think you move Mewhort here & let him battle it out for RT with Ulrick John & cut Cherilus.

 

That should result in a good OL next season if the O line coaches are any good. 

 

As long as we're talking offense, you also need to bring in another vet FA wr with speed & seperation. Wayne & Nicks shouldn't be starting anymore. A RB with speed for the break away long run is also needed, should be able to get one in the draft or FA. 

 

Now the defence is another story. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, by the way, go check out this Jets/Pats game. Patriots have a really good offensive line, and they can't protect Brady so far. Protection and consistent line play is evasive, even for elite, well-established teams.

 

 

I hear you but if you think a bad game  vs a Rex Ryan defense gives us a pass for what has been a year of bad O line play , I would argue that one. The Pats had problems the first 3-4 games of the season and pretty much corrected it. We have had issues pretty much the whole season.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you but if you think a bad game  vs a Rex Ryan defense gives us a pass for what has been a year of bad O line play , I would argue that one. The Pats had problems the first 3-4 games of the season and pretty much corrected it. We have had issues pretty much the whole season.

 

I didn't ask anyone to give the Colts a pass. My point was that good line play is hard to come by. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't ask anyone to give the Colts a pass. My point was that good line play is hard to come by. 

 

 

I don't know how you quantify that. Lots of things in life are tough. It's up to Grigson and the coaching staff to achieve it. You can;t win without a good O line. This one can't run the ball or protect the franchise . If they can't get it done , then get someone in that can. Saying it's hard is an excuse for losing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how you quantify that. Lots of things in life are tough. It's up to Grigson and the coaching staff to achieve it. You can;t win without a good O line. This one can't run the ball or protect the franchise . If they can't get it done , then get someone in that can. Saying it's hard is an excuse for losing. 

 

You can count on one hand the teams in this league that have good, consistent line play. Many of them are nowhere near the playoffs this season.

 

It's not an excuse for losing, because this team isn't a losing team. It's an acknowledgment that it's hard to build a good offensive line. And you don't do it by going out and grabbing a bunch of free agents. I think we've proven that.

 

My post about the Pats was simple. It's not a free pass for the Colts to not fix their biggest issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cherilus is looking pretty dang good right now, doesn't he? Nixon was definitely not the answer.

Nixon was thrown into the fire. Cherlius when healthy is our best. He hasn't been health since training camp. Came into the season hurt.
Link to post
Share on other sites

You can count on one hand the teams in this league that have good, consistent line play. Many of them are nowhere near the playoffs this season.

 

It's not an excuse for losing, because this team isn't a losing team. It's an acknowledgment that it's hard to build a good offensive line. And you don't do it by going out and grabbing a bunch of free agents. I think we've proven that.

 

My post about the Pats was simple. It's not a free pass for the Colts to not fix their biggest issue.

 

 

Because the Pats had a bad day has little to do with Indy not being able to protect Luck or run the ball. You're  generalizing a whole lot here. Bottom line is this line ranks among the leagues worst. You come back with the league has no more than 5 teams with good offensive line play. Sorry but not buying that one. When you make a guy the highest paid RT in football and he plays like a matador , you messed up. Why does Satele play well with Miami , Oaklnad .. come here and stink like bad feet , then go back to Miami and play well again ? Just saying there are issues here and I'm betting Irsay is not saying .. ehhh nobody has a good line. 10 carries for 1 yard..my God...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because the Pats had a bad day has little to do with Indy not being able to protect Luck or run the ball. You're generalizing a whole lot here. Bottom line is this line ranks among the leagues worst. You come back with the league has no more than 5 teams with good offensive line play. Sorry but not buying that one. When you make a guy the highest paid RT in football and he plays like a matador , you messed up. Why does Satele play well with Miami , Oaklnad .. come here and stink like bad feet , then go back to Miami and play well again ? Just saying there are issues here and I'm betting Irsay is not saying .. ehhh nobody has a good line. 10 carries for 1 yard..my God...

I would agree with you about 90% Cherlius has been hurt since training camp, but was able to play. He isn't healthy which is why we sat him to heal up.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nixon was thrown into the fire. Cherlius when healthy is our best. He hasn't been health since training camp. Came into the season hurt.

I didn't think Cherilus has played TOO terrible. Sure, not as good as last year. But colts fans have beat him to death this year when not need be. Cherilus > Any depth we have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because the Pats had a bad day has little to do with Indy not being able to protect Luck or run the ball. You're  generalizing a whole lot here. Bottom line is this line ranks among the leagues worst. You come back with the league has no more than 5 teams with good offensive line play. Sorry but not buying that one. When you make a guy the highest paid RT in football and he plays like a matador , you messed up. Why does Satele play well with Miami , Oaklnad .. come here and stink like bad feet , then go back to Miami and play well again ? Just saying there are issues here and I'm betting Irsay is not saying .. ehhh nobody has a good line. 10 carries for 1 yard..my God...

 

Goodness, you've completely missed my point. A page ago, we were agreeing about the prospects for the line being good going into next season. We've been talking about what the team needs to do in order to improve the line play going forward. It's my opinion that the team doesn't need to run out and try to sign free agent linemen in order to "fix" the line. 

 

My comment about the Pats was related to that line of thought. It wasn't an excuse for the Colts line play so far. It obviously had nothing to do with today's game. I don't know what it could possibly have had to do with Samson Satele (who, by the way, has been playing worse and worse over the past 4-6 weeks). 

 

My comment about the Pats was simply that it's really hard to put together a good offensive line, even for good, well-established teams. You can't just throw a bunch of money at it and expect it to be fixed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree with you about 90% Cherlius has been hurt since training camp, but was able to play. He isn't healthy which is why we sat him to heal up.

 

 

I understand that. Funny thing is Superman and I had a go around on him after the 2nd exhibition game. I mentioned then that this guy was going to get Luck killed. He's been terrible from the exhibition season through the first 15 games. But I hear you , the guy might have an excuse. Problem some might have is that his 5th year was probably his only real good one and it was also said that a lot of teams stayed away because of health issues. So you had a guy that was veru=y inconsistent his first 5 years that was a medical risk. Never was a good run blocker on top of all that. make him the highest paid RT in football ? Ehhhh

Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all id like to say whattup to everyone...been a fan since the 2001-2002 range, and this forum has a lot of very insightful posters!

With that said i have one question that probly been asked a ton about the philosophy (or lacc thereof) of the OL...when our center hikes the ball, why does the entire offensive line stand almost straight up and take 2-4 steps bacc before engaging with the defensive line? Giving them all the momentum and leverage on the way to pummeling our franchise qb!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I get the frustration a lot of people have with the interior line play. I just think we have several talented and capable players who are still young and can play RG. I don't know what the deal is with Holmes, but he probably played the finest 33 snaps of RG we've seen this season. Hugh Thornton needs refinement, but still has the tools. Xavier Nixon can play RG.

Young guys like Zach Martin, Brandon Linder, Larry Warford, etc., have all been really good at RG. Linder and Warford were both third rounders. There are a few others who mostly play LG, but have done really well (we just saw Bitonio; he was a second rounder).

I think, as we've recently discussed, that going out and signing a veteran to play guard, in particular, isn't a foolproof strategy for improving OL play. We tried it with Thomas, and haven't gotten any return on that investment. And Thomas was really good for us, in his limited time. It's just a tough way to go.

can't Nixon play RT thought he played T more then G
Link to post
Share on other sites

Goodness, you've completely missed my point. A page ago, we were agreeing about the prospects for the line being good going into next season. We've been talking about what the team needs to do in order to improve the line play going forward. It's my opinion that the team doesn't need to run out and try to sign free agent linemen in order to "fix" the line. 

 

My comment about the Pats was related to that line of thought. It wasn't an excuse for the Colts line play so far. It obviously had nothing to do with today's game. I don't know what it could possibly have had to do with Samson Satele (who, by the way, has been playing worse and worse over the past 4-6 weeks). 

 

My comment about the Pats was simply that it's really hard to put together a good offensive line, even for good, well-established teams. You can't just throw a bunch of money at it and expect it to be fixed.

 

 

I hear you , but when you spend a whole lot of money and use draft picks .. what's next ?  Is Grigson evaluating well enough  ? Are these guys being coached up ? Are the young guys improving ? Those are becoming legitimate issues ? Very disappointed with Nixon and Holmes. Thornton been terrible all year. Mewhort .. Harrison ... did they get better as the year went on ? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you , but when you spend a whole lot of money and use draft picks .. what's next ?  Is Grigson evaluating well enough  ? Are these guys being coached up ? Are the young guys improving ? Those are becoming legitimate issues ? Very disappointed with Nixon and Holmes. Thornton been terrible all year. Mewhort .. Harrison ... did they get better as the year went on ? 

 

Mewhort has gotten better all year, particularly in the run game.

 

Thornton hasn't. Now he's hurt. I don't think that means you give up on him. We'll see how next year goes.

 

I'm not disappointed in Nixon at all. But after today, he's clearly better at guard than at tackle. This is the first time we've really seen him at tackle. But again, he's coming off an injury.

 

I don't know what to say about Holmes. Harrison has been thrown to the wolves. These two are about coaching, IMO. 

 

And I mentioned in another thread that I think Joe Gilbert is on the hot seat, but I don't know anything. I just know, like you, that the line isn't where it needs to be. We'll see.

 

What you said earlier is true. Irsay (and Grigson and Pagano, I'm sure) aren't sitting back saying "yeah, it's hard to build an o-line, we'll get 'em next time." I know that. But you can't just throw money at this thing. We've proven that (Satele, Cherilus, Thomas), as have numerous other teams over the past couple of years. We have to do a better job of deploying and developing the young guys, and we have to keep adding young talent. That's how to fix the offensive line. And even when it is clearly getting better, there will still be bad weeks from time to time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mewhort has gotten better all year, particularly in the run game.

 

Thornton hasn't. Now he's hurt. I don't think that means you give up on him. We'll see how next year goes.

 

I'm not disappointed in Nixon at all. But after today, he's clearly better at guard than at tackle. This is the first time we've really seen him at tackle. But again, he's coming off an injury.

 

I don't know what to say about Holmes. Harrison has been thrown to the wolves. These two are about coaching, IMO. 

 

And I mentioned in another thread that I think Joe Gilbert is on the hot seat, but I don't know anything. I just know, like you, that the line isn't where it needs to be. We'll see.

 

What you said earlier is true. Irsay (and Grigson and Pagano, I'm sure) aren't sitting back saying "yeah, it's hard to build an o-line, we'll get 'em next time." I know that. But you can't just throw money at this thing. We've proven that (Satele, Cherilus, Thomas), as have numerous other teams over the past couple of years. We have to do a better job of deploying and developing the young guys, and we have to keep adding young talent. That's how to fix the offensive line. And even when it is clearly getting better, there will still be bad weeks from time to time.

 

 

Yes I agree Mewhort looks like a keeper and I have no problem giving Thornton more chances until we at least have what looks to be an upgrade. The problem with signing free agent OL is at best it appears to be about 50-50 that they pan out. And its 100 % that you'll over pay for them. The answer is get it done. It's probably going to take a combination of better coaching , evaluating and luck. If there is a weak link in the coaching staff , do what needs to be done.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love it if we did that Bravo4460. Keep Antony Castonzo & put every linemen on notice that drastic changes will be unfolding here. A good o-line fixes everything--Your running game, your play action, & it keeps your defense rested & fresh on the sidelines. Best of all, it reduces QB hits & keeps your field general safe in the pocket to slice through opposing secondaries. 

 

Nothing profound here I know; I just know that until we fix the line INDY goes nowhere in the post season. If we wants Championships, this must be remedied immediately. 

Castonzo and Mewhort have both done well

Cherilus has been serviceable

Thornton and Harrison are poop.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I agree Mewhort looks like a keeper and I have no problem giving Thornton more chances until we at least have what looks to be an upgrade. The problem with signing free agent OL is at best it appears to be about 50-50 that they pan out. And its 100 % that you'll over pay for them. The answer is get it done. It's probably going to take a combination of better coaching , evaluating and luck. If there is a weak link in the coaching staff , do what needs to be done.

 

Out of curiosity, what's your beef with Holmes? I'm rewatching the game right now, and as of halftime, he's been good. Not dominant, but active, alert, hasn't made any mistakes... I now believe he got hung out to dry on the first play of the game, but since then, he's been satisfactory, at least.

 

Out of the 60 or so snaps I've really watched from him, he's been promising. Half of them at guard as a fill-in, the other half as a starter at center. 

 

I'm thinking we can either kick Nixon in to guard or get Reitz some bionic limbs and put him at RG, keep Holmes at C, and cross our fingers on Cherilus at RT.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of curiosity, what's your beef with Holmes? I'm rewatching the game right now, and as of halftime, he's been good. Not dominant, but active, alert, hasn't made any mistakes... I now believe he got hung out to dry on the first play of the game, but since then, he's been satisfactory, at least.

 

Out of the 60 or so snaps I've really watched from him, he's been promising. Half of them at guard as a fill-in, the other half as a starter at center. 

 

I'm thinking we can either kick Nixon in to guard or get Reitz some bionic limbs and put him at RG, keep Holmes at C, and cross our fingers on Cherilus at RT.

 

 

I tried to watch him as much as possible and it seemed to me he was getting pushed back pass blocking. WE really didn't run the ball much so I never watched him run blocking. Maybe I didn't see enough plays and was too tough on him ? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This article pretty much sums up everything: http://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/12/22/7439013/chuck-pagano-pretends-like-continuity-matters-on-the-offensive-line

 

"So get this: Chuck Pagano acknowledged both the importance of continuity along the line and acknowledged that it was certainly a reason for the Colts' struggles, yet minutes later wouldn't say who would start at center.  I hope you see the stupidity of that."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...