Ways to fix the OL going forward

[BProland85]

Could it just be a matter of bringing in OL minded front office personnel? I for one would love to see Jeff Saturday brought on in a front office role helping with draft decisions, particularly on the OL, as well as general decisions since he is well respected and was a spokesperson for the NFLPA.

 

Listening to Trent Dilfer on JMB Radio, he said the Colts simply aren't doing a good job of identifying quality players on the OL, and are struggling developing some of them.

[HtownColt]

#FreeHolmes

[LockeDown]

I love Saturday, but we don't really know if he is a good talent evaluator.  He would be great in our FO in some way though.

 

A guy I work with said something simple but profound.  He said if he were building a team, he would start with the defense because if you can keep your opponent's score low, even a crappy offense has a chance.  Then he would build the offensive line because even if you have average or crappy backs, a good Oline can make them pretty good.  Whereas the Colts are building the team with the QB and receivers first, which means we have to outscore other teams and it puts a lot of pressure on us.

[COLTS449]

Sign Iupati and Wisniewski. An O Line of Castanzo Iupati Wisniewski  Mewhort Cherilus would be one of the best in the league. I think Cherilus will return to form next season. Don't forget he's been playing injured and he was a stud last year when healthy. Heck I'd bet T-Rich could run behind that line.

[HtownColt]

I love Saturday, but we don't really know if he is a good talent evaluator. He would be great in our FO in some way though.

A guy I work with said something simple but profound. He said if he were building a team, he would start with the defense because if you can keep your opponent's score low, even a crappy offense has a chance. Then he would build the offensive line because even if you have average or crappy backs, a good Oline can make them pretty good. Whereas the Colts are building the team with the QB and receivers first, which means we have to outscore other teams and it puts a lot of pressure on us.

How is that working out for the Jets?

[Solon]

I'm starting to wonder if we'll ever have a good line. I hate watching Tony Romo waving at his children before throwing the dam ball. Why can't Luck trim his beard and throw?

 

[southwest1]

I love Saturday, but we don't really know if he is a good talent evaluator.  He would be great in our FO in some way though.

 

A guy I work with said something simple but profound.  He said if he were building a team, he would start with the defense because if you can keep your opponent's score low, even a crappy offense has a chance.  Then he would build the offensive line because even if you have average or crappy backs, a good Oline can make them pretty good.  Whereas the Colts are building the team with the QB and receivers first, which means we have to outscore other teams and it puts a lot of pressure on us.

Tony Dungy got fired in Tampa Bay with that exact same mindset & pass rusher Warren Sapp will tell you repeatedly that it puts a lot of pressure on your defense to keep the score low if your QB can't move the ball vertically down the field.

 

So no, I respectfully submit that your friend has the wrong approach for today's game. That defensive approach worked fine in the 70's & 80's not now. And even when the Ravens won their 1st SB in 2000, their game changer was TE Shannon Sharpe. No disrespect to LB Ray Lewis because I do love the guy, but it's the truth. 

[Nesjan3]

Sign Iupati and Wisniewski. An O Line of Castanzo Iupati Wisniewski  Mewhort Cherilus would be one of the best in the league. I think Cherilus will return to form next season. Don't forget he's been playing injured and he was a stud last year when healthy. Heck I'd bet T-Rich could run behind that line.

Both will want big contracts. We need to sign our best Oline man Castanzo to a big deal, then there is Luck TY Allen and Fleener and number of others not so high priority. Going after big name free agents is a bad idea

[jabbanobadda]

I love Saturday, but we don't really know if he is a good talent evaluator.  He would be great in our FO in some way though.

 

A guy I work with said something simple but profound.  He said if he were building a team, he would start with the defense because if you can keep your opponent's score low, even a crappy offense has a chance.  Then he would build the offensive line because even if you have average or crappy backs, a good Oline can make them pretty good.  Whereas the Colts are building the team with the QB and receivers first, which means we have to outscore other teams and it puts a lot of pressure on us.

Shouldn't this line of thought make the Texans AFC South Champs every year?

[crazycolt1]

Both will want big contracts. We need to sign our best Oline man Castanzo to a big deal, then there is Luck TY Allen and Fleener and number of others not so high priority. Going after big name free agents is a bad idea

Luck , Allen and Fleener  will not be free agents till 2016

[jameszeigler834]

Sign Iupati and Wisniewski. An O Line of Castanzo Iupati Wisniewski  Mewhort Cherilus would be one of the best in the league. I think Cherilus will return to form next season. Don't forget he's been playing injured and he was a stud last year when healthy. Heck I'd bet T-Rich could run behind that line.

T-Rich is a bum he needs replaced.

[southwest1]

T-Rich is a bum he needs to be replaced.

No worries James. Just like Darrius Heyward-Bey, GM Grigs will personally escort him to the exit once INDY's season is over. God, I sure hope so anyway. 

 

Didn't Mike Holmgren draft him as a front office executive for the Browns too? Man, what a waste of a draft pick eh? 

[Bravo]

Use every pick we have in this years draft on O-Line. Get a new O-Line coach. There ya go..... That easy! ;)

And seriously, why does everyone have to turn every single thread to a TRich bash party. Yes he has underachieved a ton but poor O line play doesn't help anyone, he doesn't fit our schemes, and so on. Everyone gets it.

[southwest1]

Use every pick we have in this years draft on O-Line. Get a new O-Line coach. There ya go..... That easy! ;)

And seriously, why does everyone have to turn every single thread to a TRich bash party. Yes he has underachieved a ton but poor O line play doesn't help anyone, he doesn't fit our schemes, and so on. Everyone gets it.

I would love it if we did that Bravo4460. Keep Antony Castonzo & put every linemen on notice that drastic changes will be unfolding here. A good o-line fixes everything--Your running game, your play action, & it keeps your defense rested & fresh on the sidelines. Best of all, it reduces QB hits & keeps your field general safe in the pocket to slice through opposing secondaries. 

 

Nothing profound here I know; I just know that until we fix the line INDY goes nowhere in the post season. If we wants Championships, this must be remedied immediately. 

[jabbanobadda]

I think T-Rich is being brought up in an Oline thread is justified...maybe?  My eye test says our oli e isn't as bad as we think when it comes to run blocking based on the results of all rbs not named trich...but at the same time...the oline is not doing g Luck any favors, correct?  So, we need t rich and his above average pass protection  to help us not get Luck killed.  What to do...what to do...

[dw49]

Have it figured out. John goes to RT and we sign a free agent guard to pay the right side. O line fixed.

[Bravo]

I would love it if we did that Bravo4460. Keep Antony Castonzo & put every linemen on notice that drastic changes will be unfolding here. A good o-line fixes everything--Your running game, your play action, & it keeps your defense rested & fresh on the sidelines. Best of all, it reduces QB hits & keeps your field general safe in the pocket to slice through opposing secondaries.

Nothing profound here I know; I just know that until we fix the line INDY goes nowhere in the post season. If we wants Championships, this must be remedied immediately.

I actually do think it would help. Obviously I was being a little over dramatic but even using 3 picks on the O-Line and getting a new O-line coach would mix things up a bit!

[Bravo]

I think T-Rich is being brought up in an Oline thread is justified...maybe? My eye test says our oli e isn't as bad as we think when it comes to run blocking based on the results of all rbs not named trich...but at the same time...the oline is not doing g Luck any favors, correct? So, we need t rich and his above average pass protection to help us not get Luck killed. What to do...what to do...

Well Bradshaw broke a couple runs but not much. His stats were actually right around TRich in the run game before who's injury... Recieving game though is a different story. Bradshaw was a beast in recieving out of the backfield.

But seriously. A great O line can make a below average running back look great! It all starts upfront. Maybe we make it sound worse than it is but when your franchise QB is getting beat up and your running backs have trouble with getting hit in the backfield is is for sure a large problem that continuously needs addressed. We all can hope that this offseason we see something change on the offensive line for the better.

[Tracy Denton]

Could it just be a matter of bringing in OL minded front office personnel? I for one would love to see Jeff Saturday brought on in a front office role helping with draft decisions, particularly on the OL, as well as general decisions since he is well respected and was a spokesperson for the NFLPA.

 

Listening to Trent Dilfer on JMB Radio, he said the Colts simply aren't doing a good job of identifying quality players on the OL, and are struggling developing some of them.

Our GM was an O-lineman in the NFL, Saturday is already in the FO(not sure what role) and take what Dilfer says with a grain of salt. I think we have some talent but injuries and inexperiance is what the problem is.

[Dark Superman]

If we are ever going to make a legit ament gor for a SB we seriously need to improve the OL.

[Gavin]

There is not one thing that will fix this O Line, Going to take a few things from what I see

 

1.QUIT double teaming on a ton of our run blocks(I believe some Linebackers have picked up on this that we have went against simply because I have noticed there have been several that have just stayed disciplined, read the play and reacted), All that does is allow a Linebacker to come free and stop the ball carrier for minimal gain , Instead get our Guards up to the 2nd level to create better running lanes....TE's to

 

2.Playcalling in terms of running the ball has been simply bad, We are not taking advantage of a teams weaknesses........Example...vs the Cowboys.....Selvie...He likes to get up field, Does not really care to play the run...Mincey is the same way...He aint there to play the run....and if he is then he sure as hell aint playing it.  

 

3.When you have a Back running well DONT pull him out or suddenly quit on the run...This has been the biggest problem the last few weeks overall.....Cant run the ball if you don't practice running the ball

 

4.More variety in blocking schemes would help, I know Joe Gilbert has more run blocking schemes he has taught then what we usually use, The majority of our blocking consists of down hil Man blocking, double team blocking, Pulling an O Lineman....we need more of getting our O Linemen to the 2nd level up on a Linebacker

 

5.Dont use Coby as in line blocker at all....especially running behind him(Bring in Doyle for this)....Instead use his mobility to our advantage...Get him up on a Linebacker...Using him to block a D Lineman aint gonna work now...aint gonna work 10 years from now.....The man just aint strong enough and does not have that aggressive demeanor ya need...and that's alright

[jskinnz]

I love Saturday, but we don't really know if he is a good talent evaluator.  He would be great in our FO in some way though.

 

A guy I work with said something simple but profound.  He said if he were building a team, he would start with the defense because if you can keep your opponent's score low, even a crappy offense has a chance.  Then he would build the offensive line because even if you have average or crappy backs, a good Oline can make them pretty good.  Whereas the Colts are building the team with the QB and receivers first, which means we have to outscore other teams and it puts a lot of pressure on us.

 

Your buddy's future as a GM in the league would be short-lived.  There is no more important position in all of sports than an NFL qb.  If you don't have a franchise QB you are looking for one.  The Colts, with this current roster, are a 4-5 win team without Luck.  He is the reason they win and the reason they have won as they have since 2012 and the reason they have a chance in the playoffs.  Look at the qb's who have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl since 2003 - with the exception of Flacco in 2012, it has either been Brady, Manning, or Big Ben.  Now those teams had other strengths but the common denominator is the elite QB.

 

In short, the way the Colts are building their team is fine and for the most part has worked.  Maybe some of their FA and draft evaluations have not worked out like we or they would have wanted but the process itself is not flawed.  Houston has a good D but they would kill for a QB.  Same with the Bills - if they get to January, no one will really take them seriously as a threat because of one thing - Orton is their QB.

[Smonroe]

There is not one thing that will fix this O Line, Going to take a few things from what I see

 

1.QUIT double teaming on a ton of our run blocks(I believe some Linebackers have picked up on this that we have went against simply because I have noticed there have been several that have just stayed disciplined, read the play and reacted), All that does is allow a Linebacker to come free and stop the ball carrier for minimal gain , Instead get our Guards up to the 2nd level to create better running lanes....TE's to

 

2.Playcalling in terms of running the ball has been simply bad, We are not taking advantage of a teams weaknesses........Example...vs the Cowboys.....Selvie...He likes to get up field, Does not really care to play the run...Mincey is the same way...He aint there to play the run....and if he is then he sure as hell aint playing it.  

 

3.When you have a Back running well DONT pull him out or suddenly quit on the run...This has been the biggest problem the last few weeks overall.....Cant run the ball if you don't practice running the ball

 

4.More variety in blocking schemes would help, I know Joe Gilbert has more run blocking schemes he has taught then what we usually use, The majority of our blocking consists of down hil Man blocking, double team blocking, Pulling an O Lineman....we need more of getting our O Linemen to the 2nd level up on a Linebacker

 

5.Dont use Coby as in line blocker at all....especially running behind him(Bring in Doyle for this)....Instead use his mobility to our advantage...Get him up on a Linebacker...Using him to block a D Lineman aint gonna work now...aint gonna work 10 years from now.....The man just aint strong enough and does not have that aggressive demeanor ya need...and that's alright

Well said. Can you get this to Grigs?

I'm no line expert but it certainly seems like there are teams out there doing more with less or equal talent. Maybe they just know how to use it better.

[SOMDColtsfan]

I love Saturday, but we don't really know if he is a good talent evaluator.  He would be great in our FO in some way though.

 

A guy I work with said something simple but profound.  He said if he were building a team, he would start with the defense because if you can keep your opponent's score low, even a crappy offense has a chance.  Then he would build the offensive line because even if you have average or crappy backs, a good Oline can make them pretty good.  Whereas the Colts are building the team with the QB and receivers first, which means we have to outscore other teams and it puts a lot of pressure on us.

I agree with this. Midway through Andrew Lucks rookie year I wrote a blog titled "Deja Vu". New GM, new HC, OC and DC with new 3-4 mindset. New starting QB. Wholesale changes across the board. But exact same team scenario. Great QB with good WR`s and TE`s and the rest go downhill from there. Deja Vu!

[Superman]

What if guys like Holmes, Thornton, Nixon, Mewhort and Harrison all continue to develop and get better, stay healthy, and play a significant role next season?

[dw49]

What if guys like Holmes, Thornton, Nixon, Mewhort and Harrison all continue to develop and get better, stay healthy, and play a significant role next season?

 

 

We also have plenty of cap room to sign a RG or RT. I really think , barring injury , it will be pretty good next year.

[LockeDown]

Shouldn't this line of thought make the Texans AFC South Champs every year?

The Texans won our division a few years ago if you remember and they did NOT have a world class QB. 

[LockeDown]

Tony Dungy got fired in Tampa Bay with that exact same mindset & pass rusher Warren Sapp will tell you repeatedly that it puts a lot of pressure on your defense to keep the score low if your QB can't move the ball vertically down the field.

 

So no, I respectfully submit that your friend has the wrong approach for today's game. That defensive approach worked fine in the 70's & 80's not now. And even when the Ravens won their 1st SB in 2000, their game changer was TE Shannon Sharpe. No disrespect to LB Ray Lewis because I do love the guy, but it's the truth. 

 

 

Tony Dungy's team won the Super Bowl the next year.  He built that team the right way.  All it needed was tweaking and Gruden did that.

[LockeDown]

How is that working out for the Jets?

 

You picked the wrong team for your example.  However, the Ravens, Steelers, and Giants all subscribe to this and they have won 6 Super Bowls the past decade.  None of those QBs are ever put in the top 5 elite QBs in the league.

[Superman]

We also have plenty of cap room to sign a RG or RT. I really think , barring injury , it will be pretty good next year.

 

As do I.

 

I don't think we'll sign a RT. I think there's a better chance of a guard, but I don't think those chances are very high, either. Maybe another low-level vet, Phil Costa style. I can see drafting a tackle, maybe a guard. I think the major improvement for the offensive line will come from the young players getting better, and continuing to add young talent via the draft and collegiate free agency.

[masterlock]

Both will want big contracts. We need to sign our best Oline man Castanzo to a big deal, then there is Luck TY Allen and Fleener and number of others not so high priority. Going after big name free agents is a bad idea

Castanzo won't get a truly "big" deal, since he's not elite. But his pay will go up, that's for sure.

[dw49]

As do I.

 

I don't think we'll sign a RT. I think there's a better chance of a guard, but I don't think those chances are very high, either. Maybe another low-level vet, Phil Costa style. I can see drafting a tackle, maybe a guard. I think the major improvement for the offensive line will come from the young players getting better, and continuing to add young talent via the draft and collegiate free agency

 

 

I think a RT is unlikely also as we have the Cherlius contract to deal with for at least one more year. I think it is possible that Jim Irsay just says bring in a RG to protect his franchise. I really tend to think he's seen enough of this. But pure conjecture on my part.

[Jdubu]

Our GM was an O-lineman in the NFL, Saturday is already in the FO(not sure what role) and take what Dilfer says with a grain of salt. I think we have some talent but injuries and inexperiance is what the problem is.

Dilfer comments aside, it's evident either we are not identifying quality talent on the oline or the oline coach is not coaching them very well. One of the two is the issue here. It appeared we had quality talent on paper but for whatever reason, that oline has t meshed and injuries are a small part of that but even when fully healthy, the line hasn't looked stout. Changes are needed

[Nadine]

Could it just be a matter of bringing in OL minded front office personnel? I for one would love to see Jeff Saturday brought on in a front office role helping with draft decisions, particularly on the OL, as well as general decisions since he is well respected and was a spokesperson for the NFLPA.

 

Listening to Trent Dilfer on JMB Radio, he said the Colts simply aren't doing a good job of identifying quality players on the OL, and are struggling developing some of them.

Jeff Saturday had a job and an office here.

He left when ESPN called and it looks like he's doing well there

[NewColtsFan]

So.....   someone thinks it would be helpful if we had a front office type with an OL background?

 

May I introduce that person to Ryan Grigson?    He played OL in the NFL.

 

Otherwise,  I don't know what to tell you.....

[BlueCollarColts]

Get another guard and let Harrison develop.

[Superman]

I think a RT is unlikely also as we have the Cherlius contract to deal with for at least one more year. I think it is possible that Jim Irsay just says bring in a RG to protect his franchise. I really tend to think he's seen enough of this. But pure conjecture on my part.

 

Yeah, I get the frustration a lot of people have with the interior line play. I just think we have several talented and capable players who are still young and can play RG. I don't know what the deal is with Holmes, but he probably played the finest 33 snaps of RG we've seen this season. Hugh Thornton needs refinement, but still has the tools. Xavier Nixon can play RG. 

 

Young guys like Zach Martin, Brandon Linder, Larry Warford, etc., have all been really good at RG. Linder and Warford were both third rounders. There are a few others who mostly play LG, but have done really well (we just saw Bitonio; he was a second rounder). 

 

I think, as we've recently discussed, that going out and signing a veteran to play guard, in particular, isn't a foolproof strategy for improving OL play. We tried it with Thomas, and haven't gotten any return on that investment. And Thomas was really good for us, in his limited time. It's just a tough way to go.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Get another guard and let Harrison develop.

this may be as good as our young guys will ever be. they may have already developed, could be, what we see, is what we have

[BlueCollarColts]

this may be as good as our young guys will ever be. they may have already developed, could be, what we see, is what we have

What? A rookie has developed as far as he can go?

[Larry Horseman]

this may be as good as our young guys will ever be. they may have already developed, could be, what we see, is what we have

So you think most people are as good at their jobs in year 1 as year 2, 3, or 4? There is young talent on this roster. Gavin had some nice points above about other issues that are causing problems.

Overall, I don't think the OL is as bad as everyone thinks. YPC is fine. Luck holds the ball a long time.